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Corolla/Civic are your best bet for low cost of ownership / low fuel consumption in a gasoline car without any hybridization. As a recently converted diesel truck owner, it's not that hard to find diesel. No, it's not at every station, but excluding Costco, most stations that don't have it seem to be more along the lines of "lovely old Circle K with only two pumps". The bigger issue is crowding and lack of pump availability at a given station. At this point, even though QuikTrip convenience stores are the clear and superior choice, I avoid them because they only usually have two pumps total with diesel on them, and they're often occupied - either by a brodozer, a work truck, or some dipshit in a gasser who wanted to be on the end of the fuel island. Chevron stations so far seem to be a bit cheaper, and they're never crowded. Oh, and maintenance on diesel fuel pumps seems to be highly questionable. I've come across at least one that just started drizzling fuel everywhere as soon as you picked up the handle, and a lot that are just messy. On the plus side, a 500+ mile range means it's easy to just find a couple good stations and fill up there exclusively.
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Apr 21, 2020 18:07
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sharkytm posted:More details please? Oh, I'm in the US. Texas. If all goes to plan within a year I'll be living out in the boonies and have a longer drive to work- I have a 2017 CR-V that's nice but doesn't have the greatest range compared to the 2012 Ford Focus I had until someone t-boned and totaled it. I'm definitely not going to buy new. IOwnCalculus posted:Corolla/Civic are your best bet for low cost of ownership / low fuel consumption in a gasoline car without any hybridization. Any reason you're not recommending a Yaris? Or like, an old Fiat 500? I'm leaning towards something compact. I miss how zippy that 2012 Focus was. edit: though I'm starting to wonder if I should be looking into small trucks??? this will be a second car for commuting is what I was thinking but now I'm not sure wolfs fucked around with this message at 18:48 on Apr 21, 2020 |
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Apr 21, 2020 18:33
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wolfs posted:Any reason you're not recommending a Yaris? Or like, an old Fiat 500? Yaris: Sure why not, though if you're doing long distance drives on the regular you're probably underestimating how much nicer going up a size class to the Corolla/Civic is over a Yaris/Fit. I went from a '13 CR-V to an '18 Canyon with the 2.8 Duramax and it's so much nicer on the highway that I'll gladly spend an extra 1-2MPG worth of fuel costs. Fiat 500: I mean, you want this car to run, don't you? Any fuel savings will quickly be eaten by poo poo that just breaks.
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Apr 21, 2020 18:39
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IOwnCalculus posted:Yaris: Sure why not, though if you're doing long distance drives on the regular you're probably underestimating how much nicer going up a size class to the Corolla/Civic is over a Yaris/Fit. I went from a '13 CR-V to an '18 Canyon with the 2.8 Duramax and it's so much nicer on the highway that I'll gladly spend an extra 1-2MPG worth of fuel costs. I've actively avoided negative reviews because I love FIATs and don't want the new ones to be ruined in my mind, but I mean, they're Italian. I'm going to assume aggressive rust, electrical problems, poor QC, strange engineering choices making even basic repairs more expensive, and tolerances way too tight on things that don't matter, combined with tolerances being way too loose on things that really matter, making things fall apart under their own power How accurate is that? E: Yaris is also pretty great, don't hear that wrong, but if you're bigger than 5'6", that interior gets real uncomfortable after ~30 minutes. And as good as sound deadening has gotten, you're still going to have a constant buzz and almost no power to pass on the highway with that tiny engine The Door Frame fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Apr 21, 2020 |
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Apr 21, 2020 18:45
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wolfs posted:edit: though I'm starting to wonder if I should be looking into small trucks??? this will be a second car for commuting is what I was thinking but now I'm not sure If your only shopping criteria is good gas mileage I'm not sure how small trucks would fit into the equation?
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Apr 21, 2020 18:58
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powderific posted:If your only shopping criteria is good gas mileage I'm not sure how small trucks would fit into the equation? Also this. I mean it's what I use my Canyon for the most, but I also have an edge case where I needed to buy something with a tow rating north of 6000lb, and it needed to replace said CR-V. I love it but if I had room and money I'd have rather bought a cheaper full-size truck and not given a gently caress about fuel mileage, and paired it with a Kia Stinger or something that gets good-enough mileage and just eats up highway miles.
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Apr 21, 2020 19:05
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In thinking about this it occurs to me the back of my CR-V isn't that huge (which doesn't matter right now since I live in a dense suburb and don't use the trunk for much), and it gets about 30ish mpg or higher when I drive well, so maybe that isn't as much of a commuting issue as I thought. Points taken about the Yaris and Fiat. I guess they've got less interior volume than a Focus. The reason I'm reluctant to get another Focus is that Ford stopped making them, and parts will probably dry up, right? But anyways. Trucks. I *will* have to contend with some acreage when I move, so I just glanced at truck prices and mpg ratings, and they don't encourage me. No one is making fuel efficient small trucks in the US? wolfs fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Apr 21, 2020 |
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Apr 21, 2020 19:09
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square away what you actually need in a car before you start thinking about what to buy. if you're going to have acreage that you work (and i am assuming like, five acres minimum, landscaping, vegetables/fruit trees, wood, etc) you should buy a poo poo rear end beater truck for truck stuff. work truck and commuter are not complimentary use cases. otherwise if you're a normal American home owner in a single family home rent a truck when you do your home depot runs for ~40 a pop. compact truck fuel economy is better than ever. a truck is heavier and has a larger frontal area than a car. even old compact truck fuel economy sucked rear end. my 1989 2wd 4cyl ranger got like 27mpg highway if i drove exactly the speed limit on the freeway and the wind was blowing the right direction.
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Apr 21, 2020 19:25
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parts aren't gonna dry up for the focus for at minimum a decade (ford retention policy is 8 years minimum since last use in a production car) eventually it might be hard to find some of the truly weird model specific poo poo, but ford shat out a couple hundred thousand focuses a year for like eight years and many parts were common with the Escape and Fiesta. parts are going to be all over the place, including aftermarket. some expensive strange stuff might be hard to source, like a wiring harness or specific exterior and interior trim pieces. in a decade that focus will be worth four grand. it won't be economical for you to repair anything that you would source new that you can no longer find, and if it's a weird model specific thing it's probably in your local pick n pull. now if you bought say, a Kia K900, parts availability might be an issue.
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Apr 21, 2020 19:30
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The Door Frame posted:I've actively avoided negative reviews because I love FIATs and don't want the new ones to be ruined in my mind, but I mean, they're Italian. I'm going to assume aggressive rust, electrical problems, poor QC, strange engineering choices making even basic repairs more expensive, and tolerances way too tight on things that don't matter, combined with tolerances being way too loose on things that really matter, making things fall apart under their own power Maybe that was true back in the bad old days but Chrysler owns them now.  Was your '12 Focus an auto, if so then count yourself lucky. Also do not buy another Focus.
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Apr 21, 2020 19:31
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Throatwarbler posted:Maybe that was true back in the bad old days but Chrysler owns them now. Lol that's not a positive.
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Apr 21, 2020 19:34
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Um, isn't that the other way around? Fiat bought Chrysler and then eventually merged into FCA.
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Apr 21, 2020 19:37
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New Fiats are leagues better than the bad old days but they're still not reliable at all.saintonan posted:Lol that's not a positive. it was, if you can believe it
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Apr 21, 2020 19:46
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Throatwarbler posted:Maybe that was true back in the bad old days but Chrysler owns them now. yeah it was an automatic sport lucky how? i mean it crumpled up pretty good when i got hit but it was nice to drive
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Apr 21, 2020 19:46
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wolfs posted:yeah it was an automatic sport the transmission is known for being a tremendous steaming heap of garbage such that Ford is still paying out settlements and warranty claims
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Apr 21, 2020 19:46
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If you absolutely don't want a hybrid, which is insane as the Prius is almost certainly the most reliable car in the US in every year since whenever the gen2 prius was released, another consideration is the Mazda 3. Its published numbers are not as good as the Civic, but the Civic is also a small turbo. Small turbo motors do really well on EPA tests, but if you drive with anything other than the lightest possible foot, small turbos tend to underperform economy wise. The Mazda is NA, which is generally a bit closer to real world on numbers. The 'rolla hatch has better numbers than any of them and is also NA. If you plan on owning for a long time (8+ years), a small turbo motor may have more issues than an NA motor because there is more going on. On one hand it is a Honda, but on the otherhand, we don't have a lot of older Honda turbos to compare to. The new Yaris is a Mazda 2 with an uglier face, which means it should drive very nice. It gets decent enough mileage, but as others mentioned, it gets worse mileage than the Corolla while being smaller. All discussion above is new 2020 models. The older Mazda 3 has better mileage compared to older Hondas and Toyotas, but both did a lot of catching up in the last could of years.
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Apr 21, 2020 20:01
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Throatwarbler posted:Maybe that was true back in the bad old days but Chrysler owns them now. FIAT owns Chrysler, not the other way around
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Apr 22, 2020 19:36
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Ok goons, I'm a computer toucher and not a car toucher and honestly I'm too uneducated and overwhelmed to know where to start. I've always driven a car to death then panic bought something else on the weekend. Someone point me in the right direction. Location: rural-ish Michigan, USA. Proposed Budget: 7k baseline, I'd prefer 5k. 10k if it's justifiable. Between taxes and stimulus money I have 8,800 banked, but I don't want to put down more than 3k. New or Used: Used Body Style: I don't care at all. I presume a sedan will be the cheapest. How will you be using the car?: Second vehicle to drive approximately 20 miles daily. Occasionally it may need to cart around the kids. Do you prefer a luxury vehicle with all the gizmos?): Really the only Gizmos I want is blue tooth and air conditioning / heat. I've driven two Michigan winter's without heat and I'm fed up. The current car is finally dying, but I can limp it's rear end in for a trade in. What aspects are most important to you: We're looking for a cheap second vehicle. Initially considering Focuses, but I'm open. Reliability, economy, and up front price are all primary concerns. As stated, I don't know anything about cars. Bonus points if said econocar will last 6+ years, after which it'll be the oldest's first car. Edit: I guess safety is important too but what do I know that's why I'm asking you guys. GodspeedSphere fucked around with this message at 05:04 on Apr 23, 2020 |
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Apr 23, 2020 05:00
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GodspeedSphere posted:Ok goons, I'm a computer toucher and not a car toucher and honestly I'm too uneducated and overwhelmed to know where to start. I've always driven a car to death then panic bought something else on the weekend. Someone point me in the right direction. Assuming "kids" doesn't mean more than three, a circa 2010 Prius should fit the bill.
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Apr 23, 2020 05:09
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GodspeedSphere posted:Initially considering Focuses, but I'm open. Do not buy unless you're getting a manual, or getting older than 2012. The dual-clutch automatic Ford used in the Focus and Fiesta has a deeply flawed design.
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Apr 23, 2020 06:16
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Since you are in rural Michigan, the used import market can be a bit odd. Prius will fit the bill if you can find one, but you'll probably want to be sure there's someone who can work on it nearby. IOC is correct about the Focus. The Cruze is OK as a value play, but I would try to stick with the NA 4 rather than the 1.4T. Don't buy any small-ish FCA vehicles including the Dart, 500, and 200. At about 5k in Rural Michigan would be looking at a manual Focus, and if I had to have an automatic, I'd probably look for a 1.8L Cruze.
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Apr 23, 2020 12:34
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Mostly I'm just amazed that whatever is actually wrong with that Ford DCT literally cannot be fixed. I'm used to things breaking where there is a clear solution, even if it's expensive as hell - like the Dodge 3.7/4.7 making GBS threads valve seats, Porsche IMS bearing, Honda VTEC actuator. All known problems, all have known fixes from either the aftermarket or the OEM. Nobody has figured out how to make the DCT last.
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Apr 23, 2020 15:21
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I'm strongly considering a 2020 Kona Limited with AWD. The reviews I've read have been very positive and Hyundai is usually reliable and a good value. I have a family of 5 with 3 small children, and it's roughly 50 miles for me to drive to work and back. A small crossover with good fuel economy seems to fit the bill. I have an offer on the table of ~4500 below MSRP after talking to 4 local dealerships. Hyundai seems especially desperate right now, with way more inventory and way fewer customers than necessary. Any thoughts on when dealerships will reach maximum desperation? I'm worried about a bailout or a cash for clunkers program that could prop up prices.
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Apr 23, 2020 15:31
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I think it’s gotta be some wild software and hardware combinations of factors. The transmission was designed to be inexpensive to produce since it was going in a 14k car, so I am sure that hardware and manufacturing cost reduction was a huge priority. That means lots of the components are probably stressed. It was unproven tech so nobody really knew how to design and build, unlike a conventional automatic. Then you have the software problem interacting with that as well. Even now, transmission software is still kind of a fuckup and that’s with another decade of development work and lessons learned. All the stuff you mentioned is basically hardware only.
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Apr 23, 2020 15:32
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FistEnergy posted:I'm strongly considering a 2020 Kona Limited with AWD. I would ask how small are the kids (car seats/boosters?), how often you are driving with them, and how far? Do they get along? The back is going to be cramped.
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Apr 23, 2020 15:48
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:All the stuff you mentioned is basically hardware only. Oh, yeah, I agree - but software and hardware can both be fixed, and Ford certainly tried. I can't remember the last time any car had such a uniquely unfixable component. Even the (justifiably) maligned circa-Y2K Honda V6 automatics can be rebuilt stronger than before, and they generally lasted much longer than the DCT in the first place anyway.
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Apr 23, 2020 15:48
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But the interaction between hardware and software makes things much more difficult. If you change the transmission programming to say, pre-engage the unused side of the clutch differently to improve drive-ability, you may then put additional forces and stressors on that clutch and its associated throw out bearings etc. Maybe these things are fine, but maybe you've now exceeded the original design spec for the throw out bearing such that you cause them to wear way faster. Again, the Honda transmission issues were wear and parts quality issues that affected driveability eventually. Ford problems were a whole different kettle of fish - a perfectly functional transmission with no mechanical defects would not perform correctly as perceived by the end user. I agree it's a fairly unique unfixable problem that mostly exists because Ford leadership was incompetent. For an issue of this magnitude to make it to series production is pretty unforgiveable.
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Apr 23, 2020 16:59
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Uthor posted:I would ask how small are the kids (car seats/boosters?), how often you are driving with them, and how far? Do they get along? The back is going to be cramped. They're all under 10. The back seat fit all 3 booster seats with room to spare. The middle spot is a bit cramped, but my youngest is only 4. My wife drives a Town & Country that we use for family stuff, so this would basically be a commuter vehicle for me with the option to haul everyone to the supermarket in a pinch.
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Apr 23, 2020 17:03
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Alright. I only asked cause I had my sis' kids in the back of my 3 series one time when her T&C was in the shop and it was a ride full of "she's touching me!" And there wouldn't have been a way to get all three in there with a car seat.
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Apr 23, 2020 17:40
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:But the interaction between hardware and software makes things much more difficult. If you change the transmission programming to say, pre-engage the unused side of the clutch differently to improve drive-ability, you may then put additional forces and stressors on that clutch and its associated throw out bearings etc. Maybe these things are fine, but maybe you've now exceeded the original design spec for the throw out bearing such that you cause them to wear way faster. Don't think they ever fixed the AXOD transmissions either, it was easier to just give up making minivans forever.
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Apr 23, 2020 17:43
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Forgot about that one, those were at least rebuild-able though fragile. Ford also makes a minivan it just doesn't have sliders.
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Apr 23, 2020 17:54
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https://jalopnik.com/former-ford-focus-or-fiesta-owners-may-have-a-lot-of-mo-1843043571 Well keep your address up to date with Ford because if you ever owned a Focus or Fiesta you might be getting a check in the mail.
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Apr 24, 2020 17:48
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Throatwarbler posted:https://jalopnik.com/former-ford-focus-or-fiesta-owners-may-have-a-lot-of-mo-1843043571 total payouts could reach 3 billion lmao
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Apr 24, 2020 19:23
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Is there any indication it only applies to the automatic transmission cars? I mean I know it should but...
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Apr 24, 2020 19:30
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Jack B Nimble posted:Is there any indication it only applies to the automatic transmission cars? I mean I know it should but... it absolutely does only apply to the automatic transmission cars
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Apr 24, 2020 19:44
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Does anyone know how desperate dealerships are to move cars right now? My 03 Lancer that I've ended up putting more into than I bought it for is on the verge of finally crapping out on me. My wife and I are looking at a new 2019 Kia Forte S with the premium package that's still sitting on a lot about 50 miles away. I've been talking with the dealership over the phone and they're willing to sell it, out the door price, for about 19,000 even. My last car was the first one I ever bought, so I'm definitely in over my head figuring out where there's still wiggle room - or if I should even be bothering with a leftover model. Any suggestions?
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Apr 24, 2020 21:23
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Jaramin posted:Does anyone know how desperate dealerships are to move cars right now? My experience this week shopping for a Hyundai in Ohio: take the average TrueCar MSRP discount and multiply by 1.5. Showrooms are empty, salespeople are furloughed, and the metal is piling up and starting to cost them money. This might help you narrow down the dealership desperation in your state: https://jalopnik.com/this-interactive-map-shows-how-devastating-coronavirus-1843024590
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Apr 24, 2020 22:03
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Jaramin posted:Does anyone know how desperate dealerships are to move cars right now? I tried negotiating a Lincoln MKZ hybrid down from the asking price (16000) and the dealer won't budge from 14k. Car's been on the lot since Feb, too.
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Apr 24, 2020 22:59
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I've been driving a '98 V6 Accord since 2007 and suspect at least some of the transmission issues were misdiagnosed electrical problems. I had mine replaced with a rebuilt unit and external cooler from Willow Creek Transmissions around 200k miles in 2010 and every time since that I've experienced gear slips has been about 10-15 minutes before the alternator ate poo poo.
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Apr 24, 2020 23:15
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Deteriorata posted:Assuming "kids" doesn't mean more than three, a circa 2010 Prius should fit the bill. So I found this: https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/802675853/overview/ Everything looks good to me, but then again I assume everything will look good to great because that's how it's sold.
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Apr 25, 2020 04:19
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