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PederP posted:The outcome of the war and the social perceptions towards veterans matters a great deal here. The efforts of the state, also beyond the financial aspects, are a reflection of this. If Russia is victorious and this war ushers in a new world order and expands the borders of the federation - these veterans will be viewed far differently than if the war ends in a humiliating collapse. The veterans will have much the same trauma and proportion of awakened monsters in either case, but how they integrate back into society differ greatly in these two scenarios. Humans can to some degree repress the monstrous aspect, remold memories and lie to themselves and their closest family. And much as this applies to Russia, it applies to Ukraine. A great victory and the veterans will be viewed as heroes. A bitter defeat and they may find the return to normalcy without proper recognition of their sacrifices. Pretty sure Ukraine's soldiers will be regarded as heroes and protectors regardless of the outcome. Russia is another story
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# ? Jul 24, 2022 14:49 |
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# ? Jun 28, 2024 14:10 |
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Would just be such a crying shame if the plane carrying Lavrov on his "diplomatic mission" to Egypt got popped by an unidentified assailant. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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# ? Jul 24, 2022 14:52 |
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MassiveSky posted:Would just be such a crying shame if the plane carrying Lavrov on his "diplomatic mission" to Egypt got popped by an unidentified assailant. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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# ? Jul 24, 2022 14:56 |
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mobby_6kl posted:You mean if it got shot down by a We'll open and conclude an investigation in ten minutes claiming that Assad did it.
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# ? Jul 24, 2022 14:57 |
Meiers Goldbrick posted:Insightful post that ends with “shouldn’t have worn that dress.” Your point?
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# ? Jul 24, 2022 15:23 |
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Here's the details on the cover story Russia has finally come up with https://twitter.com/mercoglianos/status/1551204103631638528?s=20&t=uIh3a6loCXTda5JwpcEr_g quote:Russian forces have destroyed a Ukrainian warship and U.S.-supplied Harpoon anti-ship missiles in the Ukrainian port of Odesa, Russian news agencies quoted the defense ministry as saying on Sunday. Ignore that the video showed nothing useful hit, nor any secondary explosions like we've seen when Russian missile stockpiles have been ka-boomed. So they lied yesterday, which everyone knew, but lying directly to the two guarantors on the agreement was A Choice. Almost like they expect there would be no consequences.
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# ? Jul 24, 2022 15:30 |
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They did hit a ship... apparently an oil/gas survey vessel.
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# ? Jul 24, 2022 15:31 |
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bad_fmr posted:
Dorcs. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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# ? Jul 24, 2022 15:37 |
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https://twitter.com/GirkinGirkin/status/1551213431096852480?t=CLest6AFNepw1EJkf-eNTQ&s=19 Russian S-300 battery destroyed in Kherson region
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# ? Jul 24, 2022 15:53 |
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MassiveSky posted:Would just be such a crying shame if the plane carrying Lavrov on his "diplomatic mission" to Egypt got popped by an unidentified assailant. Assassinating dignitaries usually leads to peace
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# ? Jul 24, 2022 16:07 |
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Meiers Goldbrick posted:Insightful post that ends with “shouldn’t have worn that dress.” I feel like this is taking things too far. I'm sure this war wouldn't have happened without 2014. It was a response to Ukraine's actions to no longer be in Russia's orbit. Things like Crimea were very non-pressing issues before that. FishBulbia fucked around with this message at 16:15 on Jul 24, 2022 |
# ? Jul 24, 2022 16:11 |
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https://twitter.com/mschwirtz/status/1551099294081597445 I'm about halfway into this. It's pretty good. I'd post the text but there's a ton of embedded links and gifs and whatnot.
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# ? Jul 24, 2022 16:14 |
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FishBulbia posted:I feel like this is taking things too far. I'm sure this war wouldn't have happened without 2014. It was a response to Ukraine's actions to no longer be in Russia's orbit. Things like Crimea were very no-issue issues before that. And that decision to leave Russia's orbit was caused by Kremlin having their puppet President abandon the policy of making deals with EU and Russia both. 2014 would not have happened if the pending Ukraine-EU deal had not been abandoned all of a sudden. You can't fixate on a single link in the chain of events. The EU wanted Ukraine (and Russia) as a partner. Ukraine wanted Russia and the EU as partners. Putin wanted Ukraine for himself. That's actual root cause: insane nationalist ideas by an old man with megalomanic ambitions. The single biggest factor in driving Ukraine away from Russia has been Putin. Not the west. Not Ukraine itself. Even after 2014, many Ukrainians wanted to remain fully or partially tied to Russia. All of this circles back to Putin and his ilk.
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# ? Jul 24, 2022 16:20 |
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PederP posted:And that decision to leave Russia's orbit was caused by Kremlin having their puppet President abandon the policy of making deals with EU and Russia both. 2014 would not have happened if the pending Ukraine-EU deal had not been abandoned all of a sudden. You can't fixate on a single link in the chain of events. The EU wanted Ukraine (and Russia) as a partner. Ukraine wanted Russia and the EU as partners. Putin wanted Ukraine for himself. That's actual root cause: insane nationalist ideas by an old man with megalomanic ambitions. The single biggest factor in driving Ukraine away from Russia has been Putin. Not the west. Not Ukraine itself. Even after 2014, many Ukrainians wanted to remain fully or partially tied to Russia. All of this circles back to Putin and his ilk. Sure, I mean there is a reason why there was significant popular support for an EU alignment despite cultural ties with Russia, and Russia is responsible for this whole thing, but Ukraine wasn't a random target of opportunity, it was a country that had a revolution and tried to chart a new future for itself, a future which clashed with Russia's conception of Ukraine's position in its orbit. Saying that isn't victim blaming.
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# ? Jul 24, 2022 16:27 |
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Semantics wins again!
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# ? Jul 24, 2022 16:45 |
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mutata posted:Semantics wins again! Just think its a little uncalled for to compare someone saying that to rape apologia
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# ? Jul 24, 2022 16:48 |
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PederP posted:The outcome of the war and the social perceptions towards veterans matters a great deal here. The efforts of the state, also beyond the financial aspects, are a reflection of this. If Russia is victorious and this war ushers in a new world order and expands the borders of the federation - these veterans will be viewed far differently than if the war ends in a humiliating collapse. The veterans will have much the same trauma and proportion of awakened monsters in either case, but how they integrate back into society differ greatly in these two scenarios. Humans can to some degree repress the monstrous aspect, remold memories and lie to themselves and their closest family. And much as this applies to Russia, it applies to Ukraine. A great victory and the veterans will be viewed as heroes. A bitter defeat and they may find the return to normalcy without proper recognition of their sacrifices. All of this + the effects on civilians as well, especially children. A decade or so ago my home city had a very small but very visible population of young Chechens, who had probably been born either between the First and Second Chechen war on in the middle of the Second one. Seeing the haunted, rage-filled eyes of a Chechen teenage boy is something that sticks with you forever.
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# ? Jul 24, 2022 17:16 |
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cinci zoo sniper posted:Your point? Well intended insightful points can be used to victim blame. Implying that this wouldn’t have happened if Ukraine just behaved and not tried to build alliances that could protect them from the current predation. My point was “don’t victim blame”. Victim blaming became baked into language so sometimes it accidental slips in. I might be projecting because a whole lot of “I support Ukraine but you just have to remember what happened 400 years ago and that’s why people are stealing washing machines” talk happens on and off the internet. It’s frustrating. Sorry, I’ll get off my internet soapbox and go back to lurking.
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# ? Jul 24, 2022 17:24 |
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Speaking to my family in, and around, Kiev on a regular basis now. No jobs, no pay, food is getting scarce. They haven't paid rent in 5 months, and the bank is allowing people to go into debt too. I am able to send money through western union, but once it hits their bank accounts it just goes against their debts rather than be something they can use. Has anyone been able to send any packages to Ukraine? The USPS says it's still accepting packages bound of Ukraine, but there are no guarantees.
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# ? Jul 24, 2022 17:28 |
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Sundays are quiet, but here's some stuff I found interesting Russian propaganda check in - https://twitter.com/francis_scarr/status/1551212708825075712?s=20&t=-yA3bzmQk4b7mfXmsyZ_CA Behind the lines infrastructure hits on Russian-controlled areas continue https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1551147303695798272?s=20&t=-yA3bzmQk4b7mfXmsyZ_CA https://twitter.com/loogunda/status/1551097294073737218?s=20&t=-yA3bzmQk4b7mfXmsyZ_CA I'm not sure this is how bridges are supposed to get fixed, but I'm not a structural engineer https://twitter.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1551113884676886528?s=20&t=-yA3bzmQk4b7mfXmsyZ_CA Ukrainian air force status: not dead yet https://twitter.com/WarMonitor3/status/1551163479113039872?s=20&t=-yA3bzmQk4b7mfXmsyZ_CA Strange sparks falling over Donetsk city last night appear to have been from Russian incendiary grads, which have also seen use by Russia in Syria - noted in the comments of this tweet https://twitter.com/obretix/status/1551167874651357185?s=20&t=-yA3bzmQk4b7mfXmsyZ_CA Germany doing the thing again https://twitter.com/SamRamani2/status/1550921211756036096?s=20&t=-yA3bzmQk4b7mfXmsyZ_CA New Michael Kofman analysis https://twitter.com/StratcomCentre/status/1551054573426679809?s=20&t=-yA3bzmQk4b7mfXmsyZ_CA Selections: quote:“Russia still has quite a bit of equipment in storage. That's true. But it's a considerable step down in terms of quality and technological level compared to what they began the war with. The attrition issue is significant. I think it's fair to say that, in key categories, they've lost 30 percent of the active armored force,” Kofman said.
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# ? Jul 24, 2022 17:31 |
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FishBulbia posted:Assassinating dignitaries usually leads to peace Point of order here, Franz Ferdinand was a little bit more important than the Russian foreign minister. I know it’s hard to imagine these days, but he was heir to the nearly absolute throne of the Austria-Hungarian Empire, while the current Emperor was in his late 70s. So Franz Ferdinand’s assassination was literally the assassination of the near future head of state for the Habsburg Empire. With that said, while the Russian Foreign Minister may be considered a legitimate target by Ukraine, the International Criminal Court disagrees. Furthermore, such assassinations aren’t just terrible foreign policy for a country like the United States, it would actually violate federal law in the form of the still active Executive Order 11905.
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# ? Jul 24, 2022 17:45 |
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Speaking of Lavrov - he made an interesting comment during his meeting in Cairo today https://twitter.com/shakirov2036/status/1551243647290671108?s=20&t=-yA3bzmQk4b7mfXmsyZ_CA Machine translated First article, from 19 April quote:“We are not going to change the regime in Ukraine, we have talked about this many times. We want Ukrainians to decide how they want to live on. We want people to have freedom of choice,” he said. Latest comments from today 24 July quote:The minister said that the Russian Federation "is sorry for the Ukrainian people," who deserves "much better." More of his comments from today, from another TASS article -https://tass.ru/ekonomika/15296713?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US quote:“We have no prejudice against resuming negotiations on a wider range of issues [with Ukraine], but it is not up to us, because the Ukrainian authorities, from the president to his numerous advisers, say that no negotiations not until Ukraine defeats Russia on the battlefield," he said," Lavrov added.
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# ? Jul 24, 2022 17:54 |
Meiers Goldbrick posted:Well intended insightful points can be used to victim blame. Implying that this wouldn’t have happened if Ukraine just behaved and not tried to build alliances that could protect them from the current predation. I see, thank you for clarifying – and don't condemn yourself to lurking, if you want to post. For what it's worth, I don't think you and Antigravitas have a disagreement over whether if Ukraine is to blame here for anything. All that Antigravitas says in the post you responded to me seems to be: 1) Russia's attitude to the world is a problem for Russia to solve on its own, and they should be kept at a stretched hand's distance until they do that. 2) Ukraine has been brought to the precipice of ruin by the war, and EU has an obligation of civil intervention to arm Ukraine with instruments for staving off the potential fall. 3) Ukraine may experience political turmoil when their European aspirations receive a reality check from European politicians saying “not so fast”, who are hesitant to admit Ukraine before rule-of-law and veto deadlock concerns are addressed. That check may arrive even after Ukraine has proven to the Commission that it fulfils all statutory requirements for becoming an EU member state. It would be a colossal fuckup on the EU's end, if this check ends up with Ukraine spinning out of EU's orbit.
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# ? Jul 24, 2022 17:56 |
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KitConstantine posted:Strange sparks falling over Donetsk city last night appear to have been from Russian incendiary grads, which have also seen use by Russia in Syria - noted in the comments of this tweet the 9M22S is 50 year old tech, so in theory Ukraine should have them too. I've only ever seen footage of Russia using it, though. Maybe someone set the fuzes wrong and they went off early?
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# ? Jul 24, 2022 18:08 |
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KitConstantine posted:
Certainly not. Russia has been doing a stellar job of it all by themselves.
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# ? Jul 24, 2022 18:11 |
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Nenonen posted:I personally have stopped using the word 'Ukrainian', I call them the Rohirrim now. There are no Poles to me either, those guys are dwarves. Yeah, Poland being Rohirrim would be Clancychat.
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# ? Jul 24, 2022 18:36 |
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spacetoaster posted:Speaking to my family in, and around, Kiev on a regular basis now. No jobs, no pay, food is getting scarce. They haven't paid rent in 5 months, and the bank is allowing people to go into debt too. Yeah, though the military situation has somewhat improved it seems economic stuff is starting to compound itself, outside from the people I know in the south, i've been keeping track with the puzata hata menues they do have mountain dew though now
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# ? Jul 24, 2022 18:48 |
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KitConstantine posted:Strange sparks falling over Donetsk city last night appear to have been from Russian incendiary grads, which have also seen use by Russia in Syria - noted in the comments of this tweet https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGJuMBdaqIw Flavahbeast posted:the 9M22S is 50 year old tech, so in theory Ukraine should have them too. I've only ever seen footage of Russia using it, though. Maybe someone set the fuzes wrong and they went off early? Bursting high in the air is optimal for battlefield illumination. Perhaps if Ukrainians were using smallish undetectable drones that only have daylight camera then using illumination shells allows them to find targets for HIMARS at night. But any guess is as good as mine.
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# ? Jul 24, 2022 18:55 |
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https://opinions.glavred.info/most-...i-10394258.html Interesting blog post from advisor to minister of defense of Ukraine about how Ramstein meeting work and evolve. He feels Ramstein has the potential to become a working mechanism to respond to cryses such as Russo-Ukranian war when the UN (lol) fails and is outside of NATO framework technically
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# ? Jul 24, 2022 19:36 |
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Interesting thread on the thermite over Donetsk City. https://twitter.com/ChrisO_wiki/status/1551181711706316801
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# ? Jul 24, 2022 19:55 |
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Atreiden posted:Interesting thread on the thermite over Donetsk City. https://twitter.com/ChrisO_wiki/status/1551181730811416576 This is wrong. This is far far from the first time this has happened since 2014. Thee west side of Donetsk city literally is the front line
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# ? Jul 24, 2022 20:18 |
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FishBulbia posted:This is wrong. This is far far from the first time this has happened since 2014. Thee west side of Donetsk city literally is the front line For what it's worth, he does mention later down that Ukraine have used them at least once in 2014.
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# ? Jul 24, 2022 20:54 |
KitConstantine posted:Germany doing the thing again Probably to ensure that the gas keeps flowing. At this point it all makes sense - Scholz and Putin (or their respective emissaries) have an agreement that Germany will not greenlight the export of certain weapon systems for which Russia will keep supply enough natural gas so that the House of Cards Scholz built with the Uniper bailout and the continued shielding of the German consumer from extrem gas price hikes, which would be necessary to get the required savings in consumption. There simply is no other explenation given that these are systems directly delivered by the industry, which the Bundeswehr doesn't even use.
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# ? Jul 24, 2022 21:08 |
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A few pages back we were talking about how frequently Russia would need to repair their artillery barrels to avoid losing too much accuracy. Turns out if you just don't repair them, their inaccuracy becomes infinite https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status/1551294834027249664
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# ? Jul 24, 2022 21:12 |
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GaussianCopula posted:Probably to ensure that the gas keeps flowing. At this point it all makes sense - Scholz and Putin (or their respective emissaries) have an agreement that Germany will not greenlight the export of certain weapon systems for which Russia will keep supply enough natural gas so that the House of Cards Scholz built with the Uniper bailout and the continued shielding of the German consumer from extrem gas price hikes, which would be necessary to get the required savings in consumption. The funniest thing is Germans in this thread who are genuinly upset "why are you so drat focused on us sucking Russia's dick! All this noise, Ukraine thingie doesn't let us please them well. Can't we just do it in peace which is our contractual obligation!" (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) Sekenr fucked around with this message at 22:51 on Jul 24, 2022 |
# ? Jul 24, 2022 22:33 |
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Sekenr posted:The funniest thing is Germans in this thread who are genuinly upset "why are you so drat focused on us sucking Russia's dick! All this noise, Ukraine thingie doesn't let us please them well. Can't we just do it in peace which is our contractual obligation!" To be real, who wouldn't be focused on Germany sucking Russia's dick? The sheer bizzareness of it alone! (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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# ? Jul 24, 2022 23:26 |
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Meiers Goldbrick posted:Insightful post that ends with “shouldn’t have worn that dress.” Herblock had this covered.
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# ? Jul 24, 2022 23:32 |
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Yureina posted:To be real, who wouldn't be focused on Germany sucking Russia's dick? The sheer bizzareness of it alone! Historically it’s not unprecedented when it comes to European invasions
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# ? Jul 24, 2022 23:38 |
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Looks fine to me (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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# ? Jul 25, 2022 01:10 |
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# ? Jun 28, 2024 14:10 |
Thread rules updated.cinci zoo sniper posted:Thread moderation update 8 cinci zoo sniper fucked around with this message at 02:05 on Jul 25, 2022 |
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# ? Jul 25, 2022 01:26 |