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as far as the lobster poo poo goes, i THINK i understand what jorp's trying to do, but someone can help correct me jorp is using lobsters because humans and lobsters share a common ancestor, and lobsters are like incredibly old, like 100 million years, so jorp thinks that this will help demonstrate some behaviors stand the course of time. so he cherrypicks certain traits that lobsters have, such as the 'dominance hierarchy', and uses that to demonstrate that if a creature as primitive as the lobster has a hierarchy, then OF COURSE humans will have one as well, so thus capitalism rulz on the surface level, i can see how this may be somewhat of a compelling argument. where he loses me is, why do we have to go as far back as something like lobsters? why not a more recent ancestor/relative like chimps or bonobos or whatever? or hell, even another arthropod that's more advanced than the lobster? these animals behave in all kinds of different manners that go completely against jorp's rightwing worldview, and would probably make for better examples since they're more recent/closer to humans than lobsters are.
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Dec 29, 2021 05:55
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Does he understand that humans are not, in fact, lobsters? I don't remember the last time a lobster painted a Mona Lisa but we humans have arts and culture. I don't know maybe they stack rocks or something as art. 
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Dec 29, 2021 06:03
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i dominate the gently caress outta lobsters (after my mom boils them, i'm scared to get pinched)
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Dec 29, 2021 06:04
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humans are not similar to lobsters when you think about it.
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Dec 29, 2021 06:08
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Pennywise the Frown posted:Does he understand that humans are not, in fact, lobsters? I honestly don't think he does.
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Dec 29, 2021 06:10
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It's because he's cherrypicking stuff that might not even be true at all, ignoring the millennia of evolution between then and now, and whittling it down to fit his ridiculous theories. If you could elevate a lobster to understand books, it would probably laugh and call Jorp a stupid rear end in a top hat before it went back to the ocean floor to live the rest of its indefinite-but-decidedly-chill life.
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Dec 29, 2021 06:13
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Mr Interweb posted:as far as the lobster poo poo goes, i THINK i understand what jorp's trying to do, but someone can help correct me He's a loving dipshit. Yeah no poo poo hierarchies exist and form naturally ??? whoa groundbreaking psychology work there jordan you benzo addicted loving moron The problem is he's using the existence of hierarchies as justification for hierarchies. It's a bootlicking defense of the status quo. It's a tarted up version of "karma". You deserve your current station. If you're poor and miserable, well boy that's just how the hierarchy works! The strong and the rich they deserve to be strong and rich because they are strong and rich. Who the gently caress knows why he used lobsters. He could have literally just used people. If you gather a group of random people and give them some goals to achieve, they'll eventually self sort into some kind of hierarchy.
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Dec 29, 2021 06:13
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:I honestly don't think he does. The whole "well look at the animal kingdom to justify my hatred" thing is really loving stupid. Humans are on an entirely different level consciously than other animals. Our brains are much, much bigger (relative to our size) and more complex. We are not animals. We are even continually evolving from earlier humans.
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Dec 29, 2021 06:37
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Jorp thinks that the entwined snakes on the caduceus represent the helix structure of dna, which the ancients of course knew about because they were so great.
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Dec 29, 2021 06:41
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I have to ask, does he honestly think that?
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Dec 29, 2021 06:43
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It’s in one of his recorded lectures that he uploaded to youtube. It was posted in a previous jorp thread.
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Dec 29, 2021 06:44
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Mr Interweb posted:where he loses me is, why do we have to go as far back as something like lobsters? why not a more recent ancestor/relative like chimps or bonobos or whatever? or hell, even another arthropod that's more advanced than the lobster? these animals behave in all kinds of different manners that go completely against jorp's rightwing worldview, and would probably make for better examples since they're more recent/closer to humans than lobsters are. OK, the real answer is "Because those don't line up with my beliefs," but given that there are more recent hierarchical animals to work from, I'd guess that the logic is "This natural tendency is old, therefore it has more weight." He's extremely into Jungian nonsense, which tends to involve humans carrying the minds of their ancestors and being able to access great wisdom about the universe through that connection. Basically, Older = Betterer, for various reasons. Here is a heartwarming story of a man turning a grocery store lobster into a pet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sI7WveN7vk It is unrelated to Jordan Peterson but it's cute as hell. ETA: Pennywise the Frown posted:The whole "well look at the animal kingdom to justify my hatred" thing is really loving stupid. Humans are on an entirely different level consciously than other animals. Our brains are much, much bigger (relative to our size) and more complex. Eh, humans still have a lot of animal behaviour, and the more we learn about both human and animal cognition, the less of a difference there seems to be. Peterson's still risibly wrong about how human cognition works pretty much all the time, but we're not nearly as "superior" as we like to think. Puppy Time fucked around with this message at 06:51 on Dec 29, 2021 |
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Dec 29, 2021 06:46
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It’s 2 hours and 22 minutes into this lecture: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ifi5KkXig3s
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Dec 29, 2021 06:46
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:It’s in one of his recorded lectures that he uploaded to youtube. It was posted in a previous jorp thread. Jesus H. Christ.
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Dec 29, 2021 06:46
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Oh god I was logged in when I searched for that. The algorithm will take me.
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Dec 29, 2021 06:47
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Dec 29, 2021 06:48
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The Fattest PI posted:Oof he's gotta be careful biting the hand that feeds him benzos dont drool all over or fall asleep on it either
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Dec 29, 2021 06:52
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:Oh god I was logged in when I searched for that. The algorithm will take me. Just delete it from your history bro. Then watch a bunch of music videos or cute birds or something. Your feed will be right as rain. As right as Youtube ever is.
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Dec 29, 2021 06:53
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Puppy Time posted:OK, the real answer is "Because those don't line up with my beliefs," but given that there are more recent hierarchical animals to work from, I'd guess that the logic is "This natural tendency is old, therefore it has more weight." He's extremely into Jungian nonsense, which tends to involve humans carrying the minds of their ancestors and being able to access great wisdom about the universe through that connection. It ties a lot into the fascist ideal of restoring a glorious idyllic past that exists only in their imaginations. They're really into the whole general idea of 'lizard brain is right about everything', with predictable results given they have no common sense, no conscience and actively resent having to have self-control.
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Dec 29, 2021 06:56
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Mister Speaker posted:If you could elevate a lobster to understand books, it would probably laugh and call Jorp a stupid rear end in a top hat before it went back to the ocean floor to live the rest of its indefinite-but-decidedly-chill life. Scuttling across the dirty bedroom floors of silent seas.
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Dec 29, 2021 07:49
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Can I take a quick minute to say how much I hate Jung. Part of my "leadership" training at work involves doing this dumb rear end personality test "Insights training" to determine what color I am, and it's based off a bunch of bullshit from maybe-nazi Carl Jung. This amazing psychiatric personality test involved like 40 almost identical questions. Every single question was set up with answers as follows A. Aggressive/Assertive response B. Data oriented/Analytical response C. Caring response D. Social response So I answered the dumb rear end quiz, and then a few days later I was emailed a 20 page pdf that broke it down, and included long winded essays about what I'm really like. It's fuckin astrology level takes. Most of it is pretty general, and then there's poo poo that misses the mark and poo poo that hits the mark. I guess I'm just supposed to ignore the ones that are dogshit wrong. I'd include a snippet but it's on my work laptop and I don't give a poo poo. Then the idea is to know what color personality you are so you can better communicate with people. I'm pretty sure I don't need a fuckin hogwarts sorting hat to tell me what my poo poo personality is like. Then once you pass the course they mail you these expensive rear end foam colored lego bricks. You're supposed to orient them on your desk according to your personality color. Then other people who approach you will know what your color is and they'll know how to best effectively communicate with you. Instead of you know, just loving talking to the person and figuring it out in 10 seconds.
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Dec 29, 2021 08:00
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Lobsters, like, pee from their faces into the faces of other lobsters for fighting’ and lovin’ purposes and I thought of Jorp when I learned that from reading an entire book about the secret lives of lobsters.
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Dec 29, 2021 09:03
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The Fattest PI posted:Can I take a quick minute to say how much I hate Jung. Part of my "leadership" training at work involves doing this dumb rear end personality test "Insights training" to determine what color I am, and it's based off a bunch of bullshit from maybe-nazi Carl Jung. This amazing psychiatric personality test involved like 40 almost identical questions. Every single question was set up with answers as follows I'm pretty sure all this poo poo is for people to go 'Well I did all the correct things to interact with a Hufflepuff, so it must be your fault' Reminds me of what came up in another thread about people who self-identify as Empaths and how they are the worst
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Dec 29, 2021 09:16
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DominoKitten posted:Lobsters, like, pee from their faces into the faces of other lobsters for fighting’ and lovin’ purposes and I thought of Jorp when I learned that from reading an entire book about the secret lives of lobsters. I kinda wish I could piss on Jorp's face like a lobster.
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Dec 29, 2021 09:18
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Some of the sorting poo poo like Meyers-Briggs or Parachute Color or whatever are okay if you want to gain some personal insight, but ive never seen them applied well in an organizational setting. I consistently test as extrovert on those kinds of things, which anyone could guess from 10 seonds of interacting. Its resulted in my ending up on project teams with mostly introverts. So now ive got to do all the communicating on top of my share of the workload. Thankfully my current company is small and doesnt have time to waste on poo poo like this.
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Dec 29, 2021 09:55
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Poohs Packin posted:Meyers-Briggs lol
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Dec 29, 2021 09:56
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Poohs Packin posted:Some of the sorting poo poo like Meyers-Briggs or Parachute Color or whatever are okay if you want to gain some personal insight, but ive never seen them applied well in an organizational setting. None of them provide more insight than a "which friends character are you" test that was cobbled together by an algorithm.
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Dec 29, 2021 10:54
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Peggotty posted:None of them provide more insight than a "which friends character are you" test that was cobbled together by an algorithm. Lol Ok ROSS
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Dec 29, 2021 10:58
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People trying to build an identity from the letters of their MBTI results are woefully misguided. Taking the same psych test twice and getting different results helps open people up to ideas such as the psyche being something not set in stone which can change from year to year or day to day. And also the idea that maybe psych tests are hot bullshit when misapplied. Ghost Leviathan posted:It ties a lot into the fascist ideal of restoring a glorious idyllic past that exists only in their imaginations. When the historical reality is that the Spartans were an elitist gentry of murderers, rapists and pederasts whose hierarchy placed them atop a geopolitically unstable hellworld built and maintained by slaves, something which America desperately needs to be less like. Pennywise the Frown posted:Jesus H. Christ. The Sausages fucked around with this message at 15:13 on Dec 29, 2021 |
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Dec 29, 2021 15:05
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I once worked for a government organization that had/has thousands of employees. The whole of the organization was made to take some Myers-Briggs knock-off test so we could identify personality gaps in work groups and re-arrange accordingly. My group spent two days doing this. We were a bunch of engineering/science nerds and so all scored appropriately analytical, cynical, etc... Of course absolutely gently caress all was done with this information, since we couldn't just hire randos to fill in the creativity gaps without firing qualified people without cause, and there was no political will to rearrange work groups. Also work groups were organized by specific functions. Mechanical, electrical, vacuum, etc..., so did they think we'd hire some creative/emotive/communicative types and just slot them in? I don't know because after it was finished we never spoke of it again. Your tax dollars at work.
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Dec 29, 2021 15:21
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meyers briggs feels closer to tarot reading and astrological signs than it does something that should be taken super seriously by scientists. like yeah the results can be kinda true but people test differently depending on how they feel that day. sadly its about the best thing we've got because all our fancy computers and non crustacean based hierarchies can't figure out how the human mind works the way it does sorry guys im an rear end in a top hat because im an INTJ
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Dec 29, 2021 15:41
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Robo Reagan posted:meyers briggs feels closer to tarot reading and astrological signs than it does something that should be taken super seriously by scientists. That's because it is Also there's a real fascist feel to most of this poo poo like trying to arrange a heirarchy of servants and masters based on cranial measurements. Reminds me of the GI Joe comics having COBRA run along those lines according to a system designed by a literal cannibalistic serial killer.
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Dec 29, 2021 16:01
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Mr Interweb posted:as far as the lobster poo poo goes, i THINK i understand what jorp's trying to do, but someone can help correct me I think the lobster argument goes something like this: Lobsters are evolutionary ancient and haven’t changed much in millis of years Lobsters are simple and dumb as hell, and are nothing like people or mammals in most other ways If lobsters (who are old and dumb as hell) exhibit hierarchal behaviour, then you can make an argument that hierarchal behaviour is very old, and might be very widespread among unlike species as different as crustaceans If this sort of behaviour is very old and very widespread, then evolutionary speaking, it might be very adaptive to a wide variety of organisms for reasons If it is very adaptive, then it might be fundamental to our psychology, and it might be difficult to remove from our society. Therefore, I do declare, yadi yadi yada
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Dec 29, 2021 16:04
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I found it helpful because once you realize the test gives different results, its up to you to pick the qualities you hold in highest regard. There are other tools out there like "Strength cards" that serve the same purpose. It can be good to have those qualities you choose to be at the forefront of your mind when starting new projects, asking for a raise, or going through a rough patch. Myers Briggs gives a sort of catalogue of personal qualities one can choose to cultivate and they are all positive. But again, screw applying it in an organizational setting.
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Dec 29, 2021 16:05
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Robo Reagan posted:sadly its about the best thing we've got because all our fancy computers and non crustacean based hierarchies can't figure out how the human mind works the way it does Nah the best thing we've got is the Five Factor model, which at least has some empiricism behind it regarding unchanging personality aspects, and it's still super flawed. Turns out, the human mind? Very complicated and full of a lot of different stuff! Who knew?
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Dec 29, 2021 16:22
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It's a pretty good thing to be aware of your own strengths and weaknesses and being able to communicate them to others. For example, I had no idea I'm apparently extremely authoritative until my first employee review; my supervisor told me that after watching me at work. Knowing that was real helpful for any future resumes and job interviews. Of course, the way to actually achieve this is by having someone who knows the job assess you on an individual level, but bureaucracy being what it is, it's much simpler to outsource it to an outside company who claims to have cracked the code and do as good a job, while providing a glorified horoscope than it is to ensure supervisors and managers are actually good at their jobs.
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Dec 29, 2021 16:37
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when I took intro to psych courses in 2008 we were taught that stuff like Freud-Jung and MBTI were on the same axis of fun to learn about ideas but ultimately had no value in practice and I'm always surprised to find out some colleges teach those differently. My memory is that we were told the MMPI was useful though and I don't remember why that one was considered different. I guess because its has a specific end goal that would signal action for a doctor?
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Dec 29, 2021 16:40
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Don’t you share like 52% of your DNA with bananas too? Where’s our banana hierarchy social commentary, Jordan B. Peterson 
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Dec 29, 2021 16:41
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Michael B. Jordan B. Peterson
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Dec 29, 2021 16:48
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Rupert Buttermilk posted:Michael B. Jordan B. Petersons of Anarchy
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Dec 29, 2021 16:55
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