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Elysiume
Aug 13, 2009

Alone, she fights.


gently caress's sake I forgot how miserable the puns were in DD. Her tusks are supposed to be something hugely negative that she's suffered from her whole life and her reaction to someone drawing attention to it over and over again is just to go :[ rather than actually seem to care.

e: the other puns are also loving terrible but solely in the "this in no way approaches humor" way

Elysiume fucked around with this message at 11:20 on Aug 29, 2020

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PoptartsNinja
May 9, 2008

He is still almost definitely not a spy




Soiled Meat


"At least I'm not a misogynist like one of these bad men!" said the Lawful Good Mookie. "Now let me write another decade of material in which the women exist only to service and elevate men."

"... and when one character comes dangerously close to making me reflect on this by lampshading it to Luna it will be she, not Luna, who will be in the wrong."

PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 11:30 on Aug 29, 2020

Zerilan
Jan 11, 2008

I have to believe I can do this.







Greg version 1 is bad doesn't really bother me as much just because he's kinda supposed to be a dumb kid relative to the others and isn't really worse than any other other recurring characters. Greg version 2 is pretty awful though, and Greg version 3 is the worst character Mookie has made.

Also if people keep referring to that loving Cline Nerd Porn Auteur essay I am going to post it in its entirety.

YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!




Elysiume posted:

gently caress's sake I forgot how miserable the puns were in DD. Her tusks are supposed to be something hugely negative that she's suffered from her whole life and her reaction to someone drawing attention to it over and over again is just to go :[ rather than actually seem to care.

e: the other puns are also loving terrible but solely in the "this in no way approaches humor" way

:], surely.

Cat Mattress
Jul 14, 2012

by Cyrano4747


YF-23 posted:

:], surely.

¦^›[

Invisible Clergy
Sep 25, 2015

"Behold, I will corrupt your seed, and spread dung upon your faces"

Malachi 2:3


Elysiume posted:

gently caress's sake I forgot how miserable the puns were in DD. Her tusks are supposed to be something hugely negative that she's suffered from her whole life and her reaction to someone drawing attention to it over and over again is just to go :[ rather than actually seem to care.

e: the other puns are also loving terrible but solely in the "this in no way approaches humor" way

:',[

Zerilan posted:

Greg version 1 is bad doesn't really bother me as much just because he's kinda supposed to be a dumb kid relative to the others and isn't really worse than any other other recurring characters. Greg version 2 is pretty awful though, and Greg version 3 is the worst character Mookie has made.
Yeah, that's accurate.

TheHan
Oct 29, 2011

Grind, you poor fool!
Grind straight for the stars!

Dryad paving the way for a conga line of brutalized, bloodied women to follow in her steps.

Regalingualius
Jan 6, 2012


Invisible Clergy posted:


How ridiculous is it that I don't know whether you mean the Snowsong arc or the (non-orcrape parts) of Facebath?

I was thinking of Snowsong, yes.

And now I just remembered that the last arc where he was a central focus was also a major... drama bomb.

PoptartsNinja
May 9, 2008

He is still almost definitely not a spy




Soiled Meat





Zerilan posted:

Greg version 1 is bad doesn't really bother me as much just because he's kinda supposed to be a dumb kid relative to the others and isn't really worse than any other other recurring characters. Greg version 2 is pretty awful though, and Greg version 3 is the worst character Mookie has made.

Greg v1.0 is like, 35% Mookie
Greg v2.0 is like, 60% Mookie
Greg v3.0 is like 98.5% raw, unfiltered Mookie

Hostile V
May 30, 2013

Solving all of life's problems through enhanced casting of Occam's Razor. Reward yourself with an imaginary chalice.



And Greg Level 4 is to go even further beyond.

RoboChrist 9000
Dec 14, 2006

mater dolorosa

Regalingualius posted:

I was thinking of Snowsong, yes.

And now I just remembered that the last arc where he was a central focus was also a major... drama bomb.

Besides lots of sexualization of the titular Snowsong and of Rachelwhen she's in various states of peril and defeat, isn't Snowsong the one where we get the reveal that Rachel raped Mookie Prime and it's played for laughs and it's an 'oh ,you!' moment for Rachel not a 'Rachel is a horrible person and none of us should ever associate with her ever again.'

Samovar
Jun 4, 2011

I'm not a hero...





Zerilan posted:

Also if people keep referring to that loving Cline Nerd Porn Auteur essay I am going to post it in its entirety.

Do it! We're in the long haul for nerd-literary pain and disgust in this thread.

Zerilan
Jan 11, 2008

I have to believe I can do this.







Ernest Cline posted:

Nerd Porn Auteur

I've noticed that there don't seem to be any porno movies
that are made for guys like me.

All the porn I've come across
was targeted at beer-swilling sports bar dwelling alpha-males
Men who like their women stupid and submissive
Men who can only get it up for monosyllabic cock-hungry nymphos
with gargantuan breasts and a three-word vocabulary
Adult films are populated with these collagen-injected
liposuctioned women
Many of whom have resorted to surgery and self-mutilation
in an attempt to look the way they have been told to look.

These aren't real women. They're objects.
And these movies aren't erotic. They're pathetic.
These vacuum-headed gently caress bunnies don't turn me on.
They disgust me.
And it's not that I'm against pornography.
I mean, I'm a guy. And guys need porn.
Fact.
"Like a preacher needs pain, like a needle needs a vein,"
Guys need porn.

But I don't wanna watch this misogynist he-man woman-hater porn.
I want porno movies that are made with guys like me in mind:
Guys who know that the sexiest thing in the world
is a woman who is smarter than you are.

You can have the whole cheerleading squad,
I want the girl in the tweed skirt and the horn-rimmed glasses:
Betty Finnebowski, the valedictorian.
Oh yes.
First I want to copy her Trig homework,
and then I want to make mad, passionate love to her
for hours and hours
until she reluctantly asks if we can stop
because she doesn't want to miss Battlestar Galactica.
Summa cum laude, baby!
That is what I call erotic.

But do you ever see that kind of a woman in a contemporary adult film?
No.
Which is why I'm going to start writing and directing Geek Porno.
I shall be the quintessential Nerd Porn Auteur.
And the women in my porno movies will be the kind
that drive nerds like me mad with desire.

I'm talking about the girls that used to gently caress up the grading curve.
The girls in the Latin Club and the National Honor Society.
Chicks with weird clothes, braces, four eyes, and 4.0 GPAs.
Brainy articulate bookworms, with MENSA cards in their purses
and chips on their shoulders.

My porn starlets will come in all shapes and sizes.
My porn starlets will be too busy working on their PhD to go to the gym.

In my kind of porno movies the girls wouldn't even have to get naked.
They'd just take the guys down to the rec room and
beat them repeatedly at chess
and then talk to them for hours about Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle
or the underlying social metaphors in the Aliens movies.

Buy stock in some hand cream companies
because there is about to be a major shortage.

And I'm not just talking about straight porn. Oh no.
There should be gently caress films for my nerd brethren
of all sexual orientations.
Gay nerd porn flicks with titles like "Dungeons and Drag-queens."

This idea is a loving gold mine.
I am gonna make millions,
because this country is full of database programmers
and electronics engineers
and they aren't getting the loving they so desperately need.
And you can help . . .

If you're an intelligent woman is interested in breaking into the adult film industry,
and if you can tell me the name of Luke Skywalker's home planet,
then you are hired.

It doesn't matter if you think you're overweight or unattractive.
It doesn't matter if you don't think you're beautiful.
You are beautiful. . .
And I will make you a star.

Joe Slowboat
Nov 9, 2016

Higgledy-Piggledy Whale Statements





How was that worse than I remembered, when I already remembered it as an atrocity? I wasn't ready. And I had definitely forgotten it was supposed to be in verse.

Zerilan
Jan 11, 2008

I have to believe I can do this.







I'm definitely not linking any of the video/audio of him reading this live to applause and cheers though.

FlocksOfMice
Feb 3, 2009


Heh, I'm a real good guy who REALLY cares about women.

Also if you don't fit into my narrow view of nerdy women you aren't a real woman and you're ugly and unnattractive. Women with big breasts? Disgusting. I'm glad I'm an educated, sophisticated male who casually dismisses a whole bunch of women as not being entitled to womanhood because they aren't what I'm sexually interested in.

Ignore what all those lovely alpha-men say about what women need to be! I'm not like that! Because I'm saying women should have obscure nerd trivia memorized and then they're worth my dick, which is a very valuable thing for them to all desire, of course, because this dick respects women (so long as they exist in the specific forms that satisfy it correctly).

Holy gently caress Ernest Cline is worse than I had even imagined. How can you be that self-unaware??

... is Dominic Deegan going to get like this too, I'm scared.

Zerilan
Jan 11, 2008

I have to believe I can do this.







FlocksOfMice posted:

... is Dominic Deegan going to get like this too, I'm scared.

Beyond that we get more "lower back problems" jokes, and that Mookie loves sexualizing dead women, there's definitely a part where Greg version 3 goes to basically a red light district and comes back talking about how women being openly sexual women do nothing for him while fetishizing the more modestly dressed nurse/mayor.

Regalingualius
Jan 6, 2012



:stonk:

Okay, how many bodies did he have buried in his basement?

Captain Oblivious
Oct 12, 2007

Right in the Kokoro



FlocksOfMice posted:

Heh, I'm a real good guy who REALLY cares about women.

Also if you don't fit into my narrow view of nerdy women you aren't a real woman and you're ugly and unnattractive. Women with big breasts? Disgusting. I'm glad I'm an educated, sophisticated male who casually dismisses a whole bunch of women as not being entitled to womanhood because they aren't what I'm sexually interested in.

Ignore what all those lovely alpha-men say about what women need to be! I'm not like that! Because I'm saying women should have obscure nerd trivia memorized and then they're worth my dick, which is a very valuable thing for them to all desire, of course, because this dick respects women (so long as they exist in the specific forms that satisfy it correctly).

Holy gently caress Ernest Cline is worse than I had even imagined. How can you be that self-unaware??

... is Dominic Deegan going to get like this too, I'm scared.

Obviously, yes.

Fister Roboto
Feb 21, 2008



Buglord


I remember being like this once. Never again.

Fister Roboto
Feb 21, 2008



Buglord

FlocksOfMice posted:

... is Dominic Deegan going to get like this too, I'm scared.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKfupO4ZzPs

SardonicTyrant
Feb 26, 2016

BTICH IM A NEWT
熱くなれ夢みた明日を
必ずいつかつかまえる
走り出せ振り向くことなく
&





FlocksOfMice posted:

... is Dominic Deegan going to get like this too, I'm scared.
By the end of the series despite the adventures she has Luna never grows emotionally, so.

super sweet best pal
Nov 18, 2009



Hostile V posted:

It's a lot like playing Quarters but nobody is drinking.

Must not be a very successful strip club.

catlord
Mar 22, 2009

What's on your mind, Axa?


Why would you do this to this thread, you monster. Joe Slowboat speaks for me here:

Joe Slowboat posted:

How was that worse than I remembered, when I already remembered it as an atrocity? I wasn't ready. And I had definitely forgotten it was supposed to be in verse.

Rotten Red Rod
Mar 5, 2002



Christ, I'm all for body positivity and porn that's respectful to women, but... Yikes.

SardonicTyrant
Feb 26, 2016

BTICH IM A NEWT
熱くなれ夢みた明日を
必ずいつかつかまえる
走り出せ振り向くことなく
&





edit: nvm, I just read that porn thing in full, so I don't think my joke makes sense.

RoboChrist 9000
Dec 14, 2006

mater dolorosa

Rotten Red Rod posted:

Christ, I'm all for body positivity and porn that's respectful to women, but... Yikes.

It's reactionary nonsense that comes from the same place as Mookie's hang-ups. Like, I'm not ashamed to admit - because I like to think I've matured as a person and grown since then - that when I was in High School that for at least my first two years I had a sort of outward view. Like I was into big ol' honkers back then but I still as part of my nerd identity kind of acted like I was above sex and such things. Big boobed women are just dumb bimbos for jocks. It's the popular kids who are into sex and sexuality and big breasted babes. I'm a nerd and I'm above such juvenile passions!

I suspect I am hardly unique in having had that embarassing and idiotic phase. The thing is, most of us grow out of it. Mookie and Cline never did. They're still fighting the same battles against imaginary enemies - and themselves - that they fought in High School.

Kavak
Aug 23, 2009




Bit late but would anyone like a spoken word version of that poem?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bF67Mm0l4Pw

Happy Noodle Boy
Jul 3, 2002



NO

Beelzebufo
Mar 5, 2015

Frog puns are toadally awesome




I wanna copy her trig homework lol

Beelzebufo
Mar 5, 2015

Frog puns are toadally awesome




The Little Death's review of Chapter 4: Into the Woods [Part 2]

After where we left off last time:



It does not take our antagonists long to find our hero. One strip in fact.



Greg begins channeling Mookie and becomes incredibly smug.




The next part of the story does move along at a fair clip, but it starts showing the hallmarks of not planning ahead in that things happen only to be reversed in the next strip





Reading these strips, I'm reminded of a blog post that accompanied a Digger strip, that i'm having trouble finding in the archive. It's after the revelation of a demon, a really powerful and scary strip given all the buildup to it, and the author, Ursula Vernon, talks about how the webcomic medium allows for this pacing of stories where you almost have a tv show like effect. You leave a cliffhanger on a weekend and it builds anticipation in a way turning a page can't, in the printed volumes. And she talks about how people reading digger later won't have the same experience because of it.

Mookie's writing is so dependent on the cliffhanger effect that when it goes away, it almost becomes irritating. Events and counter-events happen in such quick succession that you feel like the comic is wasting you time. I don't think people following along with it at the time would have felt it, but I can't imagine reading this as a print work, apart from mockingly.

Anyway the gang runs away, but don't worry Dominic has an (extremly convoluted) plan!





The plan appears to be to sacrifice Greg! How could the saintly dominic do such a thing?


Oh ho, it was a set up to a graphic murder!




I know the Infernomance (or TIM has people called him during the comic's run) is the bad guy, and he hurt the dryad by cutting her tree down, but I do find it funny that the 2 graphic on screen deaths that have occured in the comic so far have both been at the hands of characters on Dominic's side.

Turns out neither Stunt nor Bumper rolled high enough however.





I will say that I do find this to be a high point in the comic. The Infernomancer, thoug he would get dumber with each new appearance, isn't the worst villain at this point, despite him looking like a naruto reject. I like this, where he just gets up from having his throat slit laughing, with blood coming out of his mouth. Very menacing and cool.




Brok misses killing Stunt and they literally run out the side of the strip, not to be seen again this adventure, or in Brok's case, ever. I remember Mookie making a blog post about how he didn't like musclebound dudes like brok in his setting. He prefers his absurd violence in the form of DBZ spirit bombs.


TIM then provides us with some backstory villain speech, classic.




Again, not mad at this. A little cliche but I'm a sucker for the villain saying, "yeah, you're right, I brought this on myself and I am hurting others just to avoid owning my mistakes. But I don't care". The "You're probably right" as he skewers Greg is good villain dialogue.

HERE COMES DEEGANPLAN



So we see here that first misdirection and manipulation was Dominic switching places with Gregory. Self-Sacrifice? But why bother hiding as gregory, why not fake being handicapped yourself. It's not like the Infernomancer knows any of them at this point. Also again, Dominic is learned, so he knows what TIM is.



Again, why or how was this a trick on the Infernomancer? He doesn't know who any of you are.



Oh no, Dominic's plan was a failure and he is dead!



Dead I say! But maybe all is not lost!



Gregory avenges him, and I guess Luna's contribution to the plan is to heal him just so he suffers more. I mean, Dominic set this up so he must have known fire would heal an infernomancer. Nice protagonists you got there Mookie. I don't know why in particular devil wizards should get healed by fire magic, but I guess teiflings are resistant to fire and it is hell so whatever.




Nope he's fine, it was all part of his master plan, where he knew Gregory would super-saiyan white mage out, and that would bring him back from what would clearly have been death otherwise.




Again, this doesn't actually explain why the trick was necessary. He could just have said he twisted his ankle. Mookie, lacking a theory of mind, didn't think that the Infernomancer would not know any of these people.
Also, this is the first big case where Dominic will engender extreme emotional reactions in people to get his desired outcome. Here, I guess we accept that without genuine anger Greg couldn't have musters that much white mana, but really it seems sort of convenient that these much more powerful characters need Dominic as puppet master to be effective. If they were just in control of their own abilities he wouldn't be necessary at all. Also, given how Luna reacted, it's hard to tell whether or not she knew fire magic would heal TIM. Dominic didnt' tell her about the healing surge he would get, so maybe he didn't tell her that fire magic wouldn't work? And she just did it, realized her mistake, but covered for it when she saw Greg was going to save the day?

Anyway, TIM is gone for now, Brok is gone for good, and the Sylvan Oracle heals the dryad




We end the chapter on a few tree related puns, and an unneeded explanation on how dominic cleverly figured out which tree the dryad needed to be under to heal. Turns out it's all of them!



Again, the setup and payoff for this must have seemed really clever to Mookie, but to me reading it, I had to go back to see what the gently caress Greg was even talking about. it's the line where Dirk says "wait near the first tree you see". Barely registers when you read it, but Mookie obviously thinks it really demonstrates Dominic's cleverness.


At this point Stunt and Bumper are well within their rights to murder Dominic the next time they see him, given his callous disregard for their lives.


All together, I know people complain about it being different from the stage show, but it has Meryl Streep and Chris Pine in it. I just can't be that mad at it.



Oh Chris Pine, you're still my favority Chris even if JJ Abrams did murder your career :allears:. Just as long as you keep the beard. No Chris without facial hair. :colbert:

Beelzebufo fucked around with this message at 03:48 on Aug 30, 2020

SardonicTyrant
Feb 26, 2016

BTICH IM A NEWT
熱くなれ夢みた明日を
必ずいつかつかまえる
走り出せ振り向くことなく
&





The Little Death posted:

The next part of the story does move along at a fair clip, but it starts showing the hallmarks of not planning ahead in that things happen only to be reversed in the next strip



Reading these strips, I'm reminded of a blog post that accompanied a Digger strip, that i'm having trouble finding in the archive. It's after the revelation of a demon, a really powerful and scary strip given all the buildup to it, and the author, Ursula Vernon, talks about how the webcomic medium allows for this pacing of stories where you almost have a tv show like effect. You leave a cliffhanger on a weekend and it builds anticipation in a way turning a page can't, in the printed volumes. And she talks about how people reading digger later won't have the same experience because of it.

Mookie's writing is so dependent on the cliffhanger effect that when it goes away, it almost becomes irritating. Events and counter-events happen in such quick succession that you feel like the comic is wasting you time. I don't think people following along with it at the time would have felt it, but I can't imagine reading this as a print work, apart from mockingly.
Schlock Mercenary is so, so, so guilty of this.

super sweet best pal
Nov 18, 2009



The Little Death posted:

Mookie's writing is so dependent on the cliffhanger effect that when it goes away, it almost becomes irritating. Events and counter-events happen in such quick succession that you feel like the comic is wasting you time. I don't think people following along with it at the time would have felt it, but I can't imagine reading this as a print work, apart from mockingly.

Trust me, even with the wait we did. Only difference is we were betting on which obvious anti-climax would happen.

Invisible Clergy
Sep 25, 2015

"Behold, I will corrupt your seed, and spread dung upon your faces"

Malachi 2:3


The Little Death posted:

Reading these strips, I'm reminded of a blog post that accompanied a Digger strip, that i'm having trouble finding in the archive. It's after the revelation of a demon, a really powerful and scary strip given all the buildup to it, and the author, Ursula Vernon, talks about how the webcomic medium allows for this pacing of stories where you almost have a tv show like effect. You leave a cliffhanger on a weekend and it builds anticipation in a way turning a page can't, in the printed volumes. And she talks about how people reading digger later won't have the same experience because of it.

Mookie's writing is so dependent on the cliffhanger effect that when it goes away, it almost becomes irritating. Events and counter-events happen in such quick succession that you feel like the comic is wasting you time. I don't think people following along with it at the time would have felt it, but I can't imagine reading this as a print work, apart from mockingly.
That's an interesting point, but if you glance at the original mock threads once they'd caught up to reading the comic live, the fake cliffhangers that Mookie did every Friday to undo them every Monday did immediately become annoying. When reading the comic live, this kind of thing didn't become less annoying.

quote:

The plan appears to be to sacrifice Greg! How could the saintly dominic do such a thing?
Tim is blind. Why did this plan work? Even if we set aside Dominic's omniscience for a moment, where he'd instinctively know Tim is blind for Reasons, he can see he's got a cloth over his eyes.

quote:

I will say that I do find this to be a high point in the comic. The Infernomancer, thoug he would get dumber with each new appearance, isn't the worst villain at this point, despite him looking like a naruto reject. I like this, where he just gets up from having his throat slit laughing, with blood coming out of his mouth. Very menacing and cool.
The throat wound did still clearly actually work on him and hurt him though, so I'm distracted by asking "how can he talk with a throat wound?" Mookie could've at least made the borders of his speech balloon jagged or something.

quote:

Gregory avenges him, and I guess Luna's contribution to the plan is to heal him just so he suffers more. I mean, Dominic set this up so he must have known fire would heal an infernomancer. Nice protagonists you got there Mookie. I don't know why in particular devil wizards should get healed by fire magic, but I guess teiflings are resistant to fire and it is hell so whatever.
If Tim is healed by fire, and he knows this, why would he bother with this dryad quest? It would be easier to get a mage to shoot a fireball at him which we see grows his eyes back.

He becomes less threatening every time he appears even if his appearances are marked by progressively more gruesome and numerous kills of nameless npcs.

Zereth
Jul 8, 2003




Wait.

Why did Tim need the dryad's blood when he could just light himself on fire? Or get somebody to cast fireball at him, whatever.\
EDIT:

Invisible Clergy posted:

If Tim is healed by fire, and he knows this, why would he bother with this dryad quest? It would be easier to get a mage to shoot a fireball at him which we see grows his eyes back.

He becomes less threatening every time he appears even if his appearances are marked by progressively more gruesome and numerous kills of nameless npcs.
:yeah:

also as I recall every time he reappeared, we cared even less about the inhabitants of the world.

Zereth fucked around with this message at 04:57 on Aug 30, 2020

Fister Roboto
Feb 21, 2008



Buglord


Wait so if fire heals him, why didn't he just set himself on fire to get his eyes back?

TheHan
Oct 29, 2011

Grind, you poor fool!
Grind straight for the stars!

It’s amazing that even in these early strips there’s never a single threat to our heroes. Stunt & Bumper sure, but the clan Deegan is always 100% in control of the situation. The guy’s consistent if nothing else.

FlocksOfMice
Feb 3, 2009


Why even plot it out that he's healed by fire if his being healed by fire is just going to get immediately undone anyway? What narrative point does that serve at all, other than to pad things out? At least the fake-out with Dominic is there to say "Dominic is very clever and a puppetmaster" the healing him with fire does literally nothing other than, I guess, answer why Luna can't solve the problem, because of course she can't be allowed to defeat him, right?

But Dominic's brother just could have acted first, anyway. There was--there was no POINT to that, and it's hurting my head.

Heliotrope
Aug 17, 2007

You're fucking subhuman


If I remember, Mookie later said that the fire healing is only temporary. I don't know if it comes up in the strip or was just something he said when people pointed out "Doesn't this guy heal by getting set on fire?"

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TheHan
Oct 29, 2011

Grind, you poor fool!
Grind straight for the stars!

If I had to guess it was just to set up a “clever” way to defeat the infernomancer. Since we just got introduced to the guy we don’t know anything about what he is or how he works, so Mookie has to very quickly show the fire healing thing to subvert it immediately with the white magic. It plays out like a game mechanic you would learn in a turn based RPG, probably because it is.

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