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so funny when he released "secret CCP documents" and it was a mismatch of Traditional/Simplified with numbered lists switching halfway through and the meta-data showed he was the author.
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Jun 27, 2024 02:24
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Hatebag posted:*bravely*: i will read a book read so hard you start seeing maos
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Jun 27, 2024 02:24
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crepeface posted:well, at least he can speak the language right? the Uyghur one? or at least Mandarin? does he read Traditional Chinese or Simplified? He claims to be fluent in Mandarin, but I don't see where he would have picked that up during his education. He was also a "Tibet expert" before pivoting to Xinjiang, which is new to me.
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Jun 27, 2024 02:26
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CN CREW-VESSEL posted:One guy who is a religious maniac with no academic background in the region whatsoever. pictured, someone who will be saved: blonde German
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Jun 27, 2024 02:31
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CN CREW-VESSEL posted:He claims to be fluent in Mandarin, but I don't see where he would have picked that up during his education. lol yeah I was making a joke. he has some translators, probably Taiwanese because while they speak Mandarin like the mainland, they write in Traditional instead of Simplified Chinese. it makes the fake documents he puts out hilarious because they misspell poo poo or suddenly switch mid document. they're probably similar to whoever set up those fake COVID protests awhile back because they misspelt the name of the city they were asking to be free from Xi's tyranny. and there was the ones in Guangzhou who were protesting in Mandarin instead of Cantonese. this is basically the CIA recruiter for china: 
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Jun 27, 2024 02:46
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CN CREW-VESSEL posted:One guy who is a religious maniac with no academic background in the region whatsoever. so like when AP runs a story on forced sterilization, or Human Rights Watch on forced labor camps, it’s just them repeating this guy? like that North Korean lady who went on Joe Rogan? and no one checked?
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Jun 27, 2024 03:52
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no, plenty of people gave him a cheque.
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Jun 27, 2024 03:59
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crepeface posted:no, plenty of people gave him a cheque. lol
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Jun 27, 2024 04:01
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Grilled Beef posted:so like when AP runs a story on forced sterilization, or Human Rights Watch on forced labor camps, it’s just them repeating this guy? like that North Korean lady who went on Joe Rogan? Always fun when someone new to this finds out about zenz
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Jun 27, 2024 04:02
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zenz ftwcrepeface posted:no, plenty of people gave him a cheque. lmao
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Jun 27, 2024 04:36
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crepeface posted:no, plenty of people gave him a cheque.
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Jun 27, 2024 04:43
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zenz says it, but then governments get to condemn the alleged behavior and demand it to stop, so then the BBC or whatever can report on the demand, made by a reputable source, and refer to the allegations as just "reports." this would be a great one for that media literacy thread. what ever happened to that?
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Jun 27, 2024 04:47
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Grilled Beef posted:they fixed some of the American GIs they caught in the Korean War, which is where this massive fear of “brain washing” came from. POWs got an explanation on that the other perspective was, came away more informed (not even like flipped just aware of a different narrative about the justification for the war) and America lost its poo poo. This is easily one of China's most impressive feats: fixing Americans.
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Jun 27, 2024 09:29
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Real hurthling! posted:its literally one guy One religious fundamentalist loony from Germany who works for the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation and now lives in Minnesota, to be precise. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Zenz This loving guy. Every single claim you can find if you go through the sourcing eventually (usually directly or only 1 degree of seperation removed) tracks back to this clown. The section on his religion doesn't do his lunacy justice and I swear wikipedia used to contain more details on how this guy thinks he's literally instructed by god to lie about China. Grilled Beef posted:so like when AP runs a story on forced sterilization, or Human Rights Watch on forced labor camps, it’s just them repeating this guy? like that North Korean lady who went on Joe Rogan? Yes this is literally what's been happening for decades. When that ex-judge in Britain did a dumb show-trial against China over this alleged genocide, Zenz was the primary source. I know this because at the time I hadn't looked into the issue and generally accepted that "something bad must be going on" but then when I did look into it just before this dumb trial I found out that oops it's all Zenz and oops he's the definition of not reliable and then I got into a big argument about it in the D&D China thread and then later in the Dutch thread in SAL. In both places I was accused of supporting genocide, which I took seriously, so I went through all the goddamn sourcing of that dumb trial to see if I was missing anything. You know, the kind of thing you might expect someone to do when looking into something as serious as genocide, and the kind of thing not a single one of these goddamn liberals parrotting this bullshit has ever taken even just a couple of hours out of their vain lives to do while still claiming their high horse and accusing others of heinous poo poo. gently caress them forever for using paper thin bullshit accusations of genocide as a tool to support their political ideology. Orange Devil has issued a correction as of 09:43 on Jun 27, 2024 |
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Jun 27, 2024 09:36
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Orange Devil posted:I was accused of supporting genocide, which I took seriously, so I went through all the goddamn sourcing of that dumb trial to see if I was missing anything. You know, the kind of thing you might expect someone to do when looking into something as serious as genocide, and the kind of thing not a single one of these goddamn liberals parrotting this bullshit has ever taken even just a couple of hours out of their vain lives to do while still claiming their high horse and accusing others of heinous poo poo. gently caress them forever for using paper thin bullshit accusations of genocide as a tool to support their political ideology. I've gone through very similar bullshit. Someone sees a single headline, and anyone who objects to it is a genocide denier. 1 lie requiring 100 times as much work and research to make sure I'm not fooling myself and repeating lies.
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Jun 27, 2024 09:54
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Orange Devil posted:One religious fundamentalist loony from Germany who works for the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation and now lives in Minnesota, to be precise. 
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Jun 27, 2024 09:57
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Orange Devil posted:One religious fundamentalist loony from Germany who works for the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation and now lives in Minnesota, to be precise. Zenz’s work on China is inspired by this biblical worldview, as he recently explained in an interview with the Wall Street Journal. “I feel very clearly led by God to do this,” he said. “I can put it that way. I’m not afraid to say that. With Xinjiang, things really changed. It became like a mission, or a ministry.” WSJ: https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-german-data-diver-who-exposed-chinas-muslim-crackdown-11558431005
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Jun 27, 2024 09:58
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Orange Devil posted:This is easily one of China's most impressive feats: fixing Americans. There's a documentary about these guys and one of them retells the story how he got captured - he was hiding by himself in bushes and long grass, and observed a Chinese patrol moving into a Korean village, and paying them for food and supplies. Comparing that simple transaction to how he'd seen the way US troops were behaving towards Korean villagers elsewhere, he just stood up and surrendered on the spot like welp, guess I was on the bad team.
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Jun 27, 2024 10:27
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Sounds interesting. Do you remember the name of that documentary?
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Jun 27, 2024 10:44
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stephenthinkpad posted:Did the Soviet erect statues for the Rosenbergs? They should do that. The Cubans had a monument. Not a statue, but it has their faces. "For peace, love, and bread, we face the executioner"
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Jun 27, 2024 11:41
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Yadoppsi posted:Sounds interesting. Do you remember the name of that documentary? Yeah, it's called They Chose China, about the subset of POWs that didn't return to the USA even after they were freed. I just went to look it up and I misremembered some details, the immediate visual contradiction leading to revelation is less extreme than I described, but that section starts at 13:00 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDTPhT8mZ9o&t=2002s don't sleep on the rest of that doc either, it's great.
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Jun 27, 2024 11:52
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After Japan surrendered, a lot of Japanese soldiers (and IIRC Japanese medical staff) went on to help the communist party to win the last phase of the civil war against The KMT army. After they went back to Japan, they formed their own association and had their own newspaper.
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Jun 27, 2024 12:07
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Orange Devil posted:One religious fundamentalist loony from Germany who works for the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation and now lives in Minnesota, to be precise. this is blowing my loving mind. like I would have at least expected they used like a satellite thermal image of a potato field and said “as you can see this patch is slightly warmer from intense underground activity. we believe the heat is from the decay of a mass grave” or something. Had a number of coached “witnesses” like the Nayirah testimony of the 1991 Gulf War. Used images of prisons in other provinces and claimed they were labor camps. It’s just one guy who is hiring people to half rear end translations off fiverr and this is whipping people into a blood fervor? are you loving kidding me?
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Jun 27, 2024 12:11
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Yeah, or god told him. Like for real: https://uyghurtribunal.com/ This is the website of that dumb UK show trial. They have a section labeled "evidence". Just go read there. You might notice a certain Zenz being literally the second name on the page, which tells you a lot about how serious any of this poo poo is. I read a whole lot of that stuff and then followed the sourcing wherever they provided it and uhh, long story short, it doesn't hold up. Orange Devil has issued a correction as of 12:24 on Jun 27, 2024 |
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Jun 27, 2024 12:19
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and remember he’s an anthropologist by training, and wrote his dissertation on Tibet, not Xinjiang, considers this a religious mission and so on.
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Jun 27, 2024 12:52
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Grilled Beef posted:this is blowing my loving mind. like I would have at least expected they used like a satellite thermal image of a potato field and said “as you can see this patch is slightly warmer from intense underground activity. we believe the heat is from the decay of a mass grave” or something. Had a number of coached “witnesses” like the Nayirah testimony of the 1991 Gulf War. Used images of prisons in other provinces and claimed they were labor camps. It’s just one guy who is hiring people to half rear end translations off fiverr and this is whipping people into a blood fervor? are you loving kidding me? there are some satellite photos of schools which they claim are concentration camps. they usually put that photo of the drug addicts (?) in the same article.
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Jun 27, 2024 13:05
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I recall China built a prison and wouldn't let anyone go inside, because it was a prison, and that was hailed as proof positive they were carrying out an extermination scheme Many of the same people that rail against Chinese genocide see nothing wrong with the way Palestine is treated even though we've had an endless torrent of documented abuse stretching back decades
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Jun 27, 2024 13:18
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I keep slipping bits about Zenz into conversations with people I know, and it almost seems like they're about to cross the threshold, but that's scary so next day it's back to shaking fists at china Edit "But the fact that I immediately believed it really says something about how bad china is!!!"
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Jun 27, 2024 13:25
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I think it was this thread where I posted, if you read accounts by people going to Xinjiang not to prove there's an ongoing genocide, like archeologists working on the Silk Road, they frequently comment on how much it has improved with every visit, as the towns get electrification, new roads, railroad connections, higher standards of living etc. It's always mentioned in passing, just like Egyptologists mention the villages on the way to the Valley of the Kings in passing, but it's pretty clear that things are getting better for the people of Western China. I know you could dismiss these accounts as anecdotes, but historically accounts by archeologists present a fair assessment of the people in regions they're digging in because they're not particularly interested in them. People digging at Machu Picchu, Knossos, Merida (Yucatan), even Hisarlik, were not invested in exoticizing the local people, other than pointing out how remote the dig sites were and speculating if the racial "stock" of the locals could be the same as the great ancient civilization (typically they said "No. Impossible"). As archeologists love bragging about how much they had to rough it "back in the day", even my classmates who dug loved talking about how rough, poor, and remote the Apennines are, they can't resist mentioning how much the area surrounding a dig has improved over the years. "When I went to the Valley of the Kings, you had to go to Cairo to take a hot bath" "There was no wifi on all of Crete when I went with Professor Horlick to..." I've definitely seen this trend with Silk Road sites, especially since the expansion of Late Antiquity's geographic focus from the 2010's. That tells you something because archeologists also love talking about how restrictive the Chinese government is, that no major digs are allowed in China, that foreigners aren't allowed to dig when and where they want etc. etc.
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Jun 27, 2024 13:33
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Nix Panicus posted:I recall China built a prison and wouldn't let anyone go inside, because it was a prison, and that was hailed as proof positive they were carrying out an extermination scheme me screaming at my friends that UN inspectors were denied entry to an Australian prison that had been credibly accused of abusing Aborigines.
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Jun 27, 2024 13:47
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i didn't realize the state department was still pushing the chinese forced organ harvesting propaganda. that's crazy. i thought they dropped it 10 years ago but they pivoted from saying falun gong were getting their organs stolen by the homo communists/alien thralls to saying uyghurs were the victims around 2020 which seems like maybe when they began reducing support for falun gong
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Jun 27, 2024 13:53
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I was trying to find this Zenz stuff like 3 months ago, but now I'll have it for the next round
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Jun 27, 2024 14:01
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Hatebag posted:i didn't realize the state department was still pushing the chinese forced organ harvesting propaganda. that's crazy. i thought they dropped it 10 years ago but they pivoted from saying falun gong were getting their organs stolen by the homo communists/alien thralls to saying uyghurs were the victims around 2020 which seems like maybe when they began reducing support for falun gong When I was in Taiwan three weeks ago there were still posters up and flyers being passed out asking for support for the Falun Gong against organ harvesting by the CCP
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Jun 27, 2024 16:24
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gradenko_2000 posted:When I was in Taiwan three weeks ago there were still posters up and flyers being passed out asking for support for the Falun Gong against organ harvesting by the CCP oh, interesting. i never see anything about it in america anymore. to me it seems like a pretty obviously stupid and fake story, so i wonder how effective it is generally. last time i remember seeing anything about it was at a street fair in ohio like 10 years ago when i accidentally knocked over some lady's display of pictures of purportedly mutilated falun gong members she had foolishly set up on the ground.
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Jun 27, 2024 16:36
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Hatebag posted:oh, interesting. i never see anything about it in america anymore. to me it seems like a pretty obviously stupid and fake story, so i wonder how effective it is generally. Just about everyone I know in Canada believes it on some level, enough to get uncomfortable or mad when I bring it up
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Jun 27, 2024 16:52
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Big "I don't believe Iraq has WMD" vibes
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Jun 27, 2024 16:53
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'scary black vans drive around and kidnap people for organs' is something everyone 'knows' about China here in the UK most people have forgot about it now Xinjiang is the big thing
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Jun 27, 2024 16:56
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Regarde Aduck posted:'scary black vans drive around and kidnap people for organs' is something everyone 'knows' about China here in the UK yeah and when i moved to buffalo people told me to not to stop at red lights on the east side because i'd get carjacked lol
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Jun 27, 2024 16:58
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Nix Panicus posted:I recall China built a prison and wouldn't let anyone go inside, because it was a prison, and that was hailed as proof positive they were carrying out an extermination scheme a couple dnd posts that will live with me forever are basically “wow, with how bad Gaza is, it really puts into perspective how much worse stuff China must be doing.” and, in a sense, that’s perfectly consistent - if the West is telling the truth about China, and the West is truly making policy based on moral principles based on these truths, then yes xinjiang must have it worse than Gaza.
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Jun 27, 2024 17:12
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It was always a political field, especially in Canada, but you can see Oct 7 warp the definition of genocide in real time and any of the rigour of Genocide Studies go out the window. If any other country was liquidating a ghetto, open and shut case, but accusing Russia and China of genocide on the basis of Bucha and Adrien Zenz’s reporting on Xinjiang, while Israel does their thing is causing absolutely incoherent work to come out.
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Jun 27, 2024 17:18
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