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Mendrian posted:'Doing as little as possible' is basically trying to get away with not doing your job. It means if the state allows you a 15 minute bathroom break, you take exactly a fifteen minute bathroom break. It means if you are assigned exactly 10 whatsits to zob, you zob exactly 10 whatsits, ensuring it takes up your entire shift to the second. I would call this basically weaponized hatred of the act of working itself. I’m trying to understand this but I just don’t. If I’m allowed a 15 minute break, why wouldn’t I take a full 15 minute break when I take a break? And if I’m only paid to zob 10 whatsits and I can do it 1 hour and ask for more work to do, or do it over 8 hours and get paid all the same… why would I ask for more work and stress in my life? E: This is the same psychological bullshit companies that offer “unlimited PTO” do to get you to take less time off. They get you to do the self calculus and make you think you’re abusing the system for everyone so you end up taking less time off than if the company had offered x days off. So if the job says to zob 10 things then just zob 10 things and ask for more work if you’re a dumb dumb. Boris Galerkin fucked around with this message at 22:55 on Nov 29, 2023 |
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Nov 29, 2023 22:51
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zoux posted:Again, inflation adjusted wages are up, so while there are probably plenty of people who didn't see wage increases commensurate with inflation, there are way more who did.
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Nov 29, 2023 22:52
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PhazonLink posted:so what is a switchgear, and do you know it good enough to adequately explain it to be an internet rando ? As some other goon has said, it's basically a large-scale electrical regulator used primarily for plant operations; usually chemical and oil plants in where I'm from. They're unfortunately hard to express for internet randos, but as far as I remember of them, they act as control for industrial electrical distribution, with various devices to measure stuff like amperage, voltage, and what not. They typically come in an "A" and "B" side, which either one can also act as a load-bearer for a system when one part happens to shut down unexpectedly. Mainly, I say this because that job just happened to be the one that first gave me an offer once I graduated, so it was "Welp! Guess I'm learning how to make these now!  "
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Nov 29, 2023 22:53
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cat botherer posted:Inflation is measured in a way that is irrelevant to many working people. Please elaborate.
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Nov 29, 2023 22:55
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:All work paid under capitalism is exploitative. There's no such thing as non-exploited paid labor. The exploitation is where the profit comes from. what about commisions. if you pay an artist to do a thing and they do said thing with no rushing or harmful poo poo towards them by the commisoner and you pay them full amount or more, is that exploitive. not being a dick or doing some trap poo poo. just curious. i guess thats less capitalism and more barter.
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Nov 29, 2023 22:56
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Boris Galerkin posted:I’m trying to understand this but I just don’t. If I’m allowed a 15 minute break, why wouldn’t I take a full 15 minute break when I take a break? And if I’m only paid to zob 10 whatsits and I can do it 1 hour and ask for more work to do, or do it over 8 hours and get paid all the same… why would I ask for more work and stress in my life? If you derive zero fulfillment from your work, by all means do exactly the minimum. Plenty of people work harder out of a sense of personal fulfillment and pride in their work, and so it doesn't really add stress to their lives but rather reduces it because they feel useful.
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Nov 29, 2023 22:56
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OctaMurk posted:If you derive zero fulfillment from your work, by all means do exactly the minimum. Plenty of people work harder out of a sense of personal fulfillment and pride in their work, and so it doesn't really add stress to their lives but rather reduces it because they feel useful. That's all well and good but cutting your fifteens (they're breaks, not specifically "bathroom breaks") short for the benefit of your job is mental illness
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Nov 29, 2023 22:59
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Professor Beetus posted:That's all well and good but cutting your fifteens (they're breaks, not specifically "bathroom breaks") short for the benefit of your job is mental illness Yeah I agree, people should take advantage of their benefits. On the other hand, occasionally I've stayed late at work, even though I'm on salary, because I feel in "the zone" and I'm personally excited to see a design I came up with come to fruition, or I'm learning something new. I don't think that is mental illness, even though technically I am giving my company "free work".
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Nov 29, 2023 23:07
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Piell posted:Alternatively, if you don't ever expect to make enough money to retire then why bother trying to save for retirement instead of enjoying your life while you can while you're young To clarify, this isnt a random doomer comment. A valid approach is a lifetime income perspective, where people expect to make more money in the future and are spending at that level rather than let their lifestyle creep up gradually. They can be wrong with that assumption but it's a logical approach if you value comfort now over some slightly higher long term gain (or you don't think there's a long term to save for).
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Nov 29, 2023 23:08
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Eric Cantonese posted:This belief might have been fully refuted at this point, but I'm convinced that boomers are going to live way longer than anyone anticipates (and definitely longer than previous generations just due to medical technology and better living habits and nutrition) and Gen X and Millennials are going to get way less than anyone expects. Boomers will, rather understandably, not just die gracefully and a lot of wealth will get sucked up into longterm healthcare needs and/or reverse mortgages or other financial mechanisms to try to substitute for work income. God knows you also have tons of online scammers and other fraudsters empowered by the internet just hovering over the elderly, waiting to pounce. TLDR: Boomers don't give a gently caress about their kids or grandkids. I read this article this morning, combined with a few other Boomers Bad articles, and it really crystallizes something my husband and I have been struggling with. My 80+ year old father-in-law lives like 20 minutes away, has been retired for years, and rarely sees us or his grandkids. He has taken multiple road trips, often camps in nearby forests and poo poo, but never invites us or his grandkids. His oldest local grandkid is 13, the kid is really easy to hang out with, but the guy never spends time with him. After years of fretting about the lack of a grandparent presence in our kids' lives, my husband finally broke down and had a heart-to-heart with the dude. He says things will change, he and his wife are both retired and financially fat and do poo poo like kayak and camp, but they clearly don't give a poo poo about my kids and I don't want to force people into our lives who don't want to be there. We could have saved thousands of dollars if they had been around to help with childcare or babysitting, and apparently this is a pretty common with GenX & Millennial parents. The other grandparents are on perpetual cruises and/or live out of state. My own mother was here for Thanksgiving, in town for 48 hours, and spent maybe 6 hours with the kids and barely said a word to them. I guess it just didn't occur to her that my kids would love to hang out in her hotel pool for hours, and it would have been a cheap and easy way to spend time with them. I am envious of those that are blessed with extended families that aren't toxic and give a poo poo about the well-being of their kids/grandkids/etc. My husband and I are out here on our own with this gaggle of kids, burdened with the knowledge we will have to care for and deal with our indifferent parents when they get sick and need elder care, or when we have to deal with their estates. I fully expect their houses to be underwater somehow, my mother is passing along multiple timeshare scams when she dies, we are trying to brace ourselves for the worst because the last thing these people want to hear is advice (financial or otherwise) from their kids.
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Nov 29, 2023 23:15
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Apparently the Indian spy services tried to assassinate a Sikh activist in New York. This after the actual assassination of another Sikh separatist leader in Canada in June.WaPo article posted:An Indian government employee who described himself as a “senior field officer” responsible for intelligence ordered the assassination of a Sikh separatist in New York City in May, U.S. prosecutors alleged Wednesday. The court filing heightens scrutiny of India’s spy services following similar allegations made by Canadian authorities in September.
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Nov 29, 2023 23:20
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cat botherer posted:Inflation is measured in a way that is irrelevant to many working people. I mean, there are several different inflation measures and they're more accurate or less accurate in different contexts, but you're going to have to do more than that if you want to argue that real wage estimates (which are meant to be as representative as possible of as many Americans as possible) are wildly off base. also CPI tends to be one of the higher inflation metrics so that's a bit of a pickle for the position that inflation is being understated and people are actually as badly off as The Vibes want us to think
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Nov 29, 2023 23:27
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OctaMurk posted:If you derive zero fulfillment from your work, by all means do exactly the minimum. Plenty of people work harder out of a sense of personal fulfillment and pride in their work, and so it doesn't really add stress to their lives but rather reduces it because they feel useful. Feeling useful doing what would be my prime question here tbh. If someone gets a sense of fullfillment from teaching students or trying their best at something vs someone feeling good because their reports came back in positive. One is good for the planet and the other is nothing.
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Nov 29, 2023 23:28
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Boris Galerkin posted:I mean I can understand how it happens though. If you think your financial situation is bad, and you don’t expect it to ever improve, but you also don’t expect it to get worse because you’re “getting by” and financial woes are a tomorrow problem. Then why not YOLO and salvage a good life now. Piell posted:Alternatively, if you don't ever expect to make enough money to retire then why bother trying to save for retirement instead of enjoying your life while you can while you're young Usually, when people are saying the economy is bad, they engage in less consumer spending, especially when it comes to purchases they can do without or postpone till later. When the economists say that Americans aren't spending like the economy is bad, they're not basing that on empty theorizing. They're actually looking back at old consumer spending data and correlating it with economic polling and actual economic conditions. Normally, when people think the economy is bad and their financial situation sucks, they spend less money. This time, they're not. There's a bunch of changes in consumer behavior that pretty consistently happen when the economy is bad or people are doing badly, and basically none of those changes are happening this time. That is why experts are acting all confused and surprised. Pretty much everything about the economy right now - and consumers' reaction to it - is different from how things have ever gone before. That is why economists and pollsters seem so shocked about everything.
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Nov 29, 2023 23:35
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Piell posted:Alternatively, if you don't ever expect to make enough money to retire then why bother trying to save for retirement instead of enjoying your life while you can while you're young but most study's into zoomer saving habits indicate that they're more prolific savers than millenials, genx, or boomers were at their age quote:A recent study from TransAmerica Center for Retirement Studies shows that, despite being the youngest working generation, Gen Z is doing a remarkable job saving for retirement. Over 30% of Gen Z is prioritizing retirement savings, and 67% of those that have been offered a retirement plan are saving for it. https://www.kiplinger.com/personal-finance/study-finds-gen-z-doing-an-extraordinary-job-saving-for-retirement there's a ton of contradictory information on feelings about economic stats, it's very easy to draw whatever conclusions fit your priors, and very hard to identify an actual root cause if you take most of the reported information on faith GhostofJohnMuir fucked around with this message at 23:43 on Nov 29, 2023 |
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Nov 29, 2023 23:37
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Charliegrs posted:Since we are on the topic of phones I've been reading a lot of articles lately about how the youngest generation of workers, so like late zoomers I guess? Are terrible at actual computer knowledge. Like just as bad as boomers. And it's having a real effect on their ability to work in offices where the basic computer knowledge is needed. Like apparently these kids don't know how to operate a mouse and keyboard, don't know how to navigate file structures or other basic windows functions, don't know how to print etc. Because they grew up with smartphones and tablets and that whole ecosystem and many households just don't have an actual PC now. I know this is from a few pages ago, but the biggest complaint I hear from my old roomie regarding her <25 coworkers is this exactly. They gently caress around all day on social media and don't actually know how to manipulate their PCs to do the little office work they're actually assigned. It was...shocking to hear to say the least. Everything is so "user friendly" right now that people don't actually know how any of it works.
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Nov 29, 2023 23:37
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zoux posted:
That last parenthetical is important, because I think it largely explains the disconnect we're discussing. We're a society where you could get a $5 footlong for lunch as recently as eight years ago, and now that same sub costs nearly $11. 120% inflation! That's a hard pill to swallow, even if you're inclined to sit down and calculate how much of your income that sub represented then vs. now. Prices went very high, very fast, and they're basically not going to come down. People are going to have to get used to them and/or ask for raises, and that sucks.
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Nov 29, 2023 23:37
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Tibeerius posted:People don't care about the rate at which prices are increasing (how inflation is measured), but about how high prices are (relative to what they're accustomed to). But they did get the raises. That's the point of the numbers; they're specifically taking that into account. And gas prices are down significantly from last year (tho still increased from 2020), which is usually considered the most politically influential price.
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Nov 29, 2023 23:45
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:but most study's into zoomer saving habits indicate that their more prolific savers than millenials, genx, or boomers were at their age The same doom spending (what a dumb af name) article does not agree with what you’re posting: https://www.cnbc.com/2023/11/29/americans-are-doom-spending-heres-why-thats-a-problem.html quote:Gen Z workers are the biggest cohort of nonsavers, Bankrate also found. It cites: https://www.cnbc.com/2023/10/19/retirement-expectations-vs-reality-heres-how-americans-stack-up.html quote:And yet, Gen Z workers are the biggest cohort of non-savers, Bankrate also found. … which doesn’t actually support the claim and they don’t cite the actual Bankrate research. It doesn’t support it because it doesn’t give a number for # or % of the gen z cohort saving for retirement, only that the average gen z 401k balance is 8k while a boomer has 153k. Which… makes sense??? I mean, I’m actually more surprised that the average boomer age 401k is so low tbh. Anyway I’d be curious to read your source about saving habits of generational cohorts.
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Nov 29, 2023 23:47
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Google Jeb Bush posted:I mean, there are several different inflation measures and they're more accurate or less accurate in different contexts, but you're going to have to do more than that if you want to argue that real wage estimates (which are meant to be as representative as possible of as many Americans as possible) are wildly off base. also CPI tends to be one of the higher inflation metrics so that's a bit of a pickle for the position that inflation is being understated and people are actually as badly off as The Vibes want us to think Pretty much this. Not long ago CPI was unusually high and food and energy were even higher. Now CPI is back near typical levels, rental inflation is similar to CPI, food is below that and dropping, and energy is deflationary, while wage growth is improving. Like, plenty of people still haven't dug out of the hole, I get that. My own wages haven't kept up with inflation the last few years; I'd need a pretty nice raise to catch up to where I was in 2019 and if I was doing less well to start that would hurt.. But I keep getting assured that despite numbers saying otherwise it's actually getting way worse than it was even last year. The millennial equivalent of boomers being mad candy bars aren't ten cents any more (while they're making far more than they did when candy bars were ten cents) does not mean things are getting worse. It also does not mean that inflation is measured in a meaningless way because that is exactly what inflation is meant to measure.
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Nov 29, 2023 23:48
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Morrow posted:To clarify, this isnt a random doomer comment. A valid approach is a lifetime income perspective, where people expect to make more money in the future and are spending at that level rather than let their lifestyle creep up gradually. They can be wrong with that assumption but it's a logical approach if you value comfort now over some slightly higher long term gain (or you don't think there's a long term to save for). smoothed lifetime consumption is a model that makes complete sense for a certain contemptible type of theoretical economist, but absolutely no one actually implements. i'm a believer that on the balance people act rationally more than irrationally, but nobody is heuristically or deliberately calculating their lifetime marginal utility curve for any sort of decision making on any level that matters. and we are not awash in elderly boomers or silents complaining that they saved too much when they were younger
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Nov 29, 2023 23:49
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Boris Galerkin posted:I’m trying to understand this but I just don’t. If I’m allowed a 15 minute break, why wouldn’t I take a full 15 minute break when I take a break? And if I’m only paid to zob 10 whatsits and I can do it 1 hour and ask for more work to do, or do it over 8 hours and get paid all the same… why would I ask for more work and stress in my life? I'm not saying don't take a break. You should take breaks. I'm saying there are people who sit on the toilet for exactly the amount of time they can before it becomes unreasonable. If you have a break, take a break. You don't need to trick your co-workers into thinking you take long shits. And I'm not saying anyone should overwork themselves, I'm saying the opposite. The irony here is that if you work at a job that isn't a massive corporate institution with extremely siloed and well-defined roles, that kind of contractual thinking just like... doesn't work. If you work at a store, you should absolutely do the work of one person and let the phone ring if you're busy; you should work at a pace you define as healthy for yourself; you should take your breaks, and leave when it's your time to leave. But it's very difficult to define your actual role in strict terms the way you might at a big institution. 'Help Customers' is absurdly broad and encompasses a range of activities and quality of activities. So I'm explaining myself poorly, in other words. People shouldn't work harder than they have to but they also shouldn't hide off camera and sit on the floor for eight hours because they technically can. I think we can agree most people do not do the latter.
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Nov 29, 2023 23:50
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The way that people keep talking about the issue honestly makes it feel like what is really happening is that people working full time on salary for didn't ask for raises and the people working for an hourly rate found other jobs or went back to school or whatever. If you got a 1% raise you weren't working hourly. A pretty large portion of the economy is made up of people who work part-time and/or hourly and when a bunch of people left the workforce because of age/COVID/caretaker responsibilities ALL of those people got a huge bump. Now we get a bunch of thinkpieces that say "what's so bad about the economy, and the answer is that a lot of people are fine, maybe even technically better off because they paid down loans a bit during the pandemic, but either A. They have lower real wages or B. They are spending a higher proportion on food even if they are spending less across all categories accounting for inflation. The biggest trick is that people have been paying basically the same for gas for like 15 years and they will never internalize that as a savings because for most of that period inflation was like 1%
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Nov 29, 2023 23:54
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:All work paid under capitalism is exploitative. There's no such thing as non-exploited paid labor. The exploitation is where the profit comes from. what if you work for a non-profit or the government The answer of course is that you can easily get exploited under both, imo it's not so much capitalism that's the problem as lovely employers, a problem that capitalism exacerbates but did not invent and will not go away even if capitalism does
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Nov 29, 2023 23:55
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Boris Galerkin posted:Anyway I’d be curious to read your source about saving habits of generational cohorts. see the edited post, i accidentally hit submit. that sources are contradictory either to drive a narrative or because the world is a confused morass is basically my wider point in addition to the linked transamerican study, here's a slightly older one from blackrock that agrees https://www.blackrock.com/us/individual/insights/retirement/gen-z-retirement and one from vanguard https://corporate.vanguard.com/content/dam/corp/research/pdf/generational_changes_in_401(k)_behaviors.pdf notably all are employment plan providers, so take that bias how you will
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Nov 29, 2023 23:55
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Mendrian posted:I'm not saying don't take a break. You should take breaks. I'm saying there are people who sit on the toilet for exactly the amount of time they can before it becomes unreasonable. If you have a break, take a break. You don't need to trick your co-workers into thinking you take long shits. So to be clear, you have no issue with someone taking their allowed 15 minutes in the break room or sitting at their desk or whatever? Your issue is just the people who equate “break” with specifically “bathroom break” and sit on the toilet for 15 minutes to play on their phone? I think we’re in agreement if so! At least for this part. Your OP kinda sounded like you were posting from the “yeah you’re allowed 15 minutes but if you only take 10 your CEO will notice give you a raise” pov. Boris Galerkin fucked around with this message at 00:00 on Nov 30, 2023 |
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Nov 29, 2023 23:57
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Boss makes a dollar, I make a dime, Quarter hour poops on company time
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Nov 30, 2023 00:05
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Best shits are work shits.
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Nov 30, 2023 00:08
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Boris Galerkin posted:So to be clear, you have no issue with someone taking their allowed 15 minutes in the break room or sitting at their desk or whatever? Your issue is just the people who equate “break” with specifically “bathroom break” and sit on the toilet for 15 minutes to play on their phone? Yeah I'm talking about specifically finding ways that aren't 'breaks' to take breaks. You should take breaks. We're in agreement. Like in all honesty I'm even of two minds about it even here - people deserve more breaks and slower paced work environments and even taking additional defiance to do so is kind of understandable. There's a big continuum of people because surprise surprise the real world is a lot more analog and variable than text on a forum might dictate. I think there's a pretty big gulf between 'people who make reasonable accommodations for self care in addition to their government mandated break times' and 'people who literally avoid work at all costs' and my initial point is that the latter group isn't really all that common in real life practice, it's a goblin created by the 'quiet quitting' think pieces that are wholly inaccurate.
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Nov 30, 2023 00:28
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Good news for Biden--his overall approval rating in the Gallup poll hasn't fallen since last month: Bad news for Biden--his numbers are cratering to a record low with independents:  He's also under water on every issue the poll asked about :  Gallup posted:Poor Marks for Biden: Middle East, Economy, Foreign Affairs B B fucked around with this message at 00:43 on Nov 30, 2023 |
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Nov 30, 2023 00:40
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Dapper_Swindler posted:what about commisions. if you pay an artist to do a thing and they do said thing with no rushing or harmful poo poo towards them by the commisoner and you pay them full amount or more, is that exploitive. not being a dick or doing some trap poo poo. just curious. i guess thats less capitalism and more barter. Probably depends on a lot of things, like exact terms of the commission (licensing, ownership, use of the artwork), how the artist is being compensated, the nature of the one making the commission (individual? company?), and the power dynamic between the commissioner and the artist.
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Nov 30, 2023 00:54
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Agents are GO! posted:It's like a reployer Sometimes things get deployed and you're like "wait, poo poo, that needed to stay ployed" and those will be the times you're really glad you have a good reployer.
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Nov 30, 2023 01:12
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a week after ratifying the new contracts with the big 3, uaw is rolling out it's campaign to organize the rest of the industry https://uaw.org/join/ non-union shops like toyota received pay increases pretty much immediately after the tentative deals were announced, so there is some fear out there in management hope the new leadership can continue to rack up the wins with this more aggressive style
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Nov 30, 2023 01:15
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Dapper_Swindler posted:what about commisions. if you pay an artist to do a thing and they do said thing with no rushing or harmful poo poo towards them by the commisoner and you pay them full amount or more, is that exploitive. not being a dick or doing some trap poo poo. just curious. i guess thats less capitalism and more barter. A commission isn’t really capitalism is it? There’s no capital or employees involved. I mean if you want to get really into the weeds they had to buy paint or whatever, but in general if you’re paying a person directly for a thing they independently make then you aren’t really participating directly with capitalism with that act. Most any financial system is going to have some sort of currency; it isn’t spending money that makes it capitalism. It’s (to vastly over-simplify) when private people (or a group like a corporation) control the means of production: the capital, and exploit labor by charging more for the thing that is made than they pay the workers.
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Nov 30, 2023 01:18
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:But they did get the raises. That's the point of the numbers; they're specifically taking that into account. And gas prices are down significantly from last year (tho still increased from 2020), which is usually considered the most politically influential price. Psychologically, numbers are sticky: let’s say $50K used to be a ok salary 10 years ago, $100K used to be enough that you’d not have to think about money day-to-day. That perception wouldn’t have changed for somebody whose salary grew from $50K to $100K - but now they’re finding that $100K doesn’t feel any better than $50K did. That’s because $100K now is what $50K used to be. But psychologically, it feels like it should be more. The fact that it doesn’t makes people feel under pressure. And that’s the best case where income and inflation are keeping pace.
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Nov 30, 2023 01:28
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Fork of Unknown Origins posted:There’s no capital or employees involved. Right. Like, yes, exploitation can also exist under other forms of transaction, but a capitalistic relationship is necessarily exploitative; the profit derives from the excess value of the worker's labor, relative to the wage they are paid for that labor.
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Nov 30, 2023 01:42
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Logic Probed posted:As some other goon has said, it's basically a large-scale electrical regulator used primarily for plant operations; usually chemical and oil plants in where I'm from. They're unfortunately hard to express for internet randos, but as far as I remember of them, they act as control for industrial electrical distribution, with various devices to measure stuff like amperage, voltage, and what not. They typically come in an "A" and "B" side, which either one can also act as a load-bearer for a system when one part happens to shut down unexpectedly. Less Simple: Think of a circuit breaker panel, but bigger and for way more power. It's still for power distribution but on a larger scale where the stakes are higher. Generally 4160v to 69kv and the breakers are anywhere from microwave to refrigerator sized instead of palm sized. Also a lot more complicated and can trip for more than just over current (load), transfer power from one source to a backup or second source (transfer trip), and are a pain in the rear end to work on compared with higher voltage equipment. Most of the drafting/design firms seem to be against hiring people with experience and leave it to the field morons to make it work. In house training could help with this but that costs money so it would never work. I did my best to keep this rant free.
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Nov 30, 2023 01:53
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https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/nation-politics/the-national-christmas-tree-fell-over-make-of-that-what-you-will/ Life in Biden's America.
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Nov 30, 2023 02:30
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The War on Christmas comes earlier and earlier each year
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Nov 30, 2023 02:35
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morothar posted:Psychologically, numbers are sticky: let’s say $50K used to be a ok salary 10 years ago, $100K used to be enough that you’d not have to think about money day-to-day. That perception wouldn’t have changed for somebody whose salary grew from $50K to $100K - but now they’re finding that $100K doesn’t feel any better than $50K did. oh yeah, when I'm sneering at The Vibes it's not that there's nothing to people's lizard brains being troubled by their recollection of the numbers, it's that human psychology regarding numbers and actual material conditions are different things see also Crime Vibes, where two of the biggest drivers on an individual Vibes level are "I saw a poor / black / homeless person yesterday" or "I saw a broken window yesterday", not actual crime rates e: we're broadly ahead of that best case though, where 100k is what 65k used to be (number made up, not gonna do the math on phone) but it still doesn't feel like 100k should so even though someone is objectively better off they feel Bad about it Goatse James Bond fucked around with this message at 02:43 on Nov 30, 2023 |
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Nov 30, 2023 02:39
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