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The fact that he just got himself into an accident that killed someone should carry much more weight than any check up. He literally just did the thing they said he won't do.
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Jun 6, 2019 19:16
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euphronius posted:He just killed your grandmother !!! I, uh, noticed. It was in an accident that can't be attributed to being too old to drive. He was waved on by a truck on a one-and-a-half-lane street and had no way of knowing somebody was coming up alongside the trucks. She was technically on the shoulder but I think still had right-of-way, but it's a scenario that I can't really use as him being too old to safely drive.
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Jun 6, 2019 19:19
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CornHolio posted:I, uh, noticed. A less-than-90-year-old person may have had the wherewithal to make the left turn slowly, stop before front of his car moved to the right of the truck (or been competent enough to not need such a wide turn as to move into the shoulder), and slowly inched forward like making any other blind left. (if I am visualizing your description of the accident correctly) He didn't have the wherewithal, and your grandma paid the price. Do you want a stranger to be next? Something Offal fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Jun 6, 2019 |
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Jun 6, 2019 19:20
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CornHolio posted:I, uh, noticed. So in addition to being 90 he is a bad driver.
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Jun 6, 2019 19:22
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Something Offal posted:A less-than-90-year-old person may have had the wherewithal to make the left turn slowly, stop before front of his car moved to the right of the truck, and slowly inched forward like making any other blind left. You can literally use that argument on anybody. Nobody should drive because accidents can happen. This isn't a debate I want to have right now. He is old and has been involved in a fatal accident but neither myself nor anybody else in the family thinks that he's unable to drive. Strangers on the internet are not going to be able to make a decent evaluation of his abilities. If nobody has any suggestions re: my original question I'll let it drop. Jiminy Christmas! Shoes! posted:So in addition to being 90 he is a bad driver. Honestly I don't know if I can even say that. He's put a million miles on more than one car (he used to be a travelling salesman) and until last week still drove pretty frequently (no further than a few states over) and this is the first accident that I can recall him having, ever. I know he hit a deer once in the sixties but that's it. CornHolio fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Jun 6, 2019 |
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Jun 6, 2019 19:23
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Old people making dangerous turns into oncoming traffic is routine thing. They can’t see, their reaction time is real slow, they get confused etc.
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Jun 6, 2019 19:25
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CornHolio posted:You can literally use that argument on anybody. Nobody should drive because accidents can happen. That... is not a logically valid response to my point. Also the analogy is wrong, that is not at all implied by what I was saying. This is part of why we have 30,000+ traffic deaths each year in the country. Self driving cars won't be here in time for your grandpa, but maybe they'll save others from people like him in the future.
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Jun 6, 2019 19:27
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euphronius posted:Old people making dangerous turns into oncoming traffic is routine thing. They can’t see, their reaction time is real slow, they get confused etc. Look. Here is the intersection.  (if the img code isn't working, look here: https://imgur.com/0XnnQs3 Jefferson is one lane but wide enough for another car to go around. We had a bad storm and there were trees down. There were tree removal trucks, a line of three of them, big trucks, that can't be seen through. He trusted the lead truck's driver (which he shouldn't have) and assumed (which he shouldn't have) that nobody would be going around them. Reaction time wasn't an issue and confusion wasn't an issue. The road has literally been an issue for some time, and they're going to restripe it (or something) in the future. It appears as though it is technically one lane each way, meaning the woman that hit him was making an illegal pass on the right. CornHolio fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Jun 6, 2019 |
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Jun 6, 2019 19:30
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CornHolio posted:Look. Here is the intersection. That is most definitely NOT a one lane street. Do you know how I know? Because there are two lights in each direction.  Someone waving you around is also NOT an endorsement that the road is clear, just that they want you to go around them. The police specifically said your grandpa was partially at fault. I think your grandpa isn't the only bad driver in your family.
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Jun 6, 2019 19:37
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I strongly agree that your grandfather should not be driving. That being said, if you absolutely must buy him a new car, I would do one of two things. Put him in a CUV since the visibility tends to be a bit better and the hip point is better for ingress/egress. The Encore is decent, get it with as much active safety poo poo as you can. If he wants bigger, there's the Envision, just don't tell him it's made in  or he might hulk out about foreigners. If he insist on sedan, Buick Regal with all the safety kit you can option on to it. Just don't tell him it's built in Ruesselsheim or whatever.PS: your grandpa is a dick, I don't really know any other way to describe it. In addition to being an unmitigated racist rear end in a top hat, he's also decided to continue to actively endanger other people after killing his own wife in a car accident. I thank God that my grandparents were smart enough and mature enough to know when they ought to hang up the keys and stop driving without any outside interference. edit: KillHour is right KYOON GRIFFEY JR fucked around with this message at 19:43 on Jun 6, 2019 |
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Jun 6, 2019 19:39
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KillHour posted:
That's... literally what I said. I did not say it gave him right of way. He made an incorrect assumption and paid the price. It is two lanes. Here is a quote, literally from the director of public works: quote:"It is two lanes," says Eric Horvath, the city's Director of Public Works, "It is striped as two lanes. It is just confusing for people cause it is way too big for two lanes." It is why she also received fault.
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Jun 6, 2019 19:41
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Look, even if I'm pretending to be charitable and say yes, this accident was absolutely not age related, it's still the right time to have this conversation with your grandpa. I don't care that he's stubborn. It's the right thing to do. Even if he's OK to drive right now, he could very easily not be OK to drive in a year, or six months, or a month, or a week. You need to have this conversation with him as family, because by the time you actually identify that he is no longer capable of driving*, you'll probably find out via him being in a terrible accident. *by the way, he is no longer capable of driving, and you just found out by him being in a terrible accident. but if you wanna do it again, power to you, friend.
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Jun 6, 2019 19:46
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I think the question is way outside the scope of this thread. Per the OP, I thought this thread was about the financial aspects of buying a car. I'm not sure if the automotive requirements for a 90 year old man who doesn't want cars made in foreign countries fits here. Maybe it would make more sense to ask in Automotive Insanity? I'm not sure they're going to tell you anything different, though.
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Jun 6, 2019 19:49
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everyone who has responded so far is an AI regular 
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Jun 6, 2019 19:50
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I'm agreeing with KYOON GRIFFEY JR on something. That's how obvious this is. But if he's going to insist on a car, you need to insist on something small with aaaaall the safety features and electric nannies money can buy.
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Jun 6, 2019 19:52
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CornHolio posted:Honestly I don't know if I can even say that. He's put a million miles on more than one car (he used to be a travelling salesman) and until last week still drove pretty frequently (no further than a few states over) and this is the first accident that I can recall him having, ever. This is not a statement supporting "he's still fine to drive." The standard story is gams/gramps was total fine, gets into a fender bender and then just keeps on piling up the accidents in rapid succession until their keys are taken away. KillHour posted:But if he's going to insist on a car, you need to insist on something small with aaaaall the safety features and electric nannies money can buy. Absolutely this.
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Jun 6, 2019 19:57
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Look, even if I'm pretending to be charitable and say yes, this accident was absolutely not age related, it's still the right time to have this conversation with your grandpa. I don't care that he's stubborn. It's the right thing to do. Even if he's OK to drive right now, he could very easily not be OK to drive in a year, or six months, or a month, or a week. You need to have this conversation with him as family, because by the time you actually identify that he is no longer capable of driving*, you'll probably find out via him being in a terrible accident. That is kind of the crux of this. Even if he hadn't mentioned an accident I don't think anyone here would be advising much different.
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Jun 6, 2019 19:58
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i hate to be a big downer because fundamentally I agree that you need the active safteiest package money can buy, but this dude hates technology. he is going to hear the little beep and see the flashing red light from the cross traffic alert and think it's some kind of illegal immigrant plot to steal his digitalin. he will promptly ignore it and pull out in to traffic and although it's unlikely he'll have a second wife to kill, it's pretty likely that the other party is going to be injured in the crash which is not good at all! the other person in his most recent accident may have been unhurt physically but i imagine it's fairly traumatizing to have killed an old lady in a car accident!
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Jun 6, 2019 20:00
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:i hate to be a big downer because fundamentally I agree that you need the active safteiest package money can buy, but this dude hates technology. he is going to hear the little beep and see the flashing red light from the cross traffic alert and think it's some kind of illegal immigrant plot to steal his digitalin. he will promptly ignore it and pull out in to traffic and although it's unlikely he'll have a second wife to kill, it's pretty likely that the other party is going to be injured in the crash which is not good at all! I have a co-worker who did this - thru no fault of her own - and it very much is! Therapy time.
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Jun 6, 2019 20:06
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:i hate to be a big downer because fundamentally I agree that you need the active safteiest package money can buy, but this dude hates technology. he is going to hear the little beep and see the flashing red light from the cross traffic alert and think it's some kind of illegal immigrant plot to steal his digitalin. he will promptly ignore it and pull out in to traffic and although it's unlikely he'll have a second wife to kill, it's pretty likely that the other party is going to be injured in the crash which is not good at all! Too bad. He doesn't get to drive a 4,000 lb hunk of  steel with a V8 strapped to the front anymore.Edit: I would force a Toyota Prius on him. Not only do they come with all that stuff, maybe he'll be disincentivized to drive a car he hates. And let's face it - he's going to pass away and someone is going to be stuck with that car. May as well get one with a good resale value. KillHour fucked around with this message at 20:18 on Jun 6, 2019 |
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Jun 6, 2019 20:12
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plester1 posted:I think the question is way outside the scope of this thread. I don't disagree. I really just want to know what's out there that's equivalent-ish to his old car and maybe about that they'd cost. He has the money to buy new but he doesn't want to spend $35k on a car. Probably more like 15-25k. It isn't a segment I'm familiar with at all.
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Jun 6, 2019 20:28
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Get your grandpa off the loving road.
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Jun 6, 2019 20:42
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KillHour posted:Too bad. He doesn't get to drive a 4,000 lb hunk of Tell him the toyota logo is a line drawing of John Wayne in a cowboy hat.
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Jun 6, 2019 20:57
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KillHour posted:Too bad. He doesn't get to drive a 4,000 lb hunk of i'm trying to reinforce the fact that even if gpa is driving an American Made car made out of pillows and a thousand airbags and protected by unicorns and benevolent spirits, he's still gonna gently caress up, and it's gonna be bad
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Jun 6, 2019 20:59
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canyoneer posted:Tell him the toyota logo is a line drawing of John Wayne in a cowboy hat. 
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Jun 6, 2019 20:59
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:i'm trying to reinforce the fact that even if gpa is driving an American Made car made out of pillows and a thousand airbags and protected by unicorns and benevolent spirits, he's still gonna gently caress up, and it's gonna be bad Yes, but we've already lost that line of argument because the OP is stubborn and insists his grandpa has the god-given right to pilot a 2 ton steel missile through residential areas. We aren't going to change his mind on that, so now we have to resort to damage control.
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Jun 6, 2019 21:02
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If he truly gives a poo poo where a car is made, it's worth mentioning that a shitload of foreign brands build their cars in the U.S. For example, here's all of Toyota's models that are built in American factories as of 2017: https://corporatenews.pressroom.toyota.com/releases/toyota+production+north+america+nearly+two+million+in+2017.htm
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Jun 6, 2019 21:24
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plester1 posted:If he truly gives a poo poo where a car is made, it's worth mentioning that a shitload of foreign brands build their cars in the U.S. He doesn't. It's racism.
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Jun 6, 2019 21:27
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KillHour posted:Yes, but we've already lost that line of argument because the OP is stubborn and insists his grandpa has the god-given right to pilot a 2 ton steel missile through residential areas. We aren't going to change his mind on that, so now we have to resort to damage control. I mean, we've had the talk. He still feels capable. Everybody else in the family feels he's OK to drive. The doctors are OK with it. It isn't that I'm stubborn, it's that literally everybody thinks he's OK to drive for the foreseeable future. Even if I disagreed, I can't take his keys away. The argument is lost because a bunch of people on the internet that don't know the guy don't think he should be driving. I don't think he has very many driving years ahead of him but he isn't ready to hang up his keys yet. KillHour posted:He doesn't. It's racism. Don't get me wrong, he's racist as gently caress. He isn't allowed over at Christmas and I limit my kid's exposure to him.
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Jun 6, 2019 21:39
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CornHolio posted:The argument is lost because a bunch of people on the internet that don't know the guy don't think he should be driving. You're the only person on the internet who can take his keys away (and you absolutely can). You just won't.
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Jun 6, 2019 21:41
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CornHolio posted:I mean, we've had the talk. He still feels capable. Everybody else in the family feels he's OK to drive. The doctors are OK with it. It isn't that I'm stubborn, it's that literally everybody thinks he's OK to drive for the foreseeable future. Even if I disagreed, I can't take his keys away. The argument is lost because a bunch of people on the internet that don't know the guy don't think he should be driving. You should consider the massive guilt you and your family would experience if he gets into another serious accident that injures or kills someone again having already been given a considerable wake up call that you ignored. Also, have you actually ridden with him while he drives?
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Jun 6, 2019 21:50
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"slow and doesn't like interstates" is not really what i think of when i think of "this guy can drive good" but w/e edit: have him drive the '91 stealth all the time, that way if he kills anyone else it's more likely to be himself
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Jun 6, 2019 21:53
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CornHolio posted:I mean, we've had the talk. He still feels capable. Everybody else in the family feels he's OK to drive. The doctors are OK with it. It isn't that I'm stubborn, it's that literally everybody thinks he's OK to drive for the foreseeable future. Even if I disagreed, I can't take his keys away. The argument is lost because a bunch of people on the internet that don't know the guy don't think he should be driving. Get him a Buick Encore. It's small and cheap, and the top line has lots of driver assist and safety packages available. If he wants a sedan, get the LaCrosse. They're not spectacular cars, but they're American and Buicks so he should be happy. Whether or not he should be driving is up to his doctors and state. I'm not going to get into that.
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Jun 6, 2019 21:55
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The obvious answer is a Tesla. That way if(when) he kills the next person he can blame the self driving car instead of himself!
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Jun 6, 2019 23:58
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Deteriorata posted:Whether or not he should be driving is up to his doctors and state. I'm not going to get into that. No..... it’s mostly up to his family. doctors don’t take away driving unless it’s legally mandated because they are very sick or disabled. This is an under appreciated point which leads to “out of sight out of mind” for many families with aging olds that continue to drive until a fatal crash. And I always dislike getting into a related interesting discussion then someone says “this is a little too off topic go somewhere else” sorry you want bland threads with repeated subjects posted by members of a dying forum Something Offal fucked around with this message at 00:26 on Jun 7, 2019 |
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Jun 7, 2019 00:22
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Something Offal posted:And I always dislike getting into a related interesting discussion then someone says “this is a little too off topic go somewhere else” sorry you want bland threads with repeated subjects posted by members of a dying forum I agree with you in principle, but this is not what I would consider an interesting discussion. I think it's stupid as hell.
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Jun 7, 2019 01:48
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Something Offal posted:No..... it’s mostly up to his family. doctors don’t take away driving unless it’s legally mandated because they are very sick or disabled. This is an under appreciated point which leads to “out of sight out of mind” for many families with aging olds that continue to drive until a fatal crash. No, it's up to the state - at least in Michigan, which I'm familiar with. Doctors or family can submit a request to the Secretary of State to require the person to come in for a full driving test - written test, eye exam, and road test. If they fail, they lose their license and that's it for them. If they pass, they're as entitled to drive as anyone else.
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Jun 7, 2019 03:14
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Deteriorata posted:No, it's up to the state - at least in Michigan, which I'm familiar with. Doctors or family can submit a request to the Secretary of State to require the person to come in for a full driving test - written test, eye exam, and road test. If they fail, they lose their license and that's it for them. If they pass, they're as entitled to drive as anyone else. Hmm alright, looks like some states are better than others. Illinois requires a license renewal + road test annually after 87 years old. https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/illinois-driving-laws-seniors-older-drivers.html I'd bet my hat OP's grandpa wouldn't be able to pass. And with that I'll drop it.  VVVVV well regardless of everything else I hope he feels better soon. Something Offal fucked around with this message at 04:24 on Jun 7, 2019 |
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Jun 7, 2019 03:17
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Something Offal posted:Hmm alright, looks like some states are better than others. Illinois requires a license renewal + road test annually after 87 years old. https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/illinois-driving-laws-seniors-older-drivers.html It appears in Indiana it's every two years. I don't know when it was renewed but he has a license right now. I'm pretty sure at least before the accident he'd have been able to pass, his vision is fine and he's sharp as hell. Right now he's laid up due to the accident.
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Jun 7, 2019 04:11
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If he's a racist prick why are you even helping him with this, his generation literally doomed the human race and we owe them nothing but the guillotine
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Jun 7, 2019 04:40
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