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cinci zoo sniper posted:I would suggest against another Geneva Convention slap fight. Whether or not POW protections apply to spies and saboteurs, cruel behaviour against them in your captivity doesn’t not reflect well on you. Genuinely, how is correcting people about what is and isnt a war crime relevant? It seems weird to look at a discussion like that and think that its a slap fight. I understand the rule on not rehashing arguments but if anything should be exempt it should be correcting people about this. Its pretty fuckin important in a thread about a war. the thread moves so fast that its likely a lot of people could only see someone confidently assuring them executing people is fine and not see the correction. ideally this would be cracked down on but i understand not wanting to probe people for just being misinformed
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Mar 2, 2022 23:11
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quarantinethepast posted:Does anyone remember this short film doing a mock BBC broadcast of a nuclear war?
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Mar 2, 2022 23:13
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ZombieLenin posted:This makes the person subject to the governing military code of the belligerent who captured them, and while they must be treated humanly and given a trial per article 75, they are not subject to any protection of life afforded to a Prisoner of War under the Geneva Protocols.
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Mar 2, 2022 23:13
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https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1499142093381513217?s=20&t=68i7qsttofMQVpq0Us_qxA Yeah. I expect the extent of the devastation will wrench my guts when the smoke clears.
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Mar 2, 2022 23:14
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KitConstantine posted:These two items are almost certainly related For the last several days, DOD officials and John Kirby have stated that Russia has elected not to mobilize additional forces. The US assessment is that Russia believes it has the sufficient combat power available to achieve their immediate objectives. The US has been careful to say that the percentage “committed” to Ukraine does not imply that percentage has culminated or is in contact.
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Mar 2, 2022 23:16
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Raenir Salazar posted:You'd be surprised! Japan accepted a number of jewish refugees during WW2. in addition to what others have already said about imperial japan internalizing antisemitic propaganda (supposedly in part due to a jewish financier backing japan during the russo-japanese war to spite the pogroms of the tsar), the initial acceptance of the refugees wasn't state policy, it was pretty much solely because one diplomat exceeded his authority (from humanitarian motivations, as i understand), and presented it to his superiors as a fait accompli which they decided not to reverse due to previously discussed warped intake of antisemitic tracts
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Mar 2, 2022 23:17
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Shes Not Impressed posted:https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1499142093381513217?s=20&t=68i7qsttofMQVpq0Us_qxA I can't condemn the Ukrainians for this. Those Russia artillerymen have the choice to fire those guns on civilians, they could always walk away or mutiny. Monstrous. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 2, 2022 23:18
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How are u posted:I can't condemn the Ukrainians for this. Those Russia artillerymen have the choice to fire those guns on civilians, they could always walk away or mutiny. Monstrous. Murdering prisoners is still murdering prisoners evwn if they shot first. It may be 'understandable' but is still horrifically wrong.
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Mar 2, 2022 23:20
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Well folks we have proof that the Ukrainians don't want peace. I mean the artillerymen all have peace keeper cards in their pockets
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Mar 2, 2022 23:20
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:in addition to what others have already said about imperial japan internalizing antisemitic propaganda (supposedly in part due to a jewish financier backing japan during the russo-japanese war to spite the pogroms of the tsar), the initial acceptance of the refugees wasn't state policy, it was pretty much solely because one diplomat exceeded his authority (from humanitarian motivations, as i understand), and presented it to his superiors as a fait accompli which they decided not to reverse due to previously discussed warped intake of antisemitic tracts
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Mar 2, 2022 23:21
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How are u posted:I can't condemn the Ukrainians for this. Those Russia artillerymen have the choice to fire those guns on civilians, they could always walk away or mutiny. Monstrous. It's a bad idea; you want to incentivize enemy combatants to surrender.
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Mar 2, 2022 23:21
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Understandable war crimes are still war crimes, this is horrible PR for Ukraine and is going to impact the number of Russians surrendering.
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Mar 2, 2022 23:21
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The tweet appears likely to be just repeating the facebook post discussed earlier.
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Mar 2, 2022 23:22
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ImpAtom posted:Murdering prisoners is still murdering prisoners evwn if they shot first. It may be 'understandable' but is still horrifically wrong. Yes, war is wrong.
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Mar 2, 2022 23:23
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How are u posted:I can't condemn the Ukrainians for this. Those Russia artillerymen have the choice to fire those guns on civilians, they could always walk away or mutiny. Monstrous. russians who protest the war are getting imprisoned by the thousands, what do you think will happen to deserters or mutineers? Or worse -- to their families? besides, the ukrainians are nazis using their own people as human shields, they are told Theyre still committing war crimes but I bet if you were a russian artilleryman, you'd keep loading shell after shell.
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Mar 2, 2022 23:23
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How are u posted:I can't condemn the Ukrainians for this. Those Russia artillerymen have the choice to fire those guns on civilians, they could always walk away or mutiny. Monstrous. They could just shoot them in open conflict, there is zero reason to capture a force, and then shoot them after they've surrendered.
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Mar 2, 2022 23:26
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So I can fire artillery into a city for days on end, and as soon as I see Ukrainian soldiers I can put my hands up and be treated the same as a conscript POW who baled from their tank the first chance they got? Does that seem reasonable or just?
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Mar 2, 2022 23:26
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Gonna lay down the gauntlet: Ukraine is wrong to say this, but lets stop debating this. It is a war crime. Move on to something else other than a slapfight about an obvious "Yes its a war crime"
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Mar 2, 2022 23:26
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Shes Not Impressed posted:https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1499142093381513217?s=20&t=68i7qsttofMQVpq0Us_qxA I hope every effort is made to make this known to Russian units, and that hopefully it will lead to some defections/abandoning posts/whatever. e: war is hosed up and no ones' hands are fully clean at the end ReidRansom fucked around with this message at 23:29 on Mar 2, 2022 |
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Mar 2, 2022 23:27
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Multiple different things can be simultaneously and independently bad Shooting surrendering troops is one of those bad things that shouldn't happen CommieGIR posted:Gonna lay down the gauntlet: Ukraine is wrong to say this, but lets stop debating this. It is a war crime.
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Mar 2, 2022 23:27
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Kraftwerk posted:One thing I will say is governments are clearly strong enough to seize the personal property of Russian oligarchs. Makes you think what could happen if they were this based when it comes to billionaires and their taxes. Russian yacht go gently caress yourself
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Mar 2, 2022 23:27
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Nothingtoseehere posted:So I can fire artillery into a city for days on end, and as soon as I see Ukrainian soldiers I can put my hands up and be treated the same as a conscript POW who baled from their tank the first chance they got? Does that seem reasonable or just? yes, those are the rules of war they rarely get resolved on the battlefield, sometimes in a court after the war is over, and definitely never on an internet forum full of autodidact voyeurs
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Mar 2, 2022 23:28
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ummel posted:Yes, war is wrong. In this specific case it isn't war. It is murder. If you can take a prisoner and murder them instead it has nothing to do with war. Nothingtoseehere posted:So I can fire artillery into a city for days on end, and as soon as I see Ukrainian soldiers I can put my hands up and be treated the same as a conscript POW who baled from their tank the first chance they got? Does that seem reasonable or just? Yes. Revenge murder is not just. If for no other reason then it being incredibly unlikely that your captor can tell you from the conscripts who bailed out. The anger is understandable but war crimes don't stop being war crimes because it makes you feel better Edit: didn't see the previous post. I'll drop here.
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Mar 2, 2022 23:29
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Carnotaurus posted:It's a bad idea; you want to incentivize enemy combatants to surrender. What happens if the defenders can't afford to take prisoners because they are forced into a guerrilla style resistance? It's gonna get ugly. I'll still support them though, a good chunk of post WW2 Italy's identity is based on the concept of partisan resistance after all.
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Mar 2, 2022 23:29
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So I had an interesting conversation with a Maldovian Captain today at school. It was regarding their force structure mainly. I had no idea they had an entire Russian DTG (4 brigades) stationed in their eastern territory since the 90's. That must be a crazy pucker factor.
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Mar 2, 2022 23:30
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Raenir Salazar posted:You'd be surprised! Japan accepted a number of jewish refugees during WW2. They also have a literal 1.2% refugee acceptance rate, of the few who bother apply.
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Mar 2, 2022 23:30
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I've never understood the endless kowtowing to billionaires: They get a bunch of money constantly thrown at them by governments because "butbutbutbut they'll pick up and leave if we try to go after their wealth!" Except they are not actually taxed at all and are basically just parasites who throw money at politicians to continue the above cycle. So Russian yacht go gently caress yourself yes plz
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Mar 2, 2022 23:30
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ummel posted:Yes, war is wrong. If only we had a term for things we consider to be terrible even in the context of a war! We could criminalize it, maybe? im beimg glib because the fact that ive seen multiple people make posts like this in response to "uh this is a war crime" is really loving me up lol edit: posted this before the modpost but my previous point stands. its hosed up to stamp this out like a slapfignt when its literally people posting that war crimes are acceptable
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Mar 2, 2022 23:31
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jeeves posted:I've never understood the endless kowtowing to billionaires: They bribe people. It is as simple as that
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Mar 2, 2022 23:31
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steinrokkan posted:There's no way they'll "collapse" the separatist areas, they are as urban as Ukraine gets, with entrenched Russians. They can, however, sweep north and hit the Russian lines towards Kharkiv from the flank. IIRC according to published maps the eastern counterattacks were roughly in that direction, rather than towards Donetsk or Luhansk Correct, it was north of Luhansk. They can use that to do a borderline sweep in either direction.
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Mar 2, 2022 23:31
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ReidRansom posted:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_(sailing_yacht)
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Mar 2, 2022 23:37
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Silly question, but do the oligarchs have any legal recourse against the governments that seized their properties? Just wondering if there's any risk they can sue for damages?
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Mar 2, 2022 23:37
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Okay now we are past 'warcrimes bad' I think the interesting observation here is that in the last 24 hours we've seen Ukranian public messaging start to fall apart a bit. It's looking less centrally coordinated, different military units are writing their own stuff and putting it up on Facebook and it's getting very hit-and-miss and certainly a lot more cuthroat. Probably parallels the state of the war somewhat. e: something new tax https://twitter.com/Charles_Lister/status/1499143133917069317 Alchenar fucked around with this message at 23:41 on Mar 2, 2022 |
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Mar 2, 2022 23:39
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Poland wants Russia's economy to bleed out faster https://twitter.com/MorawieckiM/status/1499131916460736512?t=a5dek499WIzcrk0AYhh5jA&s=19
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Mar 2, 2022 23:40
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Varinn posted:Genuinely, how is correcting people about what is and isnt a war crime relevant? It seems weird to look at a discussion like that and think that its a slap fight. I understand the rule on not rehashing arguments but if anything should be exempt it should be correcting people about this. Its pretty fuckin important in a thread about a war. Have I probated someone this evening over Geneva Convention chat? Some posters seemed ready to double down, so all I did was issue a preemptive warning to keep the argument brief, to avoid repeat of last night, when there was half a dozen pages long circular conversation about the very same topic, which went nowhere. Much like with daily mentions of NATO history, no-fly zones, or nuclear war - I don’t probate generally if people show they know when to stop.
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Mar 2, 2022 23:40
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I'm very, VERY, surprised this is still up. Russian so you'll have to translate but way worth it. Of course, coming from academic philologists, it's unsurprising they bemoan The war will lead to the final displacement of the Russian language from the Ukrainian cultural space. The Russian language - the language of great Russian culture, the language of Tolstoy, Dostoevsky and Chekhov - having become the language of aggressive politics, is rapidly losing its position in the world. https://www.istorex.ru/post/%D0%BE%...%81%D0%B8%D0%B8
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Mar 2, 2022 23:40
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I mentioned it last night but the destruction in Zhytomyr is horrific. The city is suffering heavy damage https://twitter.com/buch10_04/status/1499133402297024517?t=_5Pn6LiTaRqP9Ozylxe-yQ&s=19 Edited for accuracy KitConstantine fucked around with this message at 00:35 on Mar 3, 2022 |
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Mar 2, 2022 23:42
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This is from about 24 hours ago, but relevant. Today’s transcript is not yet available. quote:US SENIOR DEFENSE OFFICIAL: It's not a surprise, Luis, that they rely on conscripts. We've known this about the Russian military that, I mean, it's not an all-volunteer force like the United States military is. So I mean, that's not a surprise that they would be relying on conscripts, draftees if you will. That was, I think, pretty well known. https://www.defense.gov/News/Transcripts/Transcript/Article/2950497/senior-defense-official-holds-a-background-briefing/
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Mar 2, 2022 23:43
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Rinkles posted:Silly question, but do the oligarchs have any legal recourse against the governments that seized their properties? Just wondering if there's any risk they can sue for damages? Nominally yes, luckily as sovereign nations though they'd just pass a law saying "actually you can't, sorry"
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Mar 2, 2022 23:43
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Alchenar posted:Okay now we are past 'warcrimes bad' I think the interesting observation here is that in the last 24 hours we've seen Ukranian public messaging start to fall apart a bit. It's looking less centrally coordinated, different military units are writing their own stuff and putting it up on Facebook and it's getting very hit-and-miss and certainly a lot more cuthroat. Probably parallels the state of the war somewhat. I'm baffled by that coming out of a newspaper during wartime, it's really bad international PR when their winning strategy is making this take a long time with good international PR. You'd think there'd be someone in the Ukrainian armed forces going "oh no, no no no, poo poo" and shutting that down.
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