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mdemone posted:Hal is the narrator in both of these parts, and we know that his memory is not perfect (despite what he may think) and some of his recollections are unreliable. mods please make the reductio ad severian a bannable offence
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May 4, 2020 21:06
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Infinite ajest is good it has a lot of funny parts and it taught me how to shave but it is also pretty far up its own rear end, you know. I am making paltry progress in Gravity's Rainbow. I did find the part I remembered where pointsman gets his foot stuck in a toilet bowl. Very funny. That was followed by a character journeying (on sodium amytal) through a toilet and becoming very attuned to different flavors of poo poo. It's mostly good but I really fail to understand what exactly Pynchon was going for in some scenes. Someone referenced the Weisenburger companion and it's been entertaining to compare my idea of what happened in a scene and Weisenburger's summary. I am often very very wrong.
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May 4, 2020 22:04
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Tree Goat posted:oh was it the clt? i remembered it as him misunderstanding the mvt No I think you're right but the errors are similar in kind.
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May 4, 2020 23:49
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apophenium posted:I am making paltry progress in Gravity's Rainbow. I did find the part I remembered where pointsman gets his foot stuck in a toilet bowl. Very funny. That was followed by a character journeying (on sodium amytal) through a toilet and becoming very attuned to different flavors of poo poo. I finished GR recently and watched Trainspotting for the first time this weekend. Obi-Wan Kenobi goes head first into a toilet drugged out and swims around, and I said "Hey... This is kind of like GR!" As it turns out, it was a specific reference. I do get these  moments lately for coincidences like that. Thanks Pynchon. (Oh and Mr. Pynchon, Sorry I looked at those leaked pictures of you going to vote with your son, it's cool though, you're still enigmatic....)
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May 5, 2020 00:07
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Bilirubin posted:How did he not draw Cetology? He got the chapter that discusses overfishing and extinction (even if it ultimately says that whales will be fine), wouldn't be surprised if he picked it himself
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May 5, 2020 09:37
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Getsuya posted:Uh... I like the Divine Comedy! Mostly for the horror elements sorry. jesus christ
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May 5, 2020 18:43
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chernobyl kinsman posted:jesus christ pre:28 vid’ i’ sopra migliaia di lucerne 29 un sol che tutte quante l’accendea, 30 come fa ’l nostro le viste superne; 31 e per la viva luce trasparea 32 la lucente sustanza tanto chiara 33 nel viso mio, che non la sostenea.
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May 5, 2020 19:22
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Hey I said I was sorry. Currently getting started on the path to adulthood with The Iliad (the prose version which I hope doesn’t somehow disqualify me). So far my important take away is don’t try to grab the corpse of some fallen hero while the battle is still raging around you. On a more serious note honestly this reminds me of reading battles in The Bible or The Book of Mormon except with a little more play-by-play. Which is throwing me off a little because most battles in The Book of Mormon are allegories for overcoming or falling to temptation so I’m sitting here like ‘yes but what does this battle teach me about sin?’ Anyway going good so far.
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May 5, 2020 19:24
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In my transition from genre reader to LIT RAH CHUR reader I found that once I learned not to look at a book as 90% fuse that you burn through asap to get to the bomb at the end, it made reading each page much more enjoyable. Each scene, moment, description, whatever, is a thing to be experienced and enjoyed on its own, instead of just being a piece of information to lead you on to the next step, repeated ad nauseum, until some big reveal at the end.
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May 5, 2020 20:00
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derp posted:In my transition from genre reader to LIT RAH CHUR reader I found that once I learned not to look at a book as 90% fuse that you burn through asap to get to the bomb at the end, it made reading each page much more enjoyable. Each scene, moment, description, whatever, is a thing to be experienced and enjoyed on its own, instead of just being a piece of information to lead you on to the next step, repeated ad nauseum, until some big reveal at the end. Yeah, this is a thought cycle a lot of people fall into. That, and the idea that novels, poems and other works of literature are puzzles written in code that can only be deciphered by scholars.
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May 5, 2020 20:05
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Getsuya posted:Currently getting started on the path to adulthood with The Iliad (the prose version which I hope doesn’t somehow disqualify me). i have some extremely bad news for you
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May 5, 2020 20:10
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Franchescanado posted:Yeah, this is a thought cycle a lot of people fall into. That, and the idea that novels, poems and other works of literature are puzzles written in code that can only be deciphered by scholars. Or the fear of having "missed something," only to have it pointed out to you and feeling some kind of shame that you weren't smart enough to catch an allusion to a book you haven't read or some clever turn of phrase that didn't register. I've known a number of people who fear feeling "dumb" when reading something and thus stick to the most bog standard straightforward stuff they can.
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May 5, 2020 20:11
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Getsuya posted:Currently getting started on the path to adulthood with The Iliad (the prose version which I hope doesn’t somehow disqualify me). is it the war nerd iliad?
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May 5, 2020 20:19
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Heath posted:Or the fear of having "missed something," only to have it pointed out to you and feeling some kind of shame that you weren't smart enough to catch an allusion to a book you haven't read or some clever turn of phrase that didn't register. I've known a number of people who fear feeling "dumb" when reading something and thus stick to the most bog standard straightforward stuff they can. I love feeling dumb when I'm reading something, which luckily happens constantly since I am extremely dumb
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May 5, 2020 20:19
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derp posted:In my transition from genre reader to LIT RAH CHUR reader I found that once I learned not to look at a book as 90% fuse that you burn through asap to get to the bomb at the end, it made reading each page much more enjoyable. Each scene, moment, description, whatever, is a thing to be experienced and enjoyed on its own, instead of just being a piece of information to lead you on to the next step, repeated ad nauseum, until some big reveal at the end. Heath posted:Or the fear of having "missed something," only to have it pointed out to you and feeling some kind of shame that you weren't smart enough to catch an allusion to a book you haven't read or some clever turn of phrase that didn't register. I've known a number of people who fear feeling "dumb" when reading something and thus stick to the most bog standard straightforward stuff they can. Franchescanado posted:Yeah, this is a thought cycle a lot of people fall into. That, and the idea that novels, poems and other works of literature are puzzles written in code that can only be deciphered by scholars. This is actually really important and cool advice because that’s pretty much how I felt going into this thing. ‘Okay time to find That One Cool Thing that makes this book Literature and post about it like it’s some shibboleth that’ll get me into the adult club’. Thankfully I realized that doing so would turn ‘reading’ literature into a chore and prevent me from actually enjoying it so now I just have a notepad where I write down particularly interesting turns of phrase or memorable bits of dialogue or character. It’s much more entertaining now. Edit: I’m listening to the Butler translation. It’s very visceral. Edit2: Not that I picked it. It just had a high rating on LibriVox so I went with it. It was this or Pope. Getsuya fucked around with this message at 20:24 on May 5, 2020 |
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May 5, 2020 20:21
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The obverse of the feeling dumb thing is that the more you read the more likely you are to pick up those allusions and turns of phrase in other things you read, and catching those things feels a lot more gratifying than the feeling of having missed them embarrasses you. After all, you don't know when you miss something because you missed it, but when you notice a layer you feel the gratification in the moment and engage more fully with what you're reading. Basically if you don't want literature to make you feel dumb, read more of it.
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May 5, 2020 20:35
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as a teacher it’s a real dilemma because I really want the students to get into literature just because of the amount of pleasure reading can give you, but then I’m also bound by national curricula and finals which focus on analysis, and treating each text as a puzzle that you need to pick apart so you can show that A symbolises B, and this is a key trait of romanticism because of C, so I try to balance that as best I can in classes by giving them assignments which is basically “which excerpt or sentence really stuck with you? what did you find particularly interesting on a personal level?” etc just to try to remind them that reading is also supposed to be fun and that books/poems can surprise you in unexpected ways
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May 5, 2020 20:55
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ulvir posted:as a teacher it’s a real dilemma because I really want the students to get into literature just because of the amount of pleasure reading can give you, but then I’m also bound by national curricula and finals which focus on analysis, and treating each text as a puzzle that you need to pick apart so you can show that A symbolises B, and this is a key trait of romanticism because of C, so I try to balance that as best I can in classes by giving them assignments which is basically “which excerpt or sentence really stuck with you? what did you find particularly interesting on a personal level?” etc just to try to remind them that reading is also supposed to be fun and that books/poems can surprise you in unexpected ways Remind them that they're allowed to say that the book sucks, is stupid, has dumb characters or plot, but they have to specify why the book sucks, why the book is stupid, what they don't like about the characters or plot. Use examples! Quotes! My favorite English teacher did not like most of the books we read junior year and it owned. We also tended to buy into her saying that other books might be cool (including some we were required to read).
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May 5, 2020 21:15
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I think if my teachers had asked me to explain why a book sucked it would have made it a lot more enticing to read it. I couldn't tell you poo poo about A Separate Peace except that I was deeply uninterested in it and the only thing I remember is the teacher having to explain the meaning of giving something "the old college try" and even that I only remember because it was an extremely bizarre phrase in addition to being very antiquated. I probably could have written a bad paper about that
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May 5, 2020 21:36
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Had one teacher in HS that sucked, but what do you expect from an ORU grad that tried to evangelize the class when reading the Rubaiyat... Trying to remember my favourite books read in high school. Probably Lord of the Flies, Animal Farm, Metamorphosis, 1984. The Pearl, from junior high, sticks with me for some reason. The play JB, a retelling of Job, that classmates used to torture said ORU teacher by strongly siding with Satan, and writing essays comparing that Satan with those found in Faust, Paradise Lost, etc was pretty funny.
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May 6, 2020 00:24
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The only books I remember reading were Animal Farm of course, Flowers for Algernon, To Kill a Mockingbird, A Separate Peace, and probably something else I'll think of later
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May 6, 2020 01:01
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Getsuya posted:Hey I said I was sorry. well parts of the old testament and the iliad are from the same rough time period and adjacent cultural regions with strong influence from oral culture, and smith is consciously trying to ape the OT's style in the book of mormon, so there are real similarities chernobyl kinsman fucked around with this message at 01:31 on May 6, 2020 |
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May 6, 2020 01:29
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started reading 2666, and am not far enough into it to say much but I like it a lot so far, however I can say that the version I got is extremely aesthetically pleasing. There is no tagline or quotes or blurb describing anything anywhere on the exterior of any of the three volumes in the set. all of that junk was on the box that held them, which was damaged so I threw away. So im left with 3 books with just a title and cover art, no other junk pasted all over it. not even the author name which is only visible on the spine. love it.
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May 6, 2020 03:51
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By Night in Chile is excellent, and makes me determined to read 2666.
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May 6, 2020 05:37
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The North Tower posted:Remind them that they're allowed to say that the book sucks, is stupid, has dumb characters or plot, but they have to specify why the book sucks, why the book is stupid, what they don't like about the characters or plot. Use examples! Quotes! Literally every person who waves away Catcher in the Rye because Holden is whiny. Like, there's so much going on in that book, that so many people just dismiss it offhand because they don't sympathize with the traumatized teenage protagonist.
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May 6, 2020 06:01
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I’ve decided to take a break from turnip selling to try and read a book for grown ups: Moby Dick. However I’ve discovered my brain is completely liquified from years of passive consumption of media. Any advice for getting focused enough to read again?
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May 6, 2020 14:01
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try reading on the time of day/week when you know you aren’t exhausted or mentally preoccupied. set yourself a timeslot of say one hour and read what you can without fretting too much over how few or many pages you need to read. just read in a pace that’s comfortable without needing to reread paragraphs if you like you can skim a summary/review about the novel just to get the gist of it before you dig in
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May 6, 2020 14:12
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derp posted:In my transition from genre reader to LIT RAH CHUR reader I found that once I learned not to look at a book as 90% fuse that you burn through asap to get to the bomb at the end, it made reading each page much more enjoyable. Each scene, moment, description, whatever, is a thing to be experienced and enjoyed on its own, instead of just being a piece of information to lead you on to the next step, repeated ad nauseum, until some big reveal at the end. I'm reading a Stephen king book for the first time since high school cause my friend wants me to and it really feels like most of the prose is just scene setting or the idling thoughts of the narrator that has not much bearing on anything really and it's driving me up the wall Meanwhile I just finished Lanark and Baron Wenkheim's Homecoming, both of which are extremely good hope and vaseline fucked around with this message at 15:01 on May 6, 2020 |
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May 6, 2020 14:59
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Ughh double post
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May 6, 2020 15:00
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The North Tower posted:Remind them that they're allowed to say that the book sucks, is stupid, has dumb characters or plot, but they have to specify why the book sucks, why the book is stupid, what they don't like about the characters or plot. Use examples! Quotes! I’m a bit hesitant to include “hate/didn’t like” into the classroom because I want them to engage with texts on a deeper level than just “ugh this character is a piece of poo poo that I can’t relate to”, there’s more than enough of that online. but sometimes assignments opens up for a personal evaluation like a report/review, where they can end with a “I recommend/don’t recommend this book because...”, but for the most part I instruct them all to look for things that are interesting or something that catches their attention, and leave it to them to describe/define what that is, and usually everyone finds at least something and I think that’s more valuable I’m also free to choose texts on my own, so I try to give them stuff that doesn’t outright suck
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May 6, 2020 15:13
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Thanks I’ll give that a try. When I’ve noticed myself having to reread passages a lot I take that as a sign to put the book down for a bit.
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May 6, 2020 15:22
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ulvir posted:I’m a bit hesitant to include “hate/didn’t like” into the classroom because I want them to engage with texts on a deeper level than just “ugh this character is a piece of poo poo that I can’t relate to”, there’s more than enough of that online. but sometimes assignments opens up for a personal evaluation like a report/review, where they can end with a “I recommend/don’t recommend this book because...”, but for the most part I instruct them all to look for things that are interesting or something that catches their attention, and leave it to them to describe/define what that is, and usually everyone finds at least something and I think that’s more valuable That sounds reasonable. As you can tell, I'm not a teacher, but I think I'd like that assignment when I was younger.
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May 6, 2020 19:18
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derp posted:started reading 2666, and am not far enough into it to say much but I like it a lot so far, however I can say that the version I got is extremely aesthetically pleasing. There is no tagline or quotes or blurb describing anything anywhere on the exterior of any of the three volumes in the set. all of that junk was on the box that held them, which was damaged so I threw away. So im left with 3 books with just a title and cover art, no other junk pasted all over it. not even the author name which is only visible on the spine. love it. 100 pages into this now and it's just flipping great. just now finished the part where morini finds out why johns cut his hand off A+, very excited ive got 800 more pages of this gold.
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May 7, 2020 03:41
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ulvir posted:I’m a bit hesitant to include “hate/didn’t like” into the classroom because I want them to engage with texts on a deeper level than just “ugh this character is a piece of poo poo that I can’t relate to”, there’s more than enough of that online. but sometimes assignments opens up for a personal evaluation like a report/review, where they can end with a “I recommend/don’t recommend this book because...”, but for the most part I instruct them all to look for things that are interesting or something that catches their attention, and leave it to them to describe/define what that is, and usually everyone finds at least something and I think that’s more valuable out of curiosity, what do you give them? like, do you go for the renbergs of the world or do you give classics like hamsun or undset or what? anything contemporary? i got assigned Gymnaslærer Pedersen in videregående and that owned bones
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May 7, 2020 11:10
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V. Illych L. posted:out of curiosity, what do you give them? like, do you go for the renbergs of the world or do you give classics like hamsun or undset or what? anything contemporary? 1st year I go for contemporary stuff, they’ve read Tante ulrikkes vei, Andvake by Jon Fosse and something from Helga Flatland. 2nd and 3rd year are more bound by history of literature, so they’ve read stuff like sagas, a story from from the decameron, Hamsun, Kafka, Solstad and so on. So a fine mix between classics and well regarded contemporaries.
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May 7, 2020 11:21
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No babyfucker? For shame...
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May 7, 2020 11:26
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They made me read Sartre in HS and I didn’t understand anything at all. All I can remember from Nausea is some kind of tree with cum shooting out of its roots. Our literary curriculum was grueling. I had to read both Iliad and Odyssey in first grade, as well as parts of the Aeneid and several of the ancient Greek plays. Second grade was mostly Italian stuff like Dante and Petrarch, Hamlet, out of all Shakespeare, Racine, Moliere, a ton of barely comprehensible early Croatian literature (the language changed A LOT compared to English or Italian). Then, Romanticism - Young Werther, Pushkin, some Schiller, Balzac. Third grade was mostly about realism, they made us read Turgenev, Crime and Punishment, Anna Karenina, Germinal, some Chekhov plays and a lot of Croatian lit from the era. A lot of time was dedicated to French symbolist poetry. Fourth grade, they hit us with Proust, Kafka, Brecht, Camus, Sartre, Faulkner, and goddamn Krleža. I was barely able to comprehend anything, the only required reading I enjoyed were some plays by Ionesco. The works were chosen mainly based on their “importance” and accessibility was the least of our teachers’ concerns. We read entire volumes, never excerpts. And a ton of analysis that was graded based on whether you arrived at the same conclusions as the curriculum author. It’s a wonder I read books at all.
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May 7, 2020 12:00
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ulvir posted:1st year I go for contemporary stuff, they’ve read Tante ulrikkes vei, Andvake by Jon Fosse and something from Helga Flatland. 2nd and 3rd year are more bound by history of literature, so they’ve read stuff like sagas, a story from from the decameron, Hamsun, Kafka, Solstad and so on. So a fine mix between classics and well regarded contemporaries. my favourite thing about reading solstad in school is that so many of his characters are sad-sack teachers who hate school. it made the teachers much more relatable when i read that even teachers despise snooty know-it-alls
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May 7, 2020 12:15
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Take the plunge! Okay! posted:They made me read Sartre in HS and I didn’t understand anything at all. All I can remember from Nausea is some kind of tree with cum shooting out of its roots.
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May 7, 2020 12:40
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TrixRabbi posted:Literally every person who waves away Catcher in the Rye because Holden is whiny. Like, there's so much going on in that book, that so many people just dismiss it offhand because they don't sympathize with the traumatized teenage protagonist. I think Salinger does a good job of making Holden sympathetic, largely by showing the reader that Holden is angsty, self centered, and lacks self awareness. It's clear that the author is aware of those flaws and is showing them to the reader. It makes it okay to dislike those aspects of the character and easier to sympathize with his trauma. My view of Catcher in the Rye is partly shaped by having read Norwegian Wood right after, and I think that Murakami fails in a lot of places that Salinger didn't. I think the narrator in Norwegian Wood had some of the same flaws as Holden, he's kind of full of himself and thinks he's smarter than other people. But it's not clear to me that Murakami sees those as flaws. It seems like the reader is supposed to accept that the narrator is smarter than other people, does have better taste in books, music etc. Holden's bragging about being good with women always fizzles without anything happening, which makes it clear its the grandstanding of a teenage boy. Whereas Murakami's narrator constantly has women praising him and then sleeping with him. Murakami also constantly inserts sappy sentimental passages in the authors voice, rather than the narrators voice, and it undermines the authenticity of the narrator. Murakami's narrator is less sympathetic, because it seems like the reader is supposed to sympathize with him as an outcast, but he just seems like a dick. Murakami kills off a bunch of people, but it just seems like a plot device to give meaning to the narrator. Whereas with Holden, the reader sympathizes with him because of his brothers death, and because he doesn't have the emotional maturity and support to deal with it because he's a flawed character.
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May 7, 2020 15:26
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