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Moddington posted:Look at what that character says in the next panel. "I guess they could leave in an urn, though. For their ashes, if they got staked." Yeah I was thinking of vampires in a different monster manual I had read recently(Hacklopedia of Beasts, maybe the best monster manual I've ever had), where a stake in the heart actually loses its effect if it is removed(similar to the Hammer and Universal films)
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Mar 26, 2013 11:48
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Dolash posted:It'd honestly be a pretty surprising twist if, like Miko's missed undeadening, the whole vampire thing was a feint and he really does end up returning to the Dwarven homelands dead and at peace. Or, building off of this, Durkon's staked and the OotS recovers his corpse, dumps it in a Bag of Holding, and runs to the Dwarves because they already know that clerics of Thor are there and at least one of them's gotta be capable of resurrection. Durkon only assumed he'd be put to rest with his ancestors permanently. Meanwhile, Malack brings Nergal's wrath because he's pissed that yet another eternal friend was taken from him and blah blah blah Tarquin wants the Gate.
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Mar 26, 2013 12:02
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Eh, I hope whatever part Tarquin and Co have in the main story ends with the Order leaving for the next area. He's a good villain but not the main antagonist of the story and if he continued following them around he'd get as stale as Nale. He's got more important poo poo to do.
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Mar 26, 2013 12:55
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Tarquen wanted to retreat all the way back to his castle, malack is going back to the main room looking for tarquen so they can go back to the castle as well. Linear guild is attempting to remove itself from play, rather than press on.
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Mar 26, 2013 15:56
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Durkon "bringing destruction upon the dwarven lands" could mean he has something to do with destroying the gate here. That would force Xykon and Redtooth to go to the one in the North, after all, which would bring destruction in a big way to anything in their path.
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Mar 26, 2013 16:00
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The idea that Nale would just up stake Durkon on sight is really stupid. It's a bad idea to attack other party members, especially ones who are more powerful and already want you dead. The only reason Tarquin kept Malak from killing Nale was because because he said he could get him a gate. That calculation will change if Nale starts staking guys. Plus, Nale is down two allies - Sabine and Thog, putting him at an even bigger disadvantage. Plus, Rich's writing is strong enough that he wouldn't have all that buildup to make Vampire Durkon and then kill him off without him doing anything of note.
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Mar 26, 2013 16:13
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I don't think Nale with have any lasting effect on the follow: the gate, durkon, or xykon. Nale is a gag villain. It would be poor storytelling to let anything to do with the main story be affected by him. If he kills durkon then the party will never have to confront him, which is a good 50+ page story arc right there. If Nale destroys the gate or xykon then that removes any conflict for our heroes. The linear guild will find a reason to leave, either by turning on each other and/or our heroes using a cunning plan. Then the real show starts for the gate.
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Mar 26, 2013 17:20
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Oh, I didn't think Nale would actually do that within the strips, but more of that would be the kind of response a person LIKE Nale would do. It would be a total "cut off your nose to spite the face" type deal that would be perfect for him.
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Mar 26, 2013 17:24
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Nale's whole thing is that he wants so badly to be the big bad of the campaign that he perceives Elan and the rest of the order to be the protagonists of, and every confrontation between him and the order has happened because he forced it while the order would have preferred to just ignore him. Two different ways I could see this whole plot thread going is either Nale achieving his goal and eclipsing Xykon as the bigger threat by taking control of a gate, only to get forced into a (losing) confrontation with Xykon before the Order even gets to him, or else the Order finally deciding to take the initiative and seek out a confrontation with Nale at a time where he doesn't feel ready to deal with them. Both seem like suitably ironic ways for his goal to get twisted against him.
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Mar 26, 2013 17:59
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I'd like to see how Elan reacts when/if Xykon kills Nale. Tarquin is protected by the power of dramatic plot to survive until Elan comes to dethrone him, so if anyone dies to Xykon it's going to be Nale.
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Mar 26, 2013 19:28
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Yeah, but a fitting punishment for Tarquin would be dying without getting to be a legend, so Xykon just offhandedly or humiliatingly offing him could work, if done well.
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Mar 26, 2013 19:36
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Blackheart posted:Yeah, but a fitting punishment for Tarquin would be dying without getting to be a legend, so Xykon just offhandedly or humiliatingly offing him could work, if done well. That's exactly my thinking. Tarquin has it all made, he's in charge of an empire, gets to do what he wants, he just has to sit back and do nothing to win, but Nale's offer tempts him, and that could easily cause his downfall in what he'd consider the worst way: He dies alone and forgotten in some dungeon where no one else will ever know. No glorious fight on the palace balcony. No statues to his memory. No aspiring villains following his footsteps. He just becomes a footnote to history, a general who vanished one day.
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Mar 26, 2013 21:59
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Slashrat posted:Nale's whole thing is that he wants so badly to be the big bad of the campaign that he perceives Elan and the rest of the order to be the protagonists of, and every confrontation between him and the order has happened because he forced it while the order would have preferred to just ignore him. Two different ways I could see this whole plot thread going is either Nale achieving his goal and eclipsing Xykon as the bigger threat by taking control of a gate, only to get forced into a (losing) confrontation with Xykon before the Order even gets to him, or else the Order finally deciding to take the initiative and seek out a confrontation with Nale at a time where he doesn't feel ready to deal with them. Both seem like suitably ironic ways for his goal to get twisted against him. eh, I'd say Nale's whole thing is Daddy Issues. Everything about him and his actions scream "earn Daddy's love". Tarquin praises the abilities of bards but says they are under-powered, so Nale makes sure he has those abilities without the label, hoping for Tarquin's approval. Tarquin couldn't hold on to power outright, so Nale tries to show he is good enough that he can rule from the front and get Tarquin's love and respect. Tarquin respects and listens to his teammates, so Nale betrays and tries to kill them all to get rid of anyone who detract's his father's attention from him. Tarquin loves Elan more, so Nale has to humiliate, destroy, and then kill Elan to prove he is better and deserves Tarquin's love. Hell, the whole mission in the pyramid, Nale was charging ahead recklessly (even compared to his past plans) to try and prove to his father he is a brilliant and skilled commander. A more likely resolution then, is Tarquin getting killed before Nale ever gets his approval, sending Nale off in a character tailspin now that he has lost his direction in life. At this point if I were to speculate, I'd say Malack and Durkula return to the main chamber to meet up with Tarquin, and find Xykon and crew there. Events lead to Xykon killing Malack, which frees Durkula, (who runs off) Tarquin tries to avenge his friend, gets killed, and leaving Nale pretty unmoored. Fried Chicken fucked around with this message at 00:55 on Mar 27, 2013 |
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Mar 26, 2013 22:55
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Would Tarquin really avenge Malack?
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Mar 26, 2013 23:28
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Noah posted:Would Tarquin really avenge Malack? He would, if it were a convenient excuse for something else.
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Mar 26, 2013 23:55
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Their friendship is genuine, Tarquin is spiteful (see sentencing the bounty hunters to the arena for a joke), and letting someone kill one of his allies without reprisal makes him look weak. I don't think he'd need any more excuse, though he would probably find a way to profit in the process.
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Mar 27, 2013 00:08
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Noah posted:Would Tarquin really avenge Malack? He is evil and calculating, yes, but he also has real relationships with others and lets those relationships and emotions influence his actions and reactions. Him going "oh well, I'm evil so it is ok" would be a pretty big break from his established character to something much more one dimensional. He will do things out of pride, profit, to demonstrate authority, and to keep a more valuable ally, but all those incidents have had a pretty hefty emotional component to them as well. Even if you don't think "he killed my friend" is enough, "my competitor for power and a threat to my authority just killed my friend" should be.
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Mar 27, 2013 00:53
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Fried Chicken posted:He is evil and calculating, yes, but he also has real relationships with others and lets those relationships and emotions influence his actions and reactions. Him going "oh well, I'm evil so it is ok" would be a pretty big break from his established character to something much more one dimensional. He will do things out of pride, profit, to demonstrate authority, and to keep a more valuable ally, but all those incidents have had a pretty hefty emotional component to them as well. Even if you don't think "he killed my friend" is enough, "my competitor for power and a threat to my authority just killed my friend" should be. this also ignores the article on GITAP where he talks about two villains not being able to be turned against each other because they were childhood friends growing up.
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Mar 27, 2013 01:11
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Nystral posted:this also ignores the article on GITAP where he talks about two villains not being able to be turned against each other because they were childhood friends growing up. Except Tarquin and Malack are the friends here, not Tarquin and Xykon. If anything, the character development technique in that essay makes me think it is more likely that Tarquin would have an emotional reaction to Malack's (final) death, rather than blowing it off because he is evil. Though is there a spell that could destroy Malack outright, rather than banish him to his coffin?
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Mar 27, 2013 02:30
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Fried Chicken posted:Though is there a spell that could destroy Malack outright, rather than banish him to his coffin? More generally, any spell that's a straight save-or-die rather than dealing damage ought to work, but I'm not sure which are left after you remove all the ones that have no effect on undead, either due to being mind-affecting or requiring a Fortitude save. NihilCredo fucked around with this message at 02:52 on Mar 27, 2013 |
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Mar 27, 2013 02:46
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Being thrown into the Snarl.
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Mar 27, 2013 02:46
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Maybe something the MitD could do, aside from wish? But that isn't going to happen as he already played the wish card and Rich probably won't want his true form revealed just yet.
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Mar 27, 2013 02:51
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What about like binding him in a soul prison gem or something?
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Mar 27, 2013 03:23
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Nystral posted:this also ignores the article on GITAP where he talks about two villains not being able to be turned against each other because they were childhood friends growing up. Got a link?
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Mar 27, 2013 03:54
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Fried Chicken posted:What about like binding him in a soul prison gem or something? That wouldn't really destroy him, though. There is a way out of a soul prison gem and Tarquin seems like he would go to the trouble to do so if it was possible. It would buy you time, but now you've got Tarquin who controls an empire pissed off at you, along with the rest of his party that we haven't met.
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Mar 27, 2013 04:16
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Naramyth posted:Got a link? Here you go. A lot of the articles on his site are really interesting, it's a shame he stopped doing them.
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Mar 27, 2013 04:20
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MildShow posted:Here you go. The OOTS was originally just a way to draw people to the articles.  I agree it's a pity he stopped, that one on creating a villain is brilliant.
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Mar 27, 2013 04:59
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Beyond any deeper motivation do you think Tarquin would pass up a chance at sworn vengeance against those that killed his best friend? He probably keeps a separate set of armor and weapons just for gearing up montages.
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Mar 27, 2013 05:45
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Friendship is just another method of control for Tarquin. You shouldn't believe he actually cares about anyone.
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Mar 27, 2013 08:03
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greatn posted:Friendship is just another method of control for Tarquin. You shouldn't believe he actually cares about anyone.
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Mar 27, 2013 08:17
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He's a master manipulator.
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Mar 27, 2013 08:22
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Bigot. You think just because you label someone as "Evil", that they aren't capable of the same emotions and attachments you are.
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Mar 27, 2013 08:27
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greatn posted:Friendship is just another method of control for Tarquin. You shouldn't believe he actually cares about anyone. So did you catch the part where literally half the strip is a deconstruction of the Evil Archetype being a cartoonish sociopath that is incapable of having meaningful relationships?
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Mar 27, 2013 09:24
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He is real friends with Malack and probably the rest of his party. He is evil but that does mean he can't care about people.
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Mar 27, 2013 09:51
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Naramyth posted:Got a link? The link to the Friendship is Magic and Love is something EVIL feels too! article was already posted so I'll link the "how to build a villian one instead.. This was TOTALLY NOT because I added the wrong one, NO SIREE!! http://www.giantitp.com/articles/rTKEivnsYuZrh94H1Sn.html Nystral fucked around with this message at 13:22 on Mar 27, 2013 |
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Mar 27, 2013 13:19
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greatn posted:Friendship is just another method of control for Tarquin. You shouldn't believe he actually cares about anyone.
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Mar 27, 2013 13:56
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greatn posted:Friendship is just another method of control for Tarquin. You shouldn't believe he actually cares about anyone. Even if it is Tarquin is not going to turn down the chance for an awesome revenge kick.
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Mar 27, 2013 14:11
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greatn posted:Friendship is just another method of control for Tarquin. You shouldn't believe he actually cares about anyone. Which reduces him down to a one dimensional character. I really can't see rich going "hey I spent half the book doing character development, now to toss it in the trash!"
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Mar 27, 2013 17:09
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I never saw him as that developed in the first place. The entire chapter I've never seen him express anything except smug amusement and self satisfaction at how awesome he is. He's just a narcissist, having a vampire lizard thing friend helps fulfill his political goals and his ability to make himself look cooler. To be cool and be remembered seem to be his real primary motivations.
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Mar 27, 2013 17:45
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greatn posted:I never saw him as that developed in the first place. The entire chapter I've never seen him express anything except smug amusement and self satisfaction at how awesome he is. He's just a narcissist, having a vampire lizard thing friend helps fulfill his political goals and his ability to make himself look cooler. To be cool and be remembered seem to be his real primary motivations. He's shown some true friendship for Malack, including apologizing for his actions and taking steps to correct the behavior. Tarquin is absolutely an evil narcissistic bastard, but he's just as human as anyone else.
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