Grognard Games Megathread - Registered Hex Offenders.

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distortion park: Apr 25, 2011

After playing UoC 2 some more I think it's really great, just the right level of depth for me and a nice fast pace to it. I have three annoyances though (which I think others have highlighted as well):
1) No restart from turn 1 - it's annoying to do the setup every time
2) It requires multiple unspent movement points to move onto a hex with a HQ. This is normally reasonable enough, but can be frustrating when the enemy HQ ends up an objective on the final turn. Obviously you can play around this but it is easy to miscalculate or forget.
3) The AI seems to be aware of both the turn limits and your objectives, and it will sometimes play very passively until it's final turn (which you can't respond to) when it will launch an all out assault on one of the objectives. Again you can play around this but the first time it happens it can be annoying.

# ? Mar 29, 2020 14:20

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# ? Jun 6, 2024 21:45

Hammerstein: May 6, 2005; YOU DON'T KNOW A DAMN THING ABOUT RACING !

gradenko_2000 posted:

The original Panzer General had a "Rugged Defense" mechanic:

if a unit attacked an entrenched unit, there would a chance for Rugged Defense to trigger. If it triggered, the penalized unit would use its "Close Defense" stat in combat and have its initiative set to zero, and the entrenched unit would get a big boost to its attack and defense, and the entrenched unit would almost always go first because of the penalized unit's zero initiative

infantry could entrench quickly (I believe 3 levels of entrenchment per turn), and tanks had bad Close Defense compared to their normal Soft/Hard Defense, so if tanks attacked entrenched infantry, they'd probably get Rugged Defense'd and take heavy losses

the solution was to either use Pioneers/Engineers, which ignore all entrenchment points, and/or hit a unit with multiple attacks to reduce its entrenchment - each attack reduces entrenchment by 1. Artillery and air attacks could hit a unit safely without triggering Rugged Defense, but if you can't scrounge enough indirect fire to reduce entrenchment to zero, then you'd have to be willing to soak off the entrenchment via direct attacks, in which case you'd want to use infantry since they at least ignore half the entrenchment's bonus to defense and typically have better Close Defense values even if they got a Rugged Defense

high experience also helps, since the Rugged Defense chance is affected by a difference in experience between units

Wow, thanks for the refresh, it's been 26 years after all and now I can finally remember how it worked.

# ? Mar 29, 2020 14:23

Panzeh: Nov 27, 2006; "..The high ground"

pedro0930 posted:

Anyways, how do I capture a poo poo ton of stuff in Panzer Corps 2 besides devoting 6 units and artillery per turn? Just force retreat into river and pray there's still enough things to capture after hitting it again?

Use splitting and flexible command, especially with recons(that can move, split, reform, move). The bonus with splitting is that it gives you shots that are likely to do 1 damage which will cause a fully suppressed units to retreat which maximizes your equipment gain.

gradenko_2000 posted:

The original Panzer General had a "Rugged Defense" mechanic:

if a unit attacked an entrenched unit, there would a chance for Rugged Defense to trigger. If it triggered, the penalized unit would use its "Close Defense" stat in combat and have its initiative set to zero, and the entrenched unit would get a big boost to its attack and defense, and the entrenched unit would almost always go first because of the penalized unit's zero initiative

infantry could entrench quickly (I believe 3 levels of entrenchment per turn), and tanks had bad Close Defense compared to their normal Soft/Hard Defense, so if tanks attacked entrenched infantry, they'd probably get Rugged Defense'd and take heavy losses

the solution was to either use Pioneers/Engineers, which ignore all entrenchment points, and/or hit a unit with multiple attacks to reduce its entrenchment - each attack reduces entrenchment by 1. Artillery and air attacks could hit a unit safely without triggering Rugged Defense, but if you can't scrounge enough indirect fire to reduce entrenchment to zero, then you'd have to be willing to soak off the entrenchment via direct attacks, in which case you'd want to use infantry since they at least ignore half the entrenchment's bonus to defense and typically have better Close Defense values even if they got a Rugged Defense

high experience also helps, since the Rugged Defense chance is affected by a difference in experience between units

In PC2 now, any combat involving a unit with 'close fighter(all infantry has this)' in a close terrain hex causes units to use their close defense value. There's no rugged defense any more, but infantry now has 15 steps base and entrenchment cannot be reduced below certain minimum values.

Pioneers still ignore all entrenchment but now they also cause neighboring units to ignore 50% of enemy entrenchment, too. Pioneers are a bit broken IMO, though they use up more core slots than normal infantry. In theory, a normal infantry next to a pioneer can do more damage than a pioneer itself, but this requires some significant setup, and it's usually better to just use overstrength pioneers rather than try to work the situations where you can set up an attack with two infantry units in this way.

# ? Mar 29, 2020 15:15

Count Thrashula: Jun 1, 2003; Death is nothing compared to vindication.; Buglord

Ugh I wanna get into JTS games so bad, but at $40 a pop, and there's so many I want...ah well.

# ? Mar 29, 2020 15:23

pedro0930: Oct 15, 2012

Splitting with recon is a good call, uses less unit and do lower damage. Though looks like you pretty much have to build the whole campaign around it to get enough trophies.

pedro0930 fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Mar 29, 2020

# ? Mar 29, 2020 15:54

Panzeh: Nov 27, 2006; "..The high ground"

pedro0930 posted:

Splitting with recon is a good call, uses less unit and do lower damage. Though looks like you pretty much have to build the whole campaign around it to get enough stuff to get enough trophies.

Yeah, in the blitzkrieg campaigns you'll be lucky to get enough units to form anything(I have used a b1 bis in Paris), once you get to the '41 sections you'll face similar opponents for long enough to get useful equipment, though the Russians have some juicy t-34s if you can get your hands on them.

Overall, though, if you're going for capture you need to take a good perk setup for it, plunder, deadly grasp, flexible command, and perimeter control.

# ? Mar 29, 2020 15:57

Squiggle: Sep 29, 2002; I don't think she likes the special sauce, Rick.

COOL CORN posted:

Ugh I wanna get into JTS games so bad, but at $40 a pop, and there's so many I want...ah well.

Them demos for Panzer Campaigns and Panzer Battles, at least, will last quite a while.

For what it's worth, after AGONIZING over it, I wound up with Karkov '42 and Minsk '44 out of the PC set, and Battles of Normandy out of the PB games.

That said, if I recall, you're one of the wargames thread's Napoleonic dorks - which I'm not, so that DID help limit my choices pretty heavily.

# ? Mar 29, 2020 20:10

Hypnobeard: Sep 15, 2004; Obey the Beard

COOL CORN posted:

Ugh I wanna get into JTS games so bad, but at $40 a pop, and there's so many I want...ah well.

Join usssss...... let Hippocrass or gradenko kick your rear end...

# ? Mar 29, 2020 20:33

Hypnobeard: Sep 15, 2004; Obey the Beard

Hippocrass posted:

Since there hasn't been much John Tiller discussion, JTS just released the third game in their First World War Campaign series, Serbia '14, Expanding the "grand campaign" for the whole series. There's also been a lot of updating work on their other series', With Napoleonic and Civil War battles being concluded, and a few of their older discontinued series' finally getting an actual map creator tool.

Picked it up, it's going to be wacky. Did the intro scenario as the Serbs and absolutely abused an AH infantry division. Like everyone was low ammo after the first couple of volleys and I Broke half a dozen of the regiments in the division. The AI was idiotic as usual, stacking all 16+ MG units in a single hex and not using them in the attack, which was certainly a choice.

I think I may have swung enough to want to try and do an LP of the campaigns again.

# ? Mar 29, 2020 20:37

Squiggle: Sep 29, 2002; I don't think she likes the special sauce, Rick.

Hypnobeard posted:

Picked it up, it's going to be wacky. Did the intro scenario as the Serbs and absolutely abused an AH infantry division. Like everyone was low ammo after the first couple of volleys and I Broke half a dozen of the regiments in the division. The AI was idiotic as usual, stacking all 16+ MG units in a single hex and not using them in the attack, which was certainly a choice.

I think I may have swung enough to want to try and do an LP of the campaigns again.

I just pretend JTS models their generals as extreme morons which is at least in some cases not that ahistorical

# ? Mar 29, 2020 20:42

Hypnobeard: Sep 15, 2004; Obey the Beard

Squiggle posted:

I just pretend JTS models their generals as extreme morons which is at least in some cases not that ahistorical

Yeah, it was just really hilarious seeing the stack. My partisans got close enough to let me scroll through the like 16 in the hex and it was just all of the MG units plus an HQ. They were ~6 km from the actual front just hanging out, while the regular infantry units stacked up four to the hex at the bottom of an incline getting murdered.

# ? Mar 29, 2020 20:45

Hippocrass: Aug 18, 2015; That third panel of the first comic just makes it. It's still funny if you remove it, but that panel included just makes it top tier.

gradenko_2000 posted:

I've actually been playing a PBEM of John Tiller's Napoleon - Campaign Marengo with another goon. I'll post a trip report once we're done with the match, I think we've got three turns left to go.

Is the Modern Campaigns series any good?

I haven't played much due to time, but I've heard good things. Don't bother with Fulda Gap or North German Plain since Danube front contains the whole German theatre including Berlin making the other two redundant.

I've been playing in a tournament for Eylau-Freidland the last several months. Was actually working on a Let's Play of it but my main computer died, and I lost too much. I've learned that I have a nasty habit of throwing cavalry away on foolish charges. I'm planning a play through of 7 years war, since it's a simpler type of warfare and punishes charging infantry most of the time while still basically being the same engine. Also the new, massive 150 to 300 turn hypothetical scenarios look interesting if anyone wants to spend a decade moving pixelmen across Belgium. Why did Tiller have to make so many games!

# ? Mar 29, 2020 21:20

uPen: Jan 25, 2010; Zu Rodina!

Think I'm done with this with game. Sank a cvl a hex off Pearl with cruisers the first week in January. Now the first week of Feb akagi and kaga show up in the same hex with 2 destroyers for escort and get pasted by the Mississippi reacting out with a few light cruisers. It's just not fun to put in so much time for the ai to just throw the game away.

Maybe I'll try a game as the Japanese.

# ? Mar 30, 2020 05:16

BBJoey: Oct 31, 2012

oops posted too early

pointsofdata posted:

3) The AI seems to be aware of both the turn limits and your objectives, and it will sometimes play very passively until it's final turn (which you can't respond to) when it will launch an all out assault on one of the objectives. Again you can play around this but the first time it happens it can be annoying.

I don't think it's necessarily a last turn thing. Since the first game the AI has always been very aggressive in counterattacking to retake objectives whenever there's an opportunity to do so. As a rule you want to screen the objective with friendlies, or land your strongest unit on the objective hex to discourage an attack.

BBJoey fucked around with this message at 05:55 on Mar 30, 2020

# ? Mar 30, 2020 05:51

ZombieLenin: Sep 6, 2009; "Democracy for the insignificant minority, democracy for the rich--that is the democracy of capitalist society." VI Lenin

[/quote]

Hypnobeard posted:

Picked it up, it's going to be wacky. Did the intro scenario as the Serbs and absolutely abused an AH infantry division. Like everyone was low ammo after the first couple of volleys and I Broke half a dozen of the regiments in the division. The AI was idiotic as usual, stacking all 16+ MG units in a single hex and not using them in the attack, which was certainly a choice.

I think I may have swung enough to want to try and do an LP of the campaigns again.

I mean, in 1914 (gently caress the entire war almost) machine guns were considered a cumbersome weapon only suited for defense.

So the AI is just giving you some historical flavor.

# ? Mar 30, 2020 14:10

Count Thrashula: Jun 1, 2003; Death is nothing compared to vindication.; Buglord

France 14 or East Prussia 14 or Serbia 14 might just be meaty enough for me to invest in a JTS game.

There's really a dearth of hex-based WW1 PC games.

# ? Mar 30, 2020 14:19

Hypnobeard: Sep 15, 2004; Obey the Beard

ZombieLenin posted:

I mean, in 1914 (gently caress the entire war almost) machine guns were considered a cumbersome weapon only suited for defense.

So the AI is just giving you some historical flavor.

Yeah, probably. Didn't nearly bring enough artillery, though.

COOL CORN posted:

France 14 or East Prussia 14 or Serbia 14 might just be meaty enough for me to invest in a JTS game.

There's really a dearth of hex-based WW1 PC games.

If you pick one of 'em up, happy to do some PBEM.

# ? Mar 30, 2020 14:49

ZombieLenin: Sep 6, 2009; "Democracy for the insignificant minority, democracy for the rich--that is the democracy of capitalist society." VI Lenin

[/quote]

Has anyone played the JTS tactical First World War stuff? I have always dreamed of a good meat grinder trench warfare game, but never pulled the trigger on the JTS stuff because the engine is so old...

But now that I have plenty of time to kill at home every night, it might be worth it.

# ? Mar 30, 2020 17:23

Count Thrashula: Jun 1, 2003; Death is nothing compared to vindication.; Buglord

ZombieLenin posted:

Has anyone played the JTS tactical First World War stuff? I have always dreamed of a good meat grinder trench warfare game, but never pulled the trigger on the JTS stuff because the engine is so old...

But now that I have plenty of time to kill at home every night, it might be worth it.

Those specific games are mentioned on both this and the last page, as well as JTS games in general. I've played a few of the WW2 and Napoleonic ones, and they're really well done.

# ? Mar 30, 2020 18:56

Hypnobeard: Sep 15, 2004; Obey the Beard

ZombieLenin posted:

Has anyone played the JTS tactical First World War stuff? I have always dreamed of a good meat grinder trench warfare game, but never pulled the trigger on the JTS stuff because the engine is so old...

But now that I have plenty of time to kill at home every night, it might be worth it.

COOL CORN posted:

Those specific games are mentioned on both this and the last page, as well as JTS games in general. I've played a few of the WW2 and Napoleonic ones, and they're really well done.

There's also the First World War Squad Battles entry (http://www.johntillersoftware.com/SquadBattles/FirstWorldWar.html) which is actually tactical instead of the roughly operational level of the other games. (40m vs 1km hexes, squads vs battalion/company units).

Any of these would satisfy the meatgrinder, though.

# ? Mar 30, 2020 23:32

Count Thrashula: Jun 1, 2003; Death is nothing compared to vindication.; Buglord

My mistake! I missed the "tactical" part of the request

# ? Mar 31, 2020 00:00

Hypnobeard: Sep 15, 2004; Obey the Beard

COOL CORN posted:

My mistake! I missed the "tactical" part of the request

Nah, they all feel tactical somehow.

# ? Mar 31, 2020 00:09

ProfFrink: Nov 7, 2007; "Stun" may be a bit of a misnomer.

For the JTS games with the big campaign scenarios, is the AI worth a drat?
The choose your own adventure style campaigns are ok, but I'm really interested in playing it out.
Mostly interested in WWI and ACW games.

# ? Mar 31, 2020 02:38

Hypnobeard: Sep 15, 2004; Obey the Beard

ProfFrink posted:

For the JTS games with the big campaign scenarios, is the AI worth a drat?
The choose your own adventure style campaigns are ok, but I'm really interested in playing it out.
Mostly interested in WWI and ACW games.

AI in JTS games is charmingly dumb, and the bigger the scenario the dumber it gets. Occasionally it looks clever because it does something so stupid you couldn't reasonably have expected it, but they're much better games played with a human opponent.

Like, get them because they cover (in often exhausting detail) a huge variety of military conflicts and have a reasonably active community. The AI is ..adequate, technically.

# ? Mar 31, 2020 03:54

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Yeah the AI is okay. All of the JT games always devolve into such large campaign-spanning maps with hundreds of units that simply doing a turn and keeping a plan together can be daunting, and in that sense, an AI that is even just capable of fighting back can be more than enough of a challenge, especially since you've also got a time limit to worry about, and those can be tight.

Whenever the scenario is too large for the AI to be playable, the scenario description will tell you about it - like there's a monster 500+ turn scenario in Campaign Peninsula that does the entire Seven Days Battles in one go that specifically says you're only supposed to play it with a human opponent, but not only are most scenarios small enough that the AI can be used, there are also even scenario variants that are specifically geared for vs-AI play, alongside scenarios that are intended for vs-human matchups.

# ? Mar 31, 2020 04:36

Hippocrass: Aug 18, 2015; That third panel of the first comic just makes it. It's still funny if you remove it, but that panel included just makes it top tier.

ZombieLenin posted:

Has anyone played the JTS tactical First World War stuff? I have always dreamed of a good meat grinder trench warfare game, but never pulled the trigger on the JTS stuff because the engine is so old...

But now that I have plenty of time to kill at home every night, it might be worth it.

The squad battles game is pretty neat, but has some flaws. The scenario selection is weird, like literally the only 1915 scenarios are Gallipoli. Squad Battles as a series also has weapon degradation for some reason, and I can never figure out what exactly it's trying to model. It also doesn't model tanks very well, but that's more of an issue with WW2 tanks than WW1. It does showcase the evolution of infantry tactics from basically Napoleonic style charges to modern squad tactics.

# ? Mar 31, 2020 10:07

Hypnobeard: Sep 15, 2004; Obey the Beard

If anyone wants to PBEM any scenario in one of these, I'm down:

First World War Squad Battles
France '14
East Prussia '14
Serbia '14
Campaign Marengo

I'm also willing to pick up other games if someone's interested.

# ? Mar 31, 2020 14:40

Yooper: Apr 30, 2012

Saw this on the Matrix forums today. The ultimate drone tanker battle wagon.

# ? Apr 1, 2020 02:25

Yooper: Apr 30, 2012

Anyone tried the JTS naval games?

http://www.johntillersoftware.com/NavalCampaigns/Wolfpack.html

# ? Apr 3, 2020 02:13

mllaneza: Apr 28, 2007; Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952

The April 1st update for Ultimate Admiral: Dreadnought had a nice treat for us. The ran the timeline all the way back to 1861 and gave use hull types and parts to recreate the Monitor v Virginia battle. Two scenarios, one building a monitor and one building a casemate ironclad. I've played both. Damage is done, but I wasn't able to sink anything in either action.

Good on them !

# ? Apr 3, 2020 02:20

uPen: Jan 25, 2010; Zu Rodina!

Yooper posted:

Anyone tried the JTS naval games?

http://www.johntillersoftware.com/NavalCampaigns/Wolfpack.html

I own JTS Midway and despise it!

# ? Apr 3, 2020 02:24

Hypnobeard: Sep 15, 2004; Obey the Beard

Yooper posted:

Anyone tried the JTS naval games?

http://www.johntillersoftware.com/NavalCampaigns/Wolfpack.html

I think the thread consensus was that they suck and you should not get them.

# ? Apr 3, 2020 14:33

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

for a somewhat more detailed answer: the game is far too simplistic to really be satisfying - I have the Guadalcanal game and basically all you do is determine the direction that the ships will sail in. All the targeting is done for you, it's difficult to get a sense of how effective your fire is, and the critical hit system (basically something like a 2% chance that any given hit is just going to insta-kill the boat) makes the engagements feel random and arbitrary

I suppose if you're playing something like Jutland or Tsushima there's actually enough ships that managing the entire fleet becomes an engaging experience, but then that's just because there's a lot more busywork, and since torpedo shots have to be manually done, at those larger scales it starts working against you

# ? Apr 3, 2020 14:45

Hippocrass: Aug 18, 2015; That third panel of the first comic just makes it. It's still funny if you remove it, but that panel included just makes it top tier.

Has anyone tried the naval games since the latest rounds of updates? Was anything improved?

Also, all the JTS naval games got updates recently in case people didn't know.

# ? Apr 4, 2020 10:45

Hippocrass: Aug 18, 2015; That third panel of the first comic just makes it. It's still funny if you remove it, but that panel included just makes it top tier.

The 'Panzer Campaigns' devs have released a look at their upcoming release, Sheldt '44.
Nice to see more ww2 games focusing on the Canadians and Poles.

# ? Apr 6, 2020 02:30

V for Vegas: Sep 1, 2004; THUNDERDOME LOSER

Wow, Lock'n'Load digital is on steam for a few bucks

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1149940

# ? Apr 6, 2020 09:17

mllaneza: Apr 28, 2007; Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952

V for Vegas posted:

Wow, Lock'n'Load digital is on steam for a few bucks

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1149940

I'm in. That's got multiplayer, right ?

# ? Apr 6, 2020 09:55

Alchenar: Apr 9, 2008

I don't know coding, but it seems intuitively odd that only some of the 4 scenarios are available on multiplayer yet.

e: but that price is absolute punt territory. Lets see.

Alchenar fucked around with this message at 12:39 on Apr 6, 2020

# ? Apr 6, 2020 12:33

ZombieLenin: Sep 6, 2009; "Democracy for the insignificant minority, democracy for the rich--that is the democracy of capitalist society." VI Lenin

[/quote]

Anyone else wish CMANO has more pretty animations of ships being hit by incoming missles, including nukes, like old school Harpoon? I would play the game way more tbh.

# ? Apr 6, 2020 13:15

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# ? Jun 6, 2024 21:45

Count Thrashula: Jun 1, 2003; Death is nothing compared to vindication.; Buglord

Alchenar posted:

I don't know coding, but it seems intuitively odd that only some of the 4 scenarios are available on multiplayer yet.

e: but that price is absolute punt territory. Lets see.

Those are the sample scenarios. Buy the Normandy pack to get all the Normandy scenarios. By the Nam pack to get all of those. They're all there.

# ? Apr 6, 2020 13:16

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