Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
morallyobjected
Nov 3, 2012

CmdrKing posted:

That is 100% true.

This is why it's important to play with Same/Plus and no Open rule. Because some fucker will chain you with one of the worst cards in the game.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Vil
Sep 10, 2011

nunsexmonkrock posted:

Can you get Malboro cards from someone in Balmb Garden? I've always viewed Bad Breath as kind of a precursor to Doomtrain.

(I'm not sure all of that needs to be spoilered but figured better to be safe.)

Regular (level 1-7) cards are played by card level by NPCs. So if an NPC uses one level 4 card they can use any level 4 card and they're all equally likely. (Exception: that one level 5 card which no NPC will ever ever play. It's literally hard-coded out of their card selection algorithm.)

More generally, any regular cards are equally likely even across levels, though if I recall they'll never double up and use two of the same card. So if you want a specific card you should try to find someone who uses that level of card and as few other levels as possible. One of the better sources of level 5 cards (like Malboro, Behemoth, Elnoyle, Ruby Dragon) is that Trepe groupie in the cafeteria. He only uses level 2 and 5 cards, so about half his hand will be level 5 cards on average.

From various card players around Balamb and Balamb Garden you can win level 1 to 5 cards. There aren't any card players available yet who use level 6 and 7 cards, however you can get a few of them as a rare (1/16) result from using the Card command on a suitable enemy. For instance, Glacial Eyes (which you can meet near the mountains) can give the level 7 Jumbo Cactuar card if you get lucky when carding them.

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔

Vil posted:

There aren't any card players available yet who use level 6 and 7 cards, however you can get a few of them as a rare (1/16) result from using the Card command on a suitable enemy. For instance, Glacial Eyes (which you can meet near the mountains) can give the level 7 Jumbo Cactuar card if you get lucky when carding them.
Some designer was like "someone is gonna discover this by accident, farm them and feel like a genious for breaking the game so early" :allears:.

Like, the entire mechanic. It's completely pointless in the context of the game, as the card game exists, and it's trivial to get whatever the gently caress you want from it.

Yukari
Feb 17, 2011

"That's going in the cringe reel for sure."


morallyobjected posted:

This is why it's important to play with Same/Plus and no Open rule. Because some fucker will chain you with one of the worst cards in the game.

I had this happen to me. Second to last move, NPC plays a loving Bite Bug card, and comboes out the entire field.

Quantum Toast
Feb 13, 2012

I'm pretty sure I got to the final dungeon in this, and I don't think I ever even touched the cards.

I'm looking forward to seeing exactly how wrong I was playing this game.

Vil
Sep 10, 2011

Not too wrong, I would say. Cards serve two main purposes:

- Near the end of the game they can massively cut down on the grind for some of the rarer things for customizing GF abilities to your liking or permanently raising your stats. (Not, mind you, that you ever have anything remotely approaching a need to do either of these.) Then again, this is the end of the game and a semi-pointless grind, so there's no real problem in having shortcuts in the semi-pointless grind.

- Near the beginning of the game they allow you to get some good stuff earlier than you would otherwise have been able to. In the case of magic though, it's generally not more quickly. Slow as drawing in battle is, it still beats playing a card game, seeing if the card you want is even used, winning the game, taking that card, and refining the card into magic for some (usually 20) of a spell. So if it were something you could draw anyway, it wouldn't be that appealing of a tradeoff. The bigger appeal is doing it with magic that you can't draw (or otherwise obtain the items to refine) yet.

So in many ways the game balance is better if you don't play (well, if you don't refine) cards.

There are a few occasions involving rare cards (e.g. Quistis, Zell, Kiros) where the card game lets you get stuff that's both early and good and quick. Needless to say, this is one of FF8's many avenues for letting you break it.

Cool Ghost
Apr 13, 2012

MORE YOU SWEAT、
LESS YOU BLEED。
MORE YOU WEEP、
LESS GAME OVERS。
...OVER
Part Nine: I Think I Can Still Get Three More Out of the SeeD Exam


Yes, so, today's mystery: where is Seifer?


Sometimes in Final Fantasy VIII you can forget to set your junctions, but thankfully there's a gameplay feature that revolves around this. It's called "getting your rear end kicked and reloading your save".


During my grind with Seifer, I picked up a few new abilities, like IcyNips's Vit+20%. This raises Vitality...by 20 percent! Abilities like this are good supplements to junctions, especially when the numbers start getting bigger. Vitality's not a super-important stat, but there's only one ability, so it gets set for now.


Squall gets Str+20%. Strength is great. It's the bomb dot com, guys. Strength.


Selphie gets hosed, because there are no abilities for her, and I set Card instead of Magic like a jackass.



Water is between a second-tier and third-tier elemental spell for stat bonuses, which makes it good for this point in the game, but not game-breaking.


Oh, and even though she's not in the active party, you can still junction Quistis right now. You know, if you feel like wasting a GF or some other dumb poo poo.


Over here is a Blind draw point. Blind is part of a cheap strategy that I'll be making big use of in a little bit, because it's great for ruining something that's supposed to be difficult.


Then I make Selphie, who can't cast magic, draw it. :suicide:


That's how they usually work, chief.


I love to...go up.


Pictured: the special camera angle for using the elevator.

: Wow, this lift is pretty cool!
It's a platform with no safety rails, so if you think a deathtrap is cool, yeah I guess.

: Don't get too excited, or you'll fall!
: Like I'm really going to!

Meanwhile, at the top of the elevator...

W



Wedge: There has been a report of a monster-shaped shadow on top of the tower.


Time for comic relief with G-Soldier and The Elite.

Biggs: Be quiet! I'm busy!


Huh, looks like the Galbadians are doing repairs on the comm tower.

Biggs: And...and... Why do I have to make all the repairs!? AHHH!!!

Maybe they didn't pick the best men for the job.



Wedge, getting a firm "no response", peaces out.


Biggs doesn't notice.

:eng101: By the way, the names Biggs and Wedge are a recurring Star Wars reference in Final Fantasy games. They've shown up in most of the games since FFVI in some form or another.


The camera shifts over to this angle at this point.


Hey man, what's up?



At this point, an FMV is starting. Emulators make FMVs in this game look kind of fuzzy, and make the rest of the game a lot sharper. That's just free information.


While the camera is panning around at this point, you're still in control of Squall.


The whole place is shaking, and the game takes the time to introduce a new character, Toolbox.


Today on Final Fantasy VIII: Toolbox gives birth to Wrench!


Oh no!


RIP Wrench. :rip:



Somewhere else, these big engines start up. What are they for?

As the comm tower starts up, let's listen to this music, called Starting Up:




And what the hell are these for? How do communications even work?


Are the big engines just to turn on all these lights? Seems wasteful.



Some clamps on...something in the central shaft come off. What the hell is in this tower?


Note: Zell and Selphie look around like something's going on, but Squall doesn't do anything in this scene unless you make him run around like an idiot.


Here comes...something.


Note: I am no longer in control of Squall.


Also, the, uh, the thing comes out of the tower.


Who put that Greek poo poo there? :confused:


Finally, the secret of the comm tower is revealed!


It's, uh...



The world's most complicated satellite dish?


Who loving built this?


Why does it light up?


Come on guys, that's just wasteful.


I can tell you what they're not doing: using energy efficiently. :colbert:


I'm here to deliver the power bill, and you are not going to like it.

Biggs: H-HEY! What happened to all the soldiers below!?

What, all the guys I killed?

They're dead.



I think he's on a smoke break or something.


While we're here, what's in the big armpads?


Oh yeah, dude, no problem. See ya later.


Hey, Seifer.


Where did you go earlier? I didn't see any other doors on the ground floor.


Seifer's not crazy, he's just a jerk.

: Just shut UP!

Seifer doesn't like comic relief.


And suddenly, we're transported to the kaleidoscope dimension.


Nah, it's just a boss fight with Biggs. He's a slightly buffed Elite Soldier, with all the challenge that entails.


He has something new to draw, though.


Esuna is okay. It heals all status ailments, which is useful if you get one.


Biggs is not a hard enemy to fight, especially if you have a good junction on Strength.


Once you smack Biggs around enough, Wedge comes back.

Note: This shot gives you a pretty good view of the standard G-Soldier's weapon. It's a regular sword, but for some reason there's that rectangular bit on it that makes it look like a gunblade.

Wedge: Have you finished the repairs, sir?


I already told you, I'm here to deliver the drat electricity bill.

Biggs: WEDGE! Where were you!?


This line is very dramatic.


Wedge actually does the animation for taking damage here, which I think is a nice touch.


Since this fight is a joke, I decided to have Squall summon Mufasa to deal with these two.



That's a lot of fire!


What's up, hoss?


Gonna sail a big rock into space? Alright man, take care.



Yeah, so, Mufasa's attack is that he spikes a big chunk of flaming rock into the enemy. Summoning is kind of silly.



Everything Biggs says in battle is just so drat dramatic.


Fact: in this screen, under Biggs's right hand, you can see the barrel of his machine gun, which is built into his wrist armour. The Galbadian army is too cheap to spring for those fancy hand-held guns.


301 is a pretty big heal, I guess.


After a few more rounds of wailing on them, this happens.



And Biggs and Wedge are blown away.


It's a complete victory for SeeD! :toot:


:sigh: Nothing is ever easy.


This is the real boss of this area, Elvoret. It's worse than Biggs and Wedge, but it's still not necessarily hard.


What the hell is Siren? Ain't no spell I ever heard of.


This is the second way to get GFs. There are six GFs that you have to draw from various bosses in the game. Siren has some pretty useful abilities to learn, so be sure to draw from Elvoret!


Elvoret also has the spell Double, which allows you to cast two spells at once, or is sort of an okay junction? Double isn't worth worrying about, really.


Elvoret's repertoire includes Fire, Thunder, and a Big Bad Wolf impression.


But here's my strategy: I'm going to hit it with Squall's limit break.


Renzokuken (Japanese for "continual sword") is one of the best limit breaks in the game, and the easiest to set up.


When you use it, this gauge comes up. When the blue indicator gets to the box, you pull the trigger.


That makes the attack do more damage. Each hit is a tiny bit stronger than a regular attack anyway, but the trigger still gives you the 50% boost.


Depending on crisis level and enemy, you get between 4 and 8 hits. Because of how Squall works, it is very easy to make him hit crisis level 4 and get 7-8 hits every time.


Some enemies, like Elvoret, have a fixed Renzokuken sequence, though, and your crisis level doesn't affect how many hits you get. It does affect something else, but we're not there yet.


Also, like all limit breaks in this game, it is easily repeated. This is one of the more broken things in the game - if you keep a character in critical HP, you can just churn out limits like crazy and mince everything.


Enjoy this picture of sparkly Squall.


And that's how you beat Elvoret. :rip:


The only problem with keeping characters at critical HP is that their names turn yellow in the menu and look bad.


Elvoret drops some good poo poo: Elixirs in this game not only heal HP to full, but remove every abnormal status, so they're very nice.


G-Returner (in the small window) revives GFs, which is pretty situational. Weapons Monthly explains a game mechanic, sort of, but isn't necessary to use that mechanic, so it's not that important. Has nice pictures, though, and if you collect it, everyone can tell you're kind of weird.


14 AP is okay. I mean, it's not 15.


A new GF is good! Siren is good because she can learn to refine restorative magic from items, which is a) good for healing in battle and b) amazing as an HP junction.


Now, back to our plot.

: S'cuse me! I have new orders! All SeeD members and SeeD candidates are to withdraw at 1900 hours. Assemble at the shore!
: Withdraw!? There are still enemies around!

Well, you can stay and fight the enemies if you want, but I'm going to go get on the boat now. Enjoy swimming back to Garden.

: I know, but I'm just a messenger.

I think Selphie wants to stay and fight as much as Seifer does.

: An order to withdraw takes priority. I don't want to miss the vessel.
: What time d'you say?
: Like I said...! All SeeD members and SeeD candidates are to withdraw at 1900 hours. Assemble at the shore!
: 1900 hours... We only have 30 mins! You got 30 minutes to get down to the shore! Better run!


With that, Seifer takes the lift down, leaving us stranded on top of the tower.


Someone important.


I like this line. I think it's funny.

: Let's go.


Well, I'm not jumping off the tower, so yes, I want to go down.


At this point, we're on the clock to get back to the shore. Like everything else during the exam, you're being marked on this. The more time there is on the clock when you hit the shore, the higher your score.


Once we're gone, Biggs crawls over and does something with his tablet.

Biggs: Now GO!!! Go and DESTROY them!!!

Yeah, thanks for eating up my clock, you hammy jerk. :mad:


Now that everything's back online, the comm tower is all lit up. A terrible waste of electricity, but drat if it doesn't look pretty.


If you were wondering, yes, you can still run into random encounters in this bit. The clock also runs when the menu is open.


This is the other part of Renzokuken: finishers.


Based on his crisis level, Squall has a chance to do a finishing move after the gunblade strikes. This chance goes from about 23% at crisis level 1 to about 94% at crisis level 4 (the highest crisis level). There are four finishers in the game, and which ones you can get depend on Squall's equipped weapon. Right now, we only have Rough Divide, which is a normal hit with about twice the power of the regular Renzokuken strikes.

Note: Renzokuken finishers can be critical hits just like any physical attack, but it's based on Luck, not hitting the trigger.


Now, back to looking good in doorways/fleeing.


When we try to leave, there's a noise and things shake a bit.


What's that thing?


poo poo.


So here's the other boss of the SeeD exam, X-ATM092.


You're on the clock, so it's important to just get as much damage out as you can. Being a machine, the old bank machine here is weak to thunder, so Queso is your GF of the day.


Renzokuken with a good Strength junction is also handy.


Uh, if you don't get killed for it.


At least we still have the GF to bail us out.


While I'm summoning GFs, let me explain another mechanic. See that little pointer in the bottom right?


Once a GF learns the ability Boost, you can mash the square button during its animation to boost the damage its attack does. Boost is a straight multiplier to damage, but it's a double-edged sword: if you don't Boost, the multiplier is 1, but if you do Boost, it starts at .75. It can get up to 2.5, but most GFs don't have a long enough attack animation for it to get that high. The Boost can also be reset to .75 if you press square when the little red X is over the hand (pictured).


I didn't get a great boost here.


880 is a good single hit, but Queso can do a lot better if you don't gently caress up Boosting like an rear end in a top hat.


42 is poo poo.


Clash is one of the bank machine's special attacks.


It's a physical attack to the whole party. Wow.


Now that is some good damage.


Once you do enough damage (20% of its max HP), X-ATM092 collapses and Zell tells you to run.


Run away, and the battle ends.



Now, let's hop over to an alternate timeline where I set up my junctions properly. Squall is kitted out like this specifically to knock the stuffing out of X-ATM.



He also gets Siren, who is set to learn L Mag-RF.


And then, when I get into this fight again (it's not scripted, I just ran into it on two runs), Selphie throws Blind on him to boost his crisis level. Since he has 255% Hit, Blind is not a penalty to Squall, and just boosts his crisis level. If you're trying to cheese the game, make Squall Blind all the time. It's great fun.


This is Rough Divide on junctions. X-ATM has pretty high Vitality, but if you know how to set up junctions, you can still damage the hell out of it.


Forget that, though, we have a boat to get on.


See ya later, rear end in a top hat.


Haha, just joking. This is the complication with the escape sequence: X-ATM092 is chasing you the whole time.

: Forget it! Let's go!

While we're running, we also have some new music to listen to:



If X-ATM catches you, you're forced into another battle where you have to knock it down so you can escape. This not only takes time off the clock, but you're being marked on how many times you run from battle. You get 1 free escape (the mandatory one from X-ATM at the base of the tower) but from then on, it's points off, buddy.


In this sequence, X-ATM has some sweet moves, like this sick jump.


On this screen, you have to walk, or the machine's stomping will make you lose your balance and it'll catch you. If you're a first-time player, you're probably fighting here.


You can just run here, though.


X-ATM isn't even on this screen until you get almost to the end.


The bridge! We're halfway there!



At this point, X-ATM jumps over you to cut you off. You're supposed to double back to trick it into doing that again.



gently caress that, though.




Queso + Renzo = downed X-ATM092. But we're not running away this time.

Note: X-ATM092, like Elvoret, has a unique Renzokuken sequence; this sequence is 4 hits long.


See, when it's down, X-ATM092 is actually repairing itself. We're going to let it.


And then we're going to put it right the hell back down. With my junctions being what they are, Squall easily does enough damage in one Renzokuken to knock it into self-repair mode.




After a few rounds of this, X-ATM blows the gently caress up.


We did it! :toot:

This is supposed to be hard to do, and for new players or people who don't abuse cards and junctioning, it is. Between the clock and the boss's thousands of HP, you're not likely to win if you're playing by the rules.



You get some pretty big rewards if you can, though. In fact, defeating X-ATM092 is a part of a setup that lets you get ultimate weapons on disc one. I'm not going to farm it for that, though, because it's annoying. Str+40% is probably more versatile, anyway.


And now we can have it on two characters! :toot:



Now that X-ATM092 is just scraps, it's a leisurely walk back to the beach.


I really like this street in Dollet, with the stores.


Fun fact: there are random encounters during the escape if you kill X-ATM completely. They're standard Galbadian cannon fodder, though, so it's not a real problem.


Dollet is nice.





Hey Quistis. We killed a big robot. How's the boat been?


Anyway, let's go home.


Next time: we all get expelled because we disobeyed orders!

Cool Ghost fucked around with this message at 00:11 on Feb 6, 2016

Wild Knight
Mar 27, 2010

Foul villain! I do not flee. I will never turn my back on you and run away!

[he says, running away]
The FMV that ensues when you don't blow up X-ATM early is super rad.

(so's this LP and how you're doing it, I'm not judging

but cid is)

Gnoman
Feb 12, 2014

Come, all you fair and tender maids
Who flourish in your pri-ime
Beware, take care, keep your garden fair
Let Gnoman steal your thy-y-me
Le-et Gnoman steal your thyme




Losing the FMV is a pretty big loss, but 50 AP is an insane amount at this point in the game.

Digital Jello
Nov 2, 2012

Now I have a machine gun. Ho! Ho! Ho!
So is Siren a secret GF? I mean, is drawing her from Elvoret just a random thing or is this the only way to get her?

Cool Ghost
Apr 13, 2012

MORE YOU SWEAT、
LESS YOU BLEED。
MORE YOU WEEP、
LESS GAME OVERS。
...OVER
Siren's semi-secret, I guess. The draw isn't random, and there's one other chance to get her (way at the end of the game) but the game doesn't really tell you that you that enemies have GFs to draw, so you have to know that yourself.

Edit: Oh yeah, name 'er! You have until...the future. Probably Monday at noon.

Psion
Dec 13, 2002

eVeN I KnOw wHaT CoRnEr gAs iS
First-time players of this game are likely drawing every possible chance they get, so it's not really a secret. This one happens early enough that you at least learn "I should always try to draw from a boss" and that carries you the rest of the game.

yokaiy
Dec 25, 2012

What a handsome tree!

Cool Ghost posted:

Edit: Oh yeah, name 'er! You have until...the future. Probably Monday at noon.

Oh, cool, I was about to ask. Let's name her Zia.

So, I never owned this game, and only ever managed to play at a friends house, where we never even got to the exam because I think we'd keep starting a new game every time for some reason. Aside from that, I know basically nothing about this game aside from that you can break it with card shenanigans, so this is pretty neat. Also, you're doing a great job so far, so thanks for this. :unsmith:

curiousCat
Sep 23, 2012

Does this look like the face of mercy, kupo?
I don't blow up X-ATM because I like the FMV too much.

Zulily Zoetrope
Jun 1, 2011

Muldoon
QuesoCola, IcyNipz and Mufasa are the only mandatory GF's. Siren is about as missable as they get, and you should always be checking bosses' Draw lists.

Let's name her, uh, Godiva, Yeah, that'll do. Wait, no, SaltyNipz.

Cool Ghost posted:


Once you smack Biggs around enough, Wedge comes back.

Note: This shot gives you a pretty good view of the standard G-Soldier's weapon. It's a regular sword, but for some reason there's that rectangular bit on it that makes it look like a gunblade.

I think that's a magic storage unit. Standard soldiers don't have GFs, so they cast spells from their weapons. :eng101:

Digital Jello
Nov 2, 2012

Now I have a machine gun. Ho! Ho! Ho!
Ooh, I like your first one, Godiva; a neat reference since Siren's always half-naked anyways (although in FFXIV, she looks more like a harpy).

Karia
Mar 27, 2013

Self-portrait, Snake on a Plane
Oil painting, c. 1482-1484
Leonardo DaVinci (1452-1591)

I particularly love that FMV because it's the only acknowledgement that I can think of in any of the few FF games I've played that guns, particularly stationary guns, are more powerful than swords. For a change, the ultimate power is not provided by a single person on foot with a sword.

Keromaru5
Dec 28, 2012

Pictured: The Wolf Of Gubbio (probably)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund
Back in high school and college, my name for Siren was Minmay.

I was a huge dork.

Gnoman
Feb 12, 2014

Come, all you fair and tender maids
Who flourish in your pri-ime
Beware, take care, keep your garden fair
Let Gnoman steal your thy-y-me
Le-et Gnoman steal your thyme




Digital Jello posted:

Ooh, I like your first one, Godiva; a neat reference since Siren's always half-naked anyways (although in FFXIV, she looks more like a harpy).

I think Venus would be a better fit since she comes out of the water, but Godiva isn't bad at all.

Astrofig
Oct 26, 2009

Kheldarn posted:

Every game with a pugilist needs to have a ghost train to suplex. :colbert:

Counterpoint: Doomtrain

sleepy.eyes
Sep 14, 2007

Like a pig in a chute.
Godiva

Zulily Zoetrope
Jun 1, 2011

Muldoon
You'll get to do something better than suplex trains, don't you worry.

Aithon
Jan 3, 2014

Every puzzle has an answer.

Psion posted:

First-time players of this game are likely drawing every possible chance they get, so it's not really a secret. This one happens early enough that you at least learn "I should always try to draw from a boss" and that carries you the rest of the game.

This is true. Also, did you notice that spells that we don't have yet, like Esuna and Double in this update, are marked as "????"? It's like that for all magic, but not for GFs. So if you see an unknown name on an enemy's draw list, it's always a GF.

The only way these GFs are 'secret' is if you never open a draw list on the boss, and it's unlikely, because it's pretty much common sense that bosses would have rare stuff. I don't think they ever spell it out, though.

LEGO Genetics
Oct 8, 2013

She growls as she storms the stadium
A villain mean and rough
And the cops all shake and quiver and quake
as she stabs them with her cuffs
Elvoret, you were a pain in the rear end to fight the first time I was young and stupid enough to not junction properly and you're still a pain in the rear end this this day.

and your loving palette swap too!

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.

Grimey Drawer
One thing that irks me about this game is the inane naming system. Okay, there's a character limit, but that's not excuse for stuff like L-magic-WTF - what's that even supposed to mean? And what for the love of all that's unholy is a renzekuken? And how does it taste?

Voting for Godiva, by the way.

Zulily Zoetrope
Jun 1, 2011

Muldoon
Life-magic-refinement

It Refines Life/Recovery magic from items :)

Gnoman
Feb 12, 2014

Come, all you fair and tender maids
Who flourish in your pri-ime
Beware, take care, keep your garden fair
Let Gnoman steal your thy-y-me
Le-et Gnoman steal your thyme




anilEhilated posted:

One thing that irks me about this game is the inane naming system. Okay, there's a character limit, but that's not excuse for stuff like L-magic-WTF - what's that even supposed to mean? And what for the love of all that's unholy is a renzekuken? And how does it taste?

Voting for Godiva, by the way.

"Renzokuken" is one of the only untranslated Japanese bits in the game, and translates to something like "Continual Sword." Given the otherwise superb translation, I don't know why this was left in.


As for the other, I don't see how "L-Mag-RF" meaning "Life Magic Refining Ability" is anything but blindingly obvious, especially when -RF always means "Refining Ability" in this game, and all other Magic Refining Abilities are X-Mag-RF.

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.

Grimey Drawer

Gnoman posted:

As for the other, I don't see how "L-Mag-RF" meaning "Life Magic Refining Ability" is anything but blindingly obvious
Quoting this for posterity. Now, I understand that there is such thing as manuals and explanations and trial and error and the game even provides one, even if it's a pain in the rear end to navigate using the controls provided, but still. Here, take a look: Refine-L. Same character count, you can at least tell it's a crafting skill now and trial/error out the rest. The abiity names in this game are complete and utter gobbledygook.

Gnoman
Feb 12, 2014

Come, all you fair and tender maids
Who flourish in your pri-ime
Beware, take care, keep your garden fair
Let Gnoman steal your thy-y-me
Le-et Gnoman steal your thyme




anilEhilated posted:

Quoting this for posterity. Now, I understand that there is such thing as manuals and explanations and trial and error and the game even provides one, even if it's a pain in the rear end to navigate using the controls provided, but still. Here, take a look: Refine-L. Same character count, you can at least tell it's a crafting skill now and trial/error out the rest. The abiity names in this game are complete and utter gobbledygook.

It takes all of half a second to learn that -RF means Refine Ability. It's not the game designers' responsibility if a player is too terminally lazy to learn the most basic of things, especially when they give you a tooltip explaining it further.

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔
L-Mag-RF could as well mean Lightning Magic Recovery Force.

The entire Dollet sequence is probably the best part of the game, depending on how you rank the final dungeon (or the card game huhuhu). It has so many little things in it, all the different outcomes and possibilities, and most of them actually matter. Especially the robot chase is really, really well done and cool. Even the invisible (and often quite dumb) requirements to not lose/gain points I'm fine with, the reward for getting a high rank is there, but ultimately inconsequential. It's sadly almost immediately inconsequential because of the way the game works, but this is a huge reason why after Dollet, everything takes a nosedive.

Zulily Zoetrope
Jun 1, 2011

Muldoon
It could mean a lot of things. That's why there's a tool-tip right there literally every time you select it!

And if that's not good enough for you, you can go to the information menu and find out what every ability a GF can learn does, and every material a given Refine ability takes and what spells/items it gives you in return.

FF8's gameplay is kind of hard to penetrate, but it's not for a lack of communication on the game's part.

Foxhound
Sep 5, 2007
Out of curiousity, why do you play this on an emulator instead of the PC version? Did they change something in the PC version or do you just need savestates to make the LP?

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.
For the Biggs fight, Wedge will show up either after enough time has passed, or you've knocked Biggs down a few pegs.

Biggs gets restored to full life either way.

Elvoret also has a distinct pattern. It goes [Attack or Magic] twice, then Storm Breath, then repeat.

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔

Kajeesus posted:

It could mean a lot of things. That's why there's a tool-tip right there literally every time you select it!

And if that's not good enough for you, you can go to the information menu and find out what every ability a GF can learn does, and every material a given Refine ability takes and what spells/items it gives you in return.

FF8's gameplay is kind of hard to penetrate, but it's not for a lack of communication on the game's part.
I don't think the argument is that it's literally impossible to find out what the ability does, but that L-Mag-RF is a stupid as hell abbreviation and well in line with calling the spider bot XF-88G or whatever instead of DOOM SPIDER or anything, you know, fun.

Weavered
Jun 23, 2013

Kajeesus posted:

It could mean a lot of things. That's why there's a tool-tip right there literally every time you select it!

And if that's not good enough for you, you can go to the information menu and find out what every ability a GF can learn does, and every material a given Refine ability takes and what spells/items it gives you in return.

FF8's gameplay is kind of hard to penetrate, but it's not for a lack of communication on the game's part.

If we're bitching about stuff like this now God help us when we get to discussions about the plot.

Also voting for Saltynips.

Bregor
May 31, 2013

People are idiots, Leslie.
Based on Siren's previous US appearance in FFVI, her now almost-nude look here, and the character limit, I'll go with UNCENSORD

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.

Grimey Drawer

Simply Simon posted:

I don't think the argument is that it's literally impossible to find out what the ability does, but that L-Mag-RF is a stupid as hell abbreviation and well in line with calling the spider bot XF-88G or whatever instead of DOOM SPIDER or anything, you know, fun.
Yup. I'm not saying it's impossible to use - hell, there's the whole trial and error thing - but that it's a really bad part of the "otherwise suberb" translation. Hell, I can even come up with a reason for the bankbot - All Terrain Mobile or something, but this is IMO inexcusable.
Now, the whole communication on the game's part issue is rather double-edged: it does give you all the infor you need, but it gives it to you at once and using an incredibly annoying encyclopedia system. You figure it out as you're playing, but don't tell me that's a good way to do it.

Soricidus
Oct 21, 2010
freedom-hating statist shill

anilEhilated posted:

Yup. I'm not saying it's impossible to use - hell, there's the whole trial and error thing - but that it's a really bad part of the "otherwise suberb" translation. Hell, I can even come up with a reason for the bankbot - All Terrain Mobile or something, but this is IMO inexcusable.
Honestly it's better than the common alternative of just chopping random vowels out of words to try to cram long phrases into a character limit. The Japanese version also uses some abbreviations in ability names (all the junction skills have names like "魔力J"), so I imagine the translators just went with that concept without wasting too much time thinking how they might be able to do better.

(As for bankbot, you can't blame the translators for that, they didn't touch its name.)

Kacie
Nov 11, 2010

Imagining a Brave New World
Ramrod XTreme
Godiva, please.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔

anilEhilated posted:

Yup. I'm not saying it's impossible to use - hell, there's the whole trial and error thing - but that it's a really bad part of the "otherwise suberb" translation. Hell, I can even come up with a reason for the bankbot - All Terrain Mobile or something, but this is IMO inexcusable.
Now, the whole communication on the game's part issue is rather double-edged: it does give you all the infor you need, but it gives it to you at once and using an incredibly annoying encyclopedia system. You figure it out as you're playing, but don't tell me that's a good way to do it.
If you figure out a little more than like a quarter of this game too quickly, it becomes very boring very soon unless you're seriously into shattering any kind of challenge (that's fine, I know some people who are and played through the game with one of them. He still hates it tho). Maybe it was intentional?!

  • Locked thread