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triplexpac posted:Oh yeah it's definitely a great point, I just found it hilarious that he created the definition of "cool heel" in the nWo. I literally can't think of a better example of the thing he says not to do. "nWo looks like a biker gang. Hey let's do a show at Sturgis surrounded by motorcycles! That'll get the heels over! UHHH I mean the babyfaces will get over!"
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Apr 2, 2012 17:33
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triplexpac posted:Oh yeah it's definitely a great point, I just found it hilarious that he created the definition of "cool heel" in the nWo. I literally can't think of a better example of the thing he says not to do. Stone Cold Steve Austin
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Apr 2, 2012 17:35
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Moose Bigelow posted:Stone Cold Steve Austin I'd say the nWo was better (worse?) at being cool heels. Their gimmick basically consisted of coming out in shades, cutting promos that made babyfaces out to be losers, then beat them handily. At least Austin, while being very entertaining as a heel, didn't completely neuter his babyface opponents.
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Apr 2, 2012 17:40
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Steve Austin also lost once in a while.
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Apr 2, 2012 17:41
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Moose Bigelow posted:Stone Cold Steve Austin There's a pretty big difference, I think, between a wrestler deliberately trying to be cool or modern or fashionable and a wrestler who is just himself and fans appreciate so much that they make him cool. The nWo wore black, gang bandannas, worked mob mentality and beat down the supposed good guys forever. During the East Coast vs. West Coast hip hop rivalry, that was a good image to portray (even if it was mostly white guys). Austin was a redneck wearing the most generic tights who simply drank beer and played the rebel. The only thing that could be perceived cool from him was a Rage Against the Machine sounding theme. Austin wasn't pandering.
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Apr 2, 2012 17:44
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Lone Rogue posted:The nWo wore black, gang bandannas, worked mob mentality and beat down the supposed good guys forever. It's kind of funny to me now that the nWo was styled to be "cool" back then. I look back on videos of them now and they look like clueless old guys who are trying too hard to be "hip" by wearing bandanas, glasses, and motorcycle jackets. Their style in fashion has definitely aged terribly.
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Apr 2, 2012 17:56
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crankdatbatman posted:It's kind of funny to me now that the nWo was styled to be "cool" back then. I look back on videos of them now and they look like clueless old guys who are trying too hard to be "hip" by wearing bandanas, glasses, and motorcycle jackets. Their style in fashion has definitely aged terribly. Scary truth is it worked. The New World Order was cool. So cool in fact that WCW was trying to split them into their own brand. They were being invited to MTV all of the time and at one point you couldn't goto a wrestling show no matter what the company was without 50 per cent of the t-shirts worn being nWo shirts. But like I said, they tried to be cool. Austin was just Austin.
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Apr 2, 2012 18:02
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Lone Rogue posted:Scary truth is it worked. The New World Order was cool. So cool in fact that WCW was trying to split them into their own brand. They were being invited to MTV all of the time and at one point you couldn't goto a wrestling show no matter what the company was without 50 per cent of the t-shirts worn being nWo shirts. I said it somewhere else in PSP, but back in the day you could hardly go out without seeing at least one person wearing an nWo shirt. With that person being neither the "idiot hambeast" stereotype people like to paint of wrestling fans, nor a hipster who wore a wrestling shirt in an ironic fashion. Bischoff really struck gold with that storyline.
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Apr 2, 2012 18:59
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Grandpa Pap posted:I said it somewhere else in PSP, but back in the day you could hardly go out without seeing at least one person wearing an nWo shirt. With that person being neither the "idiot hambeast" stereotype people like to paint of wrestling fans, nor a hipster who wore a wrestling shirt in an ironic fashion. Bischoff really struck gold with that storyline. It was done so loving well too. There were issues I had with the nWo from 1996 to 1998 (Savage deciding to join nWo for no reason after making himself a free agent and coming out with Sting, Hogan saying no hanger ons like Traylor or Beefcake then bringing in both guys, nWo half assing the idea of creating their own brand, Hennig joining nWo and turning on the Horsemen, etc.) but when you look at the big picture it was an unbelievable storyline that did so much right and was rewarded for it.
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Apr 2, 2012 19:03
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Lone Rogue posted:It was done so loving well too. There were issues I had with the nWo from 1996 to 1998 (Savage deciding to join nWo for no reason after making himself a free agent and coming out with Sting, Hogan saying no hanger ons like Traylor or Beefcake then bringing in both guys, nWo half assing the idea of creating their own brand, Hennig joining nWo and turning on the Horsemen, etc.) but when you look at the big picture it was an unbelievable storyline that did so much right and was rewarded for it. Oh, no doubt. Bischoff definitely learned that although it's tough to get to the top, it's even tougher to stay there over the long run. Especially when staying on top requires you to freshen up an angle that has (up to that point) made you CRAZY amounts of money.
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Apr 2, 2012 19:15
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In 2 weeks some friends and I decided to get together and watch some old wrasslin' for a few hours. We thought it would be fun to draw two years at random and pick out some good stuff to view from those years, great matches, comedic promos, anything that's entertaining. Hopefully this is a success and it becomes a monthly/bi-monthly thing we can do. Anyways this is where I need help, the two years that were randomly selected are 1992 and 2000. I'm trying to stay away from the more popular stuff and go for lesser known gems most of us haven't seen at all or in awhile, obviously the '92 Rumble is a no brainer but I'm pretty sure between all of us we've seen that multiple times. Same goes for the tag team TLC and ladder matches in 2000. Originally I was going to stay away from the big 4 WWF/E PPVs all together but I've reconsidered. So please help me out with some nominations! I'd like to keep it to WWF/WCW/ECW but if there is something from either of those years that absolutely must be seen from another promotion please list it and I'll check it out. So far I came up with the following to consider... WrestleWar '92 War Games: Barry Windham & Dustin Rhodes & Nikita Koloff & Ricky Steamboat & Sting vs. Arn Anderson & Bobby Eaton & Larry Zbyszko & Rick Rude & Steve Austin Judgement Day 2000 Iron man match: The Rock vs. Triple H - I'm a little worried we may get burnt out by this being that it's an hour. WrestleMania VIII - Bret Hart vs. Roddy Piper SummerSlam '92: Bret Hart vs. British Bulldog 1992 Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels ladder match Backlash 2000: Scotty Too Hotty vs. Dean Malenko SummerSlam 2000: Chris Jericho vs. Chris Benoit 2/3 Falls
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Apr 2, 2012 19:56
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I think Supertape 92 has some cool stuff on it, including a Savage/Bret vs. HBK/Flair tag-match (someone correct me if I'm wrong).
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Apr 2, 2012 20:16
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I seem to recall the match where Michaels won the IC title from Bulldog being pretty solid.
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Apr 2, 2012 20:27
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HHH/Cactus Jack from RR 2000. Maybe watch HHH/Rock from Backlash instead of the Iron Man match as both are very good. HHH/Jericho Last Man Standing from Fully Loaded. I promise I did not set out to recommend only HHH matches!
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Apr 2, 2012 20:29
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nasboat posted:I think Supertape 92 has some cool stuff on it, including a Savage/Bret vs. HBK/Flair tag-match (someone correct me if I'm wrong). Grudge, Gripes, & Grunts (WF123) according to the Coliseum catalog, sounds awesome though definitely gonna put that in there. Perry Normal posted:I seem to recall the match where Michaels won the IC title from Bulldog being pretty solid. I forgot about this one and haven't watched that in a long time, it's from SNME. I'll prolly do this over Bret/Bulldog as we've all seen it and it doesn't go as long. oldpainless posted:HHH/Cactus Jack from RR 2000. To be fair 2000 was HHH's coming out party. The Backlash 2000 match sounds good for time constraints, actually that whole show is awesome. Pretty much what WrestleMania 2000 should have been.
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Apr 2, 2012 20:40
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Sting vs Cactus Jack Beach Blast
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Apr 2, 2012 20:45
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Beach Blast 92 has some more cool stuff. Rick Rude vs Ricky Steamboat 30 minute iron man match. And Steiners vs Miracle Violence Connection. GAB92 has Sting vs Vader.
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Apr 2, 2012 20:50
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bobkatt013 posted:Sting vs Cactus Jack Beach Blast yeah this should have been my first recommendation  So great.
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Apr 2, 2012 21:00
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If you want something "different" but still good enough try Starrcade 91 or Starrcade 92. The Lethal Lottery/Battlebowl concept is something that was so original and different for its time people don't touch it for how hard it is to properly execute. WCW just went right into the deep end with it and it produces a wrestling show like no other. It's also possibly the closest America has gotten to accepting Japanese wrestlers as headliners (that and the WCW/New Japan Supershow that followed.) Starrcade 92 is particularly exceptional due to having the BattleBowl, an NWA World Title match, a WCW World Title match and the finals to the King of Cable tournament.
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Apr 2, 2012 21:08
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Wrestlemania 29 is in Jersey next year and I live an hour and a half away. Needless to say I pretty much am hell bent on going. Anybody here been to a Mania? If so, how much did you drop on a ticket? Is it even worth going if you're going to be sitting way up in the nosebleeds? I generally know that getting tickets isn't hard as this year's show had a ton of tickets still avaliable the night before the show...but basically I'd rather not drop 500 bucks on a seat...
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Apr 2, 2012 22:29
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It's really all about getting a ticket at a price point you want as early as possible. Check out the ticket tiering so you avoid sitting on the floor but in the way back - those are priced at a premium but actually usually lovely seats because you end up sitting behind people and having to look over/past them to see up at the ring. Generally I think getting a mid-priced ticket is the best course of action as you end up somewhat centrally located and looking down at the ring but not way up in the nosebleeds. The real key is buying tickets as soon as they go on sale, though, so you end up near the front of your price section and not in the back of it.
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Apr 2, 2012 23:20
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Bearnt! posted:Judgement Day 2000 Iron man match: The Rock vs. Triple H - I'm a little worried we may get burnt out by this being that it's an hour. it's a bit slow in the first 15 minutes, but it picks up steam from then on. Plus, it also features some really clever booking and falls in there.
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Apr 2, 2012 23:21
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Why did Mick Foley "retire" in 2000? It's obvious his heart wasn't in it, and it's not like he had very many vacations around that time.
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Apr 2, 2012 23:24
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rotinaj posted:Why did Mick Foley "retire" in 2000? It's obvious his heart wasn't in it, and it's not like he had very many vacations around that time. His body was poo poo
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Apr 2, 2012 23:25
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rotinaj posted:Why did Mick Foley "retire" in 2000? It's obvious his heart wasn't in it, and it's not like he had very many vacations around that time. Great way to milk pay days from Vince.
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Apr 2, 2012 23:30
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rotinaj posted:Why did Mick Foley "retire" in 2000? It's obvious his heart wasn't in it, and it's not like he had very many vacations around that time. Pretty much what bobkatt013 said. And wrestling a match every once in a while since then has done his body no more favors, since it looks like the guy can barely move anymore.
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Apr 3, 2012 00:01
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Oh yeah - so what do people like about Sheamus? He's got a great look and a distinctive voice and doesn't poo poo the bed on the mic but 2/3 things he's memorable for have been pretty brutal. That awful tables match he won the belt in for no reason, the post-KOTR one-night gimmick change where he had a wand and a ridiculous helmet, and then he had like a great three-match series against John Morrison. Other than that he's been basically a whitebread hoss that says "fella" and... I dunno... is generically face-oriented? I'm supposed to care about him why?
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Apr 3, 2012 00:32
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Role Play McMurphy posted:Oh yeah - so what do people like about Sheamus? He's got a great look and a distinctive voice and doesn't poo poo the bed on the mic but 2/3 things he's memorable for have been pretty brutal. That awful tables match he won the belt in for no reason, the post-KOTR one-night gimmick change where he had a wand and a ridiculous helmet, and then he had like a great three-match series against John Morrison. He's pale and Irish, is my best guess. I mean I like him better than Dolph Ziggler, but he's just another generic wrestler in a WWE full of them.
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Apr 3, 2012 00:36
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Triple H was on fire in 2000. Really, honestly if he didn't have that year, we might not hate him as much as we do. He sat the bar so freakin' high that year. You could go into every PPV in 2000 and expect at least a **** match out of HHH.
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Apr 3, 2012 00:38
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Role Play McMurphy posted:Oh yeah - so what do people like about Sheamus? He's got a great look and a distinctive voice and doesn't poo poo the bed on the mic but 2/3 things he's memorable for have been pretty brutal. That awful tables match he won the belt in for no reason, the post-KOTR one-night gimmick change where he had a wand and a ridiculous helmet, and then he had like a great three-match series against John Morrison. Honestly Sheamus is pretty boring to me. He really doesn't captivate me in ways that other wrestlers do. And that is not to the fault of him or his gimmick. He just doesn't have that "it" factor that makes me want to watch him for extended periods of time.
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Apr 3, 2012 01:46
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89 posted:Triple H was on fire in 2000. Really, honestly if he didn't have that year, we might not hate him as much as we do. He sat the bar so freakin' high that year. You could go into every PPV in 2000 and expect at least a **** match out of HHH. Triple H has bored the poo poo out of me since time immemorial and I honestly don't get it when people say stuff like this. His moveset is boring, his entrances are boring, his mic skills are boring. I feel that he was a huge beneficiary of working with some of the most talented wrestlers in the business, which made him look far better than he actually was. A lot of his 'greatest matches' were gimmick affairs, too, like Hell in the Cell or whatever. Not saying he was a poo poo wrestler, he was good, just that on his own, he didn't really do a goddamn thing for me, and he really hasn't done a whole lot before or since. There's very few folks who were in the main event scene who wouldn't look like a million bucks when matched up against Austin/Foley/Rock/Undertaker/Angle/etc. I know some people loved him, but Triple H just does nothing for me and I get confused when people praise the poo poo out of him for that time period, as I recall smarks hating the poo poo out of him back then. Has time changed opinions that drastically?
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Apr 3, 2012 02:17
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Too Cool, Rikishi, Mick Foley & The Rock vs HHH, Xpac, Dean Malenko, Perry Saturn & Chris Benoit
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Apr 3, 2012 02:25
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Do Triple H and Jonny Ace get on behind the scenes?
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Apr 3, 2012 02:26
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Perdido posted:Triple H has bored the poo poo out of me since time immemorial and I honestly don't get it when people say stuff like this. His moveset is boring, his entrances are boring, his mic skills are boring. Time didn't change poo poo, he was widely and correctly regarded as one of the best wrestlers on the planet in 2000. He was that good.
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Apr 3, 2012 02:32
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bobkatt013 posted:Too Cool, Rikishi, Mick Foley & The Rock vs HHH, Xpac, Dean Malenko, Perry Saturn & Chris Benoit Why wasn't Eddy in this match, was he just odd man out? And why did DX align themselves with the radicals?
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Apr 3, 2012 02:48
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The American Dream posted:Why wasn't Eddy in this match, was he just odd man out? And why did DX align themselves with the radicals? The radicls came into WWF and were forced to wrestle for their contracts. They had to win 3 out of their four matches and during eddies match he broke his arm. Then DX (Triple H and Steph) offered them contracts if they attacked their friend Mic.
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Apr 3, 2012 02:51
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Nut Bunnies posted:He was that drat good.  The American Dream posted:Why wasn't Eddy in this match, was he just odd man out? And why did DX align themselves with the radicals? Radicals aligned with DX to get their contracts, coming in the month before. McMahon-Helmsley Facgime era, so they had the kayfabe power. Eddie was injured from his first WWF match. I think Triple H just got paranoid when he returned in 2002 - early in 2001 he was still doing awesome matches, I remember his X-7 match with Taker being fairly good, before Taker went into Wrestlemania epic mode, and was kind of stinking it up as the American Badass. He still shows he's got potential to do really good standard wrestling matches here and there, but the age and double quad injury show.
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Apr 3, 2012 02:57
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Who was the last first-time world champion who didn't have an undeserving champion gimmick?
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Apr 3, 2012 04:34
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Meat Recital posted:Who was the last first-time world champion who didn't have an undeserving champion gimmick? If you don't count the ECW (or TNA) title, Christian's couple day World title reign last year was legitimate until he immediately lost the belt. Before that probably Jeff Hardy.
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Apr 3, 2012 04:37
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How much do WWE refs get paid? Theres only what, 5-6 of them? They have to put up the ring and take it down, go on the road to house shows, and sometimes get just as physical as the actual wrestlers. I mean I doubt they're making 6 figures (well, maybe Robinson) but it has to be pretty good to mess with all that. Though to be fair if I had the ability to be a WWE ref I'd do it too.
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Apr 3, 2012 05:02
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