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Thunder Hammerfist posted:In addition, I just want to add that he just looks like he's mailing it in about 90% of the time. I will give credit to the match he had with Barrett this week. He kinda moved like he had purpose, but his offense still looked like poo poo during it I think it's just a moveset thing? He does a lot of moves that don't really make sense, but look snappy and flashy. Whenever either he or his opponent half-rear end or miss-time the beginning of a move, it comes off as looking sloppier or weaker than normal, because his stikes all rely on a small part of his body making contact with a specific part of an opponent's body, and the re-alignments both wrestlers have to make to try and make sure the move it still going to his takes all the "snap" out of it.
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Jan 4, 2013 09:30
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Tyma posted:Are there any stories of wrestlers being that upset with their placement or gimmick, while they were actually being pushed to the moon, in the eyes of everyone else? Mason Ryan thought he was being pushed too fast when he was FCW champion, but I doubt he was upset per se.
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Jan 4, 2013 15:08
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Well, now that I think about it, I'd be happier to see Kofi's role played by someone like Tyson Kidd, who also has good spots and has something in between them too. Weird puro trivia time: How do you say "Space Tornado Ogawa" in Japanese? Because the actual Japanese name of the move is just osoto-otoshi. I guess "Big Outer Drop" wasn't an appropriate name for a move in a medium where a powerbomb isn't one of the biggest drops out there. Chinston Wurchill posted:Mason Ryan thought he was being pushed too fast when he was FCW champion, but I doubt he was upset per se.
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Jan 4, 2013 16:43
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For me the biggest thing about Kofi is that more often than not, he needs to stop jumping/spinning/dancing and just loving hit the guy.
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Jan 4, 2013 17:25
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HulkaMatt posted:Like it took Angle about a year and a half to get really good and maybe another half year to become one of the best in the world. Yeah, isn't "the deal" with Angle simply that he was one of the greatest wrestlers in the world and may still be except people have a hard time seeing past what wek now about his physical and mental health? He still has to be top 10 in the US, no? Punk, Bryan, Aries, AJ, Steen maybe, Daniels maybe, Ziggler maybe, Cesaro might be climbing there in time, Roode maybe, Cena depending on your criteria. Angle has to be in there, no? As for Kofi I think he'd do very well in an X Division/spot based setting but I do agree that he doesn't seem to have much between the spots to tell a story. I hesitate to call him a "spot monkey" but he's not too far off. He should be doing crazy threeway matches with Zema Ion and Jigsaw. Although for awhile there WWE seemed to agree since it seemed like he was just bouncing between tag partners, which is a fine place to hide his flaws.
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Jan 4, 2013 17:26
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Yeah if someone has to ask "what's the deal about Kurt Angle" I assume they're a new fan and haven't watched his career. Basically Kurt is obsessed with being the best, and always proving that he is the best. He works through injuries and does high impact matches when he really doesn't need to (see his TNA career). Whether that's a good or bad thing for his life as a whole, it's meant his wrestling career has been filled with some amazing matches. To me the most remarkable thing about Kurt is that he has the charisma & promo ability he does. I'm not surprised he's a great athlete since he's an Olympic gold medalist, but he has a great wrestling personality as well. I'd recommend Kurt's WWE book, if you want to read more about him. Take it all with a grain of salt of course, but it's an interesting read.
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Jan 4, 2013 17:34
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Re the Kofi thing: I really wish he'd cut the boom drop and just do troubles in paradise out of loving nowhere. That move is hype as hell when it just lands and you weren't expecting it. The takes so long to set up for something that just doesn't look cool.
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Jan 4, 2013 17:58
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Perry Normal posted:For me the biggest thing about Kofi is that more often than not, he needs to stop jumping/spinning/dancing and just loving hit the guy. That's my biggest complaint about modern wrestling in general. Everyone's doing a hundred and one flippy-doos and spinny winnys that it gets exhausting and I just want to see someone throw a lot of punches during their comeback.
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Jan 4, 2013 18:20
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Gonzo McFee posted:That's my biggest complaint about modern wrestling in general. Everyone's doing a hundred and one flippy-doos and spinny winnys that it gets exhausting and I just want to see someone throw a lot of punches during their comeback. Yeah, this is what bothers me about American indies at the moment. If you're not 400lbs, you're doing moonsaults. Whatever happened to just doing a Funker and just hammering the guy with punches until he can't stand up. I blame this modern obsession on "workrate". Which, translated for indie workers, seems to be "getting ALL your poo poo in". Just trap a guy in a corner and throw punches, for the love of god. You don't need to handspring into it or whatever, just open him up and keep punching. Gyro Zeppeli fucked around with this message at 18:55 on Jan 4, 2013 |
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Jan 4, 2013 18:50
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Gonzo McFee posted:That's my biggest complaint about modern wrestling in general. Everyone's doing a hundred and one flippy-doos and spinny winnys that it gets exhausting and I just want to see someone throw a lot of punches during their comeback. Steen does that and also does some flippy poo poo, but only to better hurt his opponent.
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Jan 4, 2013 18:51
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Unless you're talking about indie wrestling or Japanese wrestling, I don't understand that complaint, and I haven't ever understood it. The WWE has too many guys who have a job because they're tall bodybuilders who would botch onto their asses if they attempted the dreaded Spinny Winny. If I could fundamentally change modern pro wrestling, I would make it involve more wrestling. There's some things about puroresu I don't like, but one of the good things about the Japanese blurring the line between MMA and puroresu is that they're more comfortable with a match that is a theatrical, cinematic version of a real fight--for example, the Tajiri/Finlay matches.
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Jan 4, 2013 18:55
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Halloween Jack posted:Unless you're talking about indie wrestling or Japanese wrestling, I don't understand that complaint, and I haven't ever understood it. The WWE has too many guys who have a job because they're tall bodybuilders who would botch onto their asses if they attempted the dreaded Spinny Winny. If I could fundamentally change modern pro wrestling, I would make it involve more wrestling. There's some things about puroresu I don't like, but one of the good things about the Japanese blurring the line between MMA and puroresu is that they're more comfortable with a match that is a theatrical, cinematic version of a real fight--for example, the Tajiri/Finlay matches. Yeah, that's why I specified American indies. It doesn't seem to be nearly as widespread anywhere else.
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Jan 4, 2013 18:58
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VogeGandire posted:Yeah, that's why I specified American indies. It doesn't seem to be nearly as widespread anywhere else. You don't get it, starting the match with a cradle driver and a standing SSP is called psychology. All the old wrestlers are all going on and on about psychology all the time and my psychology is look at all this stuff that Bruno Sammartino never did I'm cooler and the sport is more advanced now. Punches are old and busted, it's all about frontflip triangle dropkicks now.
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Jan 4, 2013 19:19
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projecthalaxy posted:You don't get it, starting the match with a cradle driver and a standing SSP is called psychology. All the old wrestlers are all going on and on about psychology all the time and my psychology is look at all this stuff that Bruno Sammartino never did I'm cooler and the sport is more advanced now. Punches are old and busted, it's all about frontflip triangle dropkicks now. 
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Jan 4, 2013 19:27
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Punching isn't a wrestling move. 
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Jan 4, 2013 21:09
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It's not nice to make me have to explain why I'm laughing in my office right now..
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Jan 4, 2013 21:15
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So I was watching some old lucha movies last night and I'm really digging the looks of this Tinieblas fella. I see he was a bodybuilder they hired specifically for his role. Was he any good in the ring? Does he have any really noteworthy matches that I should look into? Am I barking up the wrong tree by asking about lucha? These questions also apply to Tinieblas, Jr.
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Jan 4, 2013 22:35
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Bocc Kob posted:Punching isn't a wrestling move. TERRY FUNK would like to disagree. Also, he didn't wear no mouth piece.
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Jan 4, 2013 22:56
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Is there any chance of Smackdown going regularly live in the near future?
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Jan 4, 2013 23:03
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Probably not. Running a live show is a lot more expensive and WWE doesn't value Smackdown enough for that. I think they'd ax the program before they made it live.
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Jan 4, 2013 23:04
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Valeyard posted:Is there any chance of Smackdown going regularly live in the near future? Do you mean that they move Smackdown to Tuesday nights, or the WWE starts running Smackdown on Fridays to be live that way? I doubt either will happen, really
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Jan 4, 2013 23:05
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Do they get WWE TV in Japan? What about PPVs? Or do they have to rely on the internet for the most part to see American stuff?
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Jan 4, 2013 23:28
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Sears Poncho posted:Do they get WWE TV in Japan? What about PPVs? According to WWE's Japan page, yes, they get the same amount of WWE TV and PPVs America gets. triplexpac posted:Do you mean that they move Smackdown to Tuesday nights, or the WWE starts running Smackdown on Fridays to be live that way? Yeah, I can't see WWE doing anything drastic like that with SmackDown anytime soon unless their hand gets forced like when USA asked for RAW to be 3 hours (that was USA that made that decision, right?). Edit: I can't even imagine them canning SmackDown entirely. If they did take it off TV, they would probably stream it online in a super downsized format keeping the name for brand recognition. Justin Godscock fucked around with this message at 23:59 on Jan 4, 2013 |
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Jan 4, 2013 23:56
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Well I was thinking more of straight live broadcast from Tuesday, or Friday, it wouldn't matter too much either way. I expected there is little chance of this. I don't know what time they record it on Tuesdays but having it played on tape delay on Tuesday night would be interesting. I only bring it up since I read their deal with SyFy expires later this year
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Jan 4, 2013 23:57
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It will never be live on Friday. That fucks with everyone's schedule a bunch.
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Jan 5, 2013 00:02
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Any tape delayed show will always be second-tier because you can't have any big moments in today's internet age. Let's say Ziggler cashes in MITB on Big Show at Tuesday's tapings and wins the World Heavyweight Championship. Every wrestling website on the internet will lead with "HUGE SPOILER FOR SMACKDOWN DONT CLICK IF YOU DONT WANT TO KNOW", dozens of fans will have whipped out their phones the second Ziggler's music hits and upload to youtube, and by the time Friday rolls around, anyone with a passing interest may tune in at the very end to see Ziggler win. So why not save it for Raw, where twitter will explode and everyone will be surprised at the same time. Seeing a huge moment will always be better than reading about a huge moment, and in today's internet age, you simply can't keep anything hidden. The 2013 wrestling fan is conditioned to expect big moments, big debuts on either Raw or PPV.
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Jan 5, 2013 00:35
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VogeGandire posted:Yeah, that's why I specified American indies. It doesn't seem to be nearly as widespread anywhere else. To be more specific about something that bothers me in puro as well as American indie wrestling, I don't understand why complicated drivers need to exist. Do you really need to do a reverse inverted wrist clutch Gotch style Avalanche Sheerdrop Raspberry Cheesecake Flowsion so that you can say that you "innovated" your finisher?
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Jan 5, 2013 01:13
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Hamass posted:Let's say Ziggler cashes in MITB on Big Show at Tuesday's tapings and wins the World Heavyweight Championship. Every wrestling website on the internet will lead with "HUGE SPOILER FOR SMACKDOWN DONT CLICK IF YOU DONT WANT TO KNOW", dozens of fans will have whipped out their phones the second Ziggler's music hits and upload to youtube, and by the time Friday rolls around, anyone with a passing interest may tune in at the very end to see Ziggler win. That'll put asses in seats.
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Jan 5, 2013 03:07
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More of a forum question, what's the rule on selling wrestling stuff? Should I link to an SA-Mart thread or what? I remember there was an official buy/sell/trade thread a long time ago. I'm looking to sell my wrestling collection.
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Jan 5, 2013 04:28
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WeaselWeaz posted:More of a forum question, what's the rule on selling wrestling stuff? Should I link to an SA-Mart thread or what? I remember there was an official buy/sell/trade thread a long time ago. I'm looking to sell my wrestling collection. I know that in the retro video game thread, they tend to give first dibs to people there before taking it to SA-Mart. But I'm not sure on official forum rules
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Jan 5, 2013 05:35
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LvK posted:So I was watching some old lucha movies last night and I'm really digging the looks of this Tinieblas fella. I see he was a bodybuilder they hired specifically for his role. Was he any good in the ring? Does he have any really noteworthy matches that I should look into? Am I barking up the wrong tree by asking about lucha? Very few people know much about lucha in these parts, it's true. Luchwiki can often help with this sorta thing. quote:The lack of titles and big singles main events during his career tells us that Tinieblas' biggest strength wasn't his ringwork. It was adequate, though, but as he had a very late debut, age caught him faster than it does with other luchadores. http://www.luchawiki.com/index.php?title=Tinieblas quote:Son of Tinieblas. Has mostly benefited from the name, but usually hasn't tarnished it. Treated as an big, if not important star during his stints in the major promotions. http://www.luchawiki.com/index.php?title=Tinieblas_Jr.
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Jan 5, 2013 06:03
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I'm watching every Raw of 1997 in order. I've just seen the Manhattan Centre episode with all those ECW matches and Paul E on commentary. I realise it's all a work but was there any real heat between Paul and the ECW guys and Jerry/Vince? There's a particularly awkward moment where a moments silence between the action and an ad break is filled by Paul asking "Is THAT it?" Or am I being a silly mark? Does anyone have any nice stories about Vader? I realise he was a big softie backstage, has anyone got any examples of his gentle giant nature?
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Jan 5, 2013 10:45
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Well, when Mick had his ear removed, apparently he was inconsolably worried backstage, and apologized nearly every time he and Mick met after that.
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Jan 5, 2013 11:49
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britishbornandbread posted:I'm watching every Raw of 1997 in order. I've just seen the Manhattan Centre episode with all those ECW matches and Paul E on commentary. I realise it's all a work but was there any real heat between Paul and the ECW guys and Jerry/Vince? There's a particularly awkward moment where a moments silence between the action and an ad break is filled by Paul asking "Is THAT it?" Or am I being a silly mark? Yes and no. There is no "off" switch on Paul Heyman, it's full bore "work" mode with him, in everything he does, 24/7. Heyman's rightous indignation on everything is/was as much a work on his own guys as it was the audience, made it "easier" to stomach getting stiffed on paychecks when you believed that you were actually part of something organic and groundbreaking. Heyman burned and tended to continue burning a lot of bridges throughout memphis and the other southern territories early in his career, so it's not surprising that he and Lawler would get snippy with each other. It's also pretty safe to assume that there was heat with the boys in ECW and the WWF lockerroom on that show, seeing at that point RAW was still only an hour long, getting their asses kicked in the ratings by WCW, and here they were, devoting an entire show to hyping another company's upcoming PPV.
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Jan 5, 2013 13:35
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britishbornandbread posted:I'm watching every Raw of 1997 in order. I've just seen the Manhattan Centre episode with all those ECW matches and Paul E on commentary. I realise it's all a work but was there any real heat between Paul and the ECW guys and Jerry/Vince? There's a particularly awkward moment where a moments silence between the action and an ad break is filled by Paul asking "Is THAT it?" Or am I being a silly mark? There was heat between certain groups. Most of the WWF guys didn't like the ECW guys and didn't allow them to dress in the locker room. They didn't like that another promotion was being featured on their show, which is a legitimate gripe. Paul and Vince had no heat, Vince supported ECW as a training ground and Paul was on the WWF payroll. Paul and Lawler did have heat dating back to Memphis, but I think it's harder to to tell what is legit and what is just working. Lawler's story Paul was managing Austin Idol (I think) going into a scaffold match against Lawler. He did promos for weeks and on the night of the show claimed he was afraid of heights and would not get on the scaffold or bump off it. Lawler was pissed and during a match broke Paul's jaw as a receipt. Paul says that Lawler broke his jaw before that match and was sloppy. Of course, both men are huge workers outside of the ring and this heat didn't prevent them from working together in ECW. Lawler didn't complain about Memphis having an ECW invasion either. My thought is that Paul did what he thought was good for business, while Lawler did as asked by Vince and probably enjoyed being able to go out and get huge heat in ECW.
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Jan 5, 2013 15:55
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WeaselWeaz posted:There was heat between certain groups. Most of the WWF guys didn't like the ECW guys and didn't allow them to dress in the locker room. They didn't like that another promotion was being featured on their show, which is a legitimate gripe. Paul and Vince had no heat, Vince supported ECW as a training ground and Paul was on the WWF payroll. The money Vince gave to Heyman was absolutely minuscule and the myth that Vince was bailing out ECW is completely false. It's just WWE revisionism.
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Jan 5, 2013 17:47
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Halloween Jack posted:Weird puro trivia time: How do you say "Space Tornado Ogawa" in Japanese? Because the actual Japanese name of the move is just osoto-otoshi. I guess "Big Outer Drop" wasn't an appropriate name for a move in a medium where a powerbomb isn't one of the biggest drops out there. a literal translation would be "uchuu tatsumaki Ogawa", but something like that would likely just be thrown through the katakana filter and become "supeesu torunedo". also for WWE in Japan, yes they have a TV deal there, but it's on satellite (there's essentially no cable service that I know of). WWE is on JSports. The thing you might not realize, though, is satellite isn't as widespread as cable, satellite, or other forms are in the U.S. - the average American gets 100 TV channels and cable/satellite are widespread, but in Japan, that average number is closer to 8. Much fewer people in Japan have extended TV than in America.
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Jan 5, 2013 17:53
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Gonzo McFee posted:The money Vince gave to Heyman was absolutely minuscule and the myth that Vince was bailing out ECW is completely false. It's just WWE revisionism. The money was not large, but Vince would give ECW money and would send contracted talent there earlier in their relationship. Cornette and Lawler were both stars. Brakus and Al Snow were sent there after both had debuted in the WWF. Brakus was just horrible and left wrestling, while Al Snow became a main event star in ECW with the Head gimmick. Supposedly Vince would give ECW or Heyman a bit of money when he would sign talent. Was it a lot of money? Probably not, but the closest groups that got benefits like that were Memphis, SMW, OVW, and HWA. All of those, except SMW, were developmental territories.
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Jan 5, 2013 18:24
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WeaselWeaz posted:The money was not large, but Vince would give ECW money and would send contracted talent there earlier in their relationship. Cornette and Lawler were both stars. Brakus and Al Snow were sent there after both had debuted in the WWF. Brakus was just horrible and left wrestling, while Al Snow became a main event star in ECW with the Head gimmick. Supposedly Vince would give ECW or Heyman a bit of money when he would sign talent. Was it a lot of money? Probably not, but the closest groups that got benefits like that were Memphis, SMW, OVW, and HWA. All of those, except SMW, were developmental territories. I think this shows you don't really know what you're talking about when it comes to ECW.
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Jan 5, 2013 18:35
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Yeah, that confused me. Al Snow was never main event in ECW. He was midcard at best.
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Jan 5, 2013 18:36
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