Auspol January 2015: bad neoliberal hangover thread

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Auspol January 2015: bad neoliberal hangover thread

The Before Times: Mar 8, 2014; Once upon a time, I would have thrown you halfway to the moon for a crack like that.

CrazyTolradi posted:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-01-05/mildura-employer-allegedly-paid-backpackers-60-cents-an-hour/6001218

Hey Anidav, I bet he's looking for workers.

EDIT: In all seriousness, I do see people throw the old "Why don't you just go pick fruit, it's good money!" phrase around to people who are badly in need of work. Yeah, $8-10 a day is really worth it.

if they REALLY wanted to work instead of sit around on the dole, they'd take anything!

# ? Jan 5, 2015 14:53

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Jun 26, 2024 23:00

Anidav: Feb 25, 2010; ahhh fuck its the rats again

Fruit picking is a scam.

# ? Jan 5, 2015 15:00

CrazyTolradi: Oct 2, 2011; It feels so good to be so bad.....at posting.

Anidav posted:

~~Fruit picking is~~ Job trials are a scam.

I'm so glad you've had this revelation.

# ? Jan 5, 2015 15:15

thatbastardken: Apr 23, 2010; A contract signed by a minor is not binding!

Anidav posted:

~~Fruit picking~~ capitalism is a scam.

# ? Jan 5, 2015 15:23

ewe2: Jul 1, 2009

Lid posted:

That's part of the point - this is done with noble intentions, like I said people in the forums here were against 60 Minutes publishing the story, but the noble intentions are based on faulty logic that looks at incidents that are part of a system but to prevent harm work to minimise the damage of the current system as opposed to looking to fix the system itself.

To be clear, I wasn't suggesting Kennett was covering anything up, you have the mindset accurately. I'm a fan of a radio show from 2007 after which one of the presenters committed suicide and every year on the anniversary of his death we PUBLICISE it to gather donations for beyondblue and other organizations to help people with depression. What beyondblue is doing here is the opposite of what we want. They're happy to take the money though.

# ? Jan 5, 2015 15:28

Lid: Feb 18, 2005; And the mercy seat is awaiting,
And I think my head is burning,
And in a way I'm yearning,
To be done with all this measuring of proof.
An eye for an eye
And a tooth for a tooth,
And anyway I told the truth,
And I'm not afraid to die.

quote:

A Liberal MP calling for the goods and services tax (GST) base to be broadened has argued the impacts on poor people could be addressed through a targeted compensation package.

Dan Tehan, the member for Wannon in Victoria, said tax reform was crucial �to maintain our standard of living� and the currently exempt products and services � such as education, health and fresh food � should be subject to the 10% GST.

�The broader the better,� he told Guardian Australia on Monday.

Tehan�s intervention, launched with an opinion piece in the Australian Financial Review, followed the government�s decision to consider the GST as part of the taxation white paper process.

The new assistant treasurer, Josh Frydenberg, wrote an article in the Australian newspaper on Monday saying the tax white paper would also consider lowering the �unfair� $1,000 threshold for GST on purchases from overseas.

Tony Abbott said in 2013 that �the GST won�t change � full stop, end of story� but the government is leaving the door open to take tax reform to the next election.

Labor and welfare groups argued broadening the GST base would be regressive as it would have a greater impact on the low-income earners as a share of their household budgets.

The chief executive of the Australian Council of Social Service, Cassandra Goldie, said her organisation was �very opposed to removing the exemption on fresh food�.

�We know that low and modest-income families spend more on food as a proportion of income � and there�s no question that regardless of compensation this will make fresh food less affordable and accessible for people,� she said.

Goldie said she was disappointed the new year was beginning with �a very narrow debate� about tax reform focused on the GST, when there were other areas for potential changes including superannuation concessions.

The acting opposition leader, Tony Burke, said the growing calls from within the government represented a concerted campaign as Abbott prepared the ground to break his GST promise.

�In every model that I�ve seen, you increase the GST, you increase the number of products it applies to, you hit poorer people hardest � you hit middle- and lower-income families the hardest,� Burke said.

�It doesn�t surprise me that they [the government] are now opening up a full-frontal assault on wanting to hurt families with the GST � It is a complete betrayal of what they flagged during the election campaign.�

But Tehan said any changes to the GST would need to be taken to a fresh election to secure voter support, like John Howard did in 1998 before introducing the 10% consumption tax.

Howard agreed to exempt fresh food from the GST in order to secure support from the Democrats to pass the laws through the Senate. The Howard government�s tax package also included income tax cuts and increases to family benefits and pensions.

GST revenue is distributed to the states and territories but the West Australian Liberal government has intensified its calls for changes to the way the funds are carved up. State and territory finances have come under pressure from revenue write-downs and the federal government�s decision to cut budgeted funding for hospitals and schools.

Tehan said the GST, an indirect tax, remained �unfinished business� for the Coalition and the base should be broadened because it covered only 47% of consumption.

The tax system should be as effective and efficient as possible, he said, and direct taxes such as income and company taxes limited economic growth.

�Tax reform is necessary,� Tehan said. �We�ve had the political courage, unlike the Labor party, to put it on the agenda through our tax white paper process and my view is that we need to have a discussion with the Australian people about how we are going to maintain our current standard of living. Tax reform is a key component of that.�

Asked about criticism that his suggested GST changes would be regressive, Tehan said the opposition�s argument was �intellectually lazy�.

�This [impact] can be dealt with through compensation payments. Also, I�d make the point: if you have taxes in place which shackle our economy, over time they are regressive in nature because they limit employment and your ability to grow,� he said.

�You would have a compensation package which would be applied directly to those that it would impact on. The OECD have made this point clear: you address welfare through direct welfare payments; you don�t address welfare through exemptions to everyone in your tax system.�

The Liberal senator Cory Bernardi told Fairfax Media he was �disappointed that the first skirmishes in taxation in 2015� were about lifting or broadening the GST.

He said a rise in the GST was permanent whereas compensatory cuts to direct taxation were �never permanent�.

The finance minister and acting treasurer, Mathias Cormann, said the government had �no plans to change either the base or the rate of the GST�.

�Our position on that has not changed since before the last election,� Cormann said. �Any suggestions to improve our tax system will be considered through the tax white paper review process this year.�

The chief executive of National Seniors Australia, Michael O�Neill, said the review should look at the GST but it must also consider the impacts on people on fixed incomes, including pensioners and self-funded retirees.

Why yes, please pass our GST changes because we will... subsidise you? What?

Also smoothly trying to connect this with Howard when you make mention Howard passed it with such things as family benefits that your government repealed in the budget.

# ? Jan 5, 2015 15:47

ewe2: Jul 1, 2009

Lid posted:

Why yes, please pass our GST changes because we will... subsidise you? What?

Also smoothly trying to connect this with Howard when you make mention Howard passed it with such things as family benefits that your government repealed in the budget.

Also ROFL at the intellectually lazy charge from a guy who can't think through a consumption tax. If you're going to dick around with fake compensation how about just cut to the chase and change the income tax bracket.

# ? Jan 5, 2015 16:00

Implants: Feb 14, 2007

Qld election incoming.

# ? Jan 5, 2015 16:26

CrazyTolradi: Oct 2, 2011; It feels so good to be so bad.....at posting.

Newman is smart to call an election as soon as he possibly can, otherwise Tones is going to sink the ship further. At least now the polls are kind of mixed.

# ? Jan 5, 2015 16:36

dr_rat: Jun 4, 2001

With the $1000 Overseas GST exemption it seems the biggest issue is at a certain point its just not cost effective to collect. This article: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-12-12/mike-baird-online-gst-claim-uncertain/5134960 quotes a 2011 mentions a 2011 goverment review into it finding anything under about $500 just wouldn't be cost effective to collect. Article also notes that as the Australian mark up on many products people buy from overseas is generally well over GST costs adding GST isn't going to be that much of an incentive to buy local anyway.

Actually wouldn't object to much if they did drop the GST exemption on overseas stuff to somewhere around the cost effective rate of collection, but all that other stuff Tehan mentions is, yeah just regressive poo poo. So many better places we could be collecting tax from.

# ? Jan 5, 2015 16:47

Kegslayer: Jul 23, 2007

CrazyTolradi posted:

Newman is smart to call an election as soon as he possibly can, otherwise Tones is going to sink the ship further. At least now the polls are kind of mixed.

I can't wait for Newman's second term :allears:

# ? Jan 5, 2015 17:54

gay picnic defence: Oct 5, 2009; I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

Weren't there recent polls in QLD showing it was nearly neck and neck, and that Newman would likely lose his seat?

# ? Jan 5, 2015 22:04

NoNotTheMindProbe: Aug 9, 2010; pony porn was here

Australians are the dumbest fuckers

# ? Jan 5, 2015 22:07

Amoeba102: Jan 22, 2010

Pokie losses per person in Aus would be 5th by itself.

# ? Jan 5, 2015 22:25

T-1000: Mar 28, 2010

Amoeba102 posted:

Pokie losses per person in Aus would be 5th by itself.

We're #1 in non-casino gaming (i.e. pubs and RSLs) and betting. I find that really sad. Gambling has worked itself into the fabric of everyday life.

Chances are everyone knows someone who can't watch a sporting event without putting money on it. Or can't go to the pub without putting money on the virtual greyhounds (without a doubt the dumbest freaking gambling thing ever).

# ? Jan 5, 2015 22:37

teacup: Dec 20, 2006; = M I L K E R S =

I have adopted two ex racing greyhounds and the racing industry makes me so angry

# ? Jan 5, 2015 22:40

You Am I: May 20, 2001; Me @ your poasting

CrazyTolradi posted:

Newman is smart to call an election as soon as he possibly can, otherwise Tones is going to sink the ship further. At least now the polls are kind of mixed.

Wont there be a bit of a backlash, as most people will be in holiday mode during the weeks up to the election? I hope UberGruppenFurhrer Newman is kicked out

NoNotTheMindProbe posted:

Australians are the dumbest fuckers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ogj5ztTE0zw

# ? Jan 5, 2015 22:45

SMILLENNIALSMILLEN: Jun 26, 2009

Do we really throw away more at the loving pokies than the drat swiss do on all forms of gambling?

quote:

The acting opposition leader, Tony Burke, said the growing calls from within the government represented a concerted campaign as Abbott prepared the ground to break his GST promise.

That was a cool thing to say more people should say stuff like that.

# ? Jan 5, 2015 23:11

Neif: Jul 26, 2012

NoNotTheMindProbe posted:

Australians are the dumbest fuckers

Not a big surprise really when you go to the local RSL and more then half the venue is dedicated floorspace for colourful chirping money machines full of pensioners dutifully feeding money into the machines, I mean if only someone could teach the aging population how to play WoW and satisfy the part of the brain that likes 'winning' shiny stuff.

I lived in WA for a while in 06 - 08. I remember that there were no pokies in the pubs etc and it was great. Is this still a thing?

Neif fucked around with this message at 23:30 on Jan 5, 2015

# ? Jan 5, 2015 23:19

norp: Jan 20, 2004; TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP

let's invade New Zealand, they have oil

Yep, no pokies anywhere. Also supposedly the ones we have in the casino have to be "games of skill" rather than fruit machines.

# ? Jan 5, 2015 23:31

V for Vegas: Sep 1, 2004; THUNDERDOME LOSER

gay picnic defence posted:

Weren't there recent polls in QLD showing it was nearly neck and neck, and that Newman would likely lose his seat?

# ? Jan 5, 2015 23:44

Negative Entropy: Nov 30, 2009

Lid posted:

Why yes, please pass our GST changes because we will... subsidise you? What?

Also smoothly trying to connect this with Howard when you make mention Howard passed it with such things as family benefits that your government repealed in the budget.

How about a Luxury Tax?

# ? Jan 5, 2015 23:48

Tirade: Jul 17, 2001; Cybertron must act decisively to prevent and oppose acts of genocide and violations of international robot rights law and to bring perpetrators before the Decepticon Justice Division; Pillbug

NoNotTheMindProbe posted:

Australians are the dumbest fuckers

[scoff.gif]

# ? Jan 5, 2015 23:52

CrazyTolradi: Oct 2, 2011; It feels so good to be so bad.....at posting.

gay picnic defence posted:

Weren't there recent polls in QLD showing it was nearly neck and neck, and that Newman would likely lose his seat?

Pretty much, Andrew Green is calling that LNP will likely hold government still which is an easy call to make. They'll just likely have a new leader, probably Seeney which won't help them much since he's somehow got less charisma than Newman.

# ? Jan 6, 2015 00:01

Anidav: Feb 25, 2010; ahhh fuck its the rats again

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/queensland-election-to-be-held-on-january-31-20150105-12iduw.html

Brisbane Times confirming Jan 31 with a "Government source"

# ? Jan 6, 2015 00:03

Lizard Combatant: Sep 29, 2010; I have some notes.

If you QLD goons aren't sharing the gently caress out of that Newman-watch page (or better yet knocking up a handy infographic in the next day or two, detailing his utter bastadry), I'll be very disappointed.

# ? Jan 6, 2015 00:04

Bald Stalin: Jul 11, 2004; Our posts

norp posted:

Yep, no pokies anywhere. Also supposedly the ones we have in the casino have to be "games of skill" rather than fruit machines.

Does 'game of skill' mean the electronic video poker machines where you pick which cards to hold and then run the RNG again? Otherwise I have no idea what those are even after going to Las Vegas too many times.

# ? Jan 6, 2015 00:06

Anidav: Feb 25, 2010; ahhh fuck its the rats again

Most pokie machines I run into are Asian themed. "Happy lucky red dragon princess with treasure" or some poo poo in the name. Where do they come from? Are they made in the USA or Korea?

# ? Jan 6, 2015 00:09

Paracausal: Sep 5, 2011; Oh yeah, baby. Frame your suffering as a masterpiece. Only one problem - no one's watching. It's boring, buddy, boring as death.

Allegedly a story doing the rounds was that the Qld LNP were going to dump Newman on Monday. He got in first in calling the election, not a happy party.

# ? Jan 6, 2015 00:14

Anidav: Feb 25, 2010; ahhh fuck its the rats again

Yeah I heard that story too. So he's more moving against his own party.

Which means leadership speculation :pcgaming:

# ? Jan 6, 2015 00:16

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

Anidav posted:

Most pokie machines I run into are Asian themed. "Happy lucky red dragon princess with treasure" or some poo poo in the name. Where do they come from? Are they made in the USA or Korea?

The kind you see in Australia are generally home grown. We even export them to Vegas.

# ? Jan 6, 2015 00:21

Anidav: Feb 25, 2010; ahhh fuck its the rats again

So the themes are tourist traps to attract whales from Asia? Interesting. I thought the Asian themed ones would be from Japan or Korea. Not home made.

# ? Jan 6, 2015 00:25

SMILLENNIALSMILLEN: Jun 26, 2009

TG-Chrono posted:

Allegedly a story doing the rounds was that the Qld LNP were going to dump Newman on Monday. He got in first in calling the election, not a happy party.

Laughing my bum off at that I hope it's true.

# ? Jan 6, 2015 00:30

Cartoon: Jun 20, 2008; poop

NTATA¹ the Minister for Indigenous Youth Suicide says although this death was probably unintentional they all go to the bigger picture total.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-01-06/funding-cuts-a-possible-factor-in-sniffing-death-warren-snowdon/6001806

quote:

Funding cuts a possible factor in sniffing death, Warren Snowdon says

Updated 54 minutes agoTue 6 Jan 2015, 9:16am

Cuts to youth services could have been a factor behind the death of a 12-year-old boy who inhaled deodorant, a federal Labor politician says. The boy died on Saturday after sniffing at least two cans of deodorant in a practice known as chroming. The member for Lingiari, Warren Snowdon, said there were a range of factors behind the death, including a lack of government services. "I'm not going to put myself in a position where I'd be arguing there's a direct link, but you'd have to be blind Freddy not to realise that there needs to be youth diversion programs, prevention programs and treatment programs for volatile substance abuse in the Northern Territory," he said. "There's no point looking at one arm - that is enforcement - without making sure there is proper diversion programs and proper intervention and treatment programs of volatile substances."

Mr Snowdon said several youth diversion programs had been cut by the Giles Government in recent years. "We know that they cut funding in 2013 from an after-hours youth patrol service being run by [the Central Australian Aboriginal] Congress in Alice Springs," he said. "In February of 2014 we know know they cut funding to the youth street outreach services. It means that we don't have a coordinated effort to actually get young kids off the streets and make sure they're being properly assessed."

Mr Snowdon said the Northern Territory Government needed to take more responsibility to ensure youth diversion programs were in place. The Government needs to take initatives to make sure that diversion programs are active and are viable. "The saddest thing you could ever see is young people of this age harming themselves," he said. "Clearly this stuff is preventable and requires action by government as well as the wider community. "The Government needs to take initatives to make sure that diversion programs are active and are viable." Mr Snowdon said there were a complex range of issues behind the young boy's death. "You can't prevent young kids doing stupid things at times, but we've got to do all we can to prevent that happening. That requires a concerted effort by the whole community, by schools, by police, by community service agencies, by government in particular, to make sure that the programs that are required to intervene and provide diversion to these kids are in place. It appears they are currently not."

The Central Australia Youth Link Up Service said there had been an increase in solvent sniffing, which coincided with the cancellation of several government-funded programs. A spokesperson for the Northern Territory Government said its funding for the Youth Street Outreach Service was redirected last year because other providers were offering similar services. The spokesperson said Alice Springs had a youth night patrol to transport children and adults from town 'hot spots' to their homes or other places of safety. The spokesperson described the child's death as tragic.

It takes either a courageous or a very cynical person to actually stand up and outright point fingers at the cuts to services as the probable cause of this death. If sincere and ongoing then my opinion of Snowden just jumped several meters.

Fruity Gordo posted:

Calling shenanigans on this, I have some seriously materialistic, obnoxious family members and they've always been grateful to get handmade stuff and vintage costume jewellery. Maybe if the handmade stuff is poo poo or if you've got them some lovely mass-produced imitation crystal vase from Vinnies it's a downer, but I'd like to see the survey that found that people are insulted by getting homemade poo poo. Everyone loves homemade rum balls.

A source would be interesting but I wouldn't dismiss the overall thrust for this small side issue. Just look at the retail trade figures for the December quarter. We are clearly committed to a consumption binge at Christmas and the rampant waste is appalling. The saving to the power consumption would probably worth the Greens getting behind a national solar powered xmas lights campaign but the headline zingers may not be worth it.

The G loving S loving T :bang:

I tald ya! I fucken warned ya! But would ya listen? Nawh.

It's a pretty good indication that someone is stealing your underpants when Kate Carnel² gets behind it.

http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2014/s4157997.htm

quote:

Business and ACOSS call for detailed debate on tax changes, not just GST

Naomi Woodley reported this story on Tuesday, January 6, 2015 06:11:00

ASHLEY HALL: In the wake of new calls to broaden the base of the Goods and Services Tax, both business and social service groups say there must be a genuine, and comprehensive look at Australia's whole tax regime. But that's largely where their agreement ends. From Canberra, Naomi Woodley reports.

NAOMI WOODLEY: The Victorian backbencher Dan Tehan has reignited the GST debate, saying it should be broadened to include things like fresh food, health and education, as the first step in making the tax system more efficient. He says a case for changes to the GST should be put to voters at the next election, but the CEO of the Australian Council of Social Service (ACOSS), Cassandra Goldie, says that shouldn't be the priority.

CASSANDRA GOLDIE: We're looking for the government to support a wide-ranging tax reform debate, that's what we need in this country, and not a very narrow debate kicked off in the new year, once again just focusing on the GST.

NAOMI WOODLEY: Doctor Goldie says they do support the Government's current white paper, or comprehensive review of Australia's tax system, but there are other changes to be considered before the GST comes into play.

CASSANDRA GOLDIE: There is now growing recognition that reform is needed - superannuation, negative gearing, capital gains arrangements - all of which we believe in some ways are not ensuring that people who can contribute more to the revenue base are doing so.

NAOMI WOODLEY: The National Farmers Federation too has voiced its concerns that a GST on fresh food would discourage people from eating healthily, and force up costs for producers. That's a view echoed by Mr Tehan's Victorian Liberal colleague, Sharman Stone, who says farmers already face some of the world's highest costs. The Federal Opposition, the Greens and groups like ACOSS have long argued that any increase or broadening of the GST would disproportionately hurt low income earners. The Government MP Dan Tehan says they could be compensated, but Cassandra Goldie from ACOSS says that won't necessarily help.

CASSANDRA GOLDIE: From past experience, we know that compensation packages are very fragile, often they are undervalued over time.

NAOMI WOODLEY: The Chamber of Commerce and Industry says there's no doubt compensation would be required, but its CEO Kate Carnell says that's not a reason to shy away from a debate about the GST.

KATE CARNELL: I think we have to accept that a good solid debate is about a taxation system that's fair, that's equitable for all people in Australia but also a tax mix that allows us to manage an ageing population, significant increases are going to be needed in tax revenue.

NAOMI WOODLEY: Kate Carnell is non-committal on whether Mr Tehan's proposal to broaden the base in return for scrapping other inefficient taxes is the right move. But says, with Australia's corporate and income tax rate comparatively high, it's a debate that has to be had.

KATE CARNELL: It's simply not an efficient system. It needs to be looked at seriously and what we can't afford to have is a scenario where every time anyone mentions any changes in the tax system, it's 'shock horror we can't possibly have this debate'. We must have this debate if we are to pay for the costs we know are coming down the track for Australia.

NAOMI WOODLEY: The Government is indicating a renewed willingness to look at the GST exemption for goods under a thousand dollars bought online from overseas retailers. Kate Carnell says it must be treated separately to the wider GST debate, and she's hopeful of a change will be announced this year.

KATE CARNELL: This is about fairness and equity, it's about jobs in Australia.

ASHLEY HALL: The CEO of the Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry, Kate Carnell, ending Naomi Woodley's report.

The GST on foreign imports below $1K is loving ridiculous. Like really, really dumb. The $500 point is where it starts to actually cost money. Even at $1K it is appallingly inefficient revenue collection. And LOL at the 'cutting other inefficient taxes' that's what the existing one was supposed to do. Can you say 'Stamp Duty' anyone? loving Muppets. Backbench Tory Muppets and of course:

Muppet Government. Election NOW.

1/ Noted Torture Apologist Tony Abbott, sometimes caring for those darkies but more regularily suggessting that torture is something you sometimes just have to do. Kind of like a GST.
2/ KCNHI - Kate Carnel Noted Hospital Imploder :rip:

Katie Bender

# ? Jan 6, 2015 00:35

Anidav: Feb 25, 2010; ahhh fuck its the rats again

Will there be a QLD election thread?

# ? Jan 6, 2015 00:39

Sludge Tank: Jul 31, 2007; by Azathoth

quote:

I have adopted two ex racing greyhounds and the racing industry makes me so angry

Ask me about living with my stepdad who was until a couple of years ago a vet in the (mostly horse) racing industry for over 20 years, and an equine veterinarian outside of that dealing with "retired" racehorses. Some of the poo poo he's told me will melt your loving face.

# ? Jan 6, 2015 00:40

Anidav: Feb 25, 2010; ahhh fuck its the rats again

Tell us more about mutated and drugged up horses full of disfigurement.

# ? Jan 6, 2015 00:43

Negative Entropy: Nov 30, 2009

norp posted:

Yep, no pokies anywhere. Also supposedly the ones we have in the casino have to be "games of skill" rather than fruit machines.

Sounds great

And Brisbane is going to bulldoze an acre or more of city to let a new casino in.
:suicide:

# ? Jan 6, 2015 00:52

Anidav: Feb 25, 2010; ahhh fuck its the rats again

But we get a beach out of it!

# ? Jan 6, 2015 00:56

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Jun 26, 2024 23:00

Those On My Left: Jun 25, 2010

Sludge Tank posted:

Ask me about living with my stepdad who was until a couple of years ago a vet in the (mostly horse) racing industry for over 20 years, and an equine veterinarian outside of that dealing with "retired" racehorses. Some of the poo poo he's told me will melt your loving face.

Come on, tell us.

# ? Jan 6, 2015 01:00

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Auspol January 2015: bad neoliberal hangover thread

«‹›113 »