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GulagDolls
Jun 4, 2011

take a close look at that enemy number on day 4

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kaschei
Oct 25, 2005

Sandwolf posted:

Alright. Level with me, game.

Merk has admitted to being 3P. If we try and lynch someone else today, we run the risk of lynching town. We also gain the possibility of lynching scum.

However, if we lynch the self-admitted 3P, we will for sure have removed someone from the game who would not be playing to the town’s best interests (at best) or actively against us (at worst).

Can someone defend why we shouldn’t lynch merk, following the above logic? I have tunnel vision on this rn because I cannot think of a reasonable alternative.

I don care about his role, either. Not a single reason to trust him.
every lynch has an opportunity cost and if he's not scum, lynching him doesn't help town win.

He *should* either be lynched, vig'd, or ignored (as a non-town perspective). I'm on "ignore" for now, and hoping the matter resolves itself (vig). A D1 third party lynch doesn't say anything about alignments.

pet theory: his role is so scummy he claimed the name of it so that his flip wouldn't reflect on his scumpadres

kaschei
Oct 25, 2005

Mr. Steak posted:

i think its likely the info about scumteams is true. any fakeclaim worth its salt will have nuggets of truth in there, and there are plenty of reasons why merk would choose the existence of 2 scum teams as the true part. it's information that neither town nor scum are expected to know on d1, it'll most likely be confirmed after just 1 day if there are multiple nightkills with scum flavor, and its information that categorically "helps" town by telling thread. so i can easily see merk getting confirmed as town d2 based on that. maybe that was his goal
explain how he gets confirmed town after claiming third party d1?

A Sometimes Food
Dec 8, 2010

kaschei posted:

every lynch has an opportunity cost and if he's not scum, lynching him doesn't help town win.

He *should* either be lynched, vig'd, or ignored (as a non-town perspective). I'm on "ignore" for now, and hoping the matter resolves itself (vig). A D1 third party lynch doesn't say anything about alignments.

pet theory: his role is so scummy he claimed the name of it so that his flip wouldn't reflect on his scumpadres

This is pretty much where I am, we still have nearly two days until deadline, if he's telling the truth a 3p cuddle tells us little. It's better than no cuddle so if we have to I will go with it but I don't want to push it this early.

Dick Bastardly posted:

top o' the mornin (evening for me) to ya, hows the weather down undah?

Pretty good, lingering winter coolness but nice and sunny. Up there?

GulagDolls
Jun 4, 2011

you know whats really telling: how many people are unwilling to turbo infinitium

Monathin
Sep 1, 2011

?????????
?

GulagDolls posted:

you know whats really telling: how many people are unwilling to turbo infinitium

i actually agree w/this post

Infinitum
Jul 30, 2004


GulagDolls posted:

so i dont know what the point of us not getting alignmnent flips is...unless... this message can be fux0red with

Could be a number of different scenarios here:
- Would like to strike out bad faith info from the game mod, so we assume this info is 'correct'
- It also doesn't exclude the possibility that people can 'hide' from the AI, and not be counted
- Regardless of their individual alignments, it basically boils the game down to Town Vs Not Town numbers.
- Going to game theory a bit and suggest that number will be in flux constantly, and we will likely see an increase due to alignment fuckery
- the AI is also listed as useless

~data~

Mr. Steak posted:

so i can easily see merk getting confirmed as town d2 based on that. maybe that was his goal

lol get fuuuuuckkkked


Monathin posted:

i actually agree w/this post

何だこれは?

Natural 20
Sep 17, 2007

Wearer of Compasses. Slayer of Gods. Champion of the Colosseum. Heart of the Void.
Saviour of Hallownest.

Mr. Steak posted:

i think its likely the info about scumteams is true. any fakeclaim worth its salt will have nuggets of truth in there, and there are plenty of reasons why merk would choose the existence of 2 scum teams as the true part. it's information that neither town nor scum are expected to know on d1, it'll most likely be confirmed after just 1 day if there are multiple nightkills with scum flavor, and its information that categorically "helps" town by telling thread. so i can easily see merk getting confirmed as town d2 based on that. maybe that was his goal

So what you're saying is that if we let him live he'll prove his claim and give us information?

And you want him out?

Also I mean, it's pretty difficult for us to confirm a claimed 3p town.

Mr. Steak
May 9, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Natural 20 posted:

So what you're saying is that if we let him live he'll prove his claim and give us information?

And you want him out?

Also I mean, it's pretty difficult for us to confirm a claimed 3p town.

no, merk will be dead weight if he lives. you think any information we get from someone who admitted he'll lie is going to be of any use to town? his role will only sow confusion even if he's town, (which he certainly isnt) so who cares whichever form of "not town" he is. lynch him

kaschei
Oct 25, 2005

Mr. Steak posted:

no, merk will be dead weight if he lives. you think any information we get from someone who admitted he'll lie is going to be of any use to town? his role will only sow confusion even if he's town, (which he certainly isnt) so who cares whichever form of "not town" he is. lynch him
##vote mrs. teak

merk
May 20, 2003

##interact

Mr. Steak posted:

no, merk will be dead weight if he lives. you think any information we get from someone who admitted he'll lie is going to be of any use to town? his role will only sow confusion even if he's town, (which he certainly isnt) so who cares whichever form of "not town" he is. lynch him

This is a huge assumption. You have no idea what information I might provide.

You aren’t thinking this through. You just want blood. ##vote Steak

Infinitum
Jul 30, 2004


Merk + Steak some combo of 3P + Scum

Both bad.
Merk first because he ruined jokephase

merk
May 20, 2003

##interact
What a take

Tommu
Aug 4, 2019

O vanity of Sleep, Hope, Dream, endless Desire,
The Horses of Disaster plunge in the heavy clay

Infinitum posted:

Merk + Steak some combo of 3P + Scum

Both bad.
Merk first because he ruined jokephase

Its still joke phase when you're alive

Infinitum
Jul 30, 2004


You think I'm funny? I really appreciate that mate, thank you.

votefinder
Jul 6, 2010

scoop scoop
Votecount for Day 1

merk (8): Sandwolf, Anomalous Amalgam, Anomalous Amalgam, Mr. Steak, Leith Maclaine, Dick Bastardly, CirclMastr, CapitalistPig, Leith Maclaine, Tommu, Infinitum, Retro Futurist
Mr. Steak (4): Dick Bastardly, Natural 20, Mr. Humalong, Dick Bastardly, kaschei, merk
Infinitum (2): SolusLunes, GulagDolls
Hal Incandenza (1): Little Mac
Dick Bastardly (1): A Sometimes Food
Leith Maclaine (1): Hal Incandenza, merk, merk
Anomalous Amalgam (0): Infinitum, Tommu, Tommu, Infinitum
SolusLunes (0): kaschei, kaschei

Not Voting (4): Anomalous Amalgam, b-minus1, Leith Maclaine, Monathin

With 21 alive, it's 11 votes to execute. The current deadline is October 19th, 2019 at 5 p.m. CDT -- that's in about 1 day, 10 hours.

Cartridgeblowers
Jan 3, 2006

Super Mario Bros 3

Maybe merk didn't realize alignment flips were in the game when he signed up and now he wants out

Anomalous Amalgam
Feb 13, 2015

by Nyc_Tattoo
Doctor Rope

Little Mac posted:

Maybe merk didn't realize alignment flips were in the game when he signed up and now he wants out

Why not replace

SolusLunes
Oct 10, 2011

I now have several regrets.

:barf:

Sandwolf posted:

No ones “hunting” a 3P - he claimed, he told us bluntly he does not have our best interests as his first priority, let’s lynch him and then we’ll have a whole day of interactions to find scum in. Hell, I’ve already got a couple people on my radar! People reveal a lot in how they talk about merk, it’s there.

As for the information part: he has already stated he would be on our side but we also have noooo reeeeason to believe anything he says. Every bit of info we’re gonna hem and haw about it being truthful!! Let’s just kill the 3P!!

##vote Sandwolf

Scum has a vested interest in 3p hunting and trying to turn it into cred. I don't think you're coming from a town perspective and I think you're trying to achieve something you can coast on.

SolusLunes
Oct 10, 2011

I now have several regrets.

:barf:

GulagDolls posted:

so i dont know what the point of us not getting alignmnent flips is...unless... this message can be fux0red with


Sandwolf posted:

So presumably, without a flip, the number should go down from ~6(?) every time we lynch scum, no? Or I guess they could have died in the night too.

Not necessarily. If that's a beginning-of-day message only, then the fact that there are alignment flipping possibilities means that even if we lynch scum one day, that number might stay the same due to the addition of non-town.

Anomalous Amalgam
Feb 13, 2015

by Nyc_Tattoo
Doctor Rope
##vote merk

b-minus1
Jul 24, 2008

She's a maniac, maniac
on the floor
And she's dancing like she's never danced before
##vote sandwolf

b-minus1
Jul 24, 2008

She's a maniac, maniac
on the floor
And she's dancing like she's never danced before
Happy Friday, everyone

merk
May 20, 2003

##interact
Sad wolf, who do you think is scum today?

Hal Incandenza
Feb 12, 2004

merk posted:

Sad wolf, who do you think is scum today?

Lol I know that wasn't a typo and it made me laugh

Hal Incandenza
Feb 12, 2004

Natural 20 posted:

So what you're saying is that if we let him live he'll prove his claim and give us information?

And you want him out?

Also I mean, it's pretty difficult for us to confirm a claimed 3p town.

Mr steak has a skewed view of lying survivors because he somehow convinced most of the town he was a cop when he was a survivor and that carried him to the endgame even though he spewed out patently false results the entire game and almost lost the game for town because of it.

To be fair it was sort of brilliant but also pretty lucky because town was sorta dumb that game

I think that's colored his view of the survivor role though

Infinitum
Jul 30, 2004


If you explicitly lie about results as town, you're a butt

Anomalous Amalgam
Feb 13, 2015

by Nyc_Tattoo
Doctor Rope

Infinitum posted:

If you explicitly lie about results as town, you're a butt

/shrug

seems situational, and in that case steak wasn't town.

I think we should just kill merk. We cannot trust him beyond his word.

If it was a gambit, it will be revealed.
If he is 3P, he is not town.
Mod already confirmed alignment switching mechanics during recruit so not a surprise there.

All we know with certainty is that merk has revealed himself as Not-Town and it's a bit xenophobic IRL, but in the game of mafia, he is not one of us.
Put him on the gallows and be done with it.

Anomalous Amalgam
Feb 13, 2015

by Nyc_Tattoo
Doctor Rope
If Wolf is a scum in a multi scum game, let them deal with him or any number of megaman baddies. You ro-butts.

Natural 20
Sep 17, 2007

Wearer of Compasses. Slayer of Gods. Champion of the Colosseum. Heart of the Void.
Saviour of Hallownest.

Infinitum posted:

If you explicitly lie about results as town, you're a butt

:ironicat:

Dick Bastardly
Aug 22, 2012

Muttley is SKYNET!!!

A Sometimes Food posted:

Pretty good, lingering winter coolness but nice and sunny. Up there?

un-seasonably warm but only in my region which is kinda weird except for the fact that i'm surrounded by giant lakes which i'm sure has something do do with it

Dick Bastardly
Aug 22, 2012

Muttley is SKYNET!!!

Hal Incandenza posted:

Lol I know that wasn't a typo and it made me laugh

:same:

Mr. Steak
May 9, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Hal Incandenza posted:

Mr steak has a skewed view of lying survivors because he somehow convinced most of the town he was a cop when he was a survivor and that carried him to the endgame even though he spewed out patently false results the entire game and almost lost the game for town because of it.

To be fair it was sort of brilliant but also pretty lucky because town was sorta dumb that game

I think that's colored his view of the survivor role though

well, i also had scum fooled for most of the game and like 3 no-kills can be attributed to them trying to target me, so i think i actually helped town win

b-minus1
Jul 24, 2008

She's a maniac, maniac
on the floor
And she's dancing like she's never danced before

Anomalous Amalgam posted:

If Wolf is a scum in a multi scum game, let them deal with him or any number of megaman baddies. You ro-butts.
:what:

SolusLunes
Oct 10, 2011

I now have several regrets.

:barf:

Mr. Steak posted:

well, i also had scum fooled for most of the game and like 3 no-kills can be attributed to them trying to target me, so i think i actually helped town win

yeah I'd say this is a fair cop, guv

SolusLunes
Oct 10, 2011

I now have several regrets.

:barf:

Anomalous Amalgam posted:

If Wolf is a scum in a multi scum game, let them deal with him or any number of megaman baddies. You ro-butts.

yeah I uh what

why would you not go for someone that's scum, and expect the scum/3p to take care of him

b-minus1
Jul 24, 2008

She's a maniac, maniac
on the floor
And she's dancing like she's never danced before
sandwolf's overuse of the exclamation point clued me into his scuminess. the game's up, scumwolf. your punctuation was your downfall.

Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo


merk posted:

Sad wolf, who do you think is scum today?

a little too accurate :(

I think DB is scummy, I think Monathin is scummy. I’m not pursuing these loving lynches because I don’t know they’re scum, but I know you’re not town. So stupid.

I’m also pretty perplexed so many people are willing to shoot into the crowd instead of lynching the friggin person who told us they don’t win with us and sent a “come get me” out to alignment-flippers.

Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo


I also cannot follow Steak’s line of reasoning in many of his arguments but he’s sure making them loud and proud. I don’t think he’s scum.

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Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo


SolusLunes posted:

##vote Sandwolf

Scum has a vested interest in 3p hunting and trying to turn it into cred. I don't think you're coming from a town perspective and I think you're trying to achieve something you can coast on.

Here’s a game then: lynch merk with me, and if I’m still coasting TOMORROW on this, then you can call me scum for it.

I’m trying to NOT make a big deal out of this 3P poo poo. We should have just lynched him and gone on to day 2. He’s gonna end up slipping the loving noose and we’re gonna kill some random town member and then we will have this constant specter over us of: “Well, do we kill merk now?” Because YES he’s a survivor NOW but IF HE GETS ALIGNMENT FLIPPED we have NO IDEA when to kill him.

Ho hum

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