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  • Locked thread
TheAgent
Feb 16, 2002

The call is coming from inside Dr. House
Grimey Drawer

A Neurotic Jew posted:

Here's another successful refund exchange that was posted on r/starcitizen_refunds today. Be persistent!
look, we said no a hundred times, but this time we're saying no we don't have to but here's your money anyway

we didn't have to do it, we're just being nice

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZD_I4-ZsD4

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Amarcarts
Feb 21, 2007

This looks a lot like suffering.
I was browsing down the list of promised features when I saw that they promised a Linux client and I poo poo my pants and died laughing.

TheAgent
Feb 16, 2002

The call is coming from inside Dr. House
Grimey Drawer

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:

lmao more loving reshoots. are these the 2nd round of reshoots? didn't they just wrap up the first reshoot session? honestly looking back on the wing commander movie, it's amazing it came out as well as it did because clearly croberts is super duper incompetent and can't even direct poo poo properly the first time.
this will now be the 4th full mocap session RSI has paid for

reminder: 18 hours+ of recorded footage

18

hours

18

loving

hours

I should mention the 18 hours does not include additional VA only work, only mocapped sessions with full movement/voice capture.

TheAgent fucked around with this message at 02:55 on Aug 11, 2016

ripptide
Jul 28, 2016

Harvey Baldman posted:

So I posted earlier about getting myself my $125 refunded. I'm an attorney, so I simply wrote a demand letter after the initial customer service interaction gave me a canned response of "Nope, terms of service, no refunds". I'm reproducing that below here in case it helps anyone, although I think being an attorney helped, and my specific facts made anything but a refund pretty much impossible for them to argue.




The day after I sent Ortwin my demand letter by e-mail, I got my refund. Like, within 12 hours. It was nice, and I decided to forget entirely about the game.

Until! I got a letter this afternoon from one of CIG's other attorneys. I'm honestly not sure why they bothered to respond with a letter two weeks after giving me a refund, but I share it here for entertainment purposes.



Honestly? I kinda feel bad for this guy, so I've elected to blur out his name, because he's not Ortwin and I don't want Herr Overlord Derek adding another name to his dartboard.

Congrats on the refund. Yea, that second letter is a pretty common one now, especially in response to complaints thru the DCBA. Mine also had a section of how the complaints I outlined were "completely unfounded and based on internet gossip".

A_ssR_apistDude420
Aug 9, 2016

by Cowcaster

Colostomy Bag posted:

Go slow commando...work your way in, I will help you.

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/338602/when-do-we-get-cargo/p4

im having fun and no one can stop it it not even the literally insane guy with the old man avatar who posts like a retarded yoda.

AlbieQuirky
Oct 9, 2012

Just me and my 🌊dragon🐉 hanging out

Harvey Baldman posted:

A-ha! The joke is on you, RSI, because when I made my pledge I had my fingers crossed behind my back! Now I shall take all of your pogs!

You said they were to be advised accordingly. I'm not wrong in assuming that this is the lawyerly equivalent of "you BETTER run!" on the schoolyard, am I?

alf_pogs
Feb 15, 2012


A_ssR_apistDude420 posted:

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/338602/when-do-we-get-cargo/p4

im having fun and no one can stop it it not even the literally insane guy with the old man avatar who posts like a retarded yoda.

A_ssR_apistDude420
Aug 9, 2016

by Cowcaster

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:

alpha / beta terminology: this isn't how it works. this isn't how any of this stuff works :psyduck:

also lol the prelude. SQ42: Episode 1: Ch1: Mission 1: Prelude

lmao more loving reshoots. are these the 2nd round of reshoots? didn't they just wrap up the first reshoot session? honestly looking back on the wing commander movie, it's amazing it came out as well as it did because clearly croberts is super duper incompetent and can't even direct poo poo properly the first time.

derek and his ilk said theyd never reach beta but who is laughing now you loving goons.

Gramps
Dec 30, 2006


What the gently caress 18 hours? How? What? This made me laugh harder than anything else in the thread.

A_ssR_apistDude420
Aug 9, 2016

by Cowcaster

AlbieQuirky posted:

You said they were to be advised accordingly. I'm not wrong in assuming that this is the lawyerly equivalent of "you BETTER run!" on the schoolyard, am I?

they send those because they dont want the fact they gave a refund as precedent of their belief that the customer was right. So they just did it out of the niceness of their hearts and we're choosing too.

Kind of like when the bully makes you eat dirt you actually do open your own mouth and eat it.

A_ssR_apistDude420
Aug 9, 2016

by Cowcaster

alf_pogs
Feb 15, 2012


A_ssR_apistDude420 posted:

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/338602/when-do-we-get-cargo/p4

im having fun and no one can stop it it not even the literally insane guy with the old man avatar who posts like a retarded yoda.

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK
Sep 11, 2001



TheAgent posted:

this will now be the 4th full mocap session RSI has paid for

reminder: 18 hours+ of recorded footage

18

hours

18

loving

hours

I should mention the 18 hours does not include additional VA only work, only mocapped sessions with full movement/voice capture.

18 hours FOR EPISODE 1. or who knows what the gently caress

god crobbers you are stupid

ripptide
Jul 28, 2016

TheAgent posted:

hello

some of this is a rehash

  • people are now working up to 20 hours a day trying to get 2.5 gamescom ready (internally called the "chriscom" build)
  • 2.4.1 might be used because of the large amount of showstopping bugs in 2.5
  • there's no secret working 2.6 or 2.7 build that will be magically unveiled at gamescom
  • all the PG or other cool stuff they've shown off is very, very early WIP and unusable in engine (POC)
  • 3.0 is now 100% officially a thing -- might be called "SC Beta 1.0" now (gamescom/citizencon reveal)
  • there's been some problem getting everyone to gamescom (not sure if just delta problems or otherwise)
  • more mocap reshoots for both new SC and SQ42 content slated for october this year
  • SQ42 prelude is now 100% confirmed: basically SQ42: Title: Prelude/Skirmish (early marketing mock ups)
  • massive problem with new art/models that are "unacceptable" according to Chris (no elaboration)
  • seamless transitions from landing zones to space are now just loading screens (sq42)
  • first missions for sq42 limited to ship-to-ship combat only (additional FPS after prelude, exploration still in as of now)

I can't wait for the rationalizations in the reddit echo chamber on this one if it happens....

Beer4TheBeerGod
Aug 23, 2004
Exciting Lemon

TheAgent posted:

hello

some of this is a rehash

  • people are now working up to 20 hours a day trying to get 2.5 gamescom ready (internally called the "chriscom" build)
  • 2.4.1 might be used because of the large amount of showstopping bugs in 2.5
  • there's no secret working 2.6 or 2.7 build that will be magically unveiled at gamescom
  • all the PG or other cool stuff they've shown off is very, very early WIP and unusable in engine (POC)
  • 3.0 is now 100% officially a thing -- might be called "SC Beta 1.0" now (gamescom/citizencon reveal)
  • there's been some problem getting everyone to gamescom (not sure if just delta problems or otherwise)
  • more mocap reshoots for both new SC and SQ42 content slated for october this year
  • SQ42 prelude is now 100% confirmed: basically SQ42: Title: Prelude/Skirmish (early marketing mock ups)
  • massive problem with new art/models that are "unacceptable" according to Chris (no elaboration)
  • seamless transitions from landing zones to space are now just loading screens (sq42)
  • first missions for sq42 limited to ship-to-ship combat only (additional FPS after prelude, exploration still in as of now)

Have they abandoned the concept of Squadron 42 being open world yet?

trucutru
Jul 9, 2003

by Fluffdaddy

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

Have they abandoned the concept of Squadron 42 being open world yet?

SQ42 the post-prelude: Episode 2.3, will probably have some open world elements but it's not until SQ42 reloaded: the post-sequel, episode 14b-2 that you'll get the complete package.

A_ssR_apistDude420
Aug 9, 2016

by Cowcaster

TheAgent posted:

hello

some of this is a rehash

  • people are now working up to 20 hours a day trying to get 2.5 gamescom ready (internally called the "chriscom" build)
  • 2.4.1 might be used because of the large amount of showstopping bugs in 2.5
  • there's no secret working 2.6 or 2.7 build that will be magically unveiled at gamescom
  • all the PG or other cool stuff they've shown off is very, very early WIP and unusable in engine (POC)
  • 3.0 is now 100% officially a thing -- might be called "SC Beta 1.0" now (gamescom/citizencon reveal)
  • there's been some problem getting everyone to gamescom (not sure if just delta problems or otherwise)
  • more mocap reshoots for both new SC and SQ42 content slated for october this year
  • SQ42 prelude is now 100% confirmed: basically SQ42: Title: Prelude/Skirmish (early marketing mock ups)
  • massive problem with new art/models that are "unacceptable" according to Chris (no elaboration)
  • seamless transitions from landing zones to space are now just loading screens (sq42)
  • first missions for sq42 limited to ship-to-ship combat only (additional FPS after prelude, exploration still in as of now)

nice


Citizens wait for gamescom, I wait for Agent truths to become apparent.

XK
Jul 9, 2001

Star Citizen is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it's fidelity when you look out your window or when you watch youtube

Harvey Baldman posted:

So I posted earlier about getting myself my $125 refunded. I'm an attorney, so I simply wrote a demand letter after the initial customer service interaction gave me a canned response of "Nope, terms of service, no refunds". I'm reproducing that below here in case it helps anyone, although I think being an attorney helped, and my specific facts made anything but a refund pretty much impossible for them to argue.




The day after I sent Ortwin my demand letter by e-mail, I got my refund. Like, within 12 hours. It was nice, and I decided to forget entirely about the game.

Until! I got a letter this afternoon from one of CIG's other attorneys. I'm honestly not sure why they bothered to respond with a letter two weeks after giving me a refund, but I share it here for entertainment purposes.



Honestly? I kinda feel bad for this guy, so I've elected to blur out his name, because he's not Ortwin and I don't want Herr Overlord Derek adding another name to his dartboard.

I love how they keep trying to push that "unearned portion" terminology. It's completely meaningless. Just because CIG spent it doesn't mean they earned it. You earn money by providing goods or services, neither of which CIG has done. I'd have a really hard time not responding to that letter by pointing out to them that they have earned nothing.

Mercury_Storm
Jun 12, 2003

*chomp chomp chomp*
Is there any viable legal reason whatsoever for those "OH BY THE WAY we didn't have to refund lol!" letters?

If they were brought up in a court I somehow doubt they would be going anywhere but a trashbin.

A_ssR_apistDude420
Aug 9, 2016

by Cowcaster

Mercury_Storm posted:

Is there any viable legal reason whatsoever for those "OH BY THE WAY we didn't have to refund lol!" letters?

If they were brought up in a court I somehow doubt they would be going anywhere but a trashbin.

the 'idea' is they want to make it extra clear they aren't admitting liability by giving refunds (and therefore setting precedent in a future legal case). Whether that will actually work I have no clue.

D1E
Nov 25, 2001


Holy poo poo, 2.5 must be goddamn terrible if CIG thinks it has too many showstopping bugs to use it as Gamescom.

I mean, have you seen every other PU build they have ever released to the public?

WhiskeyWhiskers
Oct 14, 2013


"هذا ليس عادلاً."
"هذا ليس عادلاً على الإطلاق."
"كان هناك وقت الآن."
(السياق الخفي: للقراءة)

TheAgent posted:

hello

some of this is a rehash

  • people are now working up to 20 hours a day trying to get 2.5 gamescom ready (internally called the "chriscom" build)
  • 2.4.1 might be used because of the large amount of showstopping bugs in 2.5
  • there's no secret working 2.6 or 2.7 build that will be magically unveiled at gamescom
  • all the PG or other cool stuff they've shown off is very, very early WIP and unusable in engine (POC)
  • 3.0 is now 100% officially a thing -- might be called "SC Beta 1.0" now (gamescom/citizencon reveal)
  • there's been some problem getting everyone to gamescom (not sure if just delta problems or otherwise)
  • more mocap reshoots for both new SC and SQ42 content slated for october this year
  • SQ42 prelude is now 100% confirmed: basically SQ42: Title: Prelude/Skirmish (early marketing mock ups)
  • massive problem with new art/models that are "unacceptable" according to Chris (no elaboration)
  • seamless transitions from landing zones to space are now just loading screens (sq42)
  • first missions for sq42 limited to ship-to-ship combat only (additional FPS after prelude, exploration still in as of now)

Can't figure out if this is a smart way to spin up a new line of defence for shills to use, or whether it will finally make those who have been telling everyone as loudly they can that they obviously don't know alpha's are meant to be heaping piles of garbage break.

WhiskeyWhiskers fucked around with this message at 03:18 on Aug 11, 2016

A_ssR_apistDude420
Aug 9, 2016

by Cowcaster
From the bug reports and reddit feedback it seems to be the same lovely FPS just with some fun new jank.

I guess they're freking because at gamescom the people watching it won't have a personal stake in the game and won't gloss over 95% of the bugs.

So CR said "hey you know all that poo poo I told you to forget about for months and that we will deal with later? Yea actually fix that mountain of bugs now for gamescom"

Harvey Baldman
Jan 11, 2011

ATTORNEY AT LAW
Justice is bald, like an eagle, or Lady Liberty's docket.

A_ssR_apistDude420 posted:

the 'idea' is they want to make it extra clear they aren't admitting liability by giving refunds (and therefore setting precedent in a future legal case). Whether that will actually work I have no clue.

I don't know that it could necessarily be held up as precedent - the fact that they're giving the refund at all to so many people is probably sufficient, regardless of whatever language they couch it in. It's not like a judge is going to look at the situation and go "Oh, well, they did their due diligence in denying liability, so... case dismissed".

WhiskeyWhiskers
Oct 14, 2013


"هذا ليس عادلاً."
"هذا ليس عادلاً على الإطلاق."
"كان هناك وقت الآن."
(السياق الخفي: للقراءة)

Mercury_Storm posted:

Is there any viable legal reason whatsoever for those "OH BY THE WAY we didn't have to refund lol!" letters?

If they were brought up in a court I somehow doubt they would be going anywhere but a trashbin.

Seems like it would be pretty reckless when you also have specific consumer guarantees in Australia that companies can't lie or misinform you about your consumer rights.

SniperWoreConverse
Mar 20, 2010



Gun Saliva
Just caught up

Lol 3.0

Did anyone figure out the identity of the tickler?

Blue On Blue
Nov 14, 2012

I hope beyond hope that one of these days they just flat out reject a refund , and that person takes them to court

Who will they send to take the stand , Crobbers ? Too high

Mrs Crobbers ? Off shooting a Made for TV movie

So it will be Ortwin , little Ortwin , Ben , and the hobo. Trying to explain how they really are trying

But where is your ceo ? Well your honor he's off umm .... directing .... you see its complicated , he does a LOT of drugs

A_ssR_apistDude420
Aug 9, 2016

by Cowcaster
The RSI forums are really cool because you'll have people unironically saying the mobile phone game way of monetization is the fairest for everyone concerned.

Colostomy Bag
Jan 11, 2016

:lesnick: C-Bangin' it :lesnick:

A_ssR_apistDude420 posted:

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/338602/when-do-we-get-cargo/p4

im having fun and no one can stop it it not even the literally insane guy with the old man avatar who posts like a retarded yoda.

You went in hot commando and pulled out at the right time. You were like a horny teen doing the pull-out.

Kicker is, you can keep doing it and they won't catch it.

Harvey Baldman
Jan 11, 2011

ATTORNEY AT LAW
Justice is bald, like an eagle, or Lady Liberty's docket.

Sappo569 posted:

I hope beyond hope that one of these days they just flat out reject a refund , and that person takes them to court

Who will they send to take the stand , Crobbers ? Too high

Mrs Crobbers ? Off shooting a Made for TV movie

So it will be Ortwin , little Ortwin , Ben , and the hobo. Trying to explain how they really are trying

But where is your ceo ? Well your honor he's off umm .... directing .... you see its complicated , he does a LOT of drugs

Lol if you think anyone's going to even respond to your legal complaint unless you're one of the, like, 15k packages. They'll let you get a default judgment after you spend a day in court with nobody showing up to defend the claim, then watch you struggle for six months to enforce the judgment against the shell game of company assets they inevitably have. I would have done it, but mostly just for my own entertainment.

Mercury_Storm
Jun 12, 2003

*chomp chomp chomp*

WhiskeyWhiskers posted:

Seems like it would be pretty reckless when you also have specific consumer guarantees in Australia that companies can't lie or misinform you about your consumer rights.

Yeah I think the letters are more of a blatant (and bad) attempt to dissuade others from seeking the refunds they're owed if they so choose.

phosdex
Dec 16, 2005

A Neurotic Jew posted:

Here's another successful refund exchange that was posted on r/starcitizen_refunds today. Be persistent!

haha drat, "while quite a lot of the promised gameplay is now available, we acknowledge that delivery of some game elements has been delayed. THIS IS A DIRECT RESULT OF THE COMMUNITY'S DECLARED DESIRE to have the initial release version of the game developed to a much greater depth, detail and fidelity" etc. It's all the communities fault that the game isn't done guys.

TheAgent
Feb 16, 2002

The call is coming from inside Dr. House
Grimey Drawer

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

Have they abandoned the concept of Squadron 42 being open world yet?
as it was told to me:

there's still a full on first person exploration thing going (ship, segments of planets, certain areas) but there's no FPS combat in the prelude

you can still warp around to different places and explore but they are basically either space stations or cutscenes to take you planetside (note: you visit all of these during the course of the game but can go back later)

the real problem they are having is with the fps AI, which has difficulty navigating their prefab environs (everything they build is in little prefab block segments, which is why you can run through walls and poo poo)

problems include:
  • no one loving understood the vanduul are like 3 feet higher than the player, so interior set pieces featuring vanduul enemies had to be scrapped and started over
  • ^ lol, just read that. I can't even loving believe that
  • an entire game about fighting the space aliens doesn't have any space aliens in it in first person (humans only so far in the fps segments, vanduul ships and carriers will appear in space to fight)
  • human AI shoots through walls and floors and basically everywhere
  • each FPS encounter is hand scripted, ie this npc goes here, this npc will go here after trigger x
  • the vast majority of sq42 has been filmed but less than 10% of it is workable in engine at this point (think everyone looking morrow tour levels or worse)
  • single player character upgrade system is a complete mess, has been scrapped twice and is currently slated to be scrapped again
  • cover mechanics still ???

fyi this is why you dont design a
  • a fps
  • a rpg
  • a space fighting game
  • an exploration game
  • a pg world game
  • an mmo
  • a single player game
  • 18 hours of mocap footage
together at the same time

Brazilianpeanutwar
Aug 27, 2015

Spent my walletfull, on a jpeg, desolate, will croberts make a whale of me yet?

TheAgent posted:

as it was told to me:

there's still a full on first person exploration thing going (ship, segments of planets, certain areas) but there's no FPS combat in the prelude

you can still warp around to different places and explore but they are basically either space stations or cutscenes to take you planetside (note: you visit all of these during the course of the game but can go back later)

the real problem they are having is with the fps AI, which has difficulty navigating their prefab environs (everything they build is in little prefab block segments, which is why you can run through walls and poo poo)

problems include:
  • no one loving understood the vanduul are like 3 feet higher than the player, so interior set pieces featuring vanduul enemies had to be scrapped and started over
  • ^ lol, just read that. I can't even loving believe that
  • an entire game about fighting the space aliens doesn't have any space aliens in it in first person (humans only so far in the fps segments, vanduul ships and carriers will appear in space to fight)
  • human AI shoots through walls and floors and basically everywhere
  • each FPS encounter is hand scripted, ie this npc goes here, this npc will go here after trigger x
  • the vast majority of sq42 has been filmed but less than 10% of it is workable in engine at this point (think everyone looking morrow tour levels or worse)
  • single player character upgrade system is a complete mess, has been scrapped twice and is currently slated to be scrapped again
  • cover mechanics still ???

fyi this is why you dont design a
  • a fps
  • a rpg
  • a space fighting game
  • an exploration game
  • a pg world game
  • an mmo
  • a single player game
  • 18 hours of mocap footage
together at the same time

Only registered members can see post attachments!

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK
Sep 11, 2001



quote:

no one loving understood the vanduul are like 3 feet higher than the player, so interior set pieces featuring vanduul enemies had to be scrapped and started over

hahahha

I'm sure a competent developer could do it.

But definitely not crobbers

No Mods No Masters
Oct 3, 2004

I'm glad of it

WhiskeyWhiskers
Oct 14, 2013


"هذا ليس عادلاً."
"هذا ليس عادلاً على الإطلاق."
"كان هناك وقت الآن."
(السياق الخفي: للقراءة)

TheAgent posted:

as it was told to me:

there's still a full on first person exploration thing going (ship, segments of planets, certain areas) but there's no FPS combat in the prelude

you can still warp around to different places and explore but they are basically either space stations or cutscenes to take you planetside (note: you visit all of these during the course of the game but can go back later)

the real problem they are having is with the fps AI, which has difficulty navigating their prefab environs (everything they build is in little prefab block segments, which is why you can run through walls and poo poo)

problems include:
  • no one loving understood the vanduul are like 3 feet higher than the player, so interior set pieces featuring vanduul enemies had to be scrapped and started over
  • ^ lol, just read that. I can't even loving believe that
  • an entire game about fighting the space aliens doesn't have any space aliens in it in first person (humans only so far in the fps segments, vanduul ships and carriers will appear in space to fight)
  • human AI shoots through walls and floors and basically everywhere
  • each FPS encounter is hand scripted, ie this npc goes here, this npc will go here after trigger x
  • the vast majority of sq42 has been filmed but less than 10% of it is workable in engine at this point (think everyone looking morrow tour levels or worse)
  • single player character upgrade system is a complete mess, has been scrapped twice and is currently slated to be scrapped again
  • cover mechanics still ???

fyi this is why you dont design a
  • a fps
  • a rpg
  • a space fighting game
  • an exploration game
  • a pg world game
  • an mmo
  • a single player game
  • 18 hours of mocap footage
together at the same time

lol. Didn't the Crobbler say there wouldn't be any skills or levels system and it would all be based on player twitch skill? Let's just throw some more poo poo at the fan until it sticks.

SelenicMartian
Sep 14, 2013

Sometimes it's not the bomb that's retarded.

Angels Fall First has received a new update that shits on CIG
http://steamcommunity.com/games/367270/announcements/detail/930377397318155275
"We've rewritten the whole netcode for the space part - now it uses up to 100 times less bandwidth."

A_ssR_apistDude420
Aug 9, 2016

by Cowcaster

TheAgent posted:

as it was told to me:

there's still a full on first person exploration thing going (ship, segments of planets, certain areas) but there's no FPS combat in the prelude

you can still warp around to different places and explore but they are basically either space stations or cutscenes to take you planetside (note: you visit all of these during the course of the game but can go back later)

the real problem they are having is with the fps AI, which has difficulty navigating their prefab environs (everything they build is in little prefab block segments, which is why you can run through walls and poo poo)

problems include:
  • no one loving understood the vanduul are like 3 feet higher than the player, so interior set pieces featuring vanduul enemies had to be scrapped and started over
  • ^ lol, just read that. I can't even loving believe that
  • an entire game about fighting the space aliens doesn't have any space aliens in it in first person (humans only so far in the fps segments, vanduul ships and carriers will appear in space to fight)
  • human AI shoots through walls and floors and basically everywhere
  • each FPS encounter is hand scripted, ie this npc goes here, this npc will go here after trigger x
  • the vast majority of sq42 has been filmed but less than 10% of it is workable in engine at this point (think everyone looking morrow tour levels or worse)
  • single player character upgrade system is a complete mess, has been scrapped twice and is currently slated to be scrapped again
  • cover mechanics still ???

fyi this is why you dont design a
  • a fps
  • a rpg
  • a space fighting game
  • an exploration game
  • a pg world game
  • an mmo
  • a single player game
  • 18 hours of mocap footage
together at the same time

i need more gimme all you got. one more hit

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Brazilianpeanutwar
Aug 27, 2015

Spent my walletfull, on a jpeg, desolate, will croberts make a whale of me yet?
How can anything look worse than the morrow tour? I must see this!

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