Wrestling Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread - "ASK THEM! >:("

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Red: Apr 15, 2003; Yeah, great at getting us into Wawa.

1. I'm curious about WWE's financial expenditures, and income.

Their production value overall has gone through the roof in the last few years, and they really outdo themselves on music, sets, and promotion. I can't believe they take in enough money to offset what they must spend, especially since buyrates and advertising money must be down, and they probably pay good money to HHH/Taker/Cena/Edge. And the pay-per-appearance to people like Rock and Austin, and for useless "celebrities" must really eat away at their bottom line.

2. I kind of dig Del Rio as a heel, and think he's doing a pretty great job on SD!. But, really, while I think his Rumble win was a really nice surprise, it's hard for me to see him as a main eventer, especially one who seems to be in line for the belt at WrestleMania.

3. Is Edge retiring any time soon? I swear I read that somewhere.

# ¿ Mar 19, 2011 11:21

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 17:59

Red: Apr 15, 2003; Yeah, great at getting us into Wawa.

Oh! My question is, why the big push? What do they see in him?

# ¿ Mar 19, 2011 12:28

Red: Apr 15, 2003; Yeah, great at getting us into Wawa.

Spikeguy posted:

So was Rowdy Roddy Piper a racist? I ask because he did that one promo against Mr. T where he said, "this is the only guy I know who wears more chains than his ancestors." He wore a shirt that said white is right and then of course there was the time he painted half his body black in his feud with Bad News Brown. Opinions? Heel heat or racist?

I think it's probably more likely that Piper and the writers/bookers had no common sense to let them consider the possibility that those things might be offensive.

# ¿ Mar 23, 2011 02:32

Red: Apr 15, 2003; Yeah, great at getting us into Wawa.

LightsGameraAction posted:

Who did Bob Holly blackmail that he was able to be a complete dickweed and still keep his job for 15 years?

I mean I can only assume it was some situation like that because I've yet to hear a Bob Holly story that couldn't end with "Yea, he's kind of a piece of poo poo."

I think it was a combination of:

- Bob was loyal to Vince when a lot of talent jumped to WCW in the mid-90s, so he enjoyed some job security when WWF/E became the only show in town.

- Bob, from what I've read, is a hard-rear end to a lot of people, but is a good locker room policeman and a good instructor to rookies. And, unlike Al Snow, once in a while the WWF/E knew how to book him. His feuds with Al Snow/Road Dogg, Chyna/Jericho and angles with Crash/Molly were actually all right. He worked the style the WWF/E liked, was dependable, wasn't too political, and was good filler for the undercard and house shows.

As long as you show up to work, do what's asked of you, don't bitch, don't threaten the guys on top, and don't get busted for roids/drugs/wife-beating, and get involved in an interesting angle now and then, you have a job.

# ¿ Mar 24, 2011 14:44

Red: Apr 15, 2003; Yeah, great at getting us into Wawa.

Random question: I remember reading that Chris Jericho worked stiff when he first came to the WWF, which didn't win him any friends. Has it always been a no-no to wrestle stiff in McMahon-land? I feel like Vader got a lot of crap for it, too. It's kind of required to keep yourself from being bullied in Japan, but I don't know what it's like in WCW/TNA/ECW/indies.

# ¿ Mar 25, 2011 10:08

Red: Apr 15, 2003; Yeah, great at getting us into Wawa.

quote:

When wrestling in Montreal, all the boys share one room, but it is a large one. Unlike our fictional television scenarios, and unlike WCW's real-life hierarchical star system, there are no 'star' dressing rooms in the World Wrestling Federation. Everyone more or less piles into one or two dressing rooms and coexists rather peacefully. Even if such star dressing rooms did exist, it is unlikely that Al Snow would be allowed in one.

So it was in this close dressing proximity that I noticed something rather odd as Al pulled up his one-piece wrestling singlet. He wasn't wearing any underwear beneath it. Strangely, I felt compelled to ask him about this rather unusual choice in costuming. 'Underwear shows lines, and it doesn't look good on television,' Al explained, which didn't explain too much since this was not a televised show. 'Well, aren't you afraid of..' I started to say before breaking out into a big grin. 'What?', Al asked, but I just shook my head as if to say 'Never mind.'

I had an idea, but I needed an accomplice. Someone who could get in the ring with Al. Who were we wrestling that night? I looked at the line-up for the show. A four-team elimination match with Snow and Mankind vs. The Dudleyz vs. The Acolytes vs. Crash and Hardcore Holly. Bob! He was the man.

' Bob,' I began, laughing in a really transparent phony way as I sat beside him. 'Hey, do you remember the time when I asked Al for the Elvis tape?' Bob burst out at the mere mention of the wonderful story. 'Hey, tell it to Bubba,' he exclaimed, and in accordance with Bob's wishes, I did my best to entertain Bob and Bubba, that blatant Cactus Jack rip-off. Although as blatant Cactus Jack rip-offs go, he is pretty drat good. The cool thing is that Bubba will take this as a compliment.

..............

I was still laughing when my music played. 'I know you're up to something,' Al kept saying, but I denied it as if I was a big-tobacco executive being interviewed on '60 Minutes'.

The bell rang, and I watched Acolyte Bradshaw sell Crash's punches as if he were Al Snow taking a Road Dogg chairshot. Bubba came in and brought Crash into a corner. Once there, he seized the five-foot-six Elroy Jetson look-alike up for a chop and SMACK brought his big hand down on Crash's pectoralis major with full force. The smacking of hand on flesh that echoed throughout the arena gave me an idea. 'Keep him there,' I said to Bubba, and moved to the timekeeper's table as fast as I could. In other words, it took me forever. I climbed up on the apron and headed for the corner. Bubba seemed somewhat apprehensive as he wondered what the hardcore legend might do. 'Chop him again', I yelled, and as Bubba reared back, I placed the house microphone right next to the approximate area where contact would be made. WHACKKK! The sound was awesome, and the crowd went BANANA!

Bubba then tagged me in, and the current and future hardcore legends shot young Elroy into the ropes and combined with a devastating multigenerational, um, something or other. I then proceeded to go to work on Crash in a style eerily reminiscent of the early-eighties Lou Albano, which is not exactly a good thing to be compared to. I wasn't concerned about my effort, however. I was only concerned about the next two tags. I took Crash into my own corner and gave him a good old-fashioned 'Beale toss' toward his. Crash got up and tagged in Bob. I walked over and tagged in Al.

Innocently, the poor bastard walked in, unaware that his life was about to be turned upside down, literally. He was smiling his stupid 'Look at me, I'm nuts' smile, and had his stupid HELP ME painted backwards on his head, so it read EM LPEH. It should have read RETHGUALS OT DEL GNIEB BMAL, because that's essentially what he was.

Bob greeted Al with a stiff boot to the stomach. Everything Bob does hurts like hell, so why should this boot have been any different? I saw Bob hook Al's arm around his head in preparation for a vertical suplex. He then grabbed the short legging of Al's singlet, as most people do to execute the move correctly. Al suspected nothing. In an instant Holly made his move. With one quick yank, he moved the left legging over to the right side of Al's crotch, exposing his privates in the process. It should have been a milestone in my life, Al being publicly humiliated, but it wasn't. Instead, I felt strangely sad.

A singlet, you see, is tremendous for protecting the testicles. A singlet is not tremendous, however, when it comes to displaying the dimensions of the male reprductive organ in a complimentary way, which is why the first thing a singlet wearer does when he removes that particular article of ring attire, is give the organ in question a quick but firm tug to free it from its 'childlike state'. Unfortunately for Al, he was locked in suplex postion by the powerful Holly, and was not able to get a secret tug into the night's agenda. Therefore, as Holly lifted Snow into the vertical position, it became obvious that, as George Costanza once put it on 'Seinfeld' , 'there had been significant shrinkage.'

To make matters worse for Al, he didn't subscribe to the rather new male trend of grooming his bush, and as a result, in front of 20,000 fans, I saw what appeared to be a sparrow's egg peeking out of a vulture's nest. A small family of Koala bears could have lived in there.

Part of me wanted to put an end to it. Bob wasn't just administering a simple suplex. He was holding him up there. For seconds..maybe ten of them. Al was trying to pull his singlet back over, but Bob was just too strong. It was almost as if every workout suffered through and every fourteen egg-white omelet ever ingested had led him to this one moment. At that instant Bob was sporting perhaps the biggest smile of his entire miserable life.

Al's body finally crashed to the canvas. I looked to see his expression, which I was sure would be one of fury. Instead, he was laughing. If he had seen things from my vantage point, I'm not sure he would have been.

# ¿ Mar 26, 2011 07:52

Red: Apr 15, 2003; Yeah, great at getting us into Wawa.

Shawn had a lot of underrated matches you should see for various reasons:

No Punching Match vs. Rick "The Model" Martel, SummerSlam 1992: Shawn and Rick were in a sort-of feud over the services and affections of Sensational Sherri, but since they were both egotistical heels, they came up with a "NOT IN THE FACE, NOT IN THE FACE" stipulation. The match itself is just fine, but the theatrics and the stipulaton make it pretty entertaining. Simple heat-getting ploys like the psychology used here, in combination with Shawn's ringwork, is what made him into a star.

vs. Vader, SummerSlam 1996: Originally, Vader was supposed to go over, I've read - but Shawn nixed that, and instead, we got a pretty good match, and a very interesting finish. Vader wins by count-out, but Cornette convinces Shawn to re-start the match. Vader wins again, by DQ, but Cornette again draws Shawn back in. Finally, Shawn puts Vader away with chin music.

vs. Sycho Sid, Survivor Series 1996: In MSG, Shawn gets a negative reaction, and Sid goes over - in what would be Sid's best singles match ever (which probably isn't saying much). It was very surprising at the time, and the role reversal for both guys was interesting to watch. It also led to Jose "Super Sock" Lothario being removed from Shawn's side.

vs. Owen Hart, In Your House: Rage in a Cage 1996: Shawn had just won the 1996 Royal Rumble, against medical advice in regards to a (kayfabe) concussion. He put up his WrestleMania XII title shot, but, of course, we all know he went on to face Bret.

vs. The British Bulldog, Davey Boy Smith at One Night Only 1997: Shawn was several months into D-X at this point, and he was in the main event against Bulldog in September 1997 - in the first-ever British pay-per-view. The match was for the Bulldog's European Title, and even though Davey was technically a heel at that point, he was a face in the UK. Looking at the political underside of the match, it really paints Shawn as a scumbag, but the match is still great, and the finish had a ton of heat.

Casket Match vs. The Undertaker, Royal Rumble 1998 This was Shawn's second to last match before retiring for several years, and his landing on the casket was what put him into retirement (in addition to years of bumps). The match itself was great, and had some great visuals and psychology. The schtick here is that Taker and Kane had just "re-united", and now UT had backup to deal with D-X and their (for some reason I can't remember) cronies, Los Boricuas.

# ¿ Apr 10, 2011 12:45

Red: Apr 15, 2003; Yeah, great at getting us into Wawa.

I completely forgot! You should definitely see The Rockers take on The Legion of Doom for the tag team titles. It's a fantastic David vs. Goliath-type match, and the outcome of the match leads up to Marty and Shawn's confrontation in Brutus Beefcake's Barber Shop. I want to say it was on a taping of WWF Superstars in 1991.

Another fun match is:

with "Stone Cold" Steve Austin vs. The Legion of Doom, Raw during Summer 1997: Shawn and Steve were tag team champions who couldn't stand each other, but worked surprisingly well together. Both hated The Hart Foundation, and neither wanted to lose their tag team belt, even if they had to work together. They take on the LOD in one of the last matches I can remember where the Road Warriors seemed credible, and could hold up their end of the match.

(sorry for the consecutive post, my work blocks the Edit button)

# ¿ Apr 10, 2011 13:28

Red: Apr 15, 2003; Yeah, great at getting us into Wawa.

El Duke posted:

I love this match, because the heat is insane and the story they tell throughout the match is amazing. It's also one of the shittiest things Shawn ever did in his politicking, of which there are many. So it's hard to enjoy, but it's still a really great match, in a bubble.

And yeah, those are all really great, generally hidden matches of Shawn's that I like to varying degrees, so good list. Like I said, if I was going comprehensive, my list would have probably doubled, and included a lot of stuff like this. I almost included the Vader match anyway. (Also the interesting finish to that match is just more Shawn politics bullshit, really.)

Also, Survivor Series 96 is a pretty great PPV top to bottom if anyone is looking for something to watch.

Also, for another hidden Shawn classic, take a look at Shawn/Austin v. Owen/Bulldog from Raw in 97. It's Shawn's in ring return after "losing his smile" (I think?) and is a really great tag match that plays to both Austin and Shawn's styles. Plus it solidifies Austin's character even further: after he and Shawn win, winning the titles, he grabs a belt and starts to leave. Shawn starts getting his rear end beat by the entire Hart Foundation; Austin looks, sees this, then sees an injured Bret, all alone at the top of the ramp. Austin has priorities, and #1 was beating Bret's rear end; saving Shawn was around priority #732.

Reminds me of the match Austin had with Bret, with a Hart Foundation member handcuffed to each ring post, outside the ring. Austin would knock Bret down, then do a lap around the ring, hitting each Hart.

Somewhere, I had a tape with a Raw match featuring Shawn vs. Yokozuna (while Yoko was under Jim Cornette). The match was short, but super entertaining - featuring Shawn getting Yoko's attention by slapping his rear end.

If I recall correctly, Shawn and Diesel had a few decent matches with The New Headshrinkers (Seone and Fatu, I think).

And personally, I felt like a lot of the Rockers' WWF matches were pretty formulaic, and not too many stood out. I don't think it's their fault, necessarily - just asked to tone it down in favor of LOD/Harts/etc. They usually got a free pass for PPV matches, and SNME, though, and brought the goods, just not on "free" TV - however, they have a good little match with Demolition from a July 1990 SNME, with a great ending. That one's on YouTube.

I never liked any of Shawn's matches with Double J, though - they never did it for me. They didn't seem to have any real chemistry.

# ¿ Apr 10, 2011 15:40

Red: Apr 15, 2003; Yeah, great at getting us into Wawa.

http://www.rspwfaq.com has great reviews of shows, and opinions on wrestling news, as well as some UFC. However, I can only vouch for stuff written by Scott Keith.

http://wrestling.insidepulse.com and http://www.411mania.com/wrestling aren't bad. 411 has a lot of the underline-direct link poo poo, though.

I'd like to know what happened to Eric Szulczewski, though.

# ¿ Apr 11, 2011 06:29

Red: Apr 15, 2003; Yeah, great at getting us into Wawa.

Huh. I had no idea goons disliked Scott Keith. Is it because of the turkey neck?

I always liked him because he was funny, knew a lot about wrestling in general, and generally favored the wrestlers I liked (Bret, Benoit, Jericho, and so on). His actual play-by-plays were pretty whatever, but I usually agreed with his star ratings, except for occasions where he went over the top with his favorites (IYH: Canadian Stampede, for example).

He pretty much quit on weekly reviews of WWE when they put the belt on JBL, but has still maintained reviews of monthly pay-per-views, except for the occasional show.

I don't follow the UFC or MMA at all, so I'm kind of in the dark there.

# ¿ Apr 11, 2011 08:48

Red: Apr 15, 2003; Yeah, great at getting us into Wawa.

I've never even glanced at his books (why would anyone? all his stuff is online for free), but heard about the ridiculous errors, and chalked it up to publisher editing.

RSPWFAQ.com used to be unreadable until they assigned each of the writers an actual account - every post was by labeled as being by Scott, whether it was or not (it usually wasn't).

# ¿ Apr 11, 2011 09:01

Red: Apr 15, 2003; Yeah, great at getting us into Wawa.

Endorph posted:

... What?

"Hey, Scott, bro! This is a pretty good, accurate book!"
"Yeah, thanks."
"But we're gonna need to edit it so that it's wildly inaccurate."
"What? Why?"
"See, I got a bet with that cute guy down in public relations that I can edit this into something so inaccurate that it loops around and becomes truth, changing the very fabric of reality."

Yeah, not quite. When I heard it had errors, I assumed the editors did things like "Rick Flare". It wasn't until recently I heard about the timeline things.

# ¿ Apr 11, 2011 12:17

Red: Apr 15, 2003; Yeah, great at getting us into Wawa.

Out of all the moves to Bogart, why would Randy Orton take The Garvin Stomp?

# ¿ Apr 14, 2011 07:01

Red: Apr 15, 2003; Yeah, great at getting us into Wawa.

Minidust posted:

Goldust pretty much just breathes heavily and talks in wacky voices sometimes. He wears a weird costume and crazy makeup. Also he went on a date with that Cherry Bomb girl and married Askana. He's not a gay character he's just a strange dude. As Dusty Rhodes said "I raised some weird kids."

When Goldust first appeared, it was in vignettes where he spoke in a feminine voice, with vague, bizarre lingo, and he constantly felt himself up. In the ring, he was the same way. He groped other wrestlers, wore outlandish, glittery, form-fitting costumes, and had a wig and a feathered robe. He sent Razor Ramon love letters and a stuffed bear. When they finally met in the ring at the '96 Royal Rumble, Goldust continually kept his distance, acted hurt if Ramon struck him, and continually groped him. Back in the mid-90s, the average fan of the WWF was still an 18-35 conservative white male, and Vince believed most of them thought gay people wore assless leather chaps and feather boas, and would accost any heterosexual male given the chance.

They never actually started to change the character and tone it down until GLAAD reps met with young children focus groups, and asked the kids why they thought he (Goldust) was one of the bad guys: "Because he's gay.", they said.

After that, it was "revealed" to have all been an act, mindgames, to mess with Ramon and get the Intercontinental Title away from him. Goldust then became a character that quoted films. He occasionally overstepped the sexual boundaries - by taunting Ahmed Johnson (an angle that backfired on Goldust - his mouth-to-mouth "resuscitation" of Ahmed woke him up, pissed him off, and got Goldust pinned; all part of the storyline, of course).

They finally ended the whole homosexual undertone of the character in a weird angle with Jerry Lawler, who actually asked Goldust, "You're gay, right?", with the word gay bleeped out. Dustin yelled, "NO!" in a pretty masculine voice, and punched the King out. A lot of parents' groups complained about Goldust's apparent sexual advances and his possible effect on impressionable young boys. They also really had an issue with Mankind, for various reasons.

I've always assumed, but never seen it confirmed, that Goldust was named for the Gold Dust Trio: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_Dust_Trio

# ¿ Apr 14, 2011 17:08

Red: Apr 15, 2003; Yeah, great at getting us into Wawa.

Minidust posted:

Oh I am more than familiar with the evolution of the Goldust character. I was there for all that. I was just writing from the perspective of a person who just knew him from like 2008 onward. A new fan would have no idea about all the old gay stuff, and his current character wouldn't make a person jump to that conclusion.

No, definitely not. The current Goldust is really just a colorful clown. Santino with more makeup and less accent.

I went on YouTube and checked out his match with Bret the night after beating Ramon for the I-C belt. I completely forgot the fans chanted "human being" at Goldust for a long time.

Red fucked around with this message at 17:45 on Apr 14, 2011

# ¿ Apr 14, 2011 17:42

Red: Apr 15, 2003; Yeah, great at getting us into Wawa.

Have you guys ever written to Lance Storm for his Q&A? He just posted his latest edition: http://www.stormwrestling.com/041611.html Two of my questions were answered:

quote:

Q: I've always been a real fan of Genichiro Tenryu - but I live in the states, so my opportunities to see him are pretty sparse. You've always spoken very highly of him as an employer. Is that because he's *that* great to work for, or is there some xenophobia to deal with when it comes to dealing with Japanese promoters?

A: I openly bury Atsushi Onita as an employer. My praise for Tenryu is because he is a great man, a great worker, and a great boss.

Q: Between your time in WCW and the WWF/E, which had better travel conditions (which of the two gave you better per diem, booked lodging for you, etc.)?

A: As far as travel conditions I had a much better deal in WCW. My WCW contract covered my rental car and hotel. They were booked for me and paid for. I would get a FAX every Thursday with my weekend Itinerary, airline schedule, rental car, and hotel info. It was awesome. In WWE I had to take care of all of that myself.

The following was ignored:

quote:

- Did the WWE start phasing out the classic heel manager mouthpieces (Jimmy Hart/Jim Cornette/Paul Heyman/Bobby Heenan), or is it just that there hasn't been any real manager types come up through the system? I've gotten the feeling the WWE wants individuals to be able to stand and entertain on their own. Though, Michael Cole seems to be a good fit for Jack Swagger, so maybe the trend will come back around.

He provides some good detail here and there, but sometimes he's rather vague, and even drops a "Who knows?". He doesn't seem like the type who's covering his rear end, but seems annoyed by a question - but then, why even post it in the first place?

# ¿ Apr 17, 2011 12:43

Red: Apr 15, 2003; Yeah, great at getting us into Wawa.

Tarasenko Tank posted:

Excluding Sin Cara, Who in the WWE roster has still yet to win a title?

Assuming you're speaking only WWE active belts, among the men:

Evan Bourne
Alex Riley
Alberto Del Rio
Brodus Clay
Yoshi Tatsu
Jimmy Uso
Jey Uso
Jerry Lawler
Husky Harris
Michael McGillicutty
Mason Ryan
Michael Tarver
Skip Sheffield
Tyler Reks
Trent Barreta
Edit: Chris Masters (I thought he was a tag champ at some point)
JTG (also thought Cryme Tyme held the tag titles for a cup of coffee - turns out they only stole Legacy's belts)

Red fucked around with this message at 22:44 on Apr 17, 2011

# ¿ Apr 17, 2011 22:34

Red: Apr 15, 2003; Yeah, great at getting us into Wawa.

MassRayPer posted:

When did JTG win gold?

I swore he had a tag team belt at one point, and I had to look it up - he and Shad just stole Legacy's tag team titles for a short time. I also forgot they became a sort of backup to John Cena.

# ¿ Apr 17, 2011 22:49

Red: Apr 15, 2003; Yeah, great at getting us into Wawa.

Tarasenko Tank posted:

Was Shane-O-Mac a good wrestler back in the day when he was taking crazy-rear end bumps?

He wasn't really a wrestler, he was just a guy that got his rear end kicked, and got in a few crazy dives and bumps to keep up.

That said, his match with Kurt Angle at King of the Ring 2001 is fantastic. The story was that Kurt was trying to win the tournament, and Shane kept interfering in his matches, trying to keep his matches going, so as to tire Kurt out for their match later in the night. By the time they met, Kurt had had to face Christian (he beat him) and Edge (he lost, making Edge king), and he was pissed by the time he got in the ring with Shane. It's a garbage match, but it's a great one. The only downsides were that their match made the KotR tournament look minor by comparison, and Kurt hosed up his back and face in the match.

# ¿ Apr 25, 2011 22:55

Red: Apr 15, 2003; Yeah, great at getting us into Wawa.

Once upon a time, I remember reading Matt Hardy, Shane/Gregory Helms and Chris Jericho were in a cab, or something, got into a fight, the cops were called, and Matt Hardy ran away.

What exactly was that all about, and how were each of those guys affected by the incident? Most of what pieces I've found online are pretty vague.

# ¿ Apr 29, 2011 05:57

Red: Apr 15, 2003; Yeah, great at getting us into Wawa.

How the hell is Paul Heyman only 45?

# ¿ May 1, 2011 02:52

Red: Apr 15, 2003; Yeah, great at getting us into Wawa.

Who is this guy?

# ¿ May 3, 2011 00:53

Red: Apr 15, 2003; Yeah, great at getting us into Wawa.

ChampRamp posted:

Alex Koslov

Wikipedia says he's signed to a WWE developmental deal. Why isn't he in a communist tag team with Vladimir?

# ¿ May 3, 2011 00:57

Red: Apr 15, 2003; Yeah, great at getting us into Wawa.

Tyma posted:

I always thought that it was the Rock Bottom that completely knocked people out, and then The People's Elbow was just a stupid gesture that Rock did to show off, because he could afford to?

I vaguely remember early heel Rock doing The People's Elbow, and getting scalded by the commentary team, because he was just wasting time and showing off, because doing something like that was never actually going to win him a match.

I think he used to do it mid-match, and get a 2-count at best, and then finish the match off later by pinning them straight after the Rock Bottom? I think he only started using the two moves together once he turned face, to get a mega-pop at the end of each match?

The People's Elbow has a few rules:

- It's more flash than smash, but can still be effective, especially at finishing off jobbers, or eliminating people in Survivor Series matches.
- A People's Elbow executed using a chair is devastating.
- The Elbow is usually a precursor to The Rock Bottom, and is rarely used as a match-finisher. Same for The Sharpshooter. Think of The Elbow as a 'going home' move, much like Rey Mysterio's 619.

Originally, the move had no name - it was later named by D-Lo Brown, who was on commentary during a Rocky match.

# ¿ May 5, 2011 14:36

Red: Apr 15, 2003; Yeah, great at getting us into Wawa.

Somewhere along those lines, I was going to ask: What about wrestling psychology really bugs you?

For me...

Restholds in tag team matches
If you're tired, just tag out. It bugs the poo poo out of me when someone throws on a chinlock. Just tag out, christ. The only exception is when someone uses something like an abdominal stretch, and their (heel) partner helps them.

Stalling
Memphis heel crap? Besides his awful promos, one of the main reasons Jeff Jarrett didn't get over to WWF fans in the 90s was because he loving stalled every match. It's the sort of thing that quickly turns good heel heat into "oh gently caress this match" heat. The only people who should stall are celebrities/non-wrestlers, and ... maybe a small heel facing a monster face? Even then, keep it short.

Selling for celebrities/non-wrestlers
Treating Lawrence Taylor like an equal nearly destroyed Bam Bam Bigelow's career. "Matches" involving Jay Leno, Dennis Rodman, David Arquette, and so forth have largely been abortions. The last celebrity who was properly booked? Drew Carey - he poo poo himself when Kane got in the ring, and ran like hell.

Who was the model who got in the ring with Jeff Jarrett during his WWF "I hate women" phase? She sold his figure four like she had a headache.

Non-wrestlers should never be used to do anything but put over the real worker. Anything less, and it hurts the worker.

Jobbing in the Royal Rumble
The Royal Rumble has gotten ridiculous in the last few years. The average low midcarder lasts probably 90 seconds before Cena, Orton or HHH tosses them over the top like a beer can. Why even bother advertising "30 Superstars in one ring" when it's really about the main eventers? No one's been elevated recently by the Rumble but Del Rio, and he's the first to be given a big push by it since possibly Batista. It's just another chance for Cena to steamroll people and have a dominant run. Even when Cena got tossed by Miz this year, he threw a big pouting fit.

Really, logic dictates that chance (the draw) and physics (being able to hang on to a rope), along with size, should affect a wrestler's chances in the Rumble match. But nope, JTG gets thrown out of the ring after about 8 seconds every year.

The Royal Rumble used to be my favorite PPV of the year, but the last few Rumbles have been so predictable, and so anti-midcarder, that they've just become frustrating to watch. Now it's all built around a superman run by a main eventer, surprise entrants, the "OMG HOW WILL THEY ELIMINATE GREAT KHALI, HE'S SO HUGE", and the final four main eventers left at the end. Imagine if Evan Bourne found himself lasting until the end, and just misses eliminating the eventual winner. Even though he didn't win, he looked like a champ. Or hell, surprise everyone by having a shocking winner. I think part of the solution to improving the match is removing the shot at WrestleMania - especially since the stipulation doesn't really mean main eventing, since Alberto Del Rio curtain-jerked.

Back-up Referees
If Triple H gets pissed at Mike Chioda, and pedigrees him, and Jack Doan runs down the ramp to take over, logically, the first thing Doan should do is DQ him. Doan obviously saw Chioda go down on a monitor back-stage, or, at the very least, was told by Vince or someone else to get out there, because the ref got knocked out by HHH. Yet, I've seen the back-up run in, and help count the pinfall in favor of the guy who just decked the ref.

The moveset/five moves of doom
By now, anybody with DVR who's about to wrestle John Cena should be able to counter all of his moves easily. He knows less than ten moves. Shouldn't anyone with technical skill be able to reverse anything he does?

# ¿ May 9, 2011 06:21

Red: Apr 15, 2003; Yeah, great at getting us into Wawa.

Captain Charisma posted:

Also nobody has ever been elevated by being in the Rumble for a long time. Early on the record was held by both Rick Martel and Greg Valentine and well...

See: Benoit, 2004 and Diesel, 1994. Also, possibly Backlund, 1993.

# ¿ May 9, 2011 06:40

Red: Apr 15, 2003; Yeah, great at getting us into Wawa.

El Duke posted:

Benoit won the Rumble in 2004. Diesel eliminated seven people in 1994, tying the current record. These are the things the elevated them, not how long they were in there. Also Diesel was only in there for 17 minutes.

I always felt that part of Benoit's elevation was lasting the entire Rumble.

Huh. Diesel cleared and owned the ring for a while - I had thought he'd been in there over half an hour.

# ¿ May 9, 2011 06:51

Red: Apr 15, 2003; Yeah, great at getting us into Wawa.

Satire Forum Mom posted:

Is there a single thing that Vince ever did that shows him to be a good promoter?

Every story I hear makes him out to be Monty Burns-level insane. The amount of huge draws he almost passed up on/ruined because they were too small boggles my mind. Has he done anything right besides being extremely lucky to inherit a hot territory from his dad and then gobble up the other territories from guys who must have been dumber than rocks?

This sounds like a loaded question, but I really have never heard of Vince finding a good talent and then pushing them and sticking with them. It's always "this guy can't work/draw/be seven feet tall," and then the Brets and Shawns and Foleys and Austins always have to go through a million hoops that they would never bother with if Vince weren't the only game in town.

Well, first of all, Vince still sees wrestling as a carnival sideshow business - which is why he dislikes the association. ESPN, Versus, Fox Sports, whoever, all see it as a goofy live-action cartoon. And why shouldn't they? For every clever 'serious' storyline the WWE comes up with, they have Santino in drag/Mae Young stripping/Kiss My rear end Club.

When it comes to business, though, Vince mostly seems pretty sharp. WCW hemorrhaged money on production, (guarantee) contracts, music, live acts, guest stars, and on and on. Plus, they blew big-money matches on TV.

So, as far as business goes, Vince has enough to brag about :

- He basically admitted that wrestling wasn't a real sport, which got him out of paying licensing fees and what have you to state athletic comissions. UFC and boxing still have to pay these, however.

- He was the guy that made pay-per-view viable. He experimented with going week-to-week with Tuesday in Texas, which didn't really pan out, and instead found a workable month-to-month PPV schedule. He pretty much bullied the cable companies into the "if you show PPVs of other wrestling companies, you can't have Wrestlemania", but that worked. Back then, anyway.

- Vince (and Kevin Dunn) are responsible for the level of production you see on TV. Music, lighting, costumes, sets, high definition - all pioneered by the WWF/E. Yes, I know Gorgeous George was the guy who came up with the entrances and all, but Vince and company were the first to gear wrestling for TV, not the other way around. Vince hired Jim Johnston to do in-house themes, makeup artists, costume designers, and so forth.

- It's kind of scummy, but Vince has successfully kept his employees from unionizing. Or getting health benefits. Or getting travel reimbursement aside from air fare and international travel. That may change soon, however - but it's saved him a ton of money.

- He's made WrestleMania into an event that major cities actually fight over. It usually gets around (and often above) 1 million buys.

- He bought WCW and its tape library for ridiculously cheap. Same for ECW, AWA, and on and on.

- Merchandising. Games, shirts, toys, DVDs/Blu-Rays, Rey Mysterio masks, and on and on.

- If nothing else, Vince and his cronies are good judges of talent. Throughout the years, they've plucked a lot of great talent from the territories and indies. Even if they never actually managed to push them correctly, they certainly knew which talent losses would cripple other promotions. As long as you ignore stuff like Giant Gonzalez (Gonzales?), Great Khali, and so forth.

- When someone works well, Vince puts his faith in them. He told Bret "you're the great worker, you figure it out" when Bret once asked him what he thought the match finish should be (memory escapes me, I think it was the SummerSlam '92 match). Rock, Austin and Triple H were given a lot of leeway in their promos and matches. Knowing when the hell to get out of the way seems smart to me.

That's just what comes to mind.

Just a random thought: Promoting yourself as unequaled is a good thing. I always thought it was odd that for a long time, they refused to acknowledge that any other promotion existed in the world, and for a large part, still don't. WCW/NWA had many super-events in Japan and Mexico, which the WWF experimented with in the early 90s, but they've largely avoided that. Are they missing out by not cross-promoting internationally, or should they come into Tokyo alone, promoting themselves as a bigger attractiong?

# ¿ May 11, 2011 06:27

Red: Apr 15, 2003; Yeah, great at getting us into Wawa.

DannoMack posted:

I'm not picking this out of your good post to be a dick, but I'd like some clarification on this. I thought Michael PS Hayes came up with entrance themes?

What I meant is that among professional wrestlers, Gorgeous George was a big deal when TVs first went on sale to the public. Up until George, most wrestlers looked and acted like real sportsmen, and kayfabe was presented so that most fans/marks thought it was real. George was the first to popularize the entertainment aspect of wrestling - he had a robe, a butler, and his own music. He acted and walked/worked effeminately, and crowds turned out to see the character. The referee would try to feel his boots for foreign objects, and he'd scream something like "Get your hands off me, you filthy animal!", and the fans would go nuts. Up until George, most wrestlers were just competitors, and were presented as straight athletes. George was the first real character. George used 'Pomp and Circumstance' as entrance music, but what I meant by my previous post is that Vince and his pals designed music for a wrestler, and, eventually hired mainstream(ish) music artists to do so as well. The WWF/E was also the first to come up with entrance videos for the crowd to see, which showcased a wrestler's style/appearance/character.

Anyway, back to Gorgeous George, TV stations snapped it up because pro wrestling was cheap programming, so it was easy for George and the other wrestlers to get on TV, and be presented to millions of Americans. He got name-dropped in popular culture, too. I remember him being referenced on I Love Lucy.

Vince, from the beginning, knew that television, and eventually, pay-per-view and video sales were the real moneymakers, and, were what made a promotion. As soon as he took over the WWWF, he started changing the promotion to one that was built for television. He made sure that lighting, costumes, music, camerawork, ring appearance/placement, and so on was all optimized for the home viewer. He knew securing national broadcasting was what would make him successful, and that pay-per-view would be what made him rich.

Most of the other territories that collapsed couldn't (or wouldn't adapt) to new technology, or creating new stars, instead relying on older veterans that had made them money years ago. I'd really theorize that most of the dead promotions did themselves in, and Vince just signed away the young guys they ignored.

# ¿ May 11, 2011 08:18

Red: Apr 15, 2003; Yeah, great at getting us into Wawa.

LordPants posted:

George came out to the theme from 2001 iirc (What ever its proper name is).

Hayes was the first to come out to rock music.

... I think...

The 2001: A Space Odyssey theme you're thinking of is "Also sprach Zarathustra", which was used by Ric Flair for most of his career.

Red posted:

George used 'Pomp and Circumstance' as entrance music

And,

LordPants posted:

Hayes was the first to come out to rock music.

... I think...

Plenty of wrestlers came out to music before Hayes, and I think it'd be impossible to prove Hayes was the first to come out to rock, especially with the whole Rock'n'Wrestling thing going on a the same time - Hulk Hogan came out to Survivor's 'Eye of the Tiger', and Junkyard Dog used 'Another One Bites the Dust'.

Maybe you were thinking Hayes was the first wrestler to record his own music? Nope - The first to record their own music was Freddie Blassie, with "Pencil Neck Geek" (and another less-popular song I'm forgetting), and he later had a full album in the early 80s. Although I don't know if Blassie used it as entrance music...

# ¿ May 11, 2011 11:28

Red: Apr 15, 2003; Yeah, great at getting us into Wawa.

Captain Charisma posted:

Uh the Freebirds outdate both of those by like 5-6 years

Hm, that's true, according to a quick Google search. Didn't Lawler use Elvis music during that time, though?

# ¿ May 11, 2011 12:10

Red: Apr 15, 2003; Yeah, great at getting us into Wawa.

Who is this?:

# ¿ May 12, 2011 16:55

Red: Apr 15, 2003; Yeah, great at getting us into Wawa.

KildarX posted:

=D

For emphasis.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMAWryPSueY

Somehow, I just knew that Joanie Laurer would be completely devoid of rhythm.

# ¿ May 20, 2011 16:26

Red: Apr 15, 2003; Yeah, great at getting us into Wawa.

I wonder if any of the women who had the fake miscarriages actually had one in real life.

# ¿ May 26, 2011 11:42

Red: Apr 15, 2003; Yeah, great at getting us into Wawa.

Grendels Dad posted:

Are there any good Snitsky matches? Any, at all?

Yes, if you count the 2005 Royal Rumble.

# ¿ May 26, 2011 11:55

Red: Apr 15, 2003; Yeah, great at getting us into Wawa.

Grendels Dad posted:

Was that the one where he murdered Paul London?

Yes - one of my favorite Rumble spots/bumps, too. It's up there with the Taka head bounce.

# ¿ May 26, 2011 16:49

Red: Apr 15, 2003; Yeah, great at getting us into Wawa.

Flameingblack posted:

Why don't they just show the regular entrance in full screen, and a smaller, picture-in-picture of the wrestling ring until the Superstar gets to the ring?

They used to, in the 80s/early 90s. Check out the Royal Rumble mode of WWF WrestleFest on YouTube.

# ¿ May 27, 2011 02:54

Red: Apr 15, 2003; Yeah, great at getting us into Wawa.

LividLiquid posted:

My wife's out of town, I have a half-gallon of whiskey, this is my only night off for the next three weeks and I want to watch some legendary wrestling from 1997 or later. What should I watch?

Edit: Oh, and 7-alarm wings. It has to go along with the most painful chicken wings in the greater Seattle area. Seriously. I'm basically eating pepper spray here.

*King of the Ring 2001: Street Fight - Kurt Angle vs. Shane McMahon
*Fully Loaded 2000: WWF Title Match - The Rock(c) vs. Chris Benoit
*Vengeance 2001: Hardcore Title Match - The Undertaker vs. Rob Van Dam(c)
*In Your House: Final Four: Final Four Match for vacant WWF Title - Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker vs. Vader
*SummerSlam 1997: Intercontinental Title Match - Owen Hart(c) vs. Steve Austin

# ¿ May 28, 2011 06:41

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 17:59

Red: Apr 15, 2003; Yeah, great at getting us into Wawa.

In the early part of Benoit/Rock, between Benoit's gutwrench-gutbuster and Shane elbowing Rocky while he's under the ropes, what are the fans chanting?

It sounds like LETS GO WRESTLING ( :psyduck:

??) or maybe even LETS GO BENOIT, but I can't make it out.

# ¿ May 28, 2011 07:38

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > The Hammer House: Stinger Splash Zone > Wrestling Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread - "ASK THEM! >:("

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