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AceRimmer
Mar 18, 2009


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Marenghi
Oct 16, 2008


Leal posted:

Hell part of the lore is that they discovered hyper efficient power sources, its why plutonium cells exist. Looking at the timeline page

Kevin himself entered the thread on the removal of solar power laser turrets. He was answering a question on if CBMs will be removed for being unrealistic.
His answer was that CBMs are planned to have their lore changed to being alien tech.

All the scifi stuff they like will be alien tech, everything they don't like will be removed for "realism".

Tin Tim
Jun 4, 2012

Live by the pun - Die by the pun


Xand_Man posted:

I think sometimes a secubot spawns inside the bank too. Had a real fun run where I got dropped without warning because I round a corner into a security bot. Reload, run their ammo dry and drop them then proceed to loot the bank... and get blown away by the summoned secubot as I leave
I think one secubot is guaranteed to spawn in the back area of the bank where the vault is. I have three banks in my town and the two I've explored had a secubot with a 5.56 gun. The first one got destroyed by zombies hordes early on but the second one held its bank against the hordes. I wasn't aware that they used 5.56 so I lured it to a window and then blasted it with one shotgun shot. As soon as I looted it I realized how incredibly dangerous it was to do this. Gonna be real careful when I peek into that last bank

lmao

Marenghi posted:

All the scifi stuff they like will be alien tech, everything they don't like will be removed for "realism".
I'm never gonna upgrade from stable it seems

Tin Tim fucked around with this message at 13:02 on May 26, 2020

Motherfucker
Jul 16, 2011

I certainly dont have deep-seated issues involving birthdays.

unironically one of my better runs was getting real good at sewing and making some leather and kevlar reinforced clothes that resisted regular zombie bites flawlessly so I could wail on zombies no sweat.

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!


Marenghi posted:

Kevin himself entered the thread on the removal of solar power laser turrets. He was answering a question on if CBMs will be removed for being unrealistic.
His answer was that CBMs are planned to have their lore changed to being alien tech.

All the scifi stuff they like will be alien tech, everything they don't like will be removed for "realism".

Their design document is loving stupid because it literally says that all technology is modern day except where it isn't. And this is then used as the perfectly reasonable logic for removing whatever content they decided they don't like any more.

PiCroft
Jun 10, 2010

I'm sorry, did I break all your shit? I didn't know it was yours



The problem is that as horrible as their design philosophy is, you can't fault their enthusiasm and dedication. Back in the days of Goon Days Ahead, we tried (a few different times I believe) to start a branch that didn't have all this silliness and the codebase was just such a gargantuan monster that making any kind of significant dent in it was just too much for any one person to handle and not everyone who was up for trying to contribute could do so regularly, either because of not having sufficient skills or time. Bear in mind, at this point in time, most of the game was still hard coded and hadn't been exported to more easily modifiable JSON. Forking now would be easier to handle now that the codebase has experienced significant refactoring and large chunks of it have been excised from code to JSON configurations, but it's still a monster.

On top of all of this, if you don't have the time, the energy and the sheer will to make this a project and stick with it for the long haul, it will ultimately just fail and wither like GDA did. Even forking and trying to keep it as a stable, more refined version with many of the bad ideas cut out (as I did when I briefly was in charge of GDA) would quickly fall out of favour when people see the main branch getting helicopters and inventory containers and whatever else new features get added. Keeping a second branch up to date with the pace of change of the experimentals and cherry picking the good poo poo would quickly become a full time job.

So really, unless Kevin makes a code change so egregious and that it can't be modded out, there's not much point to complaining other than to suggest ideas for new mods or to vent.

Manager Hoyden
Mar 5, 2020



PiCroft posted:

So really, unless Kevin makes a code change so egregious and that it can't be modded out, there's not much point to complaining other than to suggest ideas for new mods or to vent.

Yeah I suppose so but the game is outright hostile to new players, to the point that the mods you're talking about get "obsoleted" and are coded to be invisible to the player unless they dig into the mod's jsons to modify the mods to be available. Like if I don't want to play with filthy clothing, I literally need to know why it won't show in the mod list, go into the mod folder, find out which mod handles that, know to edit the modinfo.json to change a value, then enable it in the game. Hell, even the launcher that makes getting and installing mods a reasonable process won't run on a majority of PCs without editing your AV whitelist.

Yeah that's super simple if you've been following the game for years, keep up with the dev chatter, and have a smattering of technical skill, but if you're just coming into it it's nonsense. And I think that's intentional, which is chris-chan levels of diapernerdery.

Qubee
May 31, 2013






What the heck is a fema camp, I came across one and a bunch of zombies broke out and are littering my beautiful lawn. I've spent the past few days rounding them up and killing them, but there's so many. Is there any worthwhile loot in it? There's a whole other pen crammed full of zombies that I've not even gotten around to killing.

PiCroft
Jun 10, 2010

I'm sorry, did I break all your shit? I didn't know it was yours



Manager Hoyden posted:

Yeah I suppose so but the game is outright hostile to new players, to the point that the mods you're talking about get "obsoleted" and are coded to be invisible to the player unless they dig into the mod's jsons to modify the mods to be available. Like if I don't want to play with filthy clothing, I literally need to know why it won't show in the mod list, go into the mod folder, find out which mod handles that, know to edit the modinfo.json to change a value, then enable it in the game. Hell, even the launcher that makes getting and installing mods a reasonable process won't run on a majority of PCs without editing your AV whitelist.

Yeah that's super simple if you've been following the game for years, keep up with the dev chatter, and have a smattering of technical skill, but if you're just coming into it it's nonsense. And I think that's intentional, which is chris-chan levels of diapernerdery.

Oh I agree, there's a lot of gatekeeping in the mindset of the devs but other than having the mod launcher be more thorough about spotting and helping a new user access obsoleted mods, I'm not really sure how to solve that issue.

Inexplicable Humblebrag
Sep 20, 2003




Qubee posted:

What the heck is a fema camp, I came across one and a bunch of zombies broke out and are littering my beautiful lawn. I've spent the past few days rounding them up and killing them, but there's so many. Is there any worthwhile loot in it? There's a whole other pen crammed full of zombies that I've not even gotten around to killing.

FEMA death camps, op.

there can be some soldiers to loot and some gun lockers, along with a bunch of crates full of food, medical supplies, and generic Stuff. there will also be some zombie scientists

reignofevil
Nov 7, 2008


Sometimes you gotta break the rules.


Qubee posted:

What the heck is a fema camp, I came across one and a bunch of zombies broke out and are littering my beautiful lawn. I've spent the past few days rounding them up and killing them, but there's so many. Is there any worthwhile loot in it? There's a whole other pen crammed full of zombies that I've not even gotten around to killing.

Fema camps have some guns and in the very center they tend to have some medical supplies or maybe some mutagen and a first aid book or some such.

Qubee
May 31, 2013






Is it something I should avoid if I'm on my 3rd day and I'm a beginner? Or can I carry on kiting zombies like I have been and taking them out one by one.

Inexplicable Humblebrag
Sep 20, 2003




depends whether you're getting chipped away by the zombies. if you can kite them and murder them all with an axe or something with barely any damage or clothing rippage then great, but the reward isn't enormous

PiCroft
Jun 10, 2010

I'm sorry, did I break all your shit? I didn't know it was yours



Qubee posted:

Is it something I should avoid if I'm on my 3rd day and I'm a beginner? Or can I carry on kiting zombies like I have been and taking them out one by one.

Provided you can deal with the occupants, FEMA camps are probably best explored early on as their loot typically becomes not worth it to much more established survivors.

HiroProtagonist
May 7, 2007

This is an accurate representation of my current level of enjoyment.


Qubee posted:

Is it something I should avoid if I'm on my 3rd day and I'm a beginner? Or can I carry on kiting zombies like I have been and taking them out one by one.

Try and get your hands on some grenades, imo. Or molotovs, which are the safer option but still pretty lethal to zombies; unlike grenades though, molotovs make fire which totally destroys equipment just like any other kind of fire, whereas grenades are much more likely to just damage anything that doesn't just go unscathed.

The flip side is, if you don't have a good handle on the blast radius for grenades, it's real easy to kill or maim yourself with them. Ideally, if you are going to be playing with grenades, have enough with you that you can experiment somewhere empty first so you don't kill yourself when it's game time. And quicksave first so you can alt-F4 if you really gently caress things up. Grenades have a notorious tendency to get real fucky with the way they handle fragmentation.

(And don't forget to wear ear protection before you start chucking poo poo around! Molotovs should be ok though, I don't think they're loud).

The real fun comes when you find a military vehicle like a Humvee or something with a mounted Mark 19. That poo poo fucks.

e: there's nothing quite like leveling a few blocks of a small town with a remote-operated turreted mounted Mark 19 on the roof of your heavy-duty armored vehicle, seriously. feels like getting some much deserved revenge for all those fuckoff huge zombie blobs.

HiroProtagonist fucked around with this message at 17:26 on May 26, 2020

Tin Tim
Jun 4, 2012

Live by the pun - Die by the pun


Qubee posted:

Is it something I should avoid if I'm on my 3rd day and I'm a beginner? Or can I carry on kiting zombies like I have been and taking them out one by one.
The others already gave good advice but be careful about what type of zombies you run into due to the random evolutions upon map/area creation. The game doesn't just populate with weak zombies because it's your first few days but will actually sprinkle in some random evolved zombies. If the rng hates you and rolled an early zombie master in such a tightly packed area then the threat can jump up extremely quickly. And you can also stumble across napalm zombies iirc(former flamethrower soldiers) in FEMA camps and you don't want to engage them in melee

Also as a bit of context, FEMA is the Federal Emergency Management Agency in the US

Sillybones
Aug 10, 2013

go away,
spooky skeleton,
go away


In real life FEMA camps are where Americans are rounded up and force sterilised during man-made weather event disasters.

Xand_Man
Mar 2, 2004

If what you say is true
Wutang might be dangerous




OBAMAAAAA!

Ms Adequate
Oct 29, 2011

Baby even when I'm dead and gone
You will always be my only one, my only one
When the night is calling
No matter who I become
You will always be my only one, my only one, my only one
When the night is calling





Sillybones posted:

In real life FEMA camps are where Americans are rounded up and force sterilised during man-made weather event disasters.

Oh I'm glad they've liberalized so much, back in the day they were straight up execution camps like in-game.

Qubee posted:

Is it something I should avoid if I'm on my 3rd day and I'm a beginner? Or can I carry on kiting zombies like I have been and taking them out one by one.

Realtalk though, if you have a little armor to help with the hits you do take, and a half-decent weapon, as long as you can keep your distance and not get overextended you are probably okay. A gun for backup and/or dealing with soldier zombies (after the rest are dealt with, so the noise doesn't bring everyone down on you) would not be a bad idea.

The Lone Badger
Sep 24, 2007



Leal posted:

If you got the fungal infection you can eat a royal jelly.

Nope!
https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/pull/39782

Tin Tim
Jun 4, 2012

Live by the pun - Die by the pun


I just checked out a roof and was surprised to see a zombie, a krek, a mold and a mi-go sitting on another roof that was inaccessible from the ground. They murked the zombie and the krek+mold dropped down into the streets where I took them out. The mi-go stayed on the roof though so I returned with a rifle to kill the fucker anyway. Welcome to earth!

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss


"REAL royal jelly doesn't cure you! It's basically just honey!!"
yes well it also doesn't come from eight foot long interdimensional mutant bees so, you know, that might be a factor.

Leal
Oct 2, 2009

If you LP what I LP
And if you work retail like I work retail
You would also scream like I scream


What the hell, so is royal jelly now completely useless then.

Manager Hoyden
Mar 5, 2020



Vib Rib posted:

"REAL royal jelly doesn't cure you! It's basically just honey!!"
yes well it also doesn't come from eight foot long interdimensional mutant bees so, you know, that might be a factor.

A giant, floating, flaming eye can give me a permanent and fatal affliction from across the map just by seeing me?

Yes that is correct. Working as intended.

Well at least there is royal jelly, the one way to avoid this unbalanced and arbitrary death.

No that is unrealistic so we took it out.

Marenghi
Oct 16, 2008


Leal posted:

What the hell, so is royal jelly now completely useless then.

Yes. Though it seems the jelly you could find in labs has been replaced with a palette swap item. Because a cure-all derived from mutant bees is absurd, but a cure-all derived by scientists in an underground lab is realistic.

reignofevil
Nov 7, 2008


Sometimes you gotta break the rules.


Royal Jelly always made me feel like there was an underlying logic to what was happening that could theoretically be understood and controlled it's just the dead scientists who came before us had bad motives and asked the wrong questions. It felt like there was a larger ecosystem and that you could find the resources that were most useful to you in some surprising places! Kinda the whole theme of the game. Too bad now it's just 'labs are the endgame goal. Repeat after me. Labs. Are. The. Endgame. Goal.'

Manager Hoyden
Mar 5, 2020



And also being able to cure a single disease you picked up arbitrarily should be an end-game reward.

megane
Jun 20, 2008





The devs' goal is to slowly convert C:DDA into a survival-porn prepper simulator. It's safe to assume that anything not related to the core game loop of stockpiling a bunch of MREs and guns in a bunker and then meticulously micromanaging your health to stay alive as long as possible is getting phased out.

The only reason the game even has zombies in it is so you have something to shoot at with your pile of lovingly-modeled, customized, vintage soviet assault rifles.

Manager Hoyden
Mar 5, 2020



Don't forget your cabinet full of lovingly coded Japanese swords and armor.

AtomikKrab
Jul 17, 2010

Keep on GOP rolling rolling rolling rolling.


megane posted:

The devs' goal is to slowly convert C:DDA into a survival-porn prepper simulator. It's safe to assume that anything not related to the core game loop of stockpiling a bunch of MREs and guns in a bunker and then meticulously micromanaging your health to stay alive as long as possible is getting phased out.

The only reason the game even has zombies in it is so you have something to shoot at with your pile of lovingly-modeled, customized, vintage soviet assault rifles.

I thought it was to convert the game into a truck crafting simulator.

Wolfechu
May 2, 2009

All the world's a stage I'm going through



To be fair, I've found the panaceus pills more in the last few weeks than I've ever seen royal jelly.

Manager Hoyden
Mar 5, 2020



AtomikKrab posted:

I thought it was to convert the game into a truck crafting simulator.

Absolutely not. The dork lead dev has said multiple times his vision is moving away from "engineering" solutions and toward "scavenging" solutions. He basically wants it to be a miserable tin can search, and it kind of bothers him that people are building vehicles and shooting things in the game.

Kevin DuBrow
Apr 21, 2012

as requested

I spent so much time and resources clearing out a shipwreck for the first time. The loot was poo poo. At least I have plenty of razorclaw caviar.

Tin Tim
Jun 4, 2012

Live by the pun - Die by the pun


I just randomly found a PPA on the roof of a fire station. I guess it was placed there as loot due to the wasp nest and I have no ammo for it but still lol

Manager Hoyden posted:

Absolutely not. The dork lead dev has said multiple times his vision is moving away from "engineering" solutions and toward "scavenging" solutions. He basically wants it to be a miserable tin can search, and it kind of bothers him that people are building vehicles and shooting things in the game.
Sucks if true

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss


Outside of the lead devs including Kevin suddenly gaining a cosmic and/or dictionary understanding of the word "fun", the best outcome here is that they keep fixing up the core code, generation, UI, and things like that, while exposing more and more hardcoded elements to editable, moddable .json files. Then it's very easy for mods to roll back content changes while leaving in the actual improvements.

The Lone Badger
Sep 24, 2007



Manager Hoyden posted:

And also being able to cure a single disease you picked up arbitrarily should be an end-game reward.

There are other ways to cure fungus, including craftable medicine.

The Lone Badger
Sep 24, 2007



AtomikKrab posted:

I thought it was to convert the game into a truck crafting simulator.

Lego vehicles will get removed at some point for being unrealistic.

Nevets
Sep 11, 2002

Be they sad or be they well,
I'll make their lives a hell


Nah, removing functionality is anathema to many devs; it's an admission of wasted effort. Instead they'll just make any welding require Mechanics 6 and a ton of very rare TIG ammo.

Dandywalken
Feb 11, 2014

I will not shut up about the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers. I talk about them all the time and work them into every conversation. I actually named my daughter after the Pink ranger and will provide proof if challenged.


Napalm requires 8 cooking.

The substance notorious for being easy to make requires a master chef level of knowledge.

Also it tastes terrible.

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Maarak
May 23, 2007


Going by the official design document players aren't even supposed to acquire welding tools until late summer or so.

quote:

Mid-to-late summer to winter, year 1

Key Events:

    * Return of focus to food security as winter comes closer and survivor needs to work hard on stockpiling
    * Most other key resources now well stocked - ammo, clothing, armor. Survivor has likely managed to make some deep forays into a few towns, loot a mansion or the upper levels of a Lab.
    * Although the player isnít equipped to install CBMs or develop higher level mutagens they probably have access to the components now, and can start projects to get them on the go over the winter. Likewise for fancier gear and equipment that isnít available readily from raids.
    * Decreasing focus on wide ranging travel in favor of developing base defenses
    * May at this point have achieved welding tools
    * Probably has electricity and a secure water supply at home base.

Emphasis mine. That CBM line makes me groan too.

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