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I'm cruising through this with my cheap-rear end mouse and keyboard and have no access to gatling guns or any experience even playing a game like this. I don't get it, it's easy to shoot poo poo in space with this thing. 
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Jun 6, 2014 04:51
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Renaissance Spam posted:My hope is they go somewhere along these lines; I like gimballed weapons but I think more powerful fixed weapons have their place, trading expediency for stopping power. This exactly. Gimbals are useful for shooting same size or smaller, but if your expected target is larger then you just want damage output. I think the gimbal articulation range varies by location though. The wing guns on the 300i for example don't seem to be able to shoot as wide or high relative to the longitudinal axis as the nose gun is able to. Equilibrium posted:I don't understand your type, how did you get so attached to this dumb game that billed itself as "you will need a $1200 PC from the future to play this" to the point that you spent $100 on pay2win virtual spaceships, but somehow also think "you should probably invest in a $40 peripheral to play this in a fun way" is an unreasonable demand. This is like nerds with too much money and no sense complaining about the mouse/keyboard controls in the PC port of Dark Souls, buy a gamepad already it's the year 2014 what the hell's wrong with you. Those controls were awful in a way that was actively malicious  Dark_Swordmaster posted:Downloaded and installed the launcher over lunch and left it to download while I went back to work. Here I am at home and it was still "patching" and never stopped. I killed it and restarted it and it said the metadata was hosed and it asked me to repair. I've clicked repair and it's sitting here doing nothing and has been doing nothing for roughly an hour. The gently caress is going on? I had this exact issue, installer can't recover without a wipe. Uninstall, start with a fresh  E: re controller chat, I suspect that a big part of the input lagginess seen at least for the mouse is tied to system performance. My controls start out pretty smooth but get a lot more stutters when the gfx load is high (lasers, ships, etcetera). Something to do with mouse polling and the ifcs calculations happening on the same tick as the graphics output... Which would be dumb but a not unsurprising issue in an alpha build. Kalenn Istarion fucked around with this message at 06:02 on Jun 6, 2014 |
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Jun 6, 2014 06:00
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Equilibrium posted:Of course War Thunder is easy to "control", in so far as literal point-and-click autopilot can be called control. I'm sorry to hear that you made the mistake of playing MWO at some point. Were you one of those people who spent $50 on an alpha of a game expressly marketed towards the 'brutally difficult HARDCORE SPACE SIM' crowd because that would be another to add to your list. You might as well have bought into Arma 3 early access and complained that the game didn't have gamepad support. Please tell me which Chris Roberts games is a BRUTAL HARDCORE space sim with Newtonian physics? We all want to fly stuff like in X-Wing/Tie Fighter/Wing Commander. Heck when Wing Commander originally came out most people played with just the keyboard. No mouse or joystick, hell Freelancer worked best with a mouse. I guess what I am saying is that you are a vocal minority that wants the game to be so hard that it will drive away 90% of the people that want to play the game. Why do you think there has been gently caress all space sims for the last decade? They did not appeal to anyone but a small minority of gamers. Sure SC is up to 40+ million but that is barley going to cover development of a game this big if it even does. So how do you actually make money then? Make it accessible to the masses. You seem really angry about all of this and maybe you should step away for a bit a chill out. Just because you have an opinion does not mean that it is right. An trying to force it down everyone's throat is not doing you and favors.
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Jun 6, 2014 06:12
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Harabeck posted:I'm convinced the control problems come solely from IFCS. If they would let us have a decoupled mode that didn't try to keep you on the original vector, then my 300i at least would be a pretty sweet ride. With COMSTAB and G safety off, I managed to maneuver pretty effectively by decoupling for any major course change and then coupling to start moving in my new vector. The only problem is that the nose jumps a bit when you switch IFCS back on. They did hold control press tab. Please read Key binds.
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Jun 6, 2014 06:21
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Raged posted:Sure SC is up to 40+ million but that is barley going to cover development of a game this big if it even does. So how do you actually make money then? Make it accessible to the masses. I'm in the pro-casual crowd, but $40 loving million is enough to fund development of this game with enough money left over for CR to live out the rest of his days in a Caterpillar-shaped mansion in the Caribbean.
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Jun 6, 2014 06:49
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The future of gaming is behind us. #getyourrearingear
Doink9731 fucked around with this message at 07:33 on Jun 6, 2014 |
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Jun 6, 2014 07:30
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Typical Pubbie posted:I'm in the pro-casual crowd, but $40 loving million is enough to fund development of this game with enough money left over for CR to live out the rest of his days in a Caterpillar-shaped mansion in the Caribbean. 40 million for an AAA game like this isn't that much you know.
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Jun 6, 2014 09:26
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Doink9731 posted:The future of gaming is behind us. #getyourrearingear  Bing buys Oculus.
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Jun 6, 2014 09:34
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Black Dynamite posted:I'm cruising through this with my cheap-rear end mouse and keyboard and have no access to gatling guns or any experience even playing a game like this. I don't get it, it's easy to shoot poo poo in space with this thing. Small fighters work best with controllers now.
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Jun 6, 2014 10:20
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Alright, so if I want to go full sperg and pick up another peripheral, what would you guys recommend? I think the decision seems to be narrowed down between the cheap logitech joystick or the 360 controller. The controller's nice because I could use it for some other games, but it's not that big of a deal if the joystick is that much better.
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Jun 6, 2014 10:34
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Doctor Shapes posted:Alright, so if I want to go full sperg and pick up another peripheral, what would you guys recommend? I think the decision seems to be narrowed down between the cheap logitech joystick or the 360 controller. The controller's nice because I could use it for some other games, but it's not that big of a deal if the joystick is that much better. I am very biased but I think a joystick is the way to go, and there is a sale on the T16000, I haven't used it myself but it's goon approved. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3550928&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=48#post430327709 http://www.microcenter.com/product/353242/T16000M_Flight_Stick_Joystick also apparently uses hall sensors instead of pots, which is super good.
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Jun 6, 2014 10:51
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Doctor Shapes posted:Alright, so if I want to go full sperg and pick up another peripheral, what would you guys recommend? I think the decision seems to be narrowed down between the cheap logitech joystick or the 360 controller. The controller's nice because I could use it for some other games, but it's not that big of a deal if the joystick is that much better. Get 360 now, buy x55 when full beta with bigger ships releases.
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Jun 6, 2014 11:32
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How do you get full thrust control in decoupled mode? Someone said hit Ctrl Tab but looking in the control maps thats something about head look?
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Jun 6, 2014 11:43
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Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I'm new to the whole flight sim thing. The last time I used a joystick was mechwarrior 4.Dr.Tree posted:Hell yeah man, either you go all in with gaming or you don't go at all.
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Jun 6, 2014 12:10
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CLAM DOWN posted:So I tried this with my new $25 Logitech joystick and it's so much loving better than keyboard/mouse, jesus.
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Jun 6, 2014 12:49
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Those $30 Logitech sticks Ive been told are almost the best way to go, they give you the feel you want and cost next to nothing. I take it you lot also recommend one?
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Jun 6, 2014 13:12
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The Logitech stick is good because it's very cheap and works well enough for most games. It's also a good buy because you don't want to drop a ton of cash on a stick only to find out that you don't like them/never really use them.
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Jun 6, 2014 13:16
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I also use a Thrustmaster T.Flight Hotas X , but as soon as I plug it in AC becomes wonky, stutters like crazy and load times decuplicate. It makes it utterly unplayable. Knowing full well that even if it worked I wouldn't know which button does what, I just let it go and wait for a patch that will enable control remapping... but playing with K/M feels awkward since I played a lot of X3 with the joystick. If anybody has made an .xml for the T.flight Hotas , please share it , I'd love to try again.
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Jun 6, 2014 13:25
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Execute posted:Those $30 Logitech sticks Ive been told are almost the best way to go, they give you the feel you want and cost next to nothing. I take it you lot also recommend one? Yes, mainly because they are cheap.
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Jun 6, 2014 13:35
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TorakFade posted:
hah! I tried to mutate the Warthog .xml to work with the T.flight and it didn't do what I want. The t.flight will work a little if you open console and type pp_rebindKeys (return) -it resets something to a default something and makes it flyable with weapon 1 on the trigger and flares on button 5, but everything else is poo poo. I'm back to my mouse, which is so easy it feels like god mode
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Jun 6, 2014 14:05
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Execute posted:They did hold control press tab. Please read Key binds. What are you talking about? Ctrl-Tab doesn't do anything. Tab is head look. Did you mean Ctrl-Caps Lock? Because turning off of G safety and COMSTAB doesn't give you what I was talking about, IFCS still tries to fly you like a plane.
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Jun 6, 2014 14:07
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Logitech needs to do a real good Hotas.. I'm sticking with my MSFF2 til it happens. So far, mouse seems to have the upper edge ingame. Plix fix..
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Jun 6, 2014 14:10
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Man, you would think with a week of "polishing" someone in CIG would have gone "hey guys let's make a quick way for people to map controls, since it's all XML based". Guess not. Couple fun things: Via Reddit: quote:Haven't seen this posted yet and it was bugging the heck out of me, so I spent a while figuring this out. Finally got a lock on it:   Read these posts for information on how to rebind your commands. Explanation on why everything is Class 2 now: quote:The weapons are no longer Class 1, they're all Class 2 - in playtesting a fixed gun less powerful than the ones the Vanduul carry were basically useless. Those plasma cannons alone on the Scythe can destroy your shields in 1-2 hits, and yet the game isn't unplayable because it's REALLY hard to hit with only Class 1's at the speeds and maneuverabilities seen in this game. This is also why the gimballed weapons auto-compensate for velocity (they DON'T auto aim - you still have to aim right at the target, the weapons just try to compensate for target velocity based on their own projectile velocity, which is the only reason you can aim more than one gun type at once). We are working on finding the best system for the ITTS still. Follow the DFM Programming thread in the Ask a Dev subforum. They're providing a lot of info.
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Jun 6, 2014 14:13
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Raged posted:We all want to fly stuff like in X-Wing/Tie Fighter/Wing Commander. Not all of us do. I have to say that I really enjoy the flight model in this, and I honestly believe it's pretty well implemented. I spent several hours last night with comstab and gsafe off, rocketing around the maps in a 300i in free flight mode playing chicken with asteroids and debris with the afterburner on full tilt. Pulling fun sideslip turns around larger asteroids while still having to navigate around smaller stuff simultaneously, and learning to use decoupled mode to pull 90/180 turns. And uh... blacking out some. I daresay I had more fun than swarm mode has provided. Yes, I'm using a HOTAS (and pedals - manually rebinding things wasn't all that hard, but well worth it), and no I haven't tried the mouse controls that some are complaining about, but I'd be willing to bet that if you haven't turned it off comstab is ruining most of it, and gsafe is ruining the rest. Try it without those turned on, and see if it improves for you. I'm definitely on the "mouse controls should definitely not outperform stick controls" side of the fence. I've played War Thunder, and I stopped playing almost immediately after realizing the reason I was only able to get a kill or maybe two a match was because the guys with 9 kills were using a mouse, and effectively playing a different game, where they didn't actually have to fly a plane at all. If War Thunder's point and click interface was implemented here, joysticks would be a thing of the past very quickly. Only fools would use them, and I think that's a bad thing. Mouse controls exist. They may not be superior to a stick setup, but they exist, and therefore nobody is going to be driven away from the game based on control preferences alone. Mouse/keyboard can be used, and I'm willing to bet people will get good at it. Not only that, but this game is going to be more than just dogfighting (eventually, probably), unlike War Thunder, so if you find dogfighting difficult, run in a pack with other goons when you want to shot mans, and do cargo runs, salvage, exploration, boarding/FPS, or some other non-dogfighty activity where the mouse controls aren't going to somehow hinder you. Or buy a joystick or gamepad. The T16000 is good (I use one for left stick in some games), and there have been several other good, cheap options suggested. Personaly, I'd recommend getting a wired 360 controller if anyone playing this does not have one. There are many games that are better off played with a gamepad, so it's generally worth having.
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Jun 6, 2014 14:26
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Above poster is stupid for playing Cartoon mode in War Thunder with a stick.
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Jun 6, 2014 14:33
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G-Safe and COMSTAB should probably be disabled by default, instead of the other way around. Or at least have their influence tuned down, some. The difference in flying with them on and off is night and day, and they change the flight model from meh to pretty good, which for first impressions in the game seems like a big deal.
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Jun 6, 2014 14:39
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Octopode posted:G-Safe and COMSTAB should probably be disabled by default, instead of the other way around. Or at least have their influence tuned down, some. The difference in flying with them on and off is night and day, and they change the flight model from meh to pretty good, which for first impressions in the game seems like a big deal. I think theres something pretty fundamentally wrong with the IFCS in coupled mode though. The way it's so stop start jerky when decoupled is so smooth. As it stands coupled mode is a really unrealistic way to fly. IFCS tries to find a realistic solution to an unrealistic problem, and it leads to the kind of herky jerky nonsense handling you see which has no reason to exist.
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Jun 6, 2014 14:44
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Av027 posted:Not all of us do. I have to say that I really enjoy the flight model in this, and I honestly believe it's pretty well implemented. I spent several hours last night with comstab and gsafe off, rocketing around the maps in a 300i in free flight mode playing chicken with asteroids and debris with the afterburner on full tilt. Pulling fun sideslip turns around larger asteroids while still having to navigate around smaller stuff simultaneously, and learning to use decoupled mode to pull 90/180 turns. And uh... blacking out some. I daresay I had more fun than swarm mode has provided. So you have not tried mouse control, but you're willing to pontificate on the subject anyway?  The actual problem has nothing to do with gsafe/comstab. The problem is the size of the deadzone and the turn rates outside the deadzone. It makes over-correcting as you line up your target pretty much guaranteed. The IFCS sis a problem too, but that should be a problem equally for all input devices. This isn't War Thunder. Arena Commander's flight model has already made it clear. The reason the mouse is so good in War Thunder arcade actually has very little to do with the mouse, and is actually from the flight model used along with many other factors; it is the combination if these things that makes the mouse preferable, but not required. War Thunder Arcade does precisely what it was meant to do: Make the game easy to play for everybody. Which is why War Thunder is incredibly popular. Flight Sim spergs have their own mode in War Thunder to play in: Real Battles. The existence of mouse input does not automatically make using a mouse superior to a joystick. Demanding that the joystick be considered a protected class to ensure your favorite control method is the best is selfish. Telling people to STFU and buy a joystick idotic. The developers will make every effort to make the popular input devices the best they can be; for the enjoyment of all. Of course Mouse Aim with gimballed guns could be a problem, but there are many possible solutions; we can't even rebind our controls yet. So fears that joysticks are getting a raw deal is premature at best.
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Jun 6, 2014 14:49
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ShineDog posted:I think theres something pretty fundamentally wrong with the IFCS in coupled mode though. The way it's so stop start jerky when decoupled is so smooth. As it stands coupled mode is a really unrealistic way to fly. IFCS tries to find a realistic solution to an unrealistic problem, and it leads to the kind of herky jerky nonsense handling you see which has no reason to exist. Speaking personally, I haven't experienced the jerkiness I've seen other people reporting, which almost makes me want to say it's a bug--but it may also just be people being more sensitive to the flight model than I am. Nevertheless, dev posts over the last few days have intimated they're still tweaking and changing some of the IFCS behavior to make things like strafing in coupled mode possible, which means discussions at this point could be a moot point.
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Jun 6, 2014 14:52
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Octopode posted:Speaking personally, I haven't experienced the jerkiness I've seen other people reporting, which almost makes me want to say it's a bug--but it may also just be people being more sensitive to the flight model than I am. Get in the Aurora, it seems to get it the worst. get up to speed, haul up and yaw right as far as you can. Do this a few times. Similarly, do a big, hard, rolling turn. Stop the turn. Watch as the ship bounces around as IFCS tries horribly to sort your heading out.
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Jun 6, 2014 14:58
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Octopode posted:Nevertheless, dev posts over the last few days have intimated they're still tweaking and changing some of the IFCS behavior to make things like strafing in coupled mode possible, which means discussions at this point could be a moot point. Really? Strafing in coupled mode will change dogfights in a big, big way.
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Jun 6, 2014 15:00
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BitBasher posted:Really? Strafing in coupled mode will change dogfights in a big, big way. Yeah, Huntokar acknowledged that it would probably change things up significantly, which is why it has to be evaluated for impact before the change gets made. But they're at least investigating it.
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Jun 6, 2014 15:02
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Octopode posted:Yeah, Huntokar acknowledged that it would probably change things up significantly, which is why it has to be evaluated for impact before the change gets made. But they're at least investigating it. As it stands this is the only space game I can recall in the last decade that doesn't allow that. It feels kind of wrong not to have it.
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Jun 6, 2014 15:04
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BitBasher posted:As it stands this is the only space game I can recall in the last decade that doesn't allow that. It feels kind of wrong not to have it. Yeah, first thing I did after getting into free flight was tap the strafe keys to see how powerful strafing was and nothing happened. It took me a minute to realize I could only strafe decoupled and it seemed odd to me. I hope they let us strafe in coupled mode! I also hope they allow us to adjust trajectory in decoupled mode by strafing or firing engines/afterburner. If they keep the cap on the max speed that's perfectly fine, the low max speeds are fundamental to the type of game they are trying to make and I appreciate that (plus no one wants spaceship jousting like in Evochron, you might think you do but you dooooooooooooon't). I just would like to be able to alter my direction without having to toggle coupled mode back on.
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Jun 6, 2014 15:12
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I've gotten better at MKB flying by always hitting Ctrl+F, almost always leaving ComStab off, toggling G-Force off to haul rear end or evade, and toggling the poo poo out of Coupled mode to play turret in space. The controls are still dog poo poo though. If I could cross out enemies with a space marker then this setup would be ideal. Coldstone Cream-my-pants fucked around with this message at 15:20 on Jun 6, 2014 |
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Jun 6, 2014 15:17
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The Royal Scrub posted:I've gotten better at MKB flying by always hitting Ctrl+F, almost always leaving ComStab off, toggling G-Force off to haul rear end or evade, and toggling the poo poo out of Coupled mode to play turret in space. I really hate the ctrl-F mode. Having to work your mouse so hard really makes even simple turns a chore. If they'd just adjust the accel curves on the default mode it wouldn't be so easy to over-correct.
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Jun 6, 2014 15:25
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Parias posted:Are you saying Goonrathi War isn't canon? I'll have to re-render the whole thing! Please do another one of these!
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Jun 6, 2014 15:25
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warcrimes posted:Antonio, this is either low effort trolling or you've been so jaded by WoT you see price-gauging everywhere. CIG has passed on several opportunities to make extra money(and a lot of it) and every ship available now(and the limited, not currently available ships), except one, will be buyable with in-game credits after the game launches. CIG is drowning in cash, yet they keep figuring out new ways to charge people, what are you talking about? Anyway. Asking money for a boxed game and then asking some more via microtransactions is EA degree of scummy cow milking. Knock it off with the catchphrases. Calling this business model offensive and anti-consumer is neither trolling nor low effort. Also who the gently caress is antonio and why should I care about the stupid tank game which, as it happens, did not ask money from its players during alpha/beta or afterwards and could be paid for by beating the metagame? I love cats fucked around with this message at 15:41 on Jun 6, 2014 |
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Jun 6, 2014 15:28
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I love cats posted:Asking money for a boxed game and then asking some more via microtransactions is EA degree of scummy cow milking. Knock it off with the catchphrases. What's low effort in disagreeing that such a business model is bad? The whole point of Star Citizen once finally released is that it will receive regular updates over time. Roberts said they're aiming for weekly but I think monthly is more achievable. Either way, ongoing development costs cash. There are currently two ways of keeping a revenue stream going for a game like that: You either have microtransactions, or you have a subscription. So why not make it F2P? By charging for the box you are guaranteeing a minimum level of gameplay without the need for nickel and diming people. Go look at any F2P game on the market: They charge you money for every single drat thing you can think of. Character slots. Inventory space. Access to any areas of the game outside the starter zones. Stuff like that. It's heavily restricted. Now go look at B2P games like GW2 or Secret World: There's literally dozens of hours of content available to new players. You usually have to reach a pretty high level or get pretty far into the game before you start to feel pressured into chipping in more money. If you've got another business model in mind that would achieve the goal of sustaining an ongoing development team without gouging players let's hear it.
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Jun 6, 2014 15:39
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UGH! Pedantic peripherals and control schemes are relics of a bygone era. Don't turn a blind eye and be obtuse about your caboose. With proven USB technology and a minimally invasive procedure you can play solitaire with your derriere. Get that behind a line and upgrade your rear port to experience the next generation in video gaming. This is the hour for tush power. The future is here. The future is in your rear.
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Jun 6, 2014 15:40
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