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Lumberjack Bonanza posted:But he didn't want to make Vegeta feel bad! When Abriged reaches that bit, im expecting Veggies responce is to howl "gently caress!" in a similar way to the 100x Earth's Gravity reveal.  quote:Tits, and the Wiki's of them. ... The gently caress?  I'd ask whats wrong with people but Oh BOY Wookiepedia is a special case!
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Sep 17, 2014 11:28
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| # ? May 30, 2024 20:12 |
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Lumberjack Bonanza posted:If that's remarkable to you, for the love of god, don't seek out the Star Wars one. The Transformers one is fun, but that's about it.
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Sep 17, 2014 16:34
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Parrotine posted:Not only that, but he's got battle wisdom out the wazoo with no qualms about fighting dirty. It was the best thing ever because Vegeta ended up being stronger than Goku for a bit. And he didn't even need to "transform" into SSJ3. And to be a bit of a nerd, SSJ3 Goku against Vegeta wouldn't have been easy either. I think people tend to forget that SSJ3 burns out energy quicker than any other state and can only be used for a minute before all the energy is burn't out so..
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Sep 17, 2014 22:23
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Within the manga itself, was SSJ3 ever useful? Even with Gotenks, he ended up failing to defeat Buu.
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Sep 17, 2014 22:52
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ChronoReverse posted:Within the manga itself, was SSJ3 ever useful? Even with Gotenks, he ended up failing to defeat Buu. No. Or the anime, really.
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Sep 17, 2014 22:55
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Goku used it for quick boosts against Kid Buu, like a fighting version of the Mushroom from Mario Kart.
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Sep 17, 2014 22:59
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SSJ3 Gotenks would've beaten Buu if it weren't for the worst drawback of playing around because of super arrogance. Otherwise the only useful application was getting enough of a power boost to open dimensional holes by yelling a lot.
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Sep 17, 2014 23:01
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Guyver posted:Think that's bizarre? Wow. The internet really does make you stupid.
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Sep 18, 2014 01:39
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Tae posted:SSJ3 Gotenks would've beaten Buu if it weren't for the worst drawback of playing around because of super arrogance. Otherwise the only useful application was getting enough of a power boost to open dimensional holes by yelling a lot. I don't think he would have won. Buu and him were too close in power, I don't think he would have been able to kill him before the transformation wore off.
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Sep 18, 2014 06:08
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They were pretty much even in the anime from what I recall. I've been told that, in the manga, it was much more clearly in Gotenks' favor.
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Sep 18, 2014 06:55
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Gotenks does a LOT of messing around, I think at his first successful transformation he flew around the world multiple times before fighting Buu.
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Sep 18, 2014 07:11
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Tae posted:Gotenks does a LOT of messing around, I think at his first successful transformation he flew around the world multiple times before fighting Buu. That was the second time. The first time he fused as normal Trunks and Goten, immediately declared he could fight Buu, and then in the manga he's back with comical injuries saying 'He beat the crap out of me.' literally two panels later. (The anime, of course, actually showed this fight). The second time, they fuse as Super Saiyans, do the world flying thing, find Buu, call him out, immediately defuse, and then get the gently caress out of dodge just before Buu comes out of his house to see who's insulting him.
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Sep 18, 2014 10:58
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It's arguable as to whether Gotenks could have beaten Buu. It's kind of like SSJ3 Goku/Buu; it's possible, but Buu wasn't fighting all-out in either case (in Gotenks' case, because he sensed Gohan and wanted to figure out a way to power up to beat him; in Goku's case, because it takes a LOT to get Majin Buu to actually get mad). I think Toriyama saw SSJ3 as somethign fun to draw and play with for fans, but not where he wanted the characters to go, so it was extremely downplayed and useless. I think he always saw Gohan's transformation as just a ridiculously high powered version of regular SSJ, until he decided to do a new one because people liked seeing it as a new level of SSJ. This is kind of proven by his recent stuff, where SSGod makes you tinier, and SSJ Vegeta outdoes SSJ3 Goku against Beerus when mad enough.
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Sep 18, 2014 14:56
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God doesn't make you tinier, it makes you leaner, like your frame was sculpted out of granite. Basically if Goku was eating nothing but trim meat and vegetable meals instead of his usual anything-that-has-a-face-and-wants-to-run-away-from-me diet. It's weird; at first I really didn't care for the god transformation, but now I actually kind of dig it. SSJ3 seems clunky and overblown in comparison.
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Sep 18, 2014 15:52
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Parrotine posted:SSJ3 seems clunky and overblown in comparison. That's literally the point.
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Sep 18, 2014 16:20
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It would be funnier if the powered up SSJ forms turned out to be really tiny(comparatively) incremental power increases instead of "doubling" strength or whatever. But the difference between that and the previous form was just the tipping point.
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Sep 18, 2014 16:32
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Darko posted:I think Toriyama saw SSJ3 as somethign fun to draw and play with for fans, but not where he wanted the characters to go, so it was extremely downplayed and useless. I think he always saw Gohan's transformation as just a ridiculously high powered version of regular SSJ, until he decided to do a new one because people liked seeing it as a new level of SSJ. This is kind of proven by his recent stuff, where SSGod makes you tinier, and SSJ Vegeta outdoes SSJ3 Goku against Beerus when mad enough. Didn't he recently state this in an interview? Where he said after BoG Goku has decided that SSJ2 and 3 are a waste of energy and he should focus on SSJ.
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Sep 18, 2014 18:52
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Horrible Taste posted:Didn't he recently state this in an interview? Where he said after BoG Goku has decided that SSJ2 and 3 are a waste of energy and he should focus on SSJ. Yeah I think he said that in the interview about Goku's mom.
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Sep 18, 2014 18:55
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All the transformations after Goku becoming a Super Saiyan in his fight against Frieza were pretty stupid and contrived imo, just ways to arbitrarily jump peoples power levels mid season to drag out the fight against the big bad. The original one (by the standards of shounen storytelling) was actually pretty cool and had this huge mythic significance, it was basically the culmination of the entire story up until that point and had Goku simultaneously avenge and redeem his people by becoming their legendary hero. Everything afterwards with the different forms and variances and whatever just stamped any mystique or significance it had by boiling the whole thing down to a series of numbers and temporary oneupmanships.
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Sep 18, 2014 19:43
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I don't know, I like the feeling you get reading about SSJ2 and all the sort of 'prototype' transformations that lead up to Gohan "getting it right" to kill Cell. On the other hand, I don't really remember how I felt about it watching the show all those years ago, and I guess I just feel it reads well on a wiki page or something. Maybe I thought it was stupid when I was a teenager, but I saw it in bits and pieces and didn't really get the full effect. SSJ3 just looks awful, but I feel like the Buu saga if nothing else was a serious attempt to just screw with people's expectations. And then I guess GT is about failing every expectation?
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Sep 18, 2014 20:54
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I don't know of a single kid who didn't think the ever escalating SSj forms weren't the coolest thing in the history of ever. You guys are just getting old. 
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Sep 18, 2014 21:00
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Esroc posted:I don't know of a single kid who didn't think the ever escalating SSj forms weren't the coolest thing in the history of ever. I didn't but that is because I liked Piccolo more.
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Sep 18, 2014 21:01
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Spiderdrake posted:I don't know, I like the feeling you get reading about SSJ2 and all the sort of 'prototype' transformations that lead up to Gohan "getting it right" to kill Cell. On the other hand, I don't really remember how I felt about it watching the show all those years ago, and I guess I just feel it reads well on a wiki page or something. Maybe I thought it was stupid when I was a teenager, but I saw it in bits and pieces and didn't really get the full effect. It's a decent motivation for the plot at that point in the story, both sides are sort of going after their own way to be stronger than the other side, both knowing they aren't ready yet for a direct confrontation with the other side until Vegeta attacks. Not sure about Z but Kai actually lines up the moment Cell absorbs 18 with the moment Gohan becomes a Super Saiyan which worked pretty well. Of course that pretty much started the longest period in the show where Gohan was cool so 12 year old me liked it quite a bit.
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Sep 18, 2014 21:06
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Spiderdrake posted:I don't know, I like the feeling you get reading about SSJ2 and all the sort of 'prototype' transformations that lead up to Gohan "getting it right" to kill Cell. On the other hand, I don't really remember how I felt about it watching the show all those years ago, and I guess I just feel it reads well on a wiki page or something. Maybe I thought it was stupid when I was a teenager, but I saw it in bits and pieces and didn't really get the full effect. Yeah, I think Gohan truly ascending beyond Super Saiyan was really cool the first time around. Then, you know, Buu happened and it's one of the few things in media that I think was posthumously hosed up by what followed. I don't even think that about Star Wars. Gohan was special, he did something no one before him could even imagine. Then it was just another thing you could do if you hit a certain threshold, and Goku was even stronger, and then the kids could use a technique and be even stronger than that, and then Gohan was back on top for a second but it was total bullshit and gently caress. It's still a really cool character arc, but how Gohan immediately goes to poo poo afterward is just bad.
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Sep 18, 2014 21:50
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A Steampunk Gent posted:Everything afterwards with the different forms and variances and whatever just stamped any mystique or significance it had by boiling the whole thing down to a series of numbers and temporary oneupmanships. I actually like the idea of the mythical becoming the understood, but it'd been nicer if the idea of the alternative forms were less progression and more specialization. Like the ultra form (Was it ultra? USSJ?) of trunks. SSJ2 being "Burning hotter but also burning out faster" would have been cool but SSJ3 just feels... silly. Goku should have just found a way to make the Kaio-what work in SSJ forms without it causing your heart to explode. That'd been a fine alternative and a nice continuation of the first half of DBZ's "Big Deal" form of his. And on that note, it'd also been nice if the Kaioken got more love, does it get more attention elsewhere in the show? I vagely remember it appearing in the filler arc involving the realm of the dead tournament or did i dream that up?
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Sep 18, 2014 21:54
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I've always thought the multiple Super Saiyan transformations were silly, even as a kid. They seem like a really unimaginative way to continue the series after Goku becomes a Super Saiyan the first time. "Hmmmm, Goku's already reached the pinnacle of power in the universe. What next?" "Uhhh....Super Saiyan 2?"
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Sep 18, 2014 21:54
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ImpAtom posted:I didn't but that is because I liked Piccolo more. Hah, look at this loser. Liking the rival to Goku who ISN'T Vegeta. ...I like Piccolo a lot not too.
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Sep 18, 2014 21:56
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Thyrork posted:I actually like the idea of the mythical becoming the understood, but it'd been nicer if the idea of the alternative forms were less progression and more specialization. Like the ultra form (Was it ultra? USSJ?) of trunks. SSJ2 being "Burning hotter but also burning out faster" would have been cool but SSJ3 just feels... silly. Yeah, that happened. Pikkon caught him in some super Hypercane and he went Super Kaioken to break out of the zillion MPH winds and punch him in the face. Lasted like a single second.
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Sep 18, 2014 21:56
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Am I the only one who thought that Piccolo and Tien should have learned the Kaioken from King Kai? It'd certainly make them more relevant in fights after that, even if just in short bursts. Did they actually learn ANYTHING under King Kai?
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Sep 18, 2014 22:22
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I always thought Goku should have taught instant transmission to Gohan during the 10 days before the Cell Games but he wasn't very good with the whole planning things out... thing.
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Sep 18, 2014 22:26
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Brony Hunter posted:Am I the only one who thought that Piccolo and Tien should have learned the Kaioken from King Kai? It'd certainly make them more relevant in fights after that, even if just in short bursts. Did they actually learn ANYTHING under King Kai? Piccolo mentioned how they could all precisely control their powerlevels in quick bursts in the Android saga, so I guess everyone is using the basic idea all the time and we've moved on. I'm fine with Kaioken and such being Goku's thing, Dbz character's powers can feel a bit samey at times, with everyone picking up everyone else's moves and any difference between them is good. If you think about all the stuff Cell has from his progenitors, the only unique things he got from one individual was from Piccolo, since he was the only namekian sampled, and arguably Chaotzu's power to blow himself up. I liked when Goku kind of sucked at flying for a while, Piccolo's weird namekian biology, all the crazy poo poo Gotenks did...
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Sep 18, 2014 23:25
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carry on then posted:I always thought Goku should have taught instant transmission to Gohan during the 10 days before the Cell Games but he wasn't very good with the whole planning things out... thing. Didn't it take Goku six months to learn how to use it himself? Might have been a waste of time to teach Gohan when that time could be better spent pumping him up. I've always had the sense that Instant Transmission was a really difficult skill to learn in general, not just some easy thing that could be taught in a week or to just anybody. Goku was already a Super Saiyan when he learned how to use it.
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Sep 18, 2014 23:34
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ImpAtom posted:I didn't but that is because I liked Piccolo more. Whatup Piccolo buddy? Piccolo vs 17 was the last good fight in the series. 
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Sep 19, 2014 00:54
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Thyrork posted:Goku should have just found a way to make the Kaio-what work in SSJ forms without it causing your heart to explode. That'd been a fine alternative and a nice continuation of the first half of DBZ's "Big Deal" form of his. This is basically SS3.
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Sep 19, 2014 01:38
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MeccaPrime posted:Whatup Piccolo buddy? I want to disagree, but you're probably right. As cool as SSJ2 Gohan was, the fight with Cell wasn't as interesting. Completely unrelated, where did your avatar come from? It's almost hypnotic.
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Sep 19, 2014 01:40
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Some Numbers posted:Completely unrelated, where did your avatar come from? It's almost hypnotic. Grickle - Joy to the Weird
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Sep 19, 2014 01:56
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Some Numbers posted:I want to disagree, but you're probably right. As cool as SSJ2 Gohan was, the fight with Cell wasn't as interesting. I rewatched Goku vs Cell and Gohan vs Cell recently and Gohan/Cell is much less of an actual fight. The majority of it is spent on Cell trying to goad Gohan into using his full power, SSJ2 Gohan beating the piss out of Cell, and then the Kamehameha battle. There's way less to it than I thought. Goku vs Cell though is loving fantastic. It's the real meat of the Cell Games.
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Sep 19, 2014 05:21
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Yeah, it's kind of weird. Goku goes Super Saiyan and spends about 10 episodes fighting Freeza. Gohan goes SSJ2 and there's barely any actual fight. Same thing happened in the Bojack movie. 90% of the movie is Gohan not being SSJ2, 2% is him effortlessly and instantaneously demolishing the bad guys and the other 8% is wrap up. SSJ2 is totally awesome, but it doesn't lead to interesting fights.
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Sep 19, 2014 05:38
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Makes sense. Super Saiyan 2 was the top poo poo at that point. No SSJ3, no Buu, just Gohan -finally- releasing his full potential. Cell putting up too much of an equal fight would have partly defeated the purpose, and Bojack and company were copying that structure.
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Sep 19, 2014 05:41
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Goku vs Perfect Cell is one of the best fights in the series.
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Sep 19, 2014 05:46
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