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FractalSandwich posted:There's not really a secret to it besides "they're not good writers and don't have good editors". Even a very good technical translator probably can't write good dialogue or prose on their own. I can imagine, it's a lot of effort to put a spin on Japanglish text to make it sound more like English when your focus is on the technical meaning. The best thing to do in that scenario is to pair the guy up with a writer/editor who may not know Japanese, but knows how to put a stylistic spin on the written content so that it reads more like what you'd expect from English media. Preferably one that can revise and cooperatively edit with the translator to create the best result. Pairing up with someone who has the skills you need can make wonderful things happen, better than writing on their own. Pity. Klace could really use a person to cooperate with him, but well.. I've tried, I'm surprised about how bored I was trying to talk to him about even his inspiration, Persona 4. EDIT: Data Graham posted:I honestly can't wait to see whether the Triumvirate ends up involving three of anything, or if it's just a word Klace ran across in some anime and thought it meant "evil bad guys in power". Probably would end up misusing it, just like I fear he'll do for "The Grand Inquisitor". That could easily be misused, and while it brings up really, really interesting ideas in my head, Klace doesn't think the way I do.
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Dec 26, 2016 02:07
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Data Graham posted:I honestly can't wait to see whether the Triumvirate ends up involving three of anything, or if it's just a word Klace ran across in some anime and thought it meant "evil bad guys in power".
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Dec 26, 2016 02:07
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I sorta hate to say it but the art in the new game seems more fitting. Something about it seems very fantasy.
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Dec 26, 2016 03:33
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willimm posted:I can imagine, it's a lot of effort to put a spin on Japanglish text to make it sound more like English when your focus is on the technical meaning.
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Dec 26, 2016 03:38
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FractalSandwich posted:It's not even a question of effort. If you happen to know Japanese, but have little to no experience with creative writing, it won't be something you even know how to do. God knows I don't. Again, pair the translator with an editor versed in creative writing, and give them a fast communication line from day 1. Best of both worlds. Anyone can become a writer, but only the fearless can be great. And if it's not an interest, I wouldn't force it upon them.
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Dec 26, 2016 03:47
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Of course. It's not an unsolvable problem, but fan translators often can't, don't or won't do anything about it.
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Dec 26, 2016 04:05
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I think that's still missing the forest for the trees because no portion of this... thing's base components are at all sound, much less good. Even if the dialogue sounded natural, the events themselves are disjointed and terribly executed. In terms of quick and dirty editing, you could have just STARTED the game from the silly personality test and nothing would really be lost. This includes removing the test. We'll see how much more cutting happens as the chapters go on. Also as a word of warning, do NOT read Klace's comments in that one Steam Review unless you really need to confirm how much he blankd fucked around with this message at 15:12 on Dec 26, 2016 |
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Dec 26, 2016 13:32
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Robindaybird posted:Or Kisama gets translated as "You Bastard!", even if it's in a children's anime about incompetent alien frogs. There's definitely a tendency to overuse vulgarity in some translation circles. My favourite is the use of the word "therefore". Nobody uses therefore unless they're writing a maths proof, but translations from Japanese seem to love sticking it in every sentence they can.
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Dec 26, 2016 15:42
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Whybird posted:My favourite is the use of the word "therefore". Nobody uses therefore unless they're writing a maths proof, but translations from Japanese seem to love sticking it in every sentence they can. You also use it if you're writing the conclusion to a paper or argument and going into 'Remember this, therefore this, therefore this, therefore thesis', but that's sort of a similar situation to a proof anyway.
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Dec 26, 2016 15:50
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Robindaybird posted:Or Kisama gets translated as "You Bastard!", even if it's in a children's anime about incompetent alien frogs. There's definitely a tendency to overuse vulgarity in some translation circles. Wait I though Yaro was "Bastard".... Isn't Kisama like jerks or something?
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Dec 26, 2016 16:32
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Zain posted:Wait I though Yaro was "Bastard".... Isn't Kisama like jerks or something? https://youtu.be/oSg2tXz_T6M?t=2m
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Dec 26, 2016 16:55
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blankd posted:Also as a word of warning, do NOT read Klace's comments in that one Steam Review unless you really need to confirm how much he Well, unless you are the writer of the review in question and had to try and acknowledge the developer's feedback, else you'd look like a fool yourself. Seriously, guy thinks he created a masterpiece with (chapter 4 spoilers) a character rigging the convention center with defensive high explosives after a murder, yet that moment was extremely offbeat and did not fit with the rest of the game, unless it was the visual novel equivalent of Dr. Strangelove. Which, come to think, would be something I'd happily play. Wanna know the definition of insanity? Look upon this and weep. (spoilers if you scroll up, just scroll down from here) Curus Keel fucked around with this message at 18:00 on Dec 26, 2016 |
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Dec 26, 2016 17:49
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Zain posted:Wait I though Yaro was "Bastard".... Isn't Kisama like jerks or something? It's one of the more rude/hostile ways of "You" (Teme is worse, as it implies the person you're speaking to is on the same level as a dog), so most translators tacked a "Bastard" afterwards to try to convey the level of rudeness.
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Dec 26, 2016 18:03
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Robindaybird posted:It's one of the more rude/hostile ways of "You" (Teme is worse, as it implies the person you're speaking to is on the same level as a dog), so most translators tacked a "Bastard" afterwards to try to convey the level of rudeness. Wouldn't just handling the tone of the writing (or especially voicework if it's a dub) be enough to convey a rude or hostile version of YOU! without profanity?
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Dec 26, 2016 18:08
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Of course not, English is an impoverished language in expressiveness compared to glorious Nipponese.
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Dec 26, 2016 18:09
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Not having a formal You/I does make translating some things from Japanese and other languages with such things harder, but yes - tone will make up for a lot of that.
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Dec 26, 2016 18:15
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Winds of Change now has a tech demo What tech you say?  even to the creator himself
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Dec 27, 2016 00:22
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inthesto posted:Winds of Change now has a tech demo Basically looks like Major\Minor with a new coat of paint. Oh, and more than 2 expressions for characters. Now there's one character with 3!
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Dec 27, 2016 00:57
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willimm posted:Well, unless you are the writer of the review in question and had to try and acknowledge the developer's feedback, else you'd look like a fool yourself. Seriously, guy thinks he created a masterpiece with (chapter 4 spoilers) a character rigging the convention center with defensive high explosives after a murder, yet that moment was extremely offbeat and did not fit with the rest of the game, unless it was the visual novel equivalent of Dr. Strangelove. Which, come to think, would be something I'd happily play. As someone else who's written reviews (specifically been asked for critique/criticism) of other people's work, I can empathize with having to deal with creators too thin-skinned, stupid or both. But I do have to confess that that whole exchange takes the cake and bakery. I don't envy your position, and I won't tell you what to do, but I do question how much more the head-to-wall cycle can go on. (Didn't you have an icon? I'm not very familiar with how SA titles work but did you assign that to yourself or did someone really pay for that?) On a separate topic, are there any specific resources anyone would recommend to someone who is making their own VN/small-scale ~narrative focused~ games? EDIT for the demo/Time for Armchair Amateur VN Gamedev: It mechanically looks the same as M\M except for the save menu which just displays the variable tracker. I guess that's technically an improvement? But that just opens up a bigger question of why isn't there a dedicated status/save button in the UI itself. I'm no MASTER CODER but using Renpy would cover the on-demand save by default and it's not really that much harder to implement a "show status" button on the UI or to show this information in the default settings menu if you wanted to avoid clutter. Is he really using RPG maker again?  The art looks better because it's more expressive but is definitely technically worse. The skew is so much more pronounced I found myself physically titling. It also looks like these are fullbody separate expression sprites instead of using individual parts. It's honestly too early to tell but using such different full body expressions might mean: 1. All the expressions really are full body, the artist has a lot of work ahead of them because those are some very limited expressions. (neutral, embarrassed, thinking, happy? whatever the slightly titled one is) This isn't inherently wrong but it might not be the most effective use of resources. 2. Those few expressions are IT for those two characters and that is going to look really weird. Or will reflect poorly on their possible future characterization (aside from the writing). Not all games need a full range but there is nothing here to suggest Klace will be able to pull this off. 3. It's unlikely but within the realm of possibility that there are some variations of "only the face/arm changes" expressions reserved for the actual game. At least he paid for I think the biggest mystery to me is why put a 'tech' demo instead of an actual demo? blankd fucked around with this message at 01:00 on Dec 27, 2016 |
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Dec 27, 2016 00:58
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blankd posted:Is he really using RPG maker again? It certainly seems like it! 
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Dec 27, 2016 01:07
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blankd posted:On a separate topic, are there any specific resources anyone would recommend to someone who is making their own VN/small-scale ~narrative focused~ games? The general go-to for making visual novels is Ren'Py which is... a library built in Python? I don't know dick about programming outside of my very niche wheelhouse, so idk if that's the proper terminology, but I think you understand what I'm saying. Since Ren'Py is free, just about every garbage visual novel you see dumped onto steam is made with it, and the games are comically easy to pirate. However, if you know Python, you can actually do some pretty impressive things with it, as famous games like Long Live The Queen, Hate: An Analogue Story, and Black Closet are all made in Ren'Py. The downside to it is that it has no GUI (I'm kind of surprised nobody has made a frontend for it), so you better get used to scripting things in a text editor. I guarantee this reason alone is why it was not used for Major/Minor. Tyranobuilder is VN software available for 15 USD on Steam and has a GUI which makes it much more friendly towards people who don't want to deal with coding or scripting. The obvious downside is that you have to pay for it, and additionally the default UI looks really loving amateur, even compared to Ren'Py defaults. If you don't care about the visual part and simply wish to write interactive fiction, there's also the option of ChoiceScript. If you remember the (in)famous LPs of Choice of Kung Fu and Heroes Rise, this is the scripting language those games used. The choice games generally have some pretty darn good writing in them, and their blog has some really good guidelines on how to write interactive fiction. Unfortunately, most visual novels don't take any pointers from them. Also, buy and play Sabers of Infinity. You won't regret it. Finally, there's a Visual Novel Maker (yes that's its name) coming out Soon(tm) on Steam. It was supposed to be released this month, but the publisher (degica, makers of RPGMaker, for the curious) had to push the release date back. The materials they've released so far are fairly attractive, so I have plans to look into it when it's released.
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Dec 27, 2016 01:09
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Twine and it's variants are also a popular option for CYOA-style text games, though I've seen many that have added pictures, and do some pretty complicated things like making options disappear and appear depending on how long you wait. As said - it's really astounding he picks one of the more unsuitable programs to make a VN
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Dec 27, 2016 01:14
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blankd posted:(Didn't you have an icon? I'm not very familiar with how SA titles work but did you assign that to yourself or did someone really pay for that?) Someone paid  to buy him a lovely redtext and didn't even make it red. Shame.
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Dec 27, 2016 01:14
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inthesto posted:Tyranobuilder is VN software available for 15 USD on Steam and has a GUI which makes it much more friendly towards people who don't want to deal with coding or scripting. The obvious downside is that you have to pay for it, and additionally the default UI looks really loving amateur, even compared to Ren'Py defaults. What do you mean by 'amateur'? I'm actually planning to buy it (though I'm gonna wait to the last minute to see if its sale price goes down even more  ), and to my tech-illiterate rear end it looks comprehensive, even intimidating, enough.
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Dec 27, 2016 01:15
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CommissarMega posted:What do you mean by 'amateur'? I'm actually planning to buy it (though I'm gonna wait to the last minute to see if its sale price goes down even more The game UI, not the builder's UI. It's barebones with a generic sans serif font.
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Dec 27, 2016 01:16
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Robindaybird posted:Twine and it's variants are also a popular option for CYOA-style text games, though I've seen many that have added pictures, and do some pretty complicated things like making options disappear and appear depending on how long you wait. Oh right, I forgot about Twine. A cursory google even pops up a few more free tools (though one of them is browser-based). There's even a plug-in for RPG Maker that does all the legwork of making it appropriate for visual novels. The only way the dev could have picked a worse tool to make Major/Minor is if they used the Quake 3 engine.
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Dec 27, 2016 01:20
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blankd posted:As someone else who's written reviews (specifically been asked for critique/criticism) of other people's work, I can empathize with having to deal with creators too thin-skinned, stupid or both. But I do have to confess that that whole exchange takes the cake and bakery. I don't envy your position, and I won't tell you what to do, but I do question how much more the head-to-wall cycle can go on. It's basically over at this point, what you are seeing is an archived version of the review where, in my opinion, the developer's reactions were the craziest. Of course, I would worry for those who want to criticize the creator's further games. blankd posted:(Didn't you have an icon? I'm not very familiar with how SA titles work but did you assign that to yourself or did someone really pay for that?) Wasn't me who did it. All I'm saying on that is "could you at least have kept the avatar?" I may change it back, but for now I'm going to stick with switching my username. blankd posted:EDIT for the demo/Time for Armchair Amateur VN Gamedev: It mechanically looks the same as M\M except for the save menu which just displays the variable tracker. I guess that's technically an improvement? But that just opens up a bigger question of why isn't there a dedicated status/save button in the UI itself. I'm no MASTER CODER but using Renpy would cover the on-demand save by default and it's not really that much harder to implement a "show status" button on the UI or to show this information in the default settings menu if you wanted to avoid clutter. Is he really using RPG maker again? He really is using RPG Maker again, like I said, looks like Major\Minor with a fresh coat of paint. Even there, I don't think it would take a dedicated coder like me to implement a key, a UI option, and/or both to bring up the save menu. blankd posted:I think the biggest mystery to me is why put a 'tech' demo instead of an actual demo? Klace didn't write the story yet, only the pitch. He'll probably write by the seat of his pants on this again. inthesto posted:The only way the dev could have picked a worse tool to make Major/Minor is if they used the Quake 3 engine. Challenge accepted.
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Dec 27, 2016 01:25
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senrath posted:The game UI, not the builder's UI. It's barebones with a generic sans serif font. Oh, right, derp. I suppose it's so a maker can make their own or something, I guess? I do wonder how it would work if I wanted to make something more than a pure VN, but I'll handle that once I'm (hopefully) done with the basics. inthesto posted:The only way the dev could have picked a worse tool to make Major/Minor is if they used the Quake 3 engine. God, what I'd give to see this 
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Dec 27, 2016 01:30
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inthesto posted:Winds of Change now has a tech demo STOP PUTTING YOUR HANDS BEHIND YOUR HEADS YOU ANIME FUCKS
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Dec 27, 2016 02:24
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inthesto posted:The only way the dev could have picked a worse tool to make Major/Minor is if they used the Quake 3 engine. This absolutely would have made it a much better game.
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Dec 27, 2016 02:29
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Data Graham posted:STOP PUTTING YOUR HANDS BEHIND YOUR HEADS YOU ANIME FUCKS What do you expect them to do, facial expressions? You can't do those in a mascot costume so Klace knows nothing of them!
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Dec 27, 2016 02:33
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Well I skimmed though this thread and I think this is one of the weirdest and most incomprehensible (not due to the LP'er) LPs I've seen. And the "Lisa" LP was pretty drat weird. DivisionPost posted:Lemme just summarize this thread for you: That's a pretty good assessment.
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Dec 27, 2016 03:32
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inthesto posted:The general go-to for making visual novels is Ren'Py which is... a library built in Python? I don't know dick about programming outside of my very niche wheelhouse, so idk if that's the proper terminology, but I think you understand what I'm saying.
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Dec 27, 2016 03:37
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inthesto posted:If you don't care about the visual part and simply wish to write interactive fiction, there's also the option of ChoiceScript. If you remember the (in)famous LPs of Choice of Kung Fu and Heroes Rise, this is the scripting language those games used. The choice games generally have some pretty darn good writing in them, and their blog has some really good guidelines on how to write interactive fiction. Unfortunately, most visual novels don't take any pointers from them. Also, buy and play Sabers of Infinity. You won't regret it. Choice of Games has a pretty sketchy business model, given nearly all their games are pulled from contests. Any game they host also only gives the author 25% of royalties, which is never much with games like this. Whenever they promote their writing contests game devs and writers alike shout from the rooftops to avoid them like the plague, same as any other contest. The cash prizes average out to being below industry standard PPW as well.
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Dec 27, 2016 06:40
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Night10194 posted:What do you expect them to do, facial expressions? You can't do those in a mascot costume so Klace knows nothing of them! OH so you think!
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Dec 27, 2016 06:41
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Zain posted:OH so you think! The thought of someone making a fursuit with embedded animatronics is terrifying to me and I blame you for giving me the mental image.
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Dec 27, 2016 07:42
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Obligatum VII posted:The thought of someone making a fursuit with embedded animatronics is terrifying to me and I blame you for giving me the mental image. I saw one at a general SFF con once. On top of that he had digitigrade feet so his face moved AND he towered over everyone. If anyone showed any visible discomfort he leaned in on them. He wasn't there on the second day so he either he was thrown out, or forced to lose the suit. The rest of the furries there just wore ears and tails.
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Dec 27, 2016 07:53
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As thanks for all the resources, here you go thread, some "fanart" of Rabies and the weeb. Sorry(?) about the squirrel, I don't draw them often. BG Stock image yoinked from GIS
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Dec 27, 2016 10:26
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Brilliant. 
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Dec 27, 2016 10:36
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