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Tenacious J posted:So what are certificates? I ask as an IT illiterate person. It's a piece of cryptographic data that assures you that the software was provided by who it says it was, basically. Without a signature, it would be easier to trick the user into loading malware disguised as Rift drivers. It has an expiration date so that Oculus is forced to periodically re-verify that they are still around and still in control of the software. They forgot to do this on schedule, so the software became untrustworthy and the OS refuses to run it.
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Mar 8, 2018 07:25
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I see. Why was this not automated? Seems like a process that robots should handle not a guy using Outlook reminders.
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Mar 8, 2018 08:06
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Tenacious J posted:I see. Why was this not automated? Seems like a process that robots should handle not a guy using Outlook reminders. No it's totally a guy using outlook reminders at most companies (better hope he doesn't leave and forget to hand off that task). Certs have screwed over so many companies it's totally a normal thing to happen. Among other things Microsoft lost Azure for a day over it a couple of years ago. It's just not something you have to do often enough to automate, and it would be dangerous to automate since someone could get ahold of your system. The only way they REALLY screwed up was that their update system also using the same cert. In most cases what would have happened is that the cert to use the Rift would fail, in an hour or two someone would get a panicked email, make a new cert and push it through an update system and everything would be resolved. Since they can't do that they'll have to get everyone to download a new .exe/.msi and install some new stuff. I hope they load the Oculus program front page from a web source that doesn't rely on the cert so they can at least inform people what they need to do once they find a solution.
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Mar 8, 2018 08:44
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Oculus fix is out, mine just updated and it works. I was running my clock at 3/5 to get my daily Stand Out fix in and when I was done it started downloading the update. So, change your date to 3/5, reboot the oculus services, let it download the update and restart, then change the date BACK to present (because the new cert was created 3/6/2018, quite curious) and then you'll be able to launch the new home binaries and update. The manual patch is online now too. https://www.oculus.com/rift-patch/ rage-saq fucked around with this message at 08:59 on Mar 8, 2018 |
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Mar 8, 2018 08:51
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Oculus is giving everyone that has used their headset after Feb 1 of this year $15 in store credit for the inconvenience. Honestly pretty surprised to see anything at all, so good for them.
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Mar 8, 2018 14:16
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that's pretty cool
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Mar 8, 2018 15:02
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Rad. Oculus keep loving up and giving us free money please.
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Mar 8, 2018 16:50
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They gave me the entire Oculus Touch bundle (after I bought Robo Recall) after accidentally removing access to it after a weird series of events that was partially my fault. That being said I don't really play any other Oculus game than Robo Recall.
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Mar 8, 2018 16:58
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Oculus recently listed a few games at a zero-cost, allowed people to buy and play said games, then corrected the price mistake within a few hours and revoked access to the games for all users a day later. I think they did this at least twice, days or weeks apart from each other. They suck for that. Also, this certificate garbage. Bad company. I suppose a $15 gift cert is a good concession. Hopefully they move in this (more consumer friendly) direction going forward.
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Mar 8, 2018 17:09
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I wonder if revive would proc that discount. It would be neat, but no loss if it doesn’t.
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Mar 8, 2018 17:53
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bobfather posted:I suppose a $15 gift cert is a good concession. Hopefully they move in this (more consumer friendly) direction going forward. Yeah it's a nice thing and it really doesn't cost them very much. There was some math in reddit that this would cost them between 1 and 7 million but that didn't count that they get 30% off the top, a decent percentage of people will probably never cash it in. A number of people who do make purchases will end up spending over $15 giving them partial revenue, and some people will end up buying titles that are published by Oculus themselves (hence they get the money). In addition to all of those mitigating factors it's also makes developers happy because there is a ton of free money out there to capture. If I was on the platform at $20 I'd change the price of my game to $14.99, or try to get a sale price of $14.99 as soon as I could. If you look at it from the angle of a marketing spend this really is pretty cheap for them. All that said I think it was the right thing and about the right amount of money to do as a make good. They should also publish a postmortem explaining exactly what happened and why it won't happen again.
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Mar 8, 2018 19:23
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Warbird posted:I wonder if revive would proc that discount. It would be neat, but no loss if it doesn’t. The cert was actually a red herring to see who logged in with revive while rifts were down, lock your window! 
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Mar 8, 2018 19:39
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I'm just glad I decided to wait on buying Brass Tactics until I was done with a few games I'm playing. Bonus $15 makes picking that up a no-brainer now.
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Mar 8, 2018 20:03
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Warbird posted:Meanwhile the Bluetooth driver for the Vive has been sorta hosed for a year or so now on my system. Manky posted:e: Oh yeah, Big Screen is doing another movie night! Starting tomorrow: Stargate Origins. Not really a stargate fan but I'll try to check it out probably Not really a Stargate guy either, but I may check it out tonight if I have time to see what the public sessions are like. wyoak posted:What kind of space heater would you need to run to get two rifts/vives working in the same system SwissCM posted:If you install 2 graphics cards and have 8 or more CPU cores and a fair amount of RAM, you could use something like unRAID and run 2 virtual hosts, each getting it's own card. Performance is close to native, it's a pretty viable option. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXI7RrMFtB8 wyoak posted:Unless you mean using lighthouse 2.0 to perform tracking for two separate pc’s, which is kind of a moot point since the hopeful end game is standalone inside out tracking Lighthouse 2.0 enables more than two base stations to be used to support larger tracked areas and theoretically multiple rooms. For the average home user the only technical advantage is if you have a weird shaped room, obstructions, or otherwise end up with occlusion problems in your VR play area just like a third Rift camera. I'm still not sold on standalone inside-out tracking for gaming purposes. For simulation and training purposes where you're not going to be reaching in weird directions very often it's great, but for gaming the number of times I've made an action movie shot with a gun behind my back or otherwise outside of the tracking range of a MSMR type headset is high enough that I'm still firmly in the external tracking camp. Oculus' four camera system will probably help this whenever that sees the light of day, but it still won't be as good as a well positioned set of external reference points. In the distant future when we can cram enough smarts in to the controller to have them doing their own inside out thing, then sure, it'll be equal and the obvious choice. We're not there yet.
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Mar 8, 2018 20:18
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I go bug SteamVR support about it every so often and it works again. It seems that if I power cycle the base stations and the breakout box it’ll play nice for a while.
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Mar 8, 2018 20:22
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wolrah posted:I'm still not sold on standalone inside-out tracking for gaming purposes. For simulation and training purposes where you're not going to be reaching in weird directions very often it's great, but for gaming the number of times I've made an action movie shot with a gun behind my back or otherwise outside of the tracking range of a MSMR type headset is high enough that I'm still firmly in the external tracking camp. Oculus' four camera system will probably help this whenever that sees the light of day, but it still won't be as good as a well positioned set of external reference points. The vast, vast majority of games could account for the not totally 360 covered tracking behind your back. Realistically there aren't that many use cases where you need submillimeter accurate tracking for something behind your back that you can't see anyway. Just getting yaw/pitch/roll and then accounting for how you want to handle when you lose sight of the controller is going to be good enough in almost every case (the literal only thing I can think of that you couldn't handle somehow would be grabbing a surface behind you and throwing yourself off in Echo Arena). The problem with the external trackers is that they add cost and complexity, and that's a huge huge barrier in terms of getting mainstream adoption, and at this point a lack of a market is a much bigger obstacle to good games than having lower quality tracking in certain zones.
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Mar 8, 2018 20:24
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Lemming posted:The vast, vast majority of games could account for the not totally 360 covered tracking behind your back. Realistically there aren't that many use cases where you need submillimeter accurate tracking for something behind your back that you can't see anyway. Just getting yaw/pitch/roll and then accounting for how you want to handle when you lose sight of the controller is going to be good enough in almost every case (the literal only thing I can think of that you couldn't handle somehow would be grabbing a surface behind you and throwing yourself off in Echo Arena). The problem with the external trackers is that they add cost and complexity, and that's a huge huge barrier in terms of getting mainstream adoption, and at this point a lack of a market is a much bigger obstacle to good games than having lower quality tracking in certain zones. Well, except for the really obvious and very common use case: FPS games where you want to run in one direction and look around you while you continue to head in that direction which might mean looking away from your movement controller.
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Mar 8, 2018 20:49
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I think the other thing often ignored is there *will* be full body skeletal tracking for VR that will need an external camera. My hunch is gen 2, but if not then gen 3 without question since facebook has been showing off some skeletal tracking from a standard camera for over a year, kinect has been doing it for almost a decade, oculus even had hiring advertisements looking for people with experience on that sort of thing. VR wants more and more data about you to put into the world, and thats the only realistic way to track your body. No normal person is going to strap a half dozen sensors all over their body each time they want to jump into VR, but yet everyone will want to shake their hips in VR chat, kick something in gorn, shrug their shoulders, and everything else. Facial tracking will also come eventually (oculus showed off facial expression tracking a few years ago by just embedding a few sensors into the foam face padding) so you can smirk, smile, raise an eybrow, and glower at someone. Still, once you have inside out tracking for the controllers like santa cruz's range of vision:  and then combine that with full body skeletal tracking, it won't really matter when your hands are out of view, because with a decent IK model, even if your hand is out of view of the body tracking camera on your desk, it will know where your arm isn't enough to give a good idea of where it is, combined with the IMU data on the controllers themselves. You throw all that tracking data into a blender and in 99% of cases I don't think people will ever be able to tell there was an issue.
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Mar 8, 2018 20:50
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rage-saq posted:Well, except for the really obvious and very common use case: FPS games where you want to run in one direction and look around you while you continue to head in that direction which might mean looking away from your movement controller. But you just need the direction the controller is pointing in, not its absolute position; you can still keep the yaw/pitch/roll (since those sensors still work fine for this use case) which will maintain the correct direction. It just won't be able to tell exactly how high or how far away or whatever it is from you, but that doesn't matter.
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Mar 8, 2018 20:58
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Lemming posted:But you just need the direction the controller is pointing in, not its absolute position; you can still keep the yaw/pitch/roll (since those sensors still work fine for this use case) which will maintain the correct direction. It just won't be able to tell exactly how high or how far away or whatever it is from you, but that doesn't matter. Controller direction is the direction that determines where "forwards" in the game goes, I don't think the way that WMR currently handles loss of controller tracking is compatible with that, though thats not to say they couldn't do what you are suggesting and just keep it in the last seen position/direction.
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Mar 8, 2018 21:11
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rage-saq posted:Controller direction is the direction that determines where "forwards" in the game goes, I don't think the way that WMR currently handles loss of controller tracking is compatible with that, though thats not to say they couldn't do what you are suggesting and just keep it in the last seen position/direction. Windows handing something in a stupid way notwithstanding, you can see when a Rift controller loses tracking you can still rotate it fine, it just loses the ability to move its position, and the direction it's pointed in it still tracks well. You'd still need to account for it in the software, but it's not a technological limitation.
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Mar 8, 2018 21:16
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wyoak posted:What kind of space heater would you need to run to get two rifts/vives working in the same system This might interest you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXI7RrMFtB8
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Mar 8, 2018 22:26
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Tom Guycot posted:Still, once you have inside out tracking for the controllers like santa cruz's range of vision: Now that I think would be a great balance, having plain inside-out tracking as the baseline with the ability to add in external tracking. Santa Cruz covers most casual use cases, then a single Kinect 2 type sensor could add enough skeletal tracking for most advanced uses.
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Mar 8, 2018 22:30
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Lemming posted:Windows handing something in a stupid way notwithstanding, you can see when a Rift controller loses tracking you can still rotate it fine, it just loses the ability to move its position, and the direction it's pointed in it still tracks well. You'd still need to account for it in the software, but it's not a technological limitation. When the Rift controller loses positional tracking from the sensors (60fps relatively low quality) its IMU error rate accelerates (1000hz super fine quality) until its flying off into la la land. If you manage to keep the controller still enough from X/Y/Z changes and just have rx/ry/rz changes you can briefly get a relatively accurate data. If your controller is in the process of moving on the X/Y/Z planes while you lose the tracking it just keeps going. That example is exactly why this can be a bit of a problem and is reflected in the problems WMR currently experiences when you lose controller tracking. I'm sure some steps can be made to keep the X/Y/Z coordinates close enough to the original position upon loss of positional tracking that effective gameplay problems don't emerge but I don't know that we are very close to that at this point.
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Mar 8, 2018 22:33
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rage-saq posted:When the Rift controller loses positional tracking from the sensors (60fps relatively low quality) its IMU error rate accelerates (1000hz super fine quality) until its flying off into la la land. If you manage to keep the controller still enough from X/Y/Z changes and just have rx/ry/rz changes you can briefly get a relatively accurate data. If your controller is in the process of moving on the X/Y/Z planes while you lose the tracking it just keeps going. Those things aren't happening as an inherent consequence of the technology, it's because they expect the tracking to work all the time. You can try it out yourself in something like echo arena; hold the controller in a spot, cover it with something opaque, and you can see it still tracks yaw/pitch/roll perfectly well. This is how the gear VR and wii mote and motion mice all work. You calibrate a forward direction, and from there the sensors work well at maintaining those three degrees of freedom. Absolutely position isn't possible, but those are. Yeah right now they can disappear into the stratosphere, but again that's just how it's implemented and it can be changed relatively easily.
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Mar 8, 2018 22:53
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rage-saq posted:Controller direction is the direction that determines where "forwards" in the game goes, I don't think the way that WMR currently handles loss of controller tracking is compatible with that, though thats not to say they couldn't do what you are suggesting and just keep it in the last seen position/direction. It compensates kinda. Playing Space Pirate Trainer it did fine with the behind back grabs etc, and it does still do some gyro poo poo. wolrah posted:
IF they put side and or rear cameras on the dell to fill out the rear FOV, my tracking exp would have been as good or better than my 4 sensor rift*. Soooo I disagree. The tracking with just the 2 cameras is loving crazy good for what its doing. I was blown away personally. If the ipd or whatever could have been higher, i'd still have my WMR headset. Its a great mobile take around places VR. You got a friend who has a gaming rig? Wants to try VR? Don't wanna drag vive/rift/ Boom. Done. Plug and go. I was in VR in like 5 min. Want a VR for the couch? Bed? etc? But don't wanna use a gearVR and have "real" vr? Done. 1 cord no sensors. If it was more comfy, and the sweet spot was bigger for seeing (and it would adjust to my ipd), id be like using one so regularly its not even funny. *Keep in mind, I'm talking about them thinking about full coverage with cameras, I'm not sure how hard it would be for them to just add more, but lets assume 4 - 6 covers the whole area or whatever.
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Mar 8, 2018 23:16
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two quick questions about brass tactics: 1. is there a time limit on the games, or is that something you're able to set in one way or another? 2. is it like old RTS games where you can farm out the entire map and build up your army as large as you'd like before crushing the computer? I want to play AoE 2 but VR, basically
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Mar 9, 2018 00:54
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nickhimself posted:two quick questions about brass tactics: Download the demo trial free thing?
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Mar 9, 2018 01:02
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I only have the demo, but you capture sections of the map and place a building in the point in that section that can make one of three unit types.
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Mar 9, 2018 01:14
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EbolaIvory posted:Download the demo trial free thing? oh yeah, duh!
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Mar 9, 2018 03:52
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nickhimself posted:oh yeah, duh! Its really good fun esp. in coop
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Mar 9, 2018 11:15
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Perhaps there is still hope for knuckles and the valve vr games. "We aren't going to be talking about it today," Newell said, "but sort of the big thing, the new arrow we have in our quiver, really, is our ability to develop hardware and software simultaneously." https://www.pcgamer.com/gabe-newell-hooray-valves-going-to-start-shipping-games-again/
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Mar 9, 2018 14:12
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Can't wait for hl3 to be released with a full body force feedback HEV suit and crowbar controller
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Mar 9, 2018 16:42
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Seriously, I bet Gaben's dream for HL3 involves VR in some way. Immersion has been the series' MO since the get-go, and there's no better way to accomplish that.
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Mar 9, 2018 16:58
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Gaben only dreams about money now. I've lost all faith in Valve as a games company years ago. If they do bring something out that's actually a game changer, that's awesome and I'll be really hyped about it. But I expect literally nothing to come from them anymore that isn't a money grab
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Mar 9, 2018 17:26
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nickhimself posted:Gaben only dreams about money now. I've lost all faith in Valve as a games company years ago. If they do bring something out that's actually a game changer, that's awesome and I'll be really hyped about it. But I expect literally nothing to come from them anymore that isn't a money grab Don't worry, their next game is coming out soon, for real! It's a... collectible card... game. . .
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Mar 9, 2018 18:07
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dota themed too lol
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Mar 9, 2018 18:19
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Yeah, Valve said "well, we already have Dota assets and Hearthstone is gaining popularity... what if we developed a card game for several years? People will surely choose us over Blizzard, a company who still actively produces games and updates them with frequency above once every decade." Way to read the room, idiots. Make good on your past promises and deliver the content you told your fans they'd get before diving into territories already held by better companies than you.
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Mar 9, 2018 18:53
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Gabe Newel posted:"You can see that Microsoft was like, wow, how can we make Windows more like that? Or Zuckerberg is saying, 'well I tried to compete in the phones, I got my rear end kicked, so I'm going to create this new thing, VR, which will allow me to recreate the kind of closed, high margin ecosystem that Apple's done.' And that really started to worry us, because we thought that the strength of the PC is about its openness … So we started to make some investments to offset that."
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Mar 9, 2018 19:45
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Doesn't the Vive have more Vive only titles than Rift? I know Fallout 4 VR is nearly impossible to get working correctly on the Rift.
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Mar 9, 2018 20:03
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