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Grey Hunter
Oct 17, 2007

Your friendly croctopus overlord LP'er

Grognard Games Megathread - Registered Hex Offenders.

Some people play games to be dazzled by the graphics, the photorealism, the dynamic lighting.
We are not those people. We get excited when a game lets us design our own ship, we get excited because this game has a goddamn usable UI
Weíre masochists.
Why do we do it? Well, when you get down to it, there is something satisfying about the detail, we love the fact that we can refight history and try and not make the same mistakes, we love the idea of commanding a hundred divisions with a million men it it.

We live for the thrill of that perfect encirclement.

What is a Grognard Game?
Itís a wide term, taken from Napoleon's grumbling veterans - but they tend to be historical games that place an emphasis on accuracy over gameplay - Total Wars burning pigs and swarms of Attack dogs are out, and worrying about which model of tank you have is in. Turns can take hours to plan and play out, and they take patience- not helped by the fact that the developers are small teams who tend to forget about things like usability.

Where should I start?
Thatís a hard one, most of these games are daunting, and can overwhelm people, but itís best to pick a period of history you like and find a game - the thread has some darlings of course, and is always ready to help new people find their way.

LPís are always useful, and can give a insight into the strengths and weaknesses of the games.

Multiplayer?
Yes, a lot of games have multiplayer, but it tends to be turn based and sent via email. We sometimes try and get games going, before they fizzle out after a few turns.
Weíll keep trying though!

So, hit me with some suggestions!
Here we are - good list of games to get you into the dark side of gaming. This is going to be a long one!

Rule the Waves 2


While not out at the time of writing, Rule the Waves 2 is the most hotly anticipated title of the year for Grogs. The first game allowed you to build ships and manage a navy from 1900 to 1925 - the sequel takes this timeline further and introduces carriers!

Yes, I know it looks like it was programmed in windows 3.1. Youíll be amazed how addictive it is, and everyone goes in with this ideal dream of perfect ships, but soon your whacking turrets on here and there in an attempt to get something out there that will actually be able to fight.


Matrix games/Sliterine Games

Matrix games/Slitherine (they kinda merged, but kindas still exist separately. Itís like microcosm of the genre really) is really your first stop when looking for strategy games, as they are the biggest publisher on the block at the moment, and they have everything from hexed based games to the updated games of the close combat series - you should be able to find something for your tastes here. Listing their games would make for a wall of text, so visit their site and have a look.

War in the Pacific


Of these, War In the Pacific is their big seller, and my personal favourite. It covers the titular war in turns of one to three days. allowing you to use any of the ships or planes in stunning and sometime brain breaking detail.

War in the East/West


Another game of interest is War in the East Ė a regimental/division scale game that features a map of Russia at 10km hex scale! This one is a monster, and is the best (IMO) game for recreating the Great Patriotic War.

War in the west is the same, but for the Western front, starting with the invasion of Sicily, this one is an easier ride for new players - although some people find it hard to get to grip with the air phase.

Unity of Command


Interested in the Eastern front but no willing to go big? Unity of Command it a great beginners game, simpler and easy to get into, it can be called more of a puzzle game, but then again, that may be what your interested in Ė its also available on steam and doesnít cost the earth!




Panzer Corps


This is a classic game given a new engine, again, it could be considered a light game, but its not without its tactical depth. It has numerous expansions, and covers many theaters.

Decisive Campaigns : Barbarossa.
Another turn based invasion of the Soviet Union, but this time you have a political layer on top - do well and you will be rewards by Hitler - but this may make you enemies amoungst the rest of the General Staff.

Command Ops 2


Command Ops 2 Ė this real time strategy has good ai, a Company scale setting and also has Market Garden, Crete and North africa expansions.
The base package if free, and include the tutorials, then you buy the modules you want.

Armoured Brigade


Top down cold war action, still a little bare bones, but generally considered a good game.

Command Modern Air/Naval Operations (CMANO)


Go Ultra modern with this recreation of air and sea combat. There is no real grand campaign, but tons of DLC to bring most eras of post WWII warfare to life.

HPS Simulations

These guys are the old school, nothing but hexes and detail. again a list would be to long, so visit their site. Iíve never played any of these, so this will be brief.
Their main products include the Squad battle series - covering large number of wars including the Vietnam war - a often overlooked war for gaming.
They also cover the large scale operations for most periods. here is their Kursk 43 game.


Take command/Scourge of war/Waterloo

Take Command: Second Manassas is the first game, set in the battle of 2nd Bull run 2nd Manassas. its a few years old now, but available on steam for a decent low price!


Scourge of War




This is the second in the series, set around the ACWís most famous battle. as well; as a graphics upgrade, it also features multiplayer! The base game covers Gettysburg, and has two expansions Ė Pipe Creek and Antietam, and there is a stand along release for Chancellorsville.


Waterloo
The same, but At Waterloo. I think you can figure it out.




Combat Mission
DO NOT BUY FROM BATTLEFRONT

This long running series of games is a WEGO/real time strategy series that mainly covers WWII, the older titles are showing their age!



But the CM2 engine ones look fairly good and even have a modern era game for those of us who want to play with M1 Abrams.



Why do I say not to buy these games? Well, Battlefront are major dicks when it comes to their pricing scheme - not only are they, like a lot of Grog gaming companies, unable to understand that lower prices mean more sales, they double down on this by charging for patches that are 90% bug fixes that should be free.
They then triple down on this by making the patches sequential, they have to be bought individually, and are needed for any new expansion packs for the game you already forked out far to much from.
I have to include them here, mainly as a warning.

Gravteam Tactics.


Gravteam Tactics is the eastern European version of battlefront - the games come with campaigns which involve moving units around in squares, then fighting out the results on the field.
While good looking, it should be noted the games are a bit rough around the edges, and have bugs and UI issues. If you can get over that then they are apparently great games.

The Operational Art of War 4

With scenarios covering from WWI to MOdern warfare, TOAoW is a great tool box for trying out conflicts - learn quicker with this great guide by Goon gradenko_2000

There are many more, but I think if youíve made it this far, you may well have the attention span to play one of these things!
Feel free to ask questions - there are no stupid questions when dealing with stupidly programmed games!

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Grey Hunter
Oct 17, 2007

Your friendly croctopus overlord LP'er

LPís.

Yes, my name is on here a lot, Iím prolific and kinda the reason Iím the one writing this OP.

Rule the Waves
Steam & iron 2 (Grey hunter)
Steam & iron (Grey hunter)

Aurora
The Coldest War (Bgreman's OG LP)
The War of the Worlds (Saros)
Terran Navy (Bremen)
White Ships Black Seas (Victorian Aurora!) (RubricMarine)

War in the Pacific
Guadalcanal (Ongoing and open to new players) (Saros)
Saros v Paradigm Grand campaign
War in the Pacific Day by Day, (Grey Hunter)
Alikchi v Windy: Japan and Allied, Observer
Pacify harder (Steinrokkan)

War in the West
WITW (Grey Hunter)

War in the East
SOVIET RESPONSE (Grey Hunter)
Try my German LP or uPen's Russian one

Decisive Campaigns: Barbarossa
Stalin 101 (Saros)
Euro Truck & Train 1941 (German participation LP) (Saros)
At least train Nazi likes me (Alikchi)

Advanced Tactics Gold
Democracy of Arsenals (Ongoing) (Tevery Best)
Game 1 observer thread (The insane backstabby one with two players as perspectives)
Game 1 Saros thread
Game 1 Gen Internet thread
Goon Game 2: (Saros)
Chaaarrrge! (Grey Hunter)

CMANO
Strike Command (Really loving good!) (Yooper)
Kuril Clash! (Yooper)

Combat Mission
Battered Bastards (CM:FB, Grey Hunter)
L'Abbaye Blanche (CM:BN: Fray)
Snake Creek (CM:BN: Fray)
Black Sea (Nevermore214)
CM:Black Sea (Generation Internet)
CM: BS (Grey Hunter)
CM FB (Dtkozl)
CM Normandy (Abongination)
CM Red thunder (Grey Hunter)

John Tillers X
Panzer Campaigns (gradenko_2000)
Civil war battles (gradenko_2000)
Napoleon (gradenko_2000)
First World War (Hypnobeard)
Hexes of our Fathers (Grey Hunter)

Strategic Command,: World at War
UK playthrough (Sniper4265)
Just, more Nazis Trin Tragula

Hannibal
Punic Tricks (Alikchi)

Panzer Corps
A "SS LP" (Jobbo_Fett)

World in Flames
Grand campaign (will_colorado)

Down with the Empire
Rebellion (Xenocides)

Great War: Spearhead (Tabletop)
Mud, Blood and Poppycock (Trin Tragula)
Over the Top (Grey Hunter)

Advanced Squad leader
Fire & Move (gradenko_2000)

AGEOD games
To end all wars (Grey Hunter)
Revolution under siege (A White Guy)
Thirty Years war (Grey Hunter)

Flashpoint Campaings: Red Storm
Canned Sunshine (Tythas)

Civil war Generals 2
Lucky units! (DarkParchment)

Vietnam '65
We were goons once... (Jaguars!)

Hearts of Iron
HoI4 (Das Panzer)

TOAW III
Goons in charge (Top Hats Monthly)

Graviteam tactics
Fascism remover (Phi230)

Commander: The Great War
Someone offed Franz Ferdinand (Xenocides)

Panzer General
Lightning war (Kangra)

Seekreig
Goon v Goon (Jimmy4400nav)

Ultimate general: Gettysburg
Billy goon! (Covski)

Bloody hell we are a prolific lot aren't we.

Pharnakes
Aug 14, 2009


Are we going to get a general purpose grog discord then?

algebra testes
Mar 5, 2011

Step 3: I re-examine my personal biases



Lipstick Apathy

Grog games own

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010






Lipstick Apathy

To start this thread strong with some good content, here's my tutorial for learning how to play War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition

https://drive.google.com/open?id=13...zncx6MJzXlJu8an

and here's my tutorial for learning how to play War in the East:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Y...124L24f4ZKVnjfq

gradenko_2000 fucked around with this message at Apr 15, 2019 around 10:31

Terrifying Effigies
Oct 22, 2008

Problems look mighty small from 150 miles up.


Great job on the new thread, just in time for RTW2 to grace us with its presence.

glynnenstein
Feb 18, 2014



Wait, is this new thread free?

Yooper
Apr 30, 2012



Grimey Drawer

glynnenstein posted:

Wait, is this new thread free?

No, the patch is . Until then you'll only shitpost about obsolete grog games.

FrozenVent
May 1, 2009

The Boeing 737-200QC is the undisputed workhorse of the skies.

glynnenstein posted:

Wait, is this new thread free?

If you had the gold edition of the first thread yeah otherwise send me a check for 29.95 and Iíll mail you a key for this one (when I get around to it)

Terrifying Effigies
Oct 22, 2008

Problems look mighty small from 150 miles up.


First page is free, each subsequent page you have to wait for a mod to enable your posting privileges.

Dark_Swordmaster
Oct 31, 2011


DO NOT BUY FROM BATTLEFRONT

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014



Clapping Larry

Golly Gee Willickers

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012


Great OP, weird genre.

The Ol Spicy Keychain
Jan 16, 2013

The Old Moon!








I do not play these kinds of games but I enjoy the word "Grognard".

Yooper
Apr 30, 2012



Grimey Drawer



Kim Jong Un is a frequent poster. He really enjoys CMANO, especially using the DELETE key and gods eye view. A true Grognard he is.

Perestroika
Apr 8, 2010



That list in the OP actually makes me wonder: Is there much of a market for non-historical grognard games? Sure, one of the draws is going all-in on the history and trying various alt-history scenarios. But at the same time, something like e.g. Combat Mission with (meticulously simulated) laser cannons sounds like it cold be pretty rad.

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014



Clapping Larry

I'm disappointed my thread title joke doesn't come through in the LP list

Pirate Radar
Apr 18, 2008

yeeeeee strigoi!!


Perestroika posted:

That list in the OP actually makes me wonder: Is there much of a market for non-historical grognard games? Sure, one of the draws is going all-in on the history and trying various alt-history scenarios. But at the same time, something like e.g. Combat Mission with (meticulously simulated) laser cannons sounds like it cold be pretty rad.

The guy who made Advanced Tactics and Decisive Campaigns is making a sort of sci-fi Advanced Tactics with 4x elements called Shadow Empires. So thereís that?

Yooper
Apr 30, 2012



Grimey Drawer

Perestroika posted:

That list in the OP actually makes me wonder: Is there much of a market for non-historical grognard games? Sure, one of the draws is going all-in on the history and trying various alt-history scenarios. But at the same time, something like e.g. Combat Mission with (meticulously simulated) laser cannons sounds like it cold be pretty rad.

I'd love to see some crazy poo poo like WH40K Combat Mission or Graviteam set in WW2 War of the Worlds HG Wells Style. Grogs seems to prefer Sealion or Hypothetical battles though.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010






Lipstick Apathy

Perestroika posted:

That list in the OP actually makes me wonder: Is there much of a market for non-historical grognard games? Sure, one of the draws is going all-in on the history and trying various alt-history scenarios. But at the same time, something like e.g. Combat Mission with (meticulously simulated) laser cannons sounds like it cold be pretty rad.

Ground Control was kind of like this. as was Empire of the Fading Suns. and Star General. and I think some of the Warhammer games are based on the Panzer Corps engine?

Gay Hitler
Dec 11, 2006

I'm gay as heil!

Ground floor on the only thread that matters and isn't a great hunter lp

Saros
Dec 29, 2009

Its almost like we're a Bureaucracy, in space!

I set sail for the Planet of Lab Requisitions!!



Perestroika posted:

That list in the OP actually makes me wonder: Is there much of a market for non-historical grognard games? Sure, one of the draws is going all-in on the history and trying various alt-history scenarios. But at the same time, something like e.g. Combat Mission with (meticulously simulated) laser cannons sounds like it cold be pretty rad.

Children of a Dead Earth does super-realistic spaceship battles and is cool and good if you can get your head around orbital mechanics.

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012


I'd like to file a complaint with Vietnam '65 and how it's less about the conflict and more about flying choppers around to deliver crates to soldiers. I want to enjoy it but it's a logicistics simulator first and foremost, not what I want.

Dark_Swordmaster
Oct 31, 2011


Counterpoint: I want a logistics sim. Is there the OpenTTD of military grog?

Grey Hunter
Oct 17, 2007

Your friendly croctopus overlord LP'er

StrixNebulosa posted:

I'd like to file a complaint with Vietnam '65 and how it's less about the conflict and more about flying choppers around to deliver crates to soldiers. I want to enjoy it but it's a logicistics simulator first and foremost, not what I want.

My dream is a FNG style, platoon level combat mission - where you have to get your platoon through a year of hell.

Dark_Swordmaster posted:

Counterpoint: I want a logistics sim. Is there the OpenTTD of military grog?

I was just wondering about an OpenTTD LP. Are you reading my mind/browsing history?

Zaodai
May 23, 2009

Death before dishonor?
Your terms are accepted.




Dark_Swordmaster posted:

Counterpoint: I want a logistics sim. Is there the OpenTTD of military grog?

If I recall, the OpenTTD thread title itself was a Holocaust joke for awhile, so maybe it was secretly a grog game all along.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010






Lipstick Apathy

Dark_Swordmaster posted:

Counterpoint: I want a logistics sim. Is there the OpenTTD of military grog?

Vietnam 65 and Afghanistan 11 are it

StrixNebulosa posted:

I'd like to file a complaint with Vietnam '65 and how it's less about the conflict and more about flying choppers around to deliver crates to soldiers. I want to enjoy it but it's a logicistics simulator first and foremost, not what I want.

http://www.johntillersoftware.com/S...es/Vietnam.html

Pirate Radar
Apr 18, 2008

yeeeeee strigoi!!


gradenko_2000 posted:

Ground Control was kind of like this. as was Empire of the Fading Suns. and Star General. and I think some of the Warhammer games are based on the Panzer Corps engine?

Right, Armageddon. I think about those every so often because Iím curious how theyíve implemented things like power-armored infantry and giant war mechs into that kind of game.

Phi230
Feb 2, 2016


10 days until we rule the waves, again

Squiggle
Sep 29, 2002

I don't think she likes the special sauce, Rick.

Soiled Meat

Pirate Radar posted:

Right, Armageddon. I think about those every so often because Iím curious how theyíve implemented things like power-armored infantry and giant war mechs into that kind of game.

I might be in a minority, I'm not sure, but...

It's actually pretty great! If you like Panzer Corps and aren't an idiot about SCI FI IN WAR GAMES, it goes on sale so often for so little that it's definitely worth trying.
Pretty much every unit fires from a distance, so it's like...Panzer Corps with more range. Also, obviously, dripping in Warhammer 40K excess.

Similarly, WH40K Sanctus Reach is like...Battle Academy for Warhammer. Or maybe Fields of Glory?

---

Grognard games are great! I bought CMANO in a Steam sale in 2017, and proceeded to absolutely gently caress my wallet making up for lost time, buying a few dozen games in the two years since (including almost the entire Combat Mission catalog, fight me fuckers) and losing my mind over them ever since.

Squiggle fucked around with this message at Apr 15, 2019 around 14:58

Dramicus
Mar 26, 2010


Grimey Drawer

Armageddon is great, and you really get attached to your units by the end. I still remember some of the crazy poo poo that was held back by my imperial guardsmen while the Space Marines and tanks took objectives.

OddObserver
Apr 3, 2009


Dark_Swordmaster posted:

Counterpoint: I want a logistics sim. Is there the OpenTTD of military grog?

Aren't these all logistics sims?

Popete
Oct 6, 2009

This will make sure you don't suggest to the KDz
That he should grow greens instead of crushing on MCs

Grimey Drawer

I like the new thread but it isn't the right camo pattern for fall of 1944 and thus I will no longer be posting here.

Mr Luxury Yacht
Apr 16, 2012




Squiggle posted:

(including almost the entire Combat Mission catalog, fight me fuckers)

The Combat Mission games are legitimately good.

It's just Battlefront that's hilariously bad and dumb. If they were released by a more reasonable Grog dev like Slytherin they'd 100% be a recommendation.

Like imagine if CM: Battle for Normandy was like, $30 with all the expansions $10-15 each (and no charges for bug fixes). We'd all buy it immediately.

On an unrelated note, reading the forums it sounds like a Steam release of Armored Brigade is more and more likely now, but they're waiting until after the campaign generator is out to do so.

Squiggle
Sep 29, 2002

I don't think she likes the special sauce, Rick.

Soiled Meat

I admit, it helps that I bought them all after Engine 4 was out. Something all of the complaining about them in the original thread didn't make clear: when you buy the game, you get them at the newest engine version.
I have yet to have to pay for the engine patches, so I'm sure my hatred will spike around then.

Here is a real complaint about them, though: Combat Mission runs like absolute dog poo poo. They're single-core and CPU locked like crazy, video card doesn't even seem to come into play.

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014



Clapping Larry

Popete posted:

I like the new thread but it isn't the right camo pattern for fall of 1944 and thus I will no longer be posting here.

You piece of poo poo you think I make these games for fun and enjoyment? I make them because my family needs food on the table and I have no time for your dicking around telling me, ME about how I should run my business. Do you have a degree in running a god drat successful business? I didn't think so! I've done the market research, I've verified the studies, and there's absolutely no benefit to moving to a platform designed to suck money away from me and MY company. If you don't agree with how this thread's going to be run, then good riddance, people of higher posting calibre will fill your role any day of the week.

Fray
Oct 22, 2010



College Slice

Mr Luxury Yacht posted:

The Combat Mission games are legitimately good.

It's just Battlefront that's hilariously bad and dumb. If they were released by a more reasonable Grog dev like Slytherin they'd 100% be a recommendation.

Like imagine if CM: Battle for Normandy was like, $30 with all the expansions $10-15 each (and no charges for bug fixes). We'd all buy it immediately.

On an unrelated note, reading the forums it sounds like a Steam release of Armored Brigade is more and more likely now, but they're waiting until after the campaign generator is out to do so.

It sucks cause they used to be great. No paid patches, and they put so much content in the old-engine games there was never a need for expansions. Barbarossa to Berlin covered the entire eastern front from start to finish, had a massive unit roster, and all the Axis minors with their own units and art assets.

Dark_Swordmaster
Oct 31, 2011


Oh man, do we have a collection of grog dev forum meltdowns???

AceRimmer
Mar 18, 2009

Stoke me a clipper, I'll be back for Christmas.

Fray posted:

It sucks cause they used to be great. No paid patches, and they put so much content in the old-engine games there was never a need for expansions. Barbarossa to Berlin covered the entire eastern front from start to finish, had a massive unit roster, and all the Axis minors with their own units and art assets.
Is it still playable on modern hardware and worth checking out?

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Squiggle
Sep 29, 2002

I don't think she likes the special sauce, Rick.

Soiled Meat

AceRimmer posted:

Is it still playable on modern hardware and worth checking out?

It is still playable, BUT:

1. No widescreen support. My video card stretched it out and it looked like poo poo, until I set the rendering to letterbox in the Nvidia settings instead of Stretch to Fit.
2. Controls are...clunky, but this might be a bigger problem going back to the CMx1 games from the newer games.

The first game, Beyond Overlord, is on GOG.com but is really lacking for the improvements that Barbarossa to Berlin (2) and Afrika Korps (3) added. It's the hardest one to play, for me, by a country mile.

B2B and AK are both still used to be sold in the Battlefront.com store, but I wound up just pirating them to spite Steve. gently caress you, Steve.

Squiggle fucked around with this message at Apr 15, 2019 around 17:53

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