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Keith Atherton
Feb 7, 2006
DOES NOT RESPECT THE RUN



Slippery Tilde

Gaius Marius posted:

Having completed it, I can now recommend System Shock 2 as a certified good game that's almost as good as Deus ex, almost.

Havenít played a game with so many panicky ďoh gently caress oh gently caressĒ moments

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Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012



It's so good the inventory is good, but just clunky enough to make using it in combat terrifying. And the Goddamn sound design, those guys shuffling around apologizing as they beat me over the head with lead pipes, absolute top notch.

Not gonna lie thief and SS2 ruined most games sound design for me, I know exactly where and enemy is, how fast he's walking, what he's walking on, and which direction he's facing in those games. I have no idea how we've fallen so far.

Eason the Fifth
Apr 9, 2020


Gaius Marius posted:

Not gonna lie thief and SS2 ruined most games sound design for me, I know exactly where and enemy is, how fast he's walking, what he's walking on, and which direction he's facing in those games. I have no idea how we've fallen so far.

You're Friday here and I'm Robinson Crusoe finding a fellow man. I've learned that all the games I really enjoy have incredible sound design as a common denominator, but there's never been a game that did audio like Thief.

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk


Gaius Marius posted:

It's so good the inventory is good, but just clunky enough to make using it in combat terrifying. And the Goddamn sound design, those guys shuffling around apologizing as they beat me over the head with lead pipes, absolute top notch.

Not gonna lie thief and SS2 ruined most games sound design for me, I know exactly where and enemy is, how fast he's walking, what he's walking on, and which direction he's facing in those games. I have no idea how we've fallen so far.

I'M SOOOORRRRYYYYYY

RoboChrist 9000
Dec 14, 2006

mater dolorosa

So just decided to play this again after ages. Just downloaded the game from GOG, the DX10 thing, and the launcher.
Are there any other good and goon-approved fan-patches and/or texture packs/graphics packs that have come out in the... lord knows how many years since I last played this?

jojoinnit
Dec 13, 2010

Strength and speed, that's why you're a special agent.


RoboChrist 9000 posted:

So just decided to play this again after ages. Just downloaded the game from GOG, the DX10 thing, and the launcher.
Are there any other good and goon-approved fan-patches and/or texture packs/graphics packs that have come out in the... lord knows how many years since I last played this?

GMDX but I'm always happy to just play vanilla the way you've already got it installed, (especially if I'm trying to see what sequence breaks and accidental Paul murder sprees I can make happen).

SolidSnakesBandana
Jul 1, 2007

Infinite ammo


I agree with that guy

Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010

Don't look at me-
I'm ugly in the morning
When the headaches gone
The sun is not.
Forgot to turn the alarm
On - on






Pillbug

Yeah, like, if you havenít been playing it nonstop for the last ten TWENTY!?!? years vanilla is fine. Itís one of the best games ever made, you donít have to change much for it to be fun. I do mods if Iíve been playing it a bunch lately and want to mix things up but I would say the overwhelming majority of my playthroughs have been vanilla.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012



The thing that always gets me going back to vanilla is the lack of mantling. It just seems like it should've always been there.

Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010

Don't look at me-
I'm ugly in the morning
When the headaches gone
The sun is not.
Forgot to turn the alarm
On - on






Pillbug

Gaius Marius posted:

The thing that always gets me going back to vanilla is the lack of mantling. It just seems like it should've always been there.

There were a ton of games in the early 2000ís without mantling for some reason, it was really weird and annoying when youíd eat poo poo because you forgot this game doesnít let you do that, but that other game did.

One of the best things to happen to games was controls and world interactions like that becoming relatively standard.

Gynovore
Jun 17, 2009

Forget your RoboCoX or your StickyCoX or your EvilCoX, MY CoX has Blinking Bewbs!

WHY IS THIS GAME DEAD?!

My only real complaint about vanilla DX is how overpowered the regeneration aug is. Swimming skill and Aqualung become useless because you can swim forever by just regen-ing away the drowning damage. Heck, even the tough skin aug is eclipsed by your Wolverine-ish ability to heal bullet wounds instantly.

Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010

Don't look at me-
I'm ugly in the morning
When the headaches gone
The sun is not.
Forgot to turn the alarm
On - on






Pillbug

I feel the problem isnít that the regen aug was so good but that a lot of the other augs were kind of underwhelming. The regen aug was like ďoh, THIS is why nanoaugmentation is such a big dealĒ. Like, it could have been tuned down a little but a lot of the other augs could have stood to be buffed up.

Bar Ran Dun
Jan 21, 2006

When there were five in the bed and we all rolled over I said nothing, because I would not fall off.

Original 1.0 regen was even better. It triggered every time you turned it on immediately. So you could just rapid press the key for as much regen as you wanted for very little power use.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012



That's like popping open the Ps1 cover to regen your whole party in FF9 level abuse

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005



Bit of both on that imo. The other augs needed to do more, but regen was fully off of the rails. You could flick it on and give zero fucks as 6 guys pumping you full of assault rifle ammo did nothing.

Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010

Don't look at me-
I'm ugly in the morning
When the headaches gone
The sun is not.
Forgot to turn the alarm
On - on






Pillbug

I think regen would have worked if it had a regen cap. Like it would heal as quick before but only x amount of total HP per time period. Maybe something where if you took more than X amount of damage with it on, it would enter a cool down. That way you could still face tank a little, but not as well as a straight skin armor aug would (post buffing the armor augs) and primarily would use it for actual healing instead of as an invulnerability cheat.

goatsestretchgoals
Jun 4, 2011

in soviet russia, you shove robot

Also you can't punch people for a set period of time after activating the regen aug.

Xander77
Apr 6, 2009

Fuck it then. For another pit sandwich and some 'tater salad, I'll post a few more.




Personally, I feel like Biomod is what vanilla was meant to be all along, and there's zero reason to play unmodded. Call it the 1.1 patch, if you will.

jojoinnit
Dec 13, 2010

Strength and speed, that's why you're a special agent.


Xander77 posted:

Personally, I feel like Biomod is what vanilla was meant to be all along, and there's zero reason to play unmodded. Call it the 1.1 patch, if you will.

Minus the nerfed Dragon Tooth and exploration points, I basically agree. There was a point where I preferred Shifter to Biomod but I honestly can't remember what the differences are anymore, just that Biomod incorporated Shifter.

El_Elegante
Jul 3, 2004


Biscuit Hider

goatsestretchgoals posted:

Also you can't punch people for a set period of time after activating the regen aug.

maybe you canít, but I punch people whenever the hell I want

Xander77
Apr 6, 2009

Fuck it then. For another pit sandwich and some 'tater salad, I'll post a few more.




jojoinnit posted:

Minus the nerfed Dragon Tooth and exploration points, I basically agree. There was a point where I preferred Shifter to Biomod but I honestly can't remember what the differences are anymore, just that Biomod incorporated Shifter.
The biggest difference is that Shifter gave you xp for killing people (xp for headshotting bots was still around in the last version of Biomod I played, probably because this is a highly niche combo?)

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005



xp for kills is Anathema to Deus Ex, and makes me instantly distrust their judgement. I've not revisited the mod(s) since I saw that.

Yes I know the Jensen games have it, my point still stands.

site
Apr 6, 2007

Trans pride, Worldwide
Bitch


it gives you more xp for nonlethal kills. which is why im a shifter user. i've always hated how vanilla is short on xp compared to how much it asks for master for the important skills and giving me xp for exploration and nonlethal kills is right up my alley

Phigs
Jan 23, 2019


It didn't feel short on experience to me. I think I usually mastered pistols, hacking, rifles and either electronic or lockpick, then a few pips in the other. Plus a smattering of 1 pips on other stuff. That feels pretty good to me if you want a system that lets you do what you need but not everything. It kept me hungry for xp but not starved.

MysticalMachineGun
Apr 5, 2005



Yeah, while I'll never complain that HR is too easy for allowing you to max everything, having a system where you can't max everything or it's very difficult to do so is a valid design choice.

Plus I'll never max swimming. NEVER

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012



I always felt that by the time you got the Dragon's tooth and enough Lams and GEP rockets, most of the skills became pretty ancillary, it's not like the enemies could do anything about the Rocket launching cyborg samurai coming after them anyways.

chaosapiant
Oct 10, 2012

White Line Fever



Most goons arenít fans but Iím a huge Revision fan myself. I love the updated look of the game, plus it comes with Shifter and Biomod settings.

site
Apr 6, 2007

Trans pride, Worldwide
Bitch


i didn't say master everything. even with shifter you'll, if you only focus on specific skills you will usually only get the necessaries like melee, lockpicking, computers, electronics, and maybe advanced for a couple others, which is why i say think it's good. with vanilla it always felt hard to master even the least amount of necessary skills. now it feels doable just for the minimum

Serephina
Nov 8, 2005



You *don't* need to max lockpicking and electronics (and arguably computers) in Vanilla, it's kinda the entire point that expert-level is prohibitively expensive. There is absolutely enough xp in Vanilla imo. If anything there's not enough 'good' skills that are worth at least a single level, too much stuff like swimming etc.

edit: You're right swimming is a great QoL 1-pointer. What was the one that makes consumable items better, enviromental training? That was disappointing in its practicality.

Serephina fucked around with this message at 14:18 on Feb 25, 2021

Xander77
Apr 6, 2009

Fuck it then. For another pit sandwich and some 'tater salad, I'll post a few more.




Serephina posted:

You *don't* need to max lockpicking and electronics (and arguably computers) in Vanilla, it's kinda the entire point that expert-level is prohibitively expensive. There is absolutely enough xp in Vanilla imo. If anything there's not enough 'good' skills that are worth at least a single level, too much stuff like swimming etc.
You absolutely could use a single level in swimming and medicine, particularly since they're so cheap.

a7m2
Jul 9, 2012


Swimming is a great skill for subsequent playthroughs, there's some cool poo poo you can swim to.

Butterfly Valley
Apr 19, 2007

Begone Trump, hello cool dog, you're welcome. And be ein good goon.


Just for general QOL a level in swimming is absolutely worth it, if you're the kind of player who likes exploring the environment as much as possible it opens up many more options

aniviron
Sep 11, 2014



Serephina posted:

What was the one that makes consumable items better, enviromental training? That was disappointing in its practicality.

It's amazing how simple of a tweak is required to make environmental training worth it. I forget which mod it is, but one of them makes it so you can turn off equipment once you've activated it. Suddenly, that ballistic vest can be reused until it runs out, so you can have it on in every fight instead of getting shot twice before it runs out.

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JustJeff88
Jan 15, 2008

I AM
CONSISTENTLY
ANNOYING
...
JUST TERRIBLE


THIS BADGE OF SHAME IS WORTH 0.45 DOUBLE DRAGON ADVANCES


of SA-Mart forever

Is there a guide anywhere to all of the skill rewards in the base game? I think that I would enjoy that as a 'completionist run' of some sort.

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