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VogeGandire posted:Yeah, that confused me. Admittedly I did not watch much ECW. Main event star is a stretch, but I thought he was supposed to be very over. That said, I've always heard he was going win the title at a PPV but WWF decided to bring him back. My point was that WWF sent contracted talent to ECW as part of their relationship at the time.
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Jan 5, 2013 19:07
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How many wrestlers debuted as a referee? I remember reading about Dangerous Danny Davis (I think that was his name), and obviously now Brad Maddox. Also, Shane McMahon appeared as a ref, like in the 1991 Royal Rumble. Another way of asking that, how many referees became actual talent inside a company? Such as Teddy Long and Bill Alfonso.
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Jan 5, 2013 19:21
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Snow main evented 2 ECW PPV's (Living Dangerously & Wrestlepalooza 98). One was for the ECW title even! But yeah, I wouldn't consider him an actual "main eventer"
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Jan 5, 2013 19:23
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Heyman spent more on foam heads than he probably ever did on any other wrestler so you could still say he was important to ECW.
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Jan 5, 2013 19:25
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I don't post a lot more just lurk to keep up with wrestling but I remember Al Snow main eventing an ECW show against Shane Douglas I thought it was wrestlepalooza or something like that in like the late 90's. Would that mean he was main event or just a midcarder? Back in the day when I would watch ECW I always thought he was a huge star but that's just because I remember the crowds going nuts for him and having all those heads. It might just be that I don't know the difference between a mid card guy and a main event guy.
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Jan 5, 2013 19:26
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jase1 posted:I don't post a lot more just lurk to keep up with wrestling but I remember Al Snow main eventing an ECW show against Shane Douglas I thought it was wrestlepalooza or something like that in like the late 90's. Would that mean he was main event or just a midcarder? Back in the day when I would watch ECW I always thought he was a huge star but that's just because I remember the crowds going nuts for him and having all those heads. It might just be that I don't know the difference between a mid card guy and a main event guy. Just because he was in a handful of main events doesn't make him a main eventer. Every once in a while a midcard guy will get elevated to the main event for a month or two. R-Truth main evented a PPV, but is still a midcarder. Koslov main evented a PPV but is still a midcarder. Khali main evented a bunch of PPV's back in 07 but is still pretty solidly a midcarder. It doesn't really have to do with crowd reaction either necessarily. Yeah the ECW crowd went nuts for Al Snow, but they also went nuts for RVD, Sabu, Sandman, Balls Mahoney, etc... I feel like you could make a much more compelling argument as to whether RVD in ECW could be considered a main eventer. Most of the time he was only competing for the TV title, but also most of the time he was one of ECW's most easily recognizable talent.
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Jan 5, 2013 19:33
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LightsGameraAction posted:Yeah the ECW crowd went nuts for Al Snow, but they also went nuts for RVD, Sabu, Sandman, Balls Mahoney, etc... Not to argue your point that Al Snow wasn't a main eventer in ECW but all but one of the people you mentioned (Balls) were.
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Jan 5, 2013 20:20
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Cardboard Box posted:Not to argue your point that Al Snow wasn't a main eventer in ECW but all but one of the people you mentioned (Balls) were. Fair enough but I could have just as easily said Tajiri, late-era Mikey Whipwreck, New Jack, Super Crazy, etc... None of those guys had a particularly prominent spot in the main event.
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Jan 5, 2013 22:24
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Yeah, that would've been a much better comparison to make.
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Jan 5, 2013 22:33
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ECW always had a midcard guy who was super over with the crowd as his purpose was to pop the crowd in boring sections. Al Snow was that guy at one point, Sid Vicious was that guy at one point, and around the end of ECW it was New Jack. I remember a few shows where without question, New Jack got the loudest pop. Even louder than Sandman or RVD. They even put him on VHS covers. But nobody fooled themselves into thinking that New Jack was anything more than a midcarder. Al Snow always felt like to me Stevie Richards replacement. Even the Job Squad felt like the bWo. Now, that also lends credence to the idea that Paul Heyman was pushing Al Snow to the main event but when he left he wasn't really there yet. Paper Jam Dipper fucked around with this message at 23:46 on Jan 5, 2013 |
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Jan 5, 2013 23:44
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Related to the TNA PPV thread: Did anyone jump ship from TNA when Russo came in? Surely at least a few of them had enough sense.
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Jan 6, 2013 01:24
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VogeGandire posted:Related to the TNA PPV thread: Not sure about the first time, but the second time, Sean Waltman quit.
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Jan 6, 2013 01:27
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Hockles posted:How many wrestlers debuted as a referee? I remember reading about Dangerous Danny Davis (I think that was his name), and obviously now Brad Maddox. Also, Shane McMahon appeared as a ref, like in the 1991 Royal Rumble. I've always assumed a lot of refs were guys who trained to be wrestlers but couldn't make it for some reason (untalented, not tough enough, too short/fat, not muscular, etc etc), so it might happen quite a bit. I think in Smokey Mountain Wrestling, future WCW ref Mark Curtis used to ref and then wrestle in a mask as Kowabunga, the Wrestling Turtle. Shane McMahon did some refereeing too, though obviously circumstances are different in that case. Perry Normal fucked around with this message at 02:29 on Jan 6, 2013 |
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Jan 6, 2013 01:59
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I don't think he debuted as a referee, but Jake Roberts said that he spent some time as a referee because he was incredibly nervous about performing. It's in his AOW interview. (Colt Cabana: "The tallest referee ever!")
Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 03:35 on Jan 6, 2013 |
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Jan 6, 2013 03:14
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Jefferoo posted:Other than winning a gold medal at the olympics, what's the big deal around Kurt Angle? Is he interesting or compelling at all? I'm kinda curious on people's thoughts on him. Well he's a delusional addict and pathological liar irl if you find that interesting or compelling. In terms of pro wrestling he's a WWE grand slam champion (won every title) and TNA triple crown winner (every title except TV). He got into the Observer Hall of Fame way back in 2004, before Triple H or Rey Mysterio. He's had half a dozen MOTYCs every year in the past 13 years, and even his worst matches are usually pretty good. He's widely considered one of the greatest of all time, it's like you're asking what's the big deal with Ric Flair other than surviving a plane crash.
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Jan 6, 2013 04:18
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Perry Normal posted:I've always assumed a lot of refs were guys who trained to be wrestlers but couldn't make it for some reason (untalented, not tough enough, too short/fat, not muscular, etc etc), so it might happen quite a bit. I think in Smokey Mountain Wrestling, future WCW ref Mark Curtis used to ref and then wrestle in a mask as Kowabunga, the Wrestling Turtle. Shane McMahon did some refereeing too, though obviously circumstances are different in that case. Mark Curtis actually trained as a wrestler with Mick Foley and Shane Douglas. He wound up as a full time referee/office staff in SMW because he was a smaller guy, and when SMW closed he started reffing in WCW. From what I remember, and I've already been criticized for my ECW knowledge, Judge Jeff Jones started as a heel referee before he managed Mike Awesome.
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Jan 6, 2013 04:37
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Hockles posted:How many wrestlers debuted as a referee? I remember reading about Dangerous Danny Davis (I think that was his name), and obviously now Brad Maddox. Also, Shane McMahon appeared as a ref, like in the 1991 Royal Rumble. Umm... Hello? Garrett Bischoff
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Jan 6, 2013 04:41
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Oatgan posted:Umm... Hello? Garrett Bischoff Does this guy still wrestle in fuckin track pants? He did last time I watched TNA and good god he needs to do something aside from wrestling terribly and being green as grass because god he's loving awful.
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Jan 6, 2013 04:48
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amplifierWORSHIP posted:Does this guy still wrestle in fuckin track pants? He did last time I watched TNA and good god he needs to do something aside from wrestling terribly and being green as grass because god he's loving awful. Leather track pants. And to answer your question, yes.
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Jan 6, 2013 04:52
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Oatgan posted:Leather track pants. And to answer your question, yes. Well I sure hope Eric Bischoff fucks right off then because his next of kin is real worthless in a wrestling context. Let him go work on terrible television because that is all that family is goof for.
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Jan 6, 2013 04:57
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Jefferoo posted:Other than winning a gold medal at the olympics, what's the big deal around Kurt Angle? Is he interesting or compelling at all? I'm kinda curious on people's thoughts on him. Angle had an insane amount of raw ability, but I'm not sure he made the best use of it. He often seemed so eager to get to the next move that things like selling, pacing, and logical transitions would fall by the wayside, and as a result I think a lot of his work comes off as somewhat cartoon-like. He also filled his matches with brawling when it didn't really suit him as a wrestler or a character, which might have been a consequence of working the modern WWE style. Were these problems enough to keep him from having great matches? No. Summerslam 01 with Austin is an easy MOTDC, and there's plenty more worth mentioning. Even at his most excessive, he's still fun to watch. But I don't see him as one of the greatest ever, certainly not on the level of a Flair, Eddie, Misawa, Tenryu, Santo, etc. To be honest, I would probably take Cena career vs. career, although that's one I'd have to think about. The Duck of Death fucked around with this message at 06:28 on Jan 6, 2013 |
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Jan 6, 2013 06:25
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The Duck of Death posted:Angle had an insane amount of raw ability, but I'm not sure he made the best use of it. He often seemed so eager to get to the next move that things like selling, pacing, and logical transitions would fall by the wayside, and as a result I think a lot of his work comes off as somewhat cartoon-like. He also filled his matches with brawling when it didn't really suit him as a wrestler or a character, which might have been a consequence of working the modern WWE style. Angle was pretty much Benoit with mic skills. Super intense physicality, was the poster-boy for the excessively dangerous '00-'01 WWF workrate, and generally had good to great matches with almost everyone throughout his later career even after the WWE style toned down. Unsurpassed ability to make chain wrestling and mat wrestling interesting, which is something only the very best guys can do to begin with and really isn't getting taught to WWE's homegrown talent. Cena going over Angle as if he were a jobber to the stars in 2005/2006 was what turned crowds against Cena for years, because Angle's superior abilities were apparent and he had the loyalty of the fans even besides. I was always a Benoit guy, but it was completely obvious that Angle was the definition of the total package wrestler.
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Jan 6, 2013 06:40
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Yeah. Cena going over Jericho and Angle in quick succession was a really bad idea, kind of. I mean he had to go over strong guys to look strong, but blegh.
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Jan 6, 2013 06:49
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Cena going over Angle in late 2005 is certainly what turned the tide against Cena that lasted throughout the rest of that year, into 2006, and reached a low point at One Night Stand 2006. Which was really a huge shock because for much of 2005 WWE had Cena as their #1 guy who won his first title at WrestleMania 21 and was a hugely over megaface (watch anything Cena from 2005 to see what I mean). So, for Cena to start getting boo'd in some areas was actually a huge shock and practically turned into a protest that lasted throughout 2006. This was made so much worse by WWE seemingly running their major shows in smark strongholds like Chicago, Boston, New York and Toronto that year. Edit: It's kind of awkward to explain Angle's appeal today post-Benoit and with his TNA run about to exceed his WWE run. He was basically a legit-athlete who won a gold medal in heavyweight wrestling (NOT an easy feat) who exemplified hard work and working through injuries and pain (again, this is pre-Benoit and really hard to look back now). He wrestled a more technical style but was able to make it really entertaining and his promos were so good and intense and he was really good at some light-hearted stuff as well. His match against Stone Cold at SummerSlam 2001, mentioned earlier, is so loving good and having watched it for the first time since 2001 earlier this year I was stunned at how amazing it was (though it had a bullshit finish). His matches against Benoit as well were golden as the two made a perfect pairing (the 2003 Royal Rumble match was the best they ever had). Again, it's hard to watch some of that stuff now for the same reason it's hard to watch some Benoit stuff: some of his stunts might have helped contribute to his declining mental and physical state. Justin Godscock fucked around with this message at 07:57 on Jan 6, 2013 |
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Jan 6, 2013 07:51
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Besides his incredible workrate, enough can't be said about how good Angle was as a charismatic and entertaining character as well. I mean look at 2001-2002 Angle: how in just one year in the business he was able to seamlessly transition his character from chicken-poo poo heel to goof-ball tweener to superhero babyface to arrogant snarky heel to super serious wrestling machine is just absolutely incredible. He could mock John Cena in a rap battle one week and then the next week become a fearless machine out wrestling Brock Lesnar clean. NO ONE will ever match that kind of chameleon wrestler/entertainer package. Just a shame about his concussions, addictions, and mental sanity lapses (which I imagine are not coincidentally connected).
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Jan 6, 2013 08:16
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Shiki Dan posted:He could mock John Cena in a rap battle one week and then the next week become a fearless machine out wrestling Brock Lesnar clean. Week? Angle can go from  to  mid-sentence.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wgwhk57HcB8
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Jan 6, 2013 08:38
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Angle was like if the Ultimate Warrior was actually legit.
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Jan 6, 2013 08:48
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Angle trying to be Austin's pal was some of the funniest stuff the company has ever done, with regards to backstage vignettes.
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Jan 6, 2013 09:53
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Yeah, the comedy skits from 2000 & 2001 were fantastic. They had genuinely funny talent up and down the card. But I'm told it was mostly due to a guy that no longer works for them and died of cancer 
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Jan 6, 2013 10:06
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edotherocket posted:Yeah, the comedy skits from 2000 & 2001 were fantastic. They had genuinely funny talent up and down the card. He was gone by the end of 2000, so if you liked 2001 that was when Steph was in charge. Angle might actually be a guy who is a victim of his own talent. Because he was so funny on the mic and being goofy WWE went to that well a lot, maybe at the expense of his ability to draw as a serious character. It doesn't really matter in the long run, but it's funny to think about.
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Jan 6, 2013 10:28
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The great thing about Angle is that even when he was being a goof, when he took the straps down it meant business was about to pick the gently caress up. I miss getting to gleefully shout  "STRAPS DOWN!" 
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Jan 6, 2013 12:43
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Whenever a wrestler takes his straps down I never think, "oh man poo poo is about to get serious!  " I always wonder "how do his pants stay up? Is spandex that tight? Why have straps at all then?  "
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Jan 6, 2013 13:21
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Jerusalem posted:The great thing about Angle is that even when he was being a goof, when he took the straps down it meant business was about to pick the gently caress up. One the greatest Mania moments ever was at 21 in his match with HBK, Angle goes to take the straps down, but realises he'd already done it earlier, so he puts them back on and immediately takes them off again  .
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Jan 6, 2013 13:38
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Bocc Kob posted:Week? Angle can go from I loved this version of that attitude. When he was fueding with HBK he brought out Sensational Sherri to help sing "I'm Just A Sexy Kurt". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RegHMfhrk4I Video is missing the end where Angle decides it's time to stop being funny and he puts Sherri in the ankle lock, causing HBK to run out to save her.
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Jan 6, 2013 16:07
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The best thing about Kurt was he could attack from all Angles. Also, he wore a mouthguard that said violence. HE WORE A MOUTHGUARD THAT SAID VIOLENCE.
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Jan 6, 2013 17:13
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Angle also had the best return ever when on a random ECW episode Paul Heyman was talking to the Bashams and then turns off screen and screams OH MY GOD IT'S KURT ANGLE then Kurt runs into frame and murders the Bashams.
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Jan 6, 2013 17:37
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Okay, one more Lucha question: Are there any big lucha "supercards" or huge events I should look into? The only Lucha event I know is Triplemania, which I've never seen in its entirety. Is there a particular year for Triplemania I should get started on? (the 1995 card on IVP looks pretty good so far)
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Jan 6, 2013 20:28
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oldpainless posted:The best thing about Kurt was he could attack from all Angles. Also, he wore a mouthguard that said violence. I never liked that. It gave him a ridiculous lisp.
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Jan 6, 2013 20:28
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Suleman posted:I never liked that. It gave him a ridiculous lisp. He had to start wearing them because Cena botched and hurt Angle's mouth.
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Jan 6, 2013 21:05
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