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People who backed Code Hero probably thought this was really how Game Development is like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjCo2I3ooK0
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Jan 10, 2013 10:10
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Harlock posted:Reminder that Star Command had 2 Kickstarters and still isn't out yet. According to their blog they are shooting for a January release date: http://blog.starcommandgame.com/
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Jan 10, 2013 10:25
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Looking at it in the most optimistic way, it is plausible Fargo is just really excited about being able to make a type of game he loves and is leaping at the chance to use KS to fund a second dream project. Heck we all worry a big project failing will mean the end of KS, maybe he has that same worry too and thus isn't hanging around to get this spiritual successor funded. It is not hard to imagine people who use KS for funding worrying about just how much damage Ouya's failure will do to their prospects for instance. I'm not saying this is definitely the case and you should always be wary of every project but there are potential not terrible reasons why he is doing this.
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Jan 10, 2013 11:10
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Except Fargo has been in vocal support of the OUYA, even appearing in their campaign video, so I doubt he's expecting it to fail. Less so recently, but at this point he just seems to be pro-crowdfunding in general. Pyradox fucked around with this message at 12:26 on Jan 10, 2013 |
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Jan 10, 2013 12:23
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If Chris Avellone has faith in the new Torment project, I have no reason to doubt him. https://twitter.com/ChrisAvellone/status/289081439822180353 https://twitter.com/ChrisAvellone/status/289087791504179200
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Jan 10, 2013 12:33
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Chris Avellone is best of buddies with Fargo -- it's no surprise he would support whatever Fargo would do next. Nobody will remember his public support if two years later it turns out the project is mediocre and a waste of money of a lot of good people. That is the problem, isn't it? Celebrity support seems to always works like that. The actual celebrity never bothers to actually look into the product they are endorsing, because most people won't remember that association if the product bombs. I don't know if it's the case for everyone, but my own perception of this Torment thingy would be rather different if Wasteland 2 was out now and it turned out to be as good as promised. As is, I'm just skeptic.
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Jan 10, 2013 12:46
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I'm skeptical as well, I'll probably not invest in a Kickstarter from someone who has promised something before and not yet delivered. If Wasteland 2 releases and it is decent, and a Kickstarter for Torment 2 goes up, hell yeah. Odds of that are really low though.
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Jan 10, 2013 12:55
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Pyradox posted:Except Fargo has been in vocal support of the OUYA, even appearing in their campaign video, so I doubt he's expecting it to fail. Jeez really? Well then yeah that undermines what I was saying a fair bit. Saoshyant posted:Chris Avellone is best of buddies with Fargo -- it's no surprise he would support whatever Fargo would do next. Nobody will remember his public support if two years later it turns out the project is mediocre and a waste of money of a lot of good people. The thing is Kickstarter (as a major funding source for games) is still a new thing, two years from now everything is going to look quite different. People were talking about how Code Hero looks really silly and people were silly to donate to it but with the benefit of hindsight stuff like that is much easier to say. Now maybe Code Hero was very bad from the off, I never heard of it till it failed but everyone is fallible and we all can get caught up in hype or be tricked by clever marketing. None of the projects I've donated to have been released yet so it is entirely possible I'll be mocked as an idiot for falling for such obvious trash. However as we learn from our and other's mistakes we'll have a better idea of what to donate to and what to avoid, though of course it will never become an exact science. It will be interesting to see if the opposite happens and a project that barely scrapes funding turns out to be massively popular on release and people regret not getting in on the ground floor.
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Jan 10, 2013 15:48
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ReV VAdAUL posted:None of the projects I've donated to have been released yet so it is entirely possible I'll be mocked as an idiot for falling for such obvious trash. What have you donated to?
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Jan 10, 2013 15:59
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seorin posted:The interview linked above mentioned that they're prioritizing story and that players will be able to skip almost every combat, but don't let a little thing like that get in the way of making GBS threads all over a project the day it's announced.
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Jan 10, 2013 16:42
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Did Code Hero look silly apart from some impractical rewards and the far fetched MMO stretch goal? They had real gameplay shown in the pitch. Yes it was amateur but the goal amount wasn't unrealistically high or low.
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Jan 10, 2013 17:07
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Carecat posted:Did Code Hero look silly apart from some impractical rewards and the far fetched MMO stretch goal? They had real gameplay shown in the pitch. Yes it was amateur but the goal amount wasn't unrealistically high or low. The game concept was the silliest part, honestly.
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Jan 10, 2013 17:32
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seorin posted:Uh, Double Fine is working on other games right now, too (The Cave at least, and certainly other unannounced projects). I think it's a bit early for the doom and gloom. Did you watch the latest backer video which was all about how they had to either find lots more money or drastically scale back the game? I'm sure it will work out for Double Fine, but if they're running out of cash and an adventure game is an order of magnitude less complex then a big RPG... 
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Jan 10, 2013 17:41
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Wow, I wasn't aware of that. That isn't good. At all. Here I thought Double Fine knew how to manage a fixed budget. I'm going to watch the video when I get home.
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Jan 10, 2013 17:47
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Install Gentoo posted:The game concept was the silliest part, honestly. ... but even if that's all it did, it would still have been better than about half the "Learn To Program Vidja GAMES!" books that came out in the 90's. The project had promise, the developers just skunked it.
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Jan 10, 2013 17:47
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Fintilgin posted:Did you watch the latest backer video which was all about how they had to either find lots more money or drastically scale back the game? They said they were looking into alternatives to avoid having to do that. The only concrete thing anyone of us can really help with right now is buying all the copies of psychonauts we can muster to help prop up their general budget, because they didn't feel like involving a publisher after specifically promising that wasn't what this kickstarter was about. That or just taking a scaled-back game I suppose.
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Jan 10, 2013 17:49
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inExile just posted this update to facebook:quote:You might have read the news that we have a pre-production team looking into a Torment game. The link is below for those interested. We are excited to be contemplating a project for the Wasteland 2 team to roll onto AFTER they are done. In the interest of over communicating, we want to make it quite clear that NO production would happen on Torment until after Wasteland 2 is near complete nor would any Wasteland monies be spent on Torment. You have given us a great opportunity to work on Wasteland 2 the way we want and we would never lose sight of that. We are feverishly working on an important update video that show off the HUD, combat, conversation and more. So I wouldn't worry about them actually putting up a Kickstarter until the Wasteland 2 release is imminent (and people have already been playing the beta).
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Jan 10, 2013 19:11
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I never figured that they would actually complete their full goal, ie. creating a video game from start to finish within another video game. I thought it would teach fairly simple coding concepts and tools through a guided tutorial sort of thing. I always figured it would be more useful in a "show kids programming" kind of way rather than a replacement for more traditional learning methods.
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Jan 10, 2013 21:03
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That just now has made it more likely for me to invest in Torment 2.
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Jan 10, 2013 22:18
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coffeetable posted:What have you donated to? Grim Dawn and Project Eternity. I don't think either were bad choices but I don't imagine the people who donated to Code Academy thought they were making a bad choice either. My point is that in the future someone with hindsight might be able to allude to what is by then a clear red flag on a failed project which at the time wasn't clear, either due to hype or inexperience with the concept of Kickstarter, which could apply to the developers as much as the backers.
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Jan 10, 2013 22:19
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TychoCelchuuu posted:I know what they're saying, but a bunch of people said "I don't want that guy writing the game, he's a hack writer" and you responded "I saw him talk about game mechanics and he really gets them." I don't really care one way or another - I'm pretty much done with Kickstarting stuff unless, I dunno, Homeworld 3 shows up or whatever, and we'll always have Planescape: Torment whether or not the spiritual sequel sucks (just like Deus Ex 2 didn't wipe out Deus Ex). I haven't even read any of this guy's writing. I just wanted to point out that people are saying he can't really write and that this isn't very promising for a Torment spiritual sequel. I think you misread what was going on there. The one complaint about writing referred to the Numenera setting, not the Torment 2 story, and the only other post about the setting was mildly pro-Numenera. Cook will only contribute a minor amount of writing to Torment 2 itself (similar to how WL2 writers each wrote separate areas), with his primary role being as a setting/mechanics advisor: Brian Fargo posted:This goes beyond a typical licensing arrangement as Monte will be giving us direct input and even provide writing for some of the game areas. Brian Fargo posted:Colin [McComb] serves as creative lead for this Torment and will be driving the story vision for the game. Brian Fargo posted:And to really show we are serious about the writing aspects of this game we brought Ray Vallese in as the editor to ensure the detail and consistency of the story. Ray too was part of the Planescape team at TSR. I was just pointing out that Monte Cook is, in my opinion, very good at the role he's playing for the game. Fintilgin posted:Did you watch the latest backer video which was all about how they had to either find lots more money or drastically scale back the game? I'm behind on watching my backer videos.  I guess I just don't share the pessimism yet. We've seen no signs that the games won't be released, just signs that they won't be as amazing as everyone wanted them to be. Maybe that's disappointing to people that expected these games to be every bit as good as the classics, but I personally saw this coming from the beginning. If the games turn out great, I'll be pleasantly surprised. If not, I'll at least get what I paid for.
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Jan 11, 2013 00:35
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Saoshyant posted:Wow, I wasn't aware of that. That isn't good. At all. Here I thought Double Fine knew how to manage a fixed budget. I'm going to watch the video when I get home. It's not the end of the world, pretty much every original title ever has been through a period like this. You make a grand design, start making it, and then the reality comes crashing down that you're being a little too optimistic. The normal procedure is to talk to the investors (Normally a publisher) and see if you can get a funding and deadline increase, and/or get together and work out what should be cut, which is exactly what Double Fine have been doing. The only difference is that DF don't want to go back to the original investors, but they do have the ability to go out and secure additional funding. They may not do it (Schaefer seemed determined to make the game for the money they were given), but it's an option available to them, and it's probably more preferable to them to keep the game as it was originally envisioned rather than scale it down. edit: And honestly the fact that they had this meeting so early is a good thing. Some projects don't even realize they're walking into trouble until the last few months of development. Doing it this early means that they know what they're doing, and they're in a good position to deal with it. AntiPseudonym fucked around with this message at 01:44 on Jan 11, 2013 |
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Jan 11, 2013 01:34
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Saoshyant posted:Wow, I wasn't aware of that. That isn't good. At all. Here I thought Double Fine knew how to manage a fixed budget. I'm going to watch the video when I get home. It's one of those things that sounds worse than it is. The designers make designs that are a little bit too grand for their budget and they cut stuff to make things fit. This happens in pretty much every game ever, because people tend to be more over-ambitious than under-ambitious, and that's a good thing. So what they're planning on doing is to maybe use profits from The Cave to extend development another few months while simultaneously cutting a few things from the design.
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Jan 11, 2013 01:42
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Yeah, now that I did get home and watched the video, it isn't that worrying. Still, DF has been going solo with games like Stacking for a while. They probably know how much they can extend on a fixed budget, so it's still a bit surprising they didn't notice they were overextending.
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Jan 11, 2013 01:53
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Was that video before or after the Amnesia Fortnight Humble Bundle? They didn't promise to use that money for anything in particular, right? Does anyone know how many bundles it sold? It's really annoying that Humble Bundle makes the sales data super open during the sale, but very difficult to find afterwards. I managed to find this page: http://support.humblebundle.com/customer/portal/articles/281031-prior-bundle-statistics but it has stats for every bundle except the Fortnight. 
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Jan 11, 2013 02:30
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Kenshin posted:inExile just posted this update to facebook: Waiting til Wasteland 2 is out gives them the best chance of making a great game. They'll have a finished Kickstarter-funded game to point at and say, "We've proven we can deliver, just try our other game!" Not only that, but they'll also have whatever profits they get from Wasteland's release to give them a bit of breathing room. Of course, if Wasteland 2 sucks they won't have either of those. But if that happens, I won't really give a drat what they do with a new game. 
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Jan 11, 2013 02:36
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Saoshyant posted:Yeah, now that I did get home and watched the video, it isn't that worrying. Still, DF has been going solo with games like Stacking for a while. They probably know how much they can extend on a fixed budget, so it's still a bit surprising they didn't notice they were overextending. Stacking was published/funded by THQ initially, the ports were self published though.
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Jan 11, 2013 02:42
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XboxPants posted:Was that video before or after the Amnesia Fortnight Humble Bundle? They didn't promise to use that money for anything in particular, right? Does anyone know how many bundles it sold? It's really annoying that Humble Bundle makes the sales data super open during the sale, but very difficult to find afterwards. I managed to find this page: http://support.humblebundle.com/customer/portal/articles/281031-prior-bundle-statistics but it has stats for every bundle except the Fortnight. The video was recorded before the Amnesia Fortnight. I got the sense that was also a fundraising project for DFA. I don't remember the exact numbers, but the amount of money in sales they received from it was in the $400,000 range.
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Jan 11, 2013 02:50
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XboxPants posted:Was that video before or after the Amnesia Fortnight Humble Bundle? They didn't promise to use that money for anything in particular, right? Does anyone know how many bundles it sold? It's really annoying that Humble Bundle makes the sales data super open during the sale, but very difficult to find afterwards. I managed to find this page: http://support.humblebundle.com/customer/portal/articles/281031-prior-bundle-statistics but it has stats for every bundle except the Fortnight. Go into your account and open the specific bundle page under your purchases and it will tell you, assuming you bought the Fortnight bundle.
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Jan 11, 2013 02:55
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According to the Humble Bundle stats and stuff Tim said, Amnesia Fortnight cost $300,000 and sold 35,000 bundles for $250,000 meaning it didn't break even. Still a better result than the usual $0 they make from it by not doing a fundraiser. Pyradox fucked around with this message at 03:44 on Jan 11, 2013 |
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Jan 11, 2013 03:42
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Saoshyant posted:Yeah, now that I did get home and watched the video, it isn't that worrying. Still, DF has been going solo with games like Stacking for a while. They probably know how much they can extend on a fixed budget, so it's still a bit surprising they didn't notice they were overextending. I'm not worried about Double Fine's game particularly, either. What worries me is that Wasteland 2 and P:E got roughly the same amount of money as Double Fine (well, what's an extra 500,000$ or so?), but seem like they're necessarily vastly more complex and content heavy then a 8-10 hour Lucasarts style adventure. Which makes me wonder if: A.) Double Fine just isn't as efficient as inXile/Obsidian or B.) W2/P:E may run into even more serious money woes than DF:A or C.) I'm worrying unnecessarily and the games are different enough you can't really draw a comparisson. (It's C, isn't it?  )
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Jan 11, 2013 04:02
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Double Fine does have a few extra concerns though. Some of the money they have goes to 2 Player Productions. I don't remember if they ever released how much, but after inflation due to the final size of the Kickstarter it was up at least a couple extra hundred thousand. I also haven't been keeping up to date with Wasteland 2 or Project: Eternity as much as Doublefine Adventures (which I don't keep much track of in the first place), but there seems to be a lot more material and work put into the community updates, although part of that comes out of the 2 Player budget. Edit: Doublefine also did very little pre-planning. Not that the other two did a whole lot either, but at least the other two had concepts going into Kickstarter, whereas Doublefine started after. nessin fucked around with this message at 04:52 on Jan 11, 2013 |
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Jan 11, 2013 04:33
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nessin posted:Double Fine does have a few extra concerns though. Some of the money they have goes to 2 Player Productions. I don't remember if they ever released how much, but after inflation due to the final size of the Kickstarter it was up at least a couple extra hundred thousand. I also haven't been keeping up to date with Wasteland 2 or Project: Eternity as much as Doublefine Adventures (which I don't keep much track of in the first place), but there seems to be a lot more material and work put into the community updates, although part of that comes out of the 2 Player budget. Adding to that, Double Fine are also building their own engine and exploring new art styles and composition techniques, while Wasteland 2 is using Unity and has a more traditional style.
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Jan 11, 2013 05:32
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Shalinor posted:Eh, not really. What they were doing was doable - "edit the script the gun uses on target object" isn't really that hard. What's hard is turning that into an actual learning tool with some use beyond training the user to move objects in 3-space. Yeah, I mean, I can see how it would work, something like that juicy breakout example (press escape) or any of those coding robot battling games. Here's code for how this gun shoots a bullet, with a in real time example/tool. If you want to change how the path and accuracy works, say make it "wavy", edit this. You want to change how the mass and acceleration works, edit this. Etcetera. But, it would have to be pretty ambitious from the start.
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Jan 11, 2013 05:33
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There needs to be a beginners guide to crowding funding projects. Or at least a baloney detector-esque list to separate the idea-guys from the get-stuff-done-guys. Thankfully everything I am currently funding has turned out pretty legit.
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Jan 11, 2013 05:35
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Dean of Swing posted:There needs to be a beginners guide to crowding funding projects. Or at least a baloney detector-esque list to separate the idea-guys from the get-stuff-done-guys. Thankfully everything I am currently funding has turned out pretty legit. There is plenty of information out there on how to sell a project. It might not be Kickstarter specific, but selling a Kickstarter project is no different then trying to sell any online based project. As for a BS detector? That's a lot harder if they've done their homework.
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Jan 11, 2013 05:50
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Pyradox posted:According to the Humble Bundle stats and stuff Tim said, Amnesia Fortnight cost $300,000 and sold 35,000 bundles for $250,000 meaning it didn't break even. Yeah, some people looked at that and thought it was a flop, but they forget or don't realize that Amnesia Fortnight is usually a private thing they do once a year and never really expose it to the public. So it was something they were going to do anyways, but they managed to squeeze an extra $250k out of it that they wouldn't normally have.
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Jan 11, 2013 06:06
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nessin posted:There is plenty of information out there on how to sell a project. It might not be Kickstarter specific, but selling a Kickstarter project is no different then trying to sell any online based project. As for a BS detector? That's a lot harder if they've done their homework. I think he meant a how to for backers, not that they'd probably read it unless they didn't need the advice already. Nostalgia clouds the vision of many.
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Jan 11, 2013 06:32
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Fintilgin posted:What worries me is that Wasteland 2 and P:E got roughly the same amount of money as Double Fine (well, what's an extra 500,000$ or so?), but seem like they're necessarily vastly more complex and content heavy then a 8-10 hour Lucasarts style adventure DFA got $3.33 million, Wasteland 2 got $2.93 million plus paypal and preorders, P:E got "over $4.3 million" by the time the paypal additions ended December 3. Using Unity will save a lot of time and money for Wasteland and Eternity compared to DFA making their own. NTRabbit fucked around with this message at 07:51 on Jan 11, 2013 |
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Jan 11, 2013 07:48
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Double Fine Adventure is using Moai, and a point-and-click adventure game... honestly, I'd expect there to be less engine development time needed for DFA than Wasteland 2 and P:E.
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