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I recently graduated from a mechanical engineering technology program here in a Canadian college - its something akin to a B.Tech in the US. Above a associate's/technician, but not able to become a P.Eng (Canadian PE equivalent) without significant obstacles. I wanted to continue on to get my B.Eng after, but due to covid and family issues I had to accept that I needed to go back to work and couldn't afford 2 more years of school. I was really disappointed in myself, when I got my diploma I actually almost ripped it up... it meant nothing to me, less than nothing actually. I felt like I failed, like I dropped out of school, having only made it 3 out of 5 of my planned years, and with no bachelors in hand. Thankfully I got an amazing job with an automation company designing robots and automation cells and make more than some of my actual engineer friends. There are 5 people on the engineering team here (small company) and not one has a B.Eng, let alone P.Eng. I still feel a bit of a pang of disappointment in the lack of prestige of not being able to "legally" call myself an engineer but I've stopped correcting people since most non-engineers don't understand the difference even when I explain it to them. For most people it boils down to "ah, you just didn't pay more for school" and honestly they're not far off. I understand it varies in the US but here, "engineer" is a highly protected title. But the thing is, is the definition of "engineering" work is purposely vague. In our industry, because of the removal of the human element in automation, we get away with none of us being engineers, even though we all do what is clearly engineering work. Machine design, motion and stress analysis, simulation, etc. My experience is particular to Ontario but yeah, want to echo that unless your field requires it, the value of being a Professional Engineer seems to lower every passing year, broadly speaking.
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Feb 19, 2021 18:35
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hot cocoa on the couch posted:My experience is particular to Ontario but yeah, want to echo that unless your field requires it, the value of being a Professional Engineer seems to lower every passing year, broadly speaking. I wind that many more folks in Canada get the P.Eng in disciplines that don't in the US. Usually it commands a lot more money (PE or P.Eng) but again it depends on the field.
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Feb 19, 2021 20:44
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I did it because I’m a tryhard. And now I can stamp my own groverhaus!!!
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Feb 19, 2021 21:04
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So after 10 years as an EE in automation and robotics, I'm finally getting out. I guess I've been out for a while. I'm a tall good looking white person so of course ever job I have wants to bootstrap me into a management position which is getting pretty annoying. The pay isn't much better and the stress is way higher. Hoping this next gig will be my last one. It's kind of sales adjacent for a ginourmous automation company. But not customer facing. Sort of in between product management and business development. At least the pay is much higher and a sole contributor role so hopefully I can hide out here until I die alone.
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Feb 19, 2021 21:24
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I work in power distribution and FE is almost always a pre-req. It doesn't actually confer real status, I think employers in this field are more "we want proof you actually can do engineering work." And yeah always take it during school, early as you're allowed since the later senior classes usually are less relevant to testing material (which focuses on 100-200 level stuff mostly).
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Feb 19, 2021 21:51
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DaveSauce posted:Honestly I can't say I regret not taking the FE. But I'm in CompE/EE so it's nearly meaningless, plus I was focused on getting the hell out of there so taking time to add the FE on to my list of poo poo to do was a non-starter. They told us once or twice to take it before graduating, but also said that we probably wouldn't need it. That said, if I had to take the FE now I would be completely and utterly screwed, so if you're going to take the FE do it ASAP. I can corroborate this by saying I was an EE major with a focus in power systems and getting the PE only became an incentive once I made a career switch to design consulting for water/wastewater. I haven't had to stamp once since I got my license 3 years ago, but the letters after my name have indeed given me clout in my day-to-day operations (in that the CivEs and clients I work with take me more seriously) and personal career progression (I got a substantial on-the-spot raise for passing and eventually parlayed that into a salary jump in a new position that I'd not have been able to negotiate otherwise). If you're not dealing with public services though I can't imagine it'd ever be required or even asked of you.
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Feb 19, 2021 22:10
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Basic Poster posted:So after 10 years as an EE in automation and robotics, I'm finally getting out. I guess I've been out for a while. I'm a tall good looking white person so of course ever job I have wants to bootstrap me into a management position which is getting pretty annoying. The pay isn't much better and the stress is way higher. hell yeah let's leave engineering together!
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Feb 19, 2021 23:28
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Re: PE Chat I worked commercial aerospace for about ~8 years and I think I only met one person that had their PE license when I saw it on their email signature and I'm not even sure it was required for the job he was doing. I remember asking around at the beginning of my career if going for a PE was a necessary and I got a lot of "only if you want to" and "wouldn't hurt" which I assumed was the nice way of saying "don't waste your time". All my friends from school that actually went into the civil sector 100% all have their PE licenses though, which was made clear in all of our classes in school so it's not unexpected.
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Feb 21, 2021 16:49
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Take the FE/PE. Some companies gate promotions behind it for various reasons. Its better to have it and not need it than vice-versa.
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Feb 27, 2021 00:45
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I don't know anyone in aerospace with a PE, been doing this for almost 8 years now. Don't think I'll be going for it anytime soon, either.
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Feb 27, 2021 01:47
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Lawnie posted:I don't know anyone in aerospace with a PE, been doing this for almost 8 years now. Don't think I'll be going for it anytime soon, either. Me neither but I'm starting to think we need to!
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Feb 27, 2021 01:51
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Gorman Thomas posted:Me neither but I'm starting to think we need to! Structurally aircraft are pretty great. It’s the DO software cert process and the dickhole decision makers that seek to avoid it and to downgrade the severity of changes to save money/schedule. A P.E. Doesn’t exist for that poo poo. As a former aerospace person knew two people who had PEs and neither believed them relevant to their jobs.
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Feb 27, 2021 02:33
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CarForumPoster posted:Structurally aircraft are pretty great. It’s the DO software cert process and the dickhole decision makers that seek to avoid it and to downgrade the severity of changes to save money/schedule. A P.E. Doesn’t exist for that poo poo. Yeah no amount of PE's are going to fix Boeing when they have engineers emailing each other "did we just lie to the FAA about this program?" and "yes, we did, hope they don't find out!" Turns out when the FAA delegates signature authority on changes to employees of OEM's, their interests sometimes conflict and people make bad choices. I definitely think engineers in training, especially US universities, need much more ethics and safety training than what they get.
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Feb 27, 2021 02:45
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CarForumPoster posted:Structurally aircraft are pretty great. It’s the DO software cert process and the dickhole decision makers that seek to avoid it and to downgrade the severity of changes to save money/schedule. A P.E. Doesn’t exist for that poo poo. Yeah I work on level C and D DO-178 stuff. The software cert process is uh, pretty loose. I don't want to see what it looks like at level A and B. I feel like half my job is running unit level tests on my own software changes and finding gaping holes in the test procedures/test cases that have existed for years if not decades Lawnie posted:Turns out when the FAA delegates signature authority on changes to employees of OEM's, their interests sometimes conflict and people make bad choices. I work with the the other guys in Toulouse/Hamburg, so I don't know much about Boeing/FAA culture but I couldn't believe that poo poo when I read it. Gorman Thomas fucked around with this message at 03:21 on Feb 27, 2021 |
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Feb 27, 2021 03:12
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Gorman Thomas posted:Yeah I work on level C and D DO-178 stuff. The software cert process is uh, pretty loose. I don't want to see what it looks like at level A and B. Oh yea then you def get it. I worked on mil planes though DO-178 was the SW safety spec and the safety of those/that aircraft really same down to the integrity of the safety engineers...and it so happened that all the ones I worked with would put their job on the line in a heartbeat to do what was right. It’d be easy to staff with ones who don’t though.
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Feb 27, 2021 03:15
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Lawnie posted:I definitely think engineers in training, especially US universities, need much more ethics and safety training than what they get. ... is that a thing in non-US universities? Because for me, it was "zero" of that.
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Feb 27, 2021 03:33
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When I went through university 5 years ago there was at least 2 courses on engineering ethics, 1 was a combined engineering history + ethics course in first year. The 2nd was a focused course on morals, legality and ethics talking about case studies and logical reasonings. Also did WHMIS as part of lab safety, but most safety training is so specific I don`t think you do much besides that. At the very least it should have started the safety mindset into student's minds.
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Feb 27, 2021 03:46
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mekilljoydammit posted:... is that a thing in non-US universities? Because for me, it was "zero" of that. What school did you go to and what'd you study? Civils at my school had a semester long seminar that spent a fair bit of time on ethics, safety, and the importance of being licensed, but the PE is a big deal for us.
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Feb 27, 2021 03:48
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We had an ethics course back in to 00's. It is also (or was?) on the FE.
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Feb 27, 2021 03:49
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spwrozek posted:We had an ethics course back in to 00's. It is also (or was?) on the FE. It still was in late 2017 for EnvE.
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Feb 27, 2021 03:53
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I was an ME that graduated in the mid 00s in the US.
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Feb 27, 2021 04:03
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I think I had a mandatory 1 hour class that mentioned ethics one time.
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Feb 27, 2021 04:19
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We had an ethics course that was essentially a GE, everyone had the same case studies (Tacoma Narrows, Challenger, Hyatt Regency Kansas City) regardless of their specialization. Our final paper was on the ethical considerations to consider if California finally started the high speed rail project. One of my group mates submitted 8 plagiarized pages the night before it was due, we told him to rewrite it and he somehow produced 8 pages by morning that passed the checker tool so we didn't tell the TA  .
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Feb 27, 2021 07:37
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Gorman Thomas posted:We had an ethics course that was essentially a GE, everyone had the same case studies (Tacoma Narrows, Challenger, Hyatt Regency Kansas City) regardless of their specialization. Our final paper was on the ethical considerations to consider if California finally started the high speed rail project. One of my group mates submitted 8 plagiarized pages the night before it was due, we told him to rewrite it and he somehow produced 8 pages by morning that passed the checker tool so we didn't tell the TA And he went on to develop the 737Max?
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Feb 27, 2021 14:34
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French Canadian posted:And he went on to develop the 737Max? Unfortunately it's me who has the celebratory 737Max certification mug on his desk that I took from a trash pile after covid layoffs hit
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Feb 27, 2021 17:49
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Anyone here ever transition out of a more traditional discipline into software/coding? I’m an ME who just started learning Python and other coding in my free time and I am finding it a lot more enjoyable. Would I be wasting my time getting an advanced degree in CS/software engineering (paid for by my employer, not myself), or am I better off just picking up the skills on my own?
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Mar 1, 2021 17:56
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Gin_Rummy posted:Anyone here ever transition out of a more traditional discipline into software/coding? I’m an ME who just started learning Python and other coding in my free time and I am finding it a lot more enjoyable. Would I be wasting my time getting an advanced degree in CS/software engineering (paid for by my employer, not myself), or am I better off just picking up the skills on my own? I've known multiple MEs who have gotten into coding, but more on the PLC/HMI (usually more of an EE job, it's what I do with an EE degree at least) side of things than pure computer programming. This was all just skills picked up on the job. However if your employer wants to pay for an advanced degree I don't see a lot of downside in going for it, depending on their terms for paying for it.
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Mar 1, 2021 18:23
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Gin_Rummy posted:Anyone here ever transition out of a more traditional discipline into software/coding? I’m an ME who just started learning Python and other coding in my free time and I am finding it a lot more enjoyable. Would I be wasting my time getting an advanced degree in CS/software engineering (paid for by my employer, not myself), or am I better off just picking up the skills on my own? I work for a large aerospace company and I was able to transfer into a group last year that does software development at my current company, prior to that I was doing stress/structural analysis with about ~8 years "traditional" engineering experience. I did the self-learning path with Python as well, but I also had a co-worker that is doing the MS in Computer Science path which isn't too uncommon especially if your current employer will pay for it. The only downside, if the degree really is free to you, is that it'll take a few years to actually get the degree. Is there opportunity for you to do some programming at the current job and maybe transfer into a team/position where that's the sole focus? That probably would be the fastest track to switching career paths.
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Mar 1, 2021 20:01
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Imo these days an engineer that can't program is way less useful unless you're like super genius at your core competencies. I surely wish I could program worth a poo poo. It woulda been helpful many times over...
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Mar 2, 2021 04:41
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Gin_Rummy posted:Anyone here ever transition out of a more traditional discipline into software/coding? I’m an ME who just started learning Python and other coding in my free time and I am finding it a lot more enjoyable. Would I be wasting my time getting an advanced degree in CS/software engineering (paid for by my employer, not myself), or am I better off just picking up the skills on my own? I’m a MechE undergrad that now runs a startup that has 3 devs including myself. We’re an all Python shop. If you can get an employer-paid MS in something you wanna study and the timeframe of payback is right for you, I’d say get it just because having any MS is a good thing. OTOH if you can do the job in SW you can get hired and it’s trivially easy to prove you can or can’t be posting projects to GitHub.
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Mar 2, 2021 04:51
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Gin_Rummy posted:Anyone here ever transition out of a more traditional discipline into software/coding? I’m an ME who just started learning Python and other coding in my free time and I am finding it a lot more enjoyable. Would I be wasting my time getting an advanced degree in CS/software engineering (paid for by my employer, not myself), or am I better off just picking up the skills on my own? I have an EE degree, I went from the power industry to software. Take this with a grain of salt since a lot of places will consider an EE degree similar enough to CS, but I'm going to disagree with the people telling you to get another degree, even if your employer is paying for it. I think you can do so much more with self teaching in a shorter amount of time. Within a year you could probably be in a position where you were ready for and could pass the interview for an entry level dev role. The hardest part is getting the first dev job, once you have professional software experience it's way easier to get the second job. If your employer will both pay for the degree AND move you to a dev role after that, I think that's probably worth it
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Mar 2, 2021 18:15
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Asleep Style posted:If your employer will both pay for the degree AND move you to a dev role after that, I think that's probably worth it I'd say it is pretty likely I would be able to apply for a transfer into something software based. It is probably what I would have to do for a few years either way with the whole "get your degree, but owe us X years of service in return" clause. That being said, are there any specific resources you'd recommend exploring on the self-taught route? I have picked up A LOT just by coding a rudimentary game on my own in Python.
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Mar 3, 2021 17:01
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I've used Udemy to pick up a few things if you like watching video tutorials, although you'd probably want to look at reviews to sus out the good courses. Another option is Plurasight, I don't have experience with it but companies use it for training (it's also expensive). Lately, I've been using Educative.io for some learning which is text based with interactive code windows which I find to be more productive rather than working with videos. I've also went through some of the resources here: https://teachyourselfcs.com/ like the recommended algorithms book. Although a lot of the stuff listed here won't teach you practical development skills but stuff you'd learn with in a CS degree program. Any idea what tech stack your company uses and what types of applications are being developed? The software world is pretty wide and there's a million things to learn so sometimes it's hard to figure out what to actually spend time learning. If you're trying to switch roles within your company it would of course be a good idea to learn the stuff they're actually using.
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Mar 3, 2021 17:56
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mes posted:I've used Udemy to pick up a few things if you like watching video tutorials, although you'd probably want to look at reviews to sus out the good courses. Another option is Plurasight, I don't have experience with it but companies use it for training (it's also expensive). Lately, I've been using Educative.io for some learning which is text based with interactive code windows which I find to be more productive rather than working with videos. One of my friends actually does software stuff in my program and he has been helping me learn. It seems we probably at least use Python and Github, but I'll have to ask if there are other tools I should look into.
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Mar 3, 2021 18:01
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Gin_Rummy posted:That being said, are there any specific resources you'd recommend exploring on the self-taught route? I have picked up A LOT just by coding a rudimentary game on my own in Python. I would recommend cs50 on edx as a great intro, especially with an eye toward covering some CS basics. It starts out with C, which might not be what you want, but I'm pretty sure the second half of the program is Python these days The best way to learn is doing a project that will end up being useful to you. You'll learn more from breaking your project down to the next actionable step and reading about how to accomplish that than you will following any tutorial. I found coming up with project ideas to be the hardest part, unfortunately I don't have any advice there. Sounds like you're already on track Once you have a project mostly finished, try adding unit tests to it. Think about how somebody else would use it - add build and run instructions to the README. Deploy it if it's a web app. This is great interview prep, you'll learn a lot about the tradeoffs of the design decisions you made
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Mar 8, 2021 20:35
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I am a recent mechanical engineering grad (undergrad, Dec 2020), and to be honest I kinda thought I would have a job by now but here we are. I've had one big interview (ended in a no) and a bunch of just straight "no"s, but mostly I just can't get companies to contact me back. I look on indeed and linkedin and I look for recent graduate positions where I can check off multiple requirements, tailor the resume, do a cover letter if asked and here I sit waiting. (Note: If the application only asks for a resume should I attach a cover letter? I haven't been) The two biggest strikes against me are my GPA (3.11) and lack of an internship. In my defense about the internship I was a nontraditional student (veteran) and spent my summers taking classes to graduate sooner. My goal was to do an internship my last semester but that was the summer of covid when a lot got cancelled. Lost my job at the same time so things weren't good regardless. I did work for a manufacturing shop that made grain dryers that summer and got some engineering experience so I try to highlight that. I am keeping all my job searches to within the midwest so I am not sure how constricting that is. Literally from like MN/WI down to TX is fine with me. I feel stupid but I have never had to look for a job this way so if I am doing something wrong I don't know what it is. I am working with a career counselor, but I don't think she gets a lot of STEM degrees. Should I just keep on trucking? I am all ears if anyone has some advice. Before I left school one of my instructors said it's still a rough time out there, is that true? Is there some job that isn't a "recent grad mechanical engineer" position that I could do in the mean time that isn't a complete waste of time? Like a technician position or something not retail or sales? I am just getting frustrated.
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Mar 9, 2021 22:21
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Maybe obvious question, but - have you tried DoD, or USG in general? Being a vet with a STEM degree should bump you up several notches. Check job series 08xx (all engineering) or 1515 (ORSA).
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Mar 9, 2021 22:34
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Iain posted:I am a recent mechanical engineering grad (undergrad, Dec 2020), and to be honest I kinda thought I would have a job by now but here we are. I've had one big interview (ended in a no) and a bunch of just straight "no"s, but mostly I just can't get companies to contact me back. Yep. Iain posted:Should I just keep on trucking? I am all ears if anyone has some advice. Before I left school one of my instructors said it's still a rough time out there, is that true? Yep. Getting hired totally blows; as far as I can tell being about a decade and a half further into my career is that HR is staffed by a bunch of incompetent monkeys and the only way to get hired is to bypass them via contacts or recruiters. That seems to be the only way that I can get to a position where I talk to a human being before they blow me off and ignore me. FWIW I lost my job about 6 months ago and am still looking.
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Mar 9, 2021 22:37
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Iain posted:I am a recent mechanical engineering grad (undergrad, Dec 2020), and to be honest I kinda thought I would have a job by now but here we are. I've had one big interview (ended in a no) and a bunch of just straight "no"s, but mostly I just can't get companies to contact me back. I look on indeed and linkedin and I look for recent graduate positions where I can check off multiple requirements, tailor the resume, do a cover letter if asked and here I sit waiting. (Note: If the application only asks for a resume should I attach a cover letter? I haven't been) This is the thread for you. Post your resume. Redact it if you care to. There are at least 5 or 6 managers who post daily in order to help people like you and at least 3, myself included, hire engineers (though all SW I believe). I'm a Mech E who went to a truly mediocre east coast school and graduated with a 3.005 GPA. First job out of college was at a FAANG. Being a vet is a big plus, especially if you dont mind defense. In my experience it is not a rough time to be a SW dev, but it seems to be more competitive on the supply side. The resumes I get now from new grads are MUCH better than the resumes my graduating class was pumping out. For a Mech E, one of the best things you can do is highlight how you're a "passionate" engineer. Build some cool projects. Post impressive shiny pictures to a LinkedIn. Really sell that you're a natural. Then you dont need to worry as much about GPA. You're a great engineer who served our country and makes cool stuff just for fun.
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Mar 9, 2021 22:40
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Iain posted:I am a recent mechanical engineering grad (undergrad, Dec 2020), and to be honest I kinda thought I would have a job by now but here we are. I've had one big interview (ended in a no) and a bunch of just straight "no"s, but mostly I just can't get companies to contact me back. I look on indeed and linkedin and I look for recent graduate positions where I can check off multiple requirements, tailor the resume, do a cover letter if asked and here I sit waiting. (Note: If the application only asks for a resume should I attach a cover letter? I haven't been) I conduct interviews for junior engineers at my company. Do you know how many times I've asked what their GPA is? Zero. As for an internship, we had our interns answer tech support emails. They were handed a manual about what to say, and the regurgitated it to people over the phone. It's nothing related to what we do. Who cares. They're going to ask you about what you liked about engineering, and what your favorite projects were in school. They're going to ask you what you expect you'll be doing at the company if they hire you. They'll ask you what your long term goals are. They will give you technical problems that either have no answer, or can produce an answer in the time I'm willing to wait for you to solve it. They'll ask you what technologies you're familiar with. If you're familiar with what they're familiar with, that's a huge plus. It probably won't happen, unless it's a CAD job and you know CAD. Post your resume/C.V. to job hunting sites helps. Many states have job/resume posting boards. And there's always linkedin *shutter* Most head hunting firms sscrape all of these sites. You'll get loads of head hunter calls and false leads, but you can make mistakes in those interviews, and they'll be learning experiences.
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Mar 9, 2021 23:13
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