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fatherboxx)
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In a weird twist that I definitely didn't expect, the so-called Havana syndrome may actually be real? At least partially? An investigation by The Insider, 60 Minutes, and Der Spiegel shows correlation between movement of certain GRU agents and some reported cases. https://theins.ru/en/politics/270425 Unless it's a very elaborate April 1 joke, just wild.
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Apr 1, 2024 13:49
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That seems like grasping at straws when the basic test of it being real, having consistent demonstrable symptoms, keeps failing. It’s a social contagion like cops and “fentanyl”.
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Apr 1, 2024 13:55
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fool of sound posted:That seems like grasping at straws when the basic test of it being real, having consistent demonstrable symptoms, keeps failing. It’s a social contagion like cops and “fentanyl”. The investigation doesn't claim that literally every case is real (hence 'partially' in my post), so I think there is definitely an element of a social contagion there. I know that a lot of claims of AHI come with the equivalent of that video where a lady violently shakes 'because of the COVID vaccine'. At the same time, I wouldn't disregard it completely out of hand like this after reading the investigation. quote:Contrary to the information that has been made public about Havana Syndrome — that it began in the eponymous Cuban capital in 2016 — there were likely attacks two years earlier in Frankfurt, Germany, when a U.S. government employee stationed at the consulate there was knocked unconscious by something akin to a strong energy beam. The victim was later diagnosed with a traumatic brain injury, and was also able to identify a Geneva-based Unit 29155 operative. quote:Joy has suffered from headaches every day for the past three years. She has also undergone two surgeries for semicircular canal dehiscence (the appearance of holes in the bony walls that encase her inner ears). She will need a third surgery to address the rapid deterioration of her temporal bone, a condition she says her neurosurgeon cannot explain. Here, for example, we see some diagnosed conditions that spontaneously developed after the alleged attack. That and the fact that multiple victims identified their attackers gives at least some credence to their claims. In fairness, it can also be the case that some American paper pushers saw a scary spy for the first time, and it spooked them so much, they thought he shot them with a sound laser. But if the GRU unit identified in the investigation actually worked with the sound laser technology as claimed, that sure makes it an interesting coincidence. quote:A yearlong investigation by The Insider, in collaboration with 60 Minutes and Der Spiegel, has uncovered evidence suggesting that unexplained anonymous health incidents, also known as Havana Syndrome, may have their origin in the use of directed energy weapons wielded by members of Unit 29155. Paladinus fucked around with this message at 14:28 on Apr 1, 2024 |
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Apr 1, 2024 14:21
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I watched the segment on 60 Minutes and one interviewee said only agents in the top 5% on their performance reviews were being targeted which is absolutely insane
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Apr 1, 2024 14:30
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Paladinus posted:The investigation doesn't claim that literally every case is real (hence 'partially' in my post), so I think there is definitely an element of a social contagion there. I know that a lot of claims of AHI come with the equivalent of that video where a lady violently shakes 'because of the COVID vaccine'. At the same time, I wouldn't disregard it completely out of hand like this after reading the investigation. Where is the evidence for this brain condition? The NIH studied the victims for years and found nothing in this study published a couple weeks ago. Neuroimaging Findings in Individuals Involved in Anomalous Health Incidents jamanetwork.com posted:## Neuroimaging Findings in US Government Personnel and Their Family Members Involved in Anomalous Health Incidents In fact there was another one just published Clinical, Biomarker, and Research Findings in Individuals With Anomalous Health Incidents jamanetwork.com posted:Questions mawarannahr fucked around with this message at 14:35 on Apr 1, 2024 |
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Apr 1, 2024 14:31
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Some of the people behind this investigation also found out who were the perpetrators in the Skripal and Navalny poisoning. To outright dismiss it, is, I think, a bit arrogant. The report establishes that the Soviet union and Russia have been researching weapons like the one theorized here for decades. It provides some evidence as to who was behind it, and it establishes a motive.
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Apr 1, 2024 14:32
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It appears possible that a small number of people were genuinely targeted and injured while the remainder were either due to mass hysteria or suffered no discernable long term harm. Broad studies of all alleged victims could then find no result statistically speaking.
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Apr 1, 2024 14:35
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fool of sound posted:It’s a social contagion like ... “fentanyl”. What? Carfentanil, usually sold on the streets as fentanyl, is a very real problem. It became the darling of smugglers when they started getting cheap supply out of China, because it's by weight about 4000 times more potent than heroin, meaning you can smuggle in a suitcase more doses than you can fit into a 20ft container full of heroin. When they get it past the border, they can then cut it until it matches other available opiates. Except that criminals cutting drugs are generally not great at mixing quality, which is why tons and tons of people die of overdose.
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Apr 1, 2024 15:02
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Tuna-Fish posted:What? You've cut out the key part. It's not just fentanyl that's a social contagion, it's the specific combination of US cops fainting and having "difficulty breathing" (panic attacks) when they notice anything resembling a white powder.
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Apr 1, 2024 15:05
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Tuna-Fish posted:What? E: F,b Jethro fucked around with this message at 16:09 on Apr 1, 2024 |
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Apr 1, 2024 15:09
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mawarannahr posted:Where is the evidence for this brain condition? The NIH studied the victims for years and found nothing in this study published a couple weeks ago. Worth noting that other studies also undertaken at the behest at the government did find clear evidence. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/havana-syndrome-culprit-investigation-new-evidence-60-minutes-transcript/?ftag=CNM-00-10aab7d&linkId=379838418 quote:A major medical study for the government was led by Dr. David Relman of Stanford University. In our 2022 report he told us…
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Apr 1, 2024 16:43
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D-Pad posted:Worth noting that other studies also undertaken at the behest at the government did find clear evidence. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/havana-syndrome-culprit-investigation-new-evidence-60-minutes-transcript/?ftag=CNM-00-10aab7d&linkId=379838418 Do you have a link to this study? I couldn't find a link or a citation in the article.
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Apr 1, 2024 16:45
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i hope this all turns out to be bullshit because i am not ready for history textbooks to have to include the saga of international incidents from hostile spy organizations intentionally scrambling the brains of embassy and administrative staff (and their families) with prototype directed energy mind microwavers that turned out to be real
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Apr 1, 2024 16:58
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They were hungover and wanted to get out of work. Cuba or the soviet union didn't have a magic brain altering ray gun.
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Apr 1, 2024 20:54
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Cocaine Bear posted:They were hungover and wanted to get out of work. Cuba or the soviet union didn't have a magic brain altering ray gun. I would completely believe that the FSB leaked misinformation about Russian involvement in Havana Syndrome to the Insider and 60 Minutes to make them seem more powerful on the international stage given Ukraine is a quagmire and they recently had a major intelligence failure with the Crocus Hall massacre.
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Apr 1, 2024 21:05
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Young Freud posted:I would completely believe that the FSB leaked misinformation about Russian involvement in Havana Syndrome to the Insider and 60 Minutes to make them seem more powerful on the international stage given Ukraine is a quagmire and they recently had a major intelligence failure with the Crocus Hall massacre. I don't know a lot about the FSB but I guaran-loving-tee that they will not under any circumstance hand it to the GRU.
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Apr 1, 2024 21:09
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Comedy option is that GRU operatives were using decades of sonic-weapon research in an attempted attack on US Embassies worldwide, but failed to cause any damage.
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Apr 1, 2024 21:15
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Morrow posted:Comedy option is that GRU operatives were using decades of sonic-weapon research in an attempted attack on US Embassies worldwide, but failed to cause any damage. Hopefully I won't eat a probe but in Finnish there's a saying that "How do you recognize a Russian rear end vibrator? It doesn't fit into an rear end, and it doesn't vibrate".
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Apr 1, 2024 21:26
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I had to put up a lot with this forum over the years, but not believing in microwaves is a new low. what's next, not believing in fire?
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Apr 1, 2024 21:38
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Vahakyla posted:Hopefully I won't eat a probe but in Finnish there's a saying that "How do you recognize a Russian rear end vibrator? It doesn't fit into an rear end, and it doesn't vibrate". https://youtu.be/4BUb0IB0LOE?feature=shared
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Apr 1, 2024 21:39
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Vahakyla posted:Hopefully I won't eat a probe but in Finnish there's a saying that "How do you recognize a Russian rear end vibrator? It doesn't fit into an rear end, and it doesn't vibrate". There's a similar old Soviet joke. What is huge as a house and needs 20 litres of fuel to slice one apple into three pieces? A Soviet four-piece apple slicer machine. E: Beaten by the Chernobyl adaptation, lol.
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Apr 1, 2024 21:42
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Paladinus posted:There's a similar old Soviet joke. What is huge as a house and needs 20 litres of fuel to slice one apple into three pieces? A Soviet four-piece apple slicer machine. E: beaten by the E
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Apr 1, 2024 21:43
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https://x.com/nytimes/status/1774885709679120649?s=20 I could see Johnson pushing the legislation through despite other Republicans being against it. He himself supports Ukraine and if they're going to remove him as speaker he might as well get something accomplished.
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Apr 1, 2024 22:13
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Gucci Loafers posted:https://x.com/nytimes/status/1774885709679120649?s=20 NY Times: Lucy about to hand the football over. Yes, the person who spent past 6 months blocking it in various dishonest ways wants to see it happen.
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Apr 1, 2024 22:24
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so apropos of nothing, is it just me or did all of the nordstream investigations kind of peter out into nothingness? are any of the countries with potential jurisdiction still actively investigating?
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Apr 1, 2024 22:25
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:so apropos of nothing, is it just me or did all of the nordstream investigations kind of peter out into nothingness? are any of the countries with potential jurisdiction still actively investigating? IIRC Denmark and Sweden have closed their investigations, and Germany's is still open. I wouldn't hold my breath for any official closure anytime soon. spankmeister fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Apr 1, 2024 |
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Apr 1, 2024 22:40
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Yeah I think the takeaway has generally been that proving culpability is probably not possible. While Russia remains the best suspect in terms of motive (avoiding fines for shuttering it to try to starve Germany of fossil fuels), capability (multiple ships in the area acting suspiciously), and past history (previous similar sabotage actions), the evidence is largely circumstantial. Ukraine was blamed by a group of German journalists, but experts have generally refuted those claims or believe it was a false flag operation (the alleged saboteurs lacked the equipment or expertise, and are linked to Russia). In any case, the outcome of the investigation probably wouldn't yield anything positive - Russia wouldn't cooperate with any verdict, and it would be difficult to blame Ukraine or another friendly nation for destroying something that should never have been built in the first place.
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Apr 1, 2024 23:05
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https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/04/01/iran-warned-russia-of-terror-attack-before-crocus-city-hall/ unnamed sources are suggesting that iran sent it's own warning to russia before the crocus attacks based on interrogations of is members captured in the investigation into their own recent major terrorist attack. though i suppose this doesn't preclude the "islamic state is a direct extension of the cia" narrative Kaal posted:Yeah I think the takeaway has generally been that proving culpability is probably not possible. While Russia remains the best suspect in terms of motive (avoiding fines for shuttering it to try to starve Germany of fossil fuels), capability (multiple ships in the area acting suspiciously), and past history (previous similar sabotage actions), the evidence is largely circumstantial. Ukraine was blamed by a group of German journalists, but experts have generally refuted those claims or believe it was a false flag operation (the alleged saboteurs lacked the equipment or expertise, and are linked to Russia). In any case, the outcome of the investigation probably wouldn't yield anything positive - Russia wouldn't cooperate with any verdict, and it would be difficult to blame Ukraine or another friendly nation for destroying something that should never have been built in the first place. it feels like the kind of incident that would have strong public sentiment for some kind of definitive resolution, but maybe the german public simply doesn't want to think about how closely entwined they were with putin?
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Apr 1, 2024 23:31
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Kaal posted:Ukraine was blamed by a group of German journalists.... It was not just a group of journalist, but Der Spiegel specifically. Their journalism is mostly considered reliable, but the specific piece about it reads like their source is someone in the FSB feeding them info. It did happen to get a lot of well deserved backlash in other segments of German media.
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Apr 2, 2024 05:11
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Paladinus posted:There's a similar old Soviet joke. What is huge as a house and needs 20 litres of fuel to slice one apple into three pieces? A Soviet four-piece apple slicer machine. And in a similar vein: why did the Soviet microprocessor industry fail? They couldn't fit the microprocessors through the factory gates.
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Apr 2, 2024 07:21
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Kaal posted:Yeah I think the takeaway has generally been that proving culpability is probably not possible. While Russia remains the best suspect in terms of motive (avoiding fines for shuttering it to try to starve Germany offossil fuels), capability (multiple ships in the area acting suspiciously), and past history (previous similar sabotage actions), the evidence is largely circumstantial. Ukraine was blamed by a group of German journalists, but experts have generally refuted those claims or believe it was a false flag operation (the alleged saboteurs lacked the equipment or expertise, and are linked to Russia). In any case, the outcome of the investigation probably wouldn't yield anything positive - Russia wouldn't cooperate with any verdict, and it would be difficult to blame Ukraine or another friendly nation for destroying something that should never have been built in the first place. Dick Ripple posted:It was not just a group of journalist, but Der Spiegel specifically. Their journalism is mostly considered reliable, but the specific piece about it reads like their source is someone in the FSB feeding them info. It did happen to get a lot of well deserved backlash in other segments of German media. There's quite a bit more to it than just Der Spiegel, and at this point it is a rather uncommon view amongst mainstream Western observers that Russia might be responsible. Radio Free Europe sums up some of the coverage here: Reports Say CIA Warned Ukraine Not To Sabotage Nord Stream Pipeline Prior To Blasts www.rferl.org posted:The U.S. Central Intelligence Agency reportedly warned Ukraine not to sabotage the Nord Stream undersea gas pipelines last year after receiving a tip from the Netherlands’ intelligence agency that a plot was under way. Then in November was this further development that Washington Post characterized as "the most direct evidence to date tying Ukraine’s military and security leadership" to it. Radio Free Europe summarizes: Report: Senior Ukrainian Military Officer With Intelligence Ties 'Coordinated' Nord Stream Sabotage www.rferl.org posted:A decorated officer in the Ukrainian military with "deep ties" to the country's intelligence services "played a central role" and was the "coordinator" of the attack last year on the Nord Stream natural-gas pipeline, The Washington Post reported on November 11. There is a whole lot of other news and comment for y'all to catch up on if you haven't been following. This one is a long form article from the Atlantic for those who have an afternoon to kill: The Destruction of the Nord Stream Pipeline Is the Mystery No One Wants Solved(theatlantic.com - Wed, 13 Dec 2023). I think this part of the end is an astute observation on the difficulties involved in assigning blame: quote:Until there is some formal resolution, unofficial findings and theories are all we have. But the evidence at the scene of the blasts is well documented. A military-like crew aboard the Andromeda definitely wandered in the vicinity of the explosion sites, behavior that may of course turn out to have an innocent explanation. Then there is the explosive residue found on Andromeda. Hersh, for his part, contends that the Andromeda voyage and the explosive residue are part of a carefully constructed ploy designed to steer investigators away from the truth. If so, given the variety of sources and methods used to reconstruct Andromeda’s voyage, it would be a remarkably intricate confection. If the official investigations do identify Ukrainians as the perpetrators, as I suspect they will, many of those inclined to believe the Russia theory or the America theory will hold to their opinions. People tend to believe what they wish to believe, and theories are bound up with political ends. I don't think this one was directly linked above but can't get past the paywall today: U.S. had intelligence of detailed Ukrainian plan to attack Nord Stream pipeline (washingtonpost.com - Tue, 06 Jun 2023) Some recent updates from this month include: Nord Stream sues insurers in London over 2022 pipeline blasts(reuters.com) And as has been mentioned, Sweden and Denmark shut down their inquiry about a month ago: Sweden closes probe into explosions on Nord Stream pipelines, saying it doesn't have jurisdiction apnews.com - Wed, 07 Feb 2024 posted:COPENHAGEN, Denmark (AP) — Swedish officials said Wednesday that they have decided to close their investigation into the September 2022 explosions on the underwater Nord Stream gas pipelines which were built to carry Russian natural gas to Germany, saying they don’t have jurisdiction.
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Apr 2, 2024 07:46
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KingaSlipek posted:The report establishes that the Soviet union and Russia have been researching weapons like the one theorized here for decades. It provides some evidence as to who was behind it, and it establishes a motive. The United States spent decades researching mind powers, parapsychology and trying to use Jedi Mind Tricks. We have entire Hollywood movies about who was behind it and there is plenty of motive on why. It's called work and we all hate it. Now that I have diagnosed the condition, please give me 200 million in secret US defence department funding to weaponize it.
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Apr 2, 2024 08:12
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There is indeed a certain indifference to the NS sabotage in the German population (outside of the right-wing/tankie bubble). By the time it blew up there was an overwhelming public sentiment that gas imports from Russia needed to hit zero in 2023 and Russia had already shut down deliveries over the pipelines for some time. From that perspective, someone blew up a worthless & unwanted piece of metal junk in foreign waters. The monetary damage was literally 0.
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Apr 2, 2024 08:59
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purported footage of ukrainian drone strikes unsuccessfully targeting a drone factory and successfully hitting a refinery in multiple towns in tartarstan is making the rounds. if it's correctly geolocated than ukraine is now able to strike to the foot of the urals. some 700 miles from the russian border https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1775047435603091537 suicide drone looks like it's essentially a small cassena, definitely not getting past any purpose built aa, but setting up adequate heavy machine guns/light flak canons at worthwhile factory, refinery and warehouse district seems like it'll be a pain to organize
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Apr 2, 2024 09:27
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GABA ghoul posted:There is indeed a certain indifference to the NS sabotage in the German population (outside of the right-wing/tankie bubble). By the time it blew up there was an overwhelming public sentiment that gas imports from Russia needed to hit zero in 2023 and Russia had already shut down deliveries over the pipelines for some time. From that perspective, someone blew up a worthless & unwanted piece of metal junk in foreign waters. The monetary damage was literally 0. Both Russia and Germany weirdly are OK with NS being gone I think. Putin wants any way back from his forever war policy cut off and Germany does not want to get fooled again into being dependent on Russia in case someone trows Putin out a window and pretends to be good friends now.
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Apr 2, 2024 09:35
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Speaking of gas pipelines, I read EU countries are spending about six billion annually on Russian gas, with the numbers being fairly flat comparing to one year ago. Austria is the largest buyer.
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Apr 2, 2024 11:57
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d64 posted:Speaking of gas pipelines, I read EU countries are spending about six billion annually on Russian gas, with the numbers being fairly flat comparing to one year ago. Austria is the largest buyer. Austria currently imports over 90% of its gas from Russia, which continues to increase since the war started. They have a contract with Gazprom until 2040, so of course nothing can be done about that. There are efforts to amend it, but the parties involved (think it is mostly the Greens) have little chance of getting into power and see other efforts as more important to spend what little political capital they have on.
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Apr 2, 2024 12:40
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Isn't the gas to Austria going through pipelines in Ukraine, for which Gazprom still pays Ukraine every month for transit?
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Apr 2, 2024 14:07
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This wasn't posted here yet: Russia recently launched one of the biggest armored vehicle assaults of the war. It didn't go well, but apparently shows Russia's renewed interest in committing tanks and BMPs on the front line.
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Apr 2, 2024 15:16
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CeeJee posted:Isn't the gas to Austria going through pipelines in Ukraine, for which Gazprom still pays Ukraine every month for transit? Yes. There is also the TurkStream, which feeds Turkey and others who have access to the Mediterranean. The thing about the Ukrainian line is Kyiv is saying they will not renew the deal which is set to expire sometime the end of this year, so countries relying on it (Austria) should be preparing for that.
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Apr 2, 2024 15:33
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