The Wire: The Rewatch... and all the pieces matter.

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Chef Boyardeez Nuts: Sep 9, 2011; The more you kick against the pricks, the more you suffer.

Zombie Raptor posted:

A big part of me wishes they had just made Jimmy an immigrant from the UK. Usually it's Idris's accent (as has been mentioned before) in things like this that I cannot ignore, but West steals the show in terms of bad accents for at least season one. I will pay more attention to this as I progress.

Of course, then the accent would have been even more distracting.

And he couldn't have done his "british accent" in season 2, which justifies every other line he flubbed.

# ? Dec 27, 2012 23:35

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# ? Mar 18, 2025 03:57

Kevyn: Mar 5, 2003; Please leave the room if this will affect you.

DarkCrawler posted:

Is it ever inferred in the series that he's a Baltimore native?

Doesn't he point out the factory where his father worked at the beginning of season 2?

# ? Dec 27, 2012 23:55

3spades: Mar 20, 2003; 37! My girlfriend sucked 37 dicks!

Customer: In a row?

Kevyn posted:

Doesn't he point out the factory where his father worked at the beginning of season 2?

He does and I think everyone is supposed to be a native unless otherwise explained like Brother Mouzone being from from NY.

# ? Dec 28, 2012 01:14

CAPS LOCK BROKEN: Feb 1, 2006; by Fluffdaddy

Funny story about the guy who played Sergei on the Wire. He is a huge teabagger who thinks Obama is out to take his guns and ship whites off to camps. I used to post on Facebook fan page for the Wire a lot and he added a bunch of regulars on Facebook. Around the time of the 2010 elections the crazy came out and he eventually blocked me on FB for trolling his terrible wall posts.

# ? Dec 28, 2012 01:22

Jerusalem: May 20, 2004; Would you be my new best friends?

"Does he have white face? Does he have white hands? No? Then he is not my President."

Goddammit, Boris, why'd you have to be a lunatic. :smith:

# ? Dec 28, 2012 01:51

chesh: Apr 19, 2004; That was terrible.

Sometimes I like to hit David Simon's blog. The original post here isn't so awesome (though he has lots of those), but I especially like the second comment, where he gets in an absolutely awesome argument with "Derek." Well worth a read.

# ? Dec 28, 2012 02:17

Jerusalem: May 20, 2004; Would you be my new best friends?

Goddamn do I love it when David Simon rips somebody a new one. :allears:

# ? Dec 28, 2012 02:26

chesh: Apr 19, 2004; That was terrible.

Jerusalem posted:

Goddamn do I love it when David Simon rips somebody a new one.

I was hoping someone else would love it as much as me! I spend all my non-TVIV time in D&D, and that is hands down one of the best internet argument posts ever. Full of facts and snark like the best of them.

"You couldn�t be more wrong if you tried. And apparently, you are, indeed, trying."

:drat:

kaworu posted:

I dunno, I think viewing Kenard (or anyone) in anything resembling a dichotomy of good/evil is doing a disservice to both David Simon and the show itself. Kenard is a walking metaphor for a specific aspect of institutional decay in America, like many characters on the show both major and minor. He is one particular example of the many consequences that come from an inner-city school institution that is rotted out to the very core, and in some ways a particularly prescient example given recent events in the news. The Wire has to have reached some sort of unofficial record when it comes to being uncannily prophetic about the years that immediately followed it's ending.

Also, I recently watched this interview that David Simon did on Bill Moyers back in like, 2008:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qulcqNMHVic

It's pretty fantastic stuff, undoubtedly old content for some of the folks in this thread but for those of us who missed it before, this is a REAL treat. One of those things where I clicked on it and didn't really have the time to watch the whole thing and was in the middle of a bunch of work... And 45 minutes later I had watched the whole thing and was really freaking sad there wasn't more.

Oh, thank you for this! It led me to this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRt46W3k-qw

Which was amazing and insightful.

I wish I could marry his brain. :allears:

chesh fucked around with this message at 04:07 on Dec 28, 2012

# ? Dec 28, 2012 03:59

kylejack: Feb 28, 2006; I'M AN INSUFFERABLE PEDANTIC POMPOUS RACIST TROLL WHO BELIEVES VACCINES CAUSE AUTISM. I SUFFER FROM TERMINAL WHITE GUILT. PLEASE EXPOSE MY LIES OR BETTER YET JUST IGNORE ME!

chesh posted:

Sometimes I like to hit David Simon's blog. The original post here isn't so awesome (though he has lots of those), but I especially like the second comment, where he gets in an absolutely awesome argument with "Derek." Well worth a read.

I don't know why he bothered to continue when the guy said mental illness doesn't exist.

# ? Dec 28, 2012 04:29

Jerusalem: May 20, 2004; Would you be my new best friends?

It has been said before, but anybody who hasn't read The Corner and Homicide: A Year In The Killing Streets owes it to themselves to do so. In The Corner in particular, Simon will reach points where he somewhat abandons the narrative/"characters" (it is a non-fiction account of real people after all) in order to go on lengthy asides/tirades about the complete failure of various elements of Government/society, puncture holes in many "common sense" solutions/beliefs and remind everybody just how hosed up things are.

His bit in the blog post about South Africa reminded me of probably my absolute favorite section from The Corner:

David Simon posted:

A war waged openly on the underclass would necessitate some self-inflicted scars, some damage to the collective soul of whatever kind of nation we think we are. And if we can't stomach that kind of horror show, perhaps the only real alternative is to keep pretending, to keep telling ourselves that it's only a matter of a stronger law or a better mousetrap or this year's model of poo poo-spinning politician swearing that he's the one to really get tough on crime.

So we ignore these dying neighborhoods, or run from them if they creep too close. In the end we know we can always cash in our chips, climb to the embassy roof and ride that last Huey to suburbia or some well-policed yuppie enclave in the best quadrants of our cities. We've got a right to walk away because it's our world; hell, we've got the tax returns to prove it.

But how far can we run from New York and Detroit, from Atlanta and Newark, from West Baltimore and East St. Louis? How many county lines must we cross before the damned of these cities will no longer follow? How many private security guards can we hire? How many motion sensors do we need? This is different, this war, and instinctively we know that retreat from it can never be total. These people that we're ready to abandon, they are not an alien foe - their tribe is our own. And these battlefields are not half a world away in places easily forgotten. This is us, America, at war with ourselves. In some weird way, this is our own manifest destiny coming back to bite us on the rear end, the pure-pedigreed descendant of all those God-fearing forefathers plunging into the wilderness, stripping the land, looking to feed off their new world, killing and being killed, opening up the east and marching west. Now, it's a twisted replay of that devouring, except that this time, we're the fodder.

We know this deep down; we read the newspapers, we watch the television. We have and they have not, and therefore, they need us. They need us so badly that they'll cross the lines and dodge the rent-a-cops and climb any wall we build. And in the end, there is no real surprise when you hear that your neighbor's car is gone. Or that the counter guy at the local 7-Eleven got aced in a robbery last night. Or that someone you work with pulled up to the pumps at the Route 32 Exxon and got carjacked. There should be no surprise when you come to that hideous moment for which you've spent a lifetime preparing, when you or someone you love walks down the wrong block, or into the wrong parking garage. In an instant, the illusions are obliterated and the reckoning - their reckoning - is yours as well.

Thirty years gone and now the drug corner is the center of its own culture. On Fayette Street, the drugs are no longer what they sell or use, but who they are. We may have begun by fighting a war on drugs, but now we're beating down those who use them. And along Fayette Street, the enemy is everywhere, so that what began as a wrongheaded tactical mission has been transformed into slow-motion civil war. If we never seriously contemplate alternatives, if we forever see the order of battle in terms of arrests and prisons and lawyers, then perhaps we deserve three more decades of failure.

In the end, we'll blame them, we always do.

And why the hell not? They've ignored our warning and sanctions, they've taken our check-day bribe and done precious little with it, they've turned our city streets into drug bazaars. Why shouldn't they take the blame?

If it was us, if it was our lonesome rear end shuffling past the corner of Monroe and Fayette every day, we'd get out, wouldn't we? We'd endure. Succeed. Thrive. No matter what, no matter how, we'd find the loving exit.

If it was our fathers firing dope and our mothers smoking coke, we'd pull ourselves past it. We'd raise ourselves, discipline ourselves, teach ourselves the essentials of self-denial and delayed gratification that no one in our universe ever demonstrated. And if home was the rear room of some rancid, three-story shooting gallery, we'd rise about that too. We'd shuffle up the stairs past nodding fiends and sullen dealers, shut the bedroom door, turn off the television, and do our schoolwork. Algebra amid the stench of burning rock; American history between police raids. And if there was no food on the table, we're certain we could deal with that. We'd lie about our age to cut taters and spill grease and sling fries at the sub shop for five-and-change-an-hour, walking every day past the corner where friends are making our daily wage in ten minutes.

No matter. We'd persevere, wouldn't we? We'd work that job by night and go to class by day, by some miracle squeezing a quality education from the disaster that is the Baltimore school system. We'd do all the work, we'd pay whatever the price. And when all the other children are out in the street, learning the corner world, priming themselves for the only life they've ever known, we'd be holed up in some shithole of a rowhouse with our textbooks and yellow highlighter, cramming for finals. Come payday, we wouldn't blow that minimum-wage check on Nikes, or Fila sweat suits, or Friday night movies at Harbor Park with the neighborhood girls. No loving way, brother, because we pulled self-esteem out of a dark hole somewhere and damned if our every desire isn't absolutely in check. We don't need to buy any status; no, we can save every last dollar, or invest it, maybe. And in the end, we know, we'll head off to our college years shining like a new dime, swearing never to set foot on West Fayette Street again.

That's the myth of it, the required lie that allows us to render our judgments. Parasites, criminals, dope fiends, dope peddlers, whores - when we can ride past them at Fayette and Monroe, car doors locked, our field of vision cautiously restricted to the road ahead, then the long journey into darkness is underway. Pale-skinned hillbillies and hard faced yos, toothless white trash and gold-front gangsters - when we can glide on and feel only fear, we're well on the way. And if, after a time, we can glimpse the spectacle of the corner and manage nothing beyond loathing and contempt, then we've arrived at last at that naked place where a man finally sees the sense in stretching razor wire and building barracks and directing cattle cards into the compound.

It's a reckoning of another kind, perhaps, and one that becomes a possibility only through the arrogance and certainty that so easily accompanies a well-planned and well-tended life. We know ourselves; from what we value most, we grant ourselves the illusion that it's not chance and circumstance, that opportunity itself isn't the defining issue. We want the high ground; we want our own worth to be acknowledged. Morality, intelligence, values - we want those things measured and counted. We want it to be about Us.

Yes, if we were down there, if we were the damned of the American cities, we would not fail. We would rise above the corner. And when we tell ourselves such things, we unthinkingly assume that we would be consigned to places like Fayette Street fully equipped, with all the graces, talents and training that we now possess. Our parents would still be our parents, our teachers still our teachers, our broker still our broker. Amid the stench of so much defeat and despair, we would kick fate in the teeth and claim our deserved victory. We would escape to live the life we were supposed to live, the life we are living now. We would be saved, and as it always is in matters of salvation, we know this as a matter of perfect, pristine, faith.

Why? The truth is plain:

We were not born to be niggers.

Seriously, buy these books and read them.

Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 05:06 on Dec 28, 2012

# ? Dec 28, 2012 05:00

chesh: Apr 19, 2004; That was terrible.

Jerusalem posted:

It has been said before, but anybody who hasn't read The Corner and Homicide: A Year In The Killing Streets owes it to themselves to do so. In The Corner in particular, Simon will reach points where he somewhat abandons the narrative/"characters" (it is a non-fiction account of real people after all) in order to go on lengthy asides/tirades about the complete failure of various elements of Government/society, puncture holes in many "common sense" solutions/beliefs and remind everybody just how hosed up things are.

His bit in the blog post about South Africa reminded me of probably my absolute favorite section from The Corner:

Seriously, buy these books and read them.

Holy goddamn hell. I read Homicide this year, and it was the first book in probably 15 years where I was underlying phrases and paragraphs because I knew -- I KNEW -- I would revisit and reread this book in the coming years.

I'll pick up The Corner in early January, I promise.

# ? Dec 28, 2012 05:12

grading essays nude: Oct 24, 2009; so why dont we
put him into a canan
and shoot him into the trolls base where
ever it is and let him kill all of them. its
so perfect that it can't go wrong.

i think its the best plan i
have ever heard in my life

What makes The Corner even more depressing now is the fact DeAndre - who played Brother Mouzone's assistant Lamar - never got past his old demons, despite the opportunities Simon gave him over the years. He recently died of a drug overdose while waiting to be arrested over a pharmacy robbery in Baltimore. Simon wrote a wonderful obituary about it and put the smack down on a commenter suggesting Simon had over-romanticized DeAndre's life and overlooked his flaws and mistakes. The gist of it was, yes this guy made mistakes, but by turning that fact into a justification to ignore his death and devalue his life you're making the same mistake everyone fighting the War on Drugs has made.

http://davidsimon.com/deandre-mccullough-1977-2012/

# ? Dec 28, 2012 05:33

the black husserl: Feb 25, 2005

I still can't quite believe DeAndre as Lamar. He was just another excellent, very human minor character in the show until I read The Corner and realized the Wire had nothing on these people's real lives.

# ? Dec 28, 2012 06:36

Crumbletron: Jul 21, 2006; IT'S YOUR BOY JESUS, MANE

I got the boxset for Christmas and I've re-restarted watching with my parents. I think in episode 5 or 6 is when String, Avon and co. visit the Pit to pay Dee and Wallace for pointing out Brandon at Greek's. As they're walking into the Pit, it's probably one of the few times any non-diegetic music plays on the show. Found it kind of interesting. Season 1 seems to have the most of these elements that they eventually cut out in the later seasons, to my recollection.

# ? Dec 30, 2012 23:46

escape artist: Sep 24, 2005; Slow train coming

the black husserl posted:

I still can't quite believe DeAndre as Lamar. He was just another excellent, very human minor character in the show until I read The Corner and realized the Wire had nothing on these people's real lives.

Nice Boots avatar.

Parachute Underwear posted:

As they're walking into the Pit, it's probably one of the few times any non-diegetic music plays on the show. Found it kind of interesting.

Yeah, this is a really jarring moment.

# ? Dec 30, 2012 23:57

Party Plane Jones: Jul 1, 2007; by Reene; Fun Shoe

Parachute Underwear posted:

I got the boxset for Christmas and I've re-restarted watching with my parents.

Did they fix the issues with the set or is it still as bad as the one I got? There wasn't holders for the discs so much as slots poorly held together with hot glue.

# ? Dec 31, 2012 10:41

Chamberk: Jan 11, 2004; when there is nothing left to burn you have to set yourself on fire

I ended up having to put all my Wire discs in a CD wallet so they wouldn't get scratched up on the boxset.

I really like The Wire, but I am slow as gently caress while watching it. I think I started back in 2008, and as 2012 ends I'm just now getting through season 4. I think I average about a season a year - I'll watch it in binges for a while, then leave it alone for months at a time.

# ? Dec 31, 2012 17:58

Crumbletron: Jul 21, 2006; IT'S YOUR BOY JESUS, MANE

Party Plane Jones posted:

Did they fix the issues with the set or is it still as bad as the one I got? There wasn't holders for the discs so much as slots poorly held together with hot glue.

They're still slip-in slots. They don't seem particularly flimsy, but I haven't played around with them much.

# ? Dec 31, 2012 18:13

Chamberk: Jan 11, 2004; when there is nothing left to burn you have to set yourself on fire

Also, one quick thing - in the first post Escape Artist says that the pit kids call the cops the "knockos" - I thought it was "narcos", like "narcotics officer." Any meaning behind 'knockos'?

# ? Jan 1, 2013 03:49

escape artist: Sep 24, 2005; Slow train coming

Subtitles say Knocko. It is derived from Narco. As in Narcotics officer. I've never known if it had anything to do with knock vs. no-knock warrants.

# ? Jan 1, 2013 03:58

MC Fruit Stripe: Nov 26, 2002; around and around we go

I thought it was narcos, too, but yes, it is knockos.

# ? Jan 1, 2013 03:59

escape artist: Sep 24, 2005; Slow train coming

It is also spelled knocko in The Corner.

# ? Jan 1, 2013 04:00

Sarkozymandias: May 25, 2010; THAT'S SYOUS D'RAVEN

Writing on this show is incredibly tight. It's amazing how every episode has its own theme while fitting into a larger whole.

# ? Jan 1, 2013 10:43

friendo55: Jun 28, 2008

Jerusalem posted:

It has been said before, but anybody who hasn't read The Corner and Homicide: A Year In The Killing Streets owes it to themselves to do so. In The Corner in particular, Simon will reach points where he somewhat abandons the narrative/"characters" (it is a non-fiction account of real people after all) in order to go on lengthy asides/tirades about the complete failure of various elements of Government/society, puncture holes in many "common sense" solutions/beliefs and remind everybody just how hosed up things are.

His bit in the blog post about South Africa reminded me of probably my absolute favorite section from The Corner:

Seriously, buy these books and read them.

I shall take your recommendation and am ordering right now.
This also reminds me that I still need to watch The Corner!
I'll say its a good way to start 2013.
Which should I do first - read or watch?

# ? Jan 1, 2013 18:05

3spades: Mar 20, 2003; 37! My girlfriend sucked 37 dicks!

Customer: In a row?

escape artist posted:

I've never known if it had anything to do with knock vs. no-knock warrants.

I doubt the project yo's know of anything so sophisticated. It's just taking a legit word and making it theirs, see: hamsterdam.

# ? Jan 1, 2013 18:09

CaptainHollywood: Feb 29, 2008; I am an awesome guy and I love to make out during shitty Hollywood horror movies. I am a trendwhore!

"This.... is bullshit!" - The moment Daniels solidified himself as a badass.

# ? Jan 1, 2013 20:39

Jerusalem: May 20, 2004; Would you be my new best friends?

friendo55 posted:

I shall take your recommendation and am ordering right now.
This also reminds me that I still need to watch The Corner!
I'll say its a good way to start 2013.
Which should I do first - read or watch?

That reminds me that I was gifted The Corner (the DVD) recently and I still need to watch it. I'd say to read the book first but if you have to wait for that to arrive, I guess watch the show first.

# ? Jan 1, 2013 23:18

Jono C: Mar 28, 2007; Adam is a wonderful example of how a player should go about his business in the NRL

I would recommend reading Homicide and The Corner first (and in that order), and then watching The Corner. I've always been a "book was better than the movie/tv show" type though.

I still find The Corner especially depressing. All of those kids are now dead or in jail? That poo poo ain't right.

# ? Jan 1, 2013 23:49

Trap Star: Jul 21, 2010

E the Shaggy posted:

Speaking of minor characters re-emerging later on in the series, there's a bearded redhead dock worker who appears as one of the homeless later on in season 5. Re-establishing how crucial Frank was to the survivability of the docks themselves. When he died, it all went to pot.

There's another bearded dock worker who appears as a homeless man under the bridge/by the tracks in season 5. I can't be bothered to go check up on his name but it was the overweight guy who gives the port cops the middle finger in the season 2 ending montage.

# ? Jan 2, 2013 00:22

Sarkozymandias: May 25, 2010; THAT'S SYOUS D'RAVEN

Well Ziggy I knew you were a stupid motherfucker but drat.

# ? Jan 2, 2013 01:44

Soupisgood: Dec 5, 2012

Trap Star posted:

There's another bearded dock worker who appears as a homeless man under the bridge/by the tracks in season 5. I can't be bothered to go check up on his name but it was the overweight guy who gives the port cops the middle finger in the season 2 ending montage.

Johnny 50

# ? Jan 2, 2013 02:56

nzspambot: Mar 26, 2010

thanks to this thread I re-watched the 5 seasons over my break off work.

I still don't like Season 5 :/

# ? Jan 3, 2013 09:50

Jerusalem: May 20, 2004; Would you be my new best friends?

Sarkozymandias posted:

Well Ziggy I knew you were a stupid motherfucker but drat.

Hahaha, I'm afraid you're going to have to be a little more specific about exactly which time Ziggy being a stupid motherfucker you're talking about :laugh:

# ? Jan 3, 2013 11:32

Varicelli: Jan 24, 2009

Fat Albert and the Cosby Kids aka The Wire for Children

# ? Jan 3, 2013 16:10

Crumbletron: Jul 21, 2006; IT'S YOUR BOY JESUS, MANE

Christ, I forgot how much of a piece of poo poo Commissioner Warren Frazier makes himself look like after the busts. McNulty pretty much voices what everyone's thinking that whole episode.

# ? Jan 4, 2013 04:16

BrBa: Oct 12, 2012

I'm rewatching this too and up to The Pager. I'm probably alone on this, but I don't really like the 'gently caress gently caress gently caress' scene. It seems too affected for a show that generally has more natural-sounding dialogue. It doesn't fit with the rest.

On a positive note, I'd forgotten how good the scene where Avon and D visit their old relative in the hospital is.

'Be a little slow, be a little late...'

# ? Jan 5, 2013 04:28

escape artist: Sep 24, 2005; Slow train coming

BrBa posted:

I'm rewatching this too and up to The Pager. I'm probably alone on this, but I don't really like the 'gently caress gently caress gently caress' scene. It seems too affected for a show that generally has more natural-sounding dialogue. It doesn't fit with the rest.

On a positive note, I'd forgotten how good the scene where Avon and D visit their old relative in the hospital is.

'Be a little slow, be a little late...'

Yeah, that's a great one. "Does he scare you? He scares me." - Avon

# ? Jan 5, 2013 04:48

chesh: Apr 19, 2004; That was terrible.

escape artist posted:

Yeah, that's a great one. "Does he scare you? He scares me." - Avon

Are you gonna keep doing your recaps? I've been missing them.

I wish I hadn't started a rewatch right before leaving home for two weeks of travel.

# ? Jan 5, 2013 07:47

escape artist: Sep 24, 2005; Slow train coming

chesh posted:

Are you gonna keep doing your recaps? I've been missing them.

I wish I hadn't started a rewatch right before leaving home for two weeks of travel.

Yes and I will do them at a faster pace, too. The holidays + myself being sick, and my dog being deathly sick needing 'round the clock care, has sort of postponed it. I was up 36 hours tending to him-- just holding him to try and make him comfortable. He's recovering, finally, though. But I plan to do a recap for all 60 episodes. Don't you worry

(If I do that, I'm thinking about basically turning it into a blog, too. Would that be worth it? Maybe Google AdSense could throw a few dimes to a crippled man in desperate need. I could also pair it with my cinema review blog.)

escape artist fucked around with this message at 13:34 on Jan 5, 2013

# ? Jan 5, 2013 13:31

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# ? Mar 18, 2025 03:57

Ryu no Ikari: Jul 25, 2004; I'm not saying it's bad, or anything. I like Dr. Doom, and I like Jesus.

escape artist posted:

Subtitles say Knocko. It is derived from Narco. As in Narcotics officer. I've never known if it had anything to do with knock vs. no-knock warrants.

As a high school teacher in a corner of Baltimore that is just like the Wire, i can tell you that this has evolved into "knockers" and is related to the way cops are perceived to pound on doors. Kids who weren't my students would regularly ask me if I was a knocker because their paranoid hatred of police runs so deep that they genuinely believed it was likely that i was an undercover posing as a teacher. I did once ask a class to explain the term and they're the ones that demonstrated the knocking by pounding loudly on their desks and yelling things like "Open this motherfucking door!"

Almost all of my kids, even the good ones, had stories of random police harrassment. Sad poo poo.

# ? Jan 5, 2013 17:59

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > TV IV > The Wire: The Rewatch... and all the pieces matter.

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