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HPL posted:DPReview has Nikon J1 photo samples up. The ISO 3200 low light photos look surprisingly good, but we'll see what happens when they do raw noise tests, which are usually a more true test of how much is the sensor talking and how much is the in-camera post-processing. Not really. Someone did a measurement lineup of the tamron 24-270 (it's direct counterpart) and the Tamron is both faster aperture and almost the same size/weight. Plus, what is up with an f/2.8 pancake? Even the Pentax Q has a 1.9. At least the Nex has the excuse of having a large sensor, even though I thought their 2.8 pancake was stupid as well. *edit* here: Hmm. APS-C format: Tamron 18-270mm F/3.5-6.3 Length: 90mm Filter diameter: 62mm Weight: 450g 35mm-equivalent max magnification ratio: 0.39x Nikon CX format: Nikkor 10-100mm F/4.5-5.6 Length: 95mm Filter diameter: 72mm Weight: 530g 35mm-equivalent max magnification ratio: 0.34x poopinmymouth fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Sep 22, 2011 |
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Sep 22, 2011 17:27
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I just hit the order button on amazon for a X100. It'll be here tomorrow.....so excited!
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Sep 22, 2011 20:18
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mattfl posted:I just hit the order button on amazon for a X100. It'll be here tomorrow.....so excited! Congrats! If you want to read my review, I describe how I shoot with it: http://myx100year.blogspot.com/2011/04/my-x100-review.html tl;dr auto-ISO Aperture priority M-focus mode with the AFL button set to focus only
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Sep 22, 2011 20:25
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poopinmymouth posted:Not really. Someone did a measurement lineup of the tamron 24-270 (it's direct counterpart) and the Tamron is both faster aperture and almost the same size/weight. Plus, what is up with an f/2.8 pancake? Even the Pentax Q has a 1.9. At least the Nex has the excuse of having a large sensor, even though I thought their 2.8 pancake was stupid as well. You're talking about the 10-100. I'm talking about the 30-110, which is much smaller.
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Sep 22, 2011 20:32
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HPL posted:You're talking about the 10-100. I'm talking about the 30-110, which is much smaller.  NIKKOR VR 30-110mm f/3.8-5.6 Weight Approx. 180g/6.3oz Dia. x length Approx. 60 x 61mm m4/3 40-150mm F4.0-5.6 Weight = 220g / 7.8 oz. Dimensions = 65.5 x 72mm / 2.58 x 2.83 in. Those seem awfully close to me.
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Sep 22, 2011 21:35
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poopinmymouth posted:So it's bigger, has a smaller sensor, and costs more. Just like Micro 4/3 when the NEX came out. What the hell is up with mirrorless cameras 
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Sep 22, 2011 21:58
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Beastruction posted:So it's bigger, has a smaller sensor, and costs more. http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/42175/nikon-v1-vs-sony-nex-5n I disagree with them.
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Sep 22, 2011 22:10
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Shmoogy posted:My thoughts exactly, but then there are sites like this that say the Nikon one is better than the Nex5n (which is a beast) These kind of sites are worthless. I saw a similar one that scored the S90 better than the X100 which is laughable unless your sole metric is size. Lol, they give the score to the Nikon because of the on board processor (ultra lol!) and the fact that with adaptor, the Nikon can take legacy lenses. totally forgetting that with the 2.7 crop, that makes it completely worthless for all but birding hobbyists. the Nex adaptor will actually be useful since it's only the same 1.5 crop all aps-c users are used to. What a lovely lovely comparison that shows exactly how little the author knows about actual photography. poopinmymouth fucked around with this message at 22:24 on Sep 22, 2011 |
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Sep 22, 2011 22:22
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The one place I could see this Nikon being useful (for someone like me, at least) is as a platform to use the huge variety of old cine lenses, since their coverages are probably fine for this sensor. But even that's not something I've ever felt terribly motivated to do, and most of those lenses aren't all that great.
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Sep 22, 2011 22:25
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Paragon8 posted:The point and shoot market will be killed off by camera phones within the next 2-3 years so I'd imagine manufacturers are trying to find a new market to sell to. There is no question that the point and shoot market has already been affected by cell phones with built-in cameras. However, saying they will be killed off in 2-3 years is a huge leap of faith that I don't buy. For one, while image quality will undoubtedly improve with new cell phones, so will that of the point & shoots. Second, assuming a phone of this caliber exists in 2-3 years only a small- or mid-sized portion of the population will actually have it -- not enough to "kill" the point and shoot. (Consider the price of phones, cost of the phone plans, the economy.) Third, there is still a need for an actual camera that acts and performs like a camera, by people who prefer to shoot this way. Sure, this group of people may be dwindling down as the years go by, but I can't imagine a complete transformation within 3 years. There are also other variables to consider, like the older generation who don't make the connection between phone and camera, and will always have one of each to perform these functions, or children, who will be given cameras as gifts, and later cell phones to keep in contact. But the camera will come first. And damnit, some things you just can't cram into a phone well enough that it mirrors the way present cameras work. It's not just about having the right sensor, it's about having the controls. With that said, I think cell phones will continue to hurt the point & shoot market, but people today and people in 2-3 years will still want actual cameras, and they will buy them. I think it would be more accurate to say that in 10 or 20 years the point and shoot may be killed off. But for now it's still safe.
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Sep 22, 2011 22:57
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poopinmymouth posted:totally forgetting that with the 2.7 crop, that makes it completely worthless for all but birding hobbyists. What is the difference between 10mm at 2.7x vs say 17mm at 1.6x?
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Sep 22, 2011 23:23
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unixbeard posted:What is the difference between 10mm at 2.7x vs say 17mm at 1.6x? The point is that they were saying while both Nex and N1 have adaptors for the "full size" lenses of the manufacturers, that Nikon has way more full size lenses than sony does. That forgets the point that all of sony's lenses are pretty useable focal lengths with the Next adaptor, whereas most of Nikon's become telescopes. Obviously the normal system lenses work out alright, but when you limit it to that, the Nex and N1 have pretty much the same lens lineup.
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Sep 22, 2011 23:31
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Mannequin posted:but people today and people in 2-3 years will still want actual cameras, and they will buy them. Maybe, probably, but if you go to any events or concerts you're pretty likely to see (I'd estimate 70%) of the people in the 15-25 age group taking photos are using their cell phones. Most people don't like carrying around specialized devices, connecting things to their computers, or expensive extra accessories. Probably less than 5 years before you see them as often as bridge cameras.
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Sep 22, 2011 23:37
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Mannequin posted:There is no question that the point and shoot market has already been affected by cell phones with built-in cameras. However, saying they will be killed off in 2-3 years is a huge leap of faith that I don't buy. For one, while image quality will undoubtedly improve with new cell phones, so will that of the point & shoots. Second, assuming a phone of this caliber exists in 2-3 years only a small- or mid-sized portion of the population will actually have it -- not enough to "kill" the point and shoot. (Consider the price of phones, cost of the phone plans, the economy.) Third, there is still a need for an actual camera that acts and performs like a camera, by people who prefer to shoot this way. Sure, this group of people may be dwindling down as the years go by, but I can't imagine a complete transformation within 3 years. There are also other variables to consider, like the older generation who don't make the connection between phone and camera, and will always have one of each to perform these functions, or children, who will be given cameras as gifts, and later cell phones to keep in contact. But the camera will come first. And damnit, some things you just can't cram into a phone well enough that it mirrors the way present cameras work. It's not just about having the right sensor, it's about having the controls. Oh yeah, 2-3 years was probably too short. It is the internet, I'm obligated to not put that much thought into what I'm saying. I'd say it'd be closer to 10 years rather than 20. I'd disagree with you in regards to how cameras work today - overwhelmingly cameras are just a third party into getting pictures on Facebook. It's almost terrifying to see a visual representation of how dominant Facebook is with regards to images on the internet. Everyone is signing up to Facebook. Only the much much older generation are really avoiding Facebook entirely - and nobody cares about their camera habits anymore. People have overwhelmingly shifted to using cameras with an LCD screen held away from their face in the past 6-8 years. They'll get used to new generation camera phones soon enough. The real killer app for the consumer camera market would be to hook onto a mobile network and auto upload your photos to Facebook. Not even bother with a memory card but just have internal flash storage. I think EVILs are an interesting way for camera manufacturers to create a new market - because interchangeable lenses are going to be the one thing you'll never find on a P&S and the EVILs are going to make it seem more friendly and less "pro" to the casual user to buy into a friendly and simple system. Look at how often people come into the gear threads here confused and bewildered by the amount of lens choices. With these you could just say "buy x and y" because that's really all that's available.
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Sep 22, 2011 23:40
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poopinmymouth posted:The point is that they were saying while both Nex and N1 have adaptors for the "full size" lenses of the manufacturers, that Nikon has way more full size lenses than sony does. That forgets the point that all of sony's lenses are pretty useable focal lengths with the Next adaptor, whereas most of Nikon's become telescopes. Yeah ok i didn't really think about that and thought it might have some wacky impact DoF or something. I'm thinking about it cause my D40 is getting a bit long in the tooth, if theres something that fits in my pocket and is good for general snaps it'd be pretty cool, especially if it does video and stuff properly. 10mm/2.7 is just a bit too wide for me, 35mm is OK but shorter than that it gets a bit iffy for me. The marketing videos i saw keep saying it had been engineered as "a system" so I'll wait to see how that works, even with a small sensor it might do OK at high isos etc. "A system" does kinda imply "you need to buy a bunch of new lenses" which isnt that great and from reading the stuff here it sounds like the NEX might be better anyway.
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Sep 22, 2011 23:44
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If you go to any events and see people taking photographs (I guess 12-30 year olds mostly) I'd say that the odds are that almost all of them are using a cell phone rather than a point & shoot. Paragon8 posted:I'd disagree with you in regards to how cameras work today - overwhelmingly cameras are just a third party into getting pictures on Facebook. It's almost terrifying to see a visual representation of how dominant Facebook is with regards to images on the internet. Everyone is signing up to Facebook. Only the much much older generation are really avoiding Facebook entirely - and nobody cares about their camera habits anymore. This image really puts it into perspective: 
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Sep 23, 2011 04:04
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Shmoogy posted:If you go to any events and see people taking photographs (I guess 12-30 year olds mostly) I'd say that the odds are that almost all of them are using a cell phone rather than a point & shoot. Yeah that's the graphic I was thinking of when I said that. Thanks for grabbing it. I'm a bit surprised that none of the big three manufacturers have gone with a "Facebook" camera.
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Sep 23, 2011 12:51
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Crossposting (somewhat), a guy on the sidelines of the Cincinnati/NC State game last night let me see his EP-3 PEN with a regular 4/3 7-14mm f/4 lens. I have to say, these cameras are a lot more comfortable to hold then I thought they might be. The add-on electronic viewfinder was a neat touch as well.
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Sep 23, 2011 13:26
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DJExile posted:Crossposting (somewhat), a guy on the sidelines of the Cincinnati/NC State game last night let me see his EP-3 PEN with a regular 4/3 7-14mm f/4 lens. I have to say, these cameras are a lot more comfortable to hold then I thought they might be. The add-on electronic viewfinder was a neat touch as well. Yeah, I got to play around with one (and an NEX-5n with the finder) at Yodobashi Camera in Fukuoka this afternoon. I was sort of "eh" about the idea of an accessory finder, but it seems like it'd make manual focusing legacy glass a lot easier: I felt like I could nail focus without having to zoom in to 7x. I also got a chance to play with that tiny Pentax with the interchangeable lenses. I gotta say... it's actually kinda cool. I'm sure the high ISO is pretty crap, but it's the size of a P&S and does offer some decent DoF/manual controls.
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Sep 23, 2011 16:56
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Wow, got my X100 today. I definitely need to sit and actually read through the manual before I even think of venturing out with this. So far I'm really like it though.
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Sep 23, 2011 22:32
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mattfl posted:Wow, got my X100 today. I definitely need to sit and actually read through the manual before I even think of venturing out with this. So far I'm really like it though. It's mostly about practicing with it to build up finger memory. It has a steep initial learning curve and it looks all confusing when you first pick it up and try to navigate through the menus but you'll get it pretty fast. Stuff I should have read in the manual but didn't: Pressing the AE button on the far left quickly lets you pick Multi, Spot and Average metering. Pressing the AF button lets you pick a focus point. If you hold this button down and move the Command Lever left and right you can make the focus box bigger or smaller. But only in EVF or while looking at the back LCD. It carries over to the OVF, it just doesn't actively change the box size while looking through the OVF. I don't know if this is a bug or a limitation. I'm spoiled by the 7d's autofocus sorcery so I'm not used to manually selecting a focus point and I'm not experienced enough with the x100's multi AF mode to know whether to trust it or not. I need to go out and shoot a day doing nothing but selecting manually selecting AF points to get some experience with it. Enjoy it and have fun.
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Sep 24, 2011 01:27
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Watch the Fuji guys videos to learn all the things you will read / wont read in the manual: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=fuji+guys+x100&aq=f
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Sep 24, 2011 01:37
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HPL posted:I think you'd have better luck building a phone into a camera rather that the other way around. It's nice having phones without camera bumps. Paragon8 posted:Oh yeah, 2-3 years was probably too short. It is the internet, I'm obligated to not put that much thought into what I'm saying. I'd say it'd be closer to 10 years rather than 20. I almost never text anymore (only time-sensitive stuff), and I call more on skype than on my phone. Paragon8 posted:People have overwhelmingly shifted to using cameras with an LCD screen held away from their face in the past 6-8 years. They'll get used to new generation camera phones soon enough. Paragon8 posted:The real killer app for the consumer camera market would be to hook onto a mobile network and auto upload your photos to Facebook. Not even bother with a memory card but just have internal flash storage. Paragon8 posted:I think EVILs are an interesting way for camera manufacturers to create a new market - because interchangeable lenses are going to be the one thing you'll never find on a P&S and the EVILs are going to make it seem more friendly and less "pro" to the casual user to buy into a friendly and simple system. Paragon8 posted:Look at how often people come into the gear threads here confused and bewildered by the amount of lens choices. With these you could just say "buy x and y" because that's really all that's available. unixbeard posted:Yeah ok i didn't really think about that and thought it might have some wacky impact DoF or something. I'm thinking about it cause my D40 is getting a bit long in the tooth, if theres something that fits in my pocket and is good for general snaps it'd be pretty cool, especially if it does video and stuff properly. poopinmymouth posted:Yeah the Nex and X100's make sense, the Pentax Q and Nikon don't. I'll pay the same price as a dslr for the same IQ in a smaller package, but not for this tiny sensor stuff. Beastruction posted:Just like Micro 4/3 when the NEX came out. What the hell is up with mirrorless cameras evil_bunnY fucked around with this message at 14:52 on Sep 24, 2011 |
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Sep 24, 2011 10:33
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evil_bunnY posted:Are you trying to argue that less choice is a good thing? It does tend to result in greater satisfaction. It doesn't matter if there are 5 or 50 or 500 options if you can't pick out the one that's best for you Of course once you know what you want and can eliminate the extra 495 choices yourself it's better to have them, but people who can do that aren't the target market for this stuff.
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Sep 24, 2011 16:28
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Beastruction posted:It does tend to result in greater satisfaction. It doesn't matter if there are 5 or 50 or 500 options if you can't pick out the one that's best for you Yeah, exactly. A smaller system is much less daunting for someone who is just buying a "good" camera for the first time. Look at the first time consumers posting on this forum that are torn between zooms, primes not to mention third party manufacturers and do they need and L lens blah blah. You have so many varying reviews and experiences with each lens that it's hard to achieve any kind of consensus. Having a system that has very clear options is definitely attractive to an electronics consumer. The Nikon EVILs aren't designed for anyone that posts on an internet forum about photography. The x100 is.
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Sep 24, 2011 16:38
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I've decided against the Olympus 45 1.8 and gotten the Panasonic 20mm 1.7 instead. I think the latter will be a better all purpose lens and that i'll be better served with a fast walking around lens. Also, if I do find that i am really tending towards portraits then the 20 seems to re-sell pretty well. The 20 does appear to be the 'nifty fifty' for m4/3ds and has been out for a pretty long time, so the fact that there's still such demand for them is a testament to their utility.
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Sep 27, 2011 14:40
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Anti-Derivative posted:I've decided against the Olympus 45 1.8 and gotten the Panasonic 20mm 1.7 instead. I think the latter will be a better all purpose lens and that i'll be better served with a fast walking around lens. Also, if I do find that i am really tending towards portraits then the 20 seems to re-sell pretty well. I literally picked one up yesterday for my E-P3 and I like it very much. I'm mainly happy due to its low-light performance, sharpness and relative affordability.
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Sep 27, 2011 17:14
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I just wish it autofocused faster/better.
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Sep 27, 2011 18:24
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Cacator posted:I literally picked one up yesterday for my E-P3 and I like it very much. I'm mainly happy due to its low-light performance, sharpness and relative affordability. Do you have a public flickr? I'd love to see some photos with that combination.
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Sep 27, 2011 20:22
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in order to offset my dismay at not getting the 45mm, I have ordered the 50mm Konica Hexanon 1.7 for like £25. Between that and the 20mm I think i'm going to be set for anything.
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Sep 28, 2011 23:05
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Man_of_Teflon posted:I just wish it autofocused faster/better. It's decently quick on the E-P3, but it does hunt more often than the kit lens. Costello Jello posted:Do you have a public flickr? I'd love to see some photos with that combination. Perhaps. I don't think I've taken enough that take full advantage of the lens' capabilities though. But the main reason to get an E-P3 over the older models is performance and handling, image quality should be pretty similar. These are all straight out of camera jpegs:  The Wire(s) by Cacator, on Flickr  P9280975 by Cacator, on Flickr  RFO-1727 by Cacator, on Flickr edit: Some better ones  20° by Cacator, on Flickr  Jennifer Lopez by Cacator, on Flickr (post-processed) Cacator fucked around with this message at 07:15 on Sep 30, 2011 |
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Sep 29, 2011 03:23
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I'm putting my Panasonic GF-1 on the market if anyone is interested. It has the legendary 20mm f/1.7 lens, which I will miss like a kitten if someone takes her from me. Honestly? I've gotten more smiles from these little cameras than I know what to do with. There's something about their size that takes everyone down a notch from "oh man, professional guy with a giant rear end camera, better stiffen the gently caress up" and back into the pocket cam fun zone.
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Sep 29, 2011 04:27
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Got to mess around with a NEX-5n today. It's a nice little camera. The Alpha adapter is better than I thought it would be. With the adapter on the camera, you hold the adapter in your left hand as opposed to the camera body. It feels a lot more natural to hold than I expected it to be, even with a 70-400 on it. I would definitely get the EVF if I got the Alpha adapter because holding a camera like that far away from the body is awkward. I also got to play around with an A77. That, my friends, is a serious piece of work. Go check one out if you get a chance. There are a few odd things about it that aren't quite ready for prime time, but if Sony can give it a firmware revision or two, it'll be solid as hell. The EVF is good. Still not as good as an optical finder, but damned good. It's neat how you can see actual DOF in the finder because the aperture stops down but the sensor compensates for it as opposed to showing a wide open aperture view all the time like an optical. Even at f/22 the EVF was fine. HPL fucked around with this message at 04:00 on Sep 30, 2011 |
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Sep 30, 2011 03:57
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My a77 arrived a couple of days ago and so far, I love it. It makes me even more excited for the NEX-7.
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Sep 30, 2011 04:32
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Oh yeah, another big thing I noticed with the NEX is that when you put the fisheye and wide angle converters on the 16mm f/2.8, there's no loss of light. Shutter speed and aperture were the same with and without the converters. I was expecting to lose a stop or so but no. Also, the worries about the mirror on the A77 soaking up light shouldn't be much of a concern as the sensor has been tweaked to compensate for any possible loss of light. The NEX 50mm f/1.8 is disappointingly large, roughly the same size or larger than a regular 50mm f/1.8. Sony apparently has been working to keep the prices of their lenses reasonable as well since the camera bodies (except the NEX system) have in-body stabilization and AF drive motors. The 16-50 f/2.8 is very well priced compared to, say, the Canon EF-S 17-55 f/2.8 IS. Also related to IS, people have to keep in mind that any Alpha lenses used with the Alpha adapter on the NEX will not have IS since the NEX uses in-lens IS. I have a feeling that whatever comes out after the A77 could really shake some trees in the industry. HPL fucked around with this message at 16:35 on Sep 30, 2011 |
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Sep 30, 2011 16:27
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I picked up my X100 today, I seemed to have found the last one in the Twin Cities. One issue I have (maybe its just with mine) but if I'm any closer than 2.5/3ft away I have to go into macro mode. This isnt normal is it? It's pretty frustrating if I'm remotely close to my subject because then it goes into the EVF mode only.
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Oct 1, 2011 06:53
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titanium posted:I picked up my X100 today, I seemed to have found the last one in the Twin Cities. One issue I have (maybe its just with mine) but if I'm any closer than 2.5/3ft away I have to go into macro mode. This isnt normal is it? It's pretty frustrating if I'm remotely close to my subject because then it goes into the EVF mode only. Yeah it is, I think 80cm is the cutoff where the OVF won't autofocus. I think it's the case because the parallax error would be so large that the OVF won't accurately represent the picture at all.
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Oct 1, 2011 07:02
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Mest0r posted:Yeah it is, I think 80cm is the cutoff where the OVF won't autofocus. I think it's the case because the parallax error would be so large that the OVF won't accurately represent the picture at all. I suppose that makes sense, guess I'll just have to crop more often. BTW this afternoon Amazon.com didn't have any but I checked now and it looks like 6 are in stock, drat I paid taxes. At least I got to help a local camera shop  .Are the lens hoods at a price they were meant to be or are they gouging right now?
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Oct 1, 2011 08:08
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titanium posted:I suppose that makes sense, guess I'll just have to crop more often. I'm not sure I follow you on this cropping thing. Within 3 feet just push left on the back dial, rotate it and half depress the shutter and you're in Macro mode and it will focus on anything within 3 feet up to about 4 cm. Yeah, it feels silly but with the EVF you're getting the exact frame. I'm guessing that somebody at Fuji had to make a call and they decided that framing was the highest priority. I still think it would be handier if the camera just switched to EVF and Macro mode automatically but using the shortcut I mentioned above is pretty fast and you can do it without removing your eye from the viewfinder. quote:BTW this afternoon Amazon.com didn't have any but I checked now and it looks like 6 are in stock, drat I paid taxes. At least I got to help a local camera shop That's what they started at and I can't tell if they are somehow a pain in the rear end for Fuji to manufacture and they're priced high because it's only for this camera and they have to divert resources to make them or what but it's illogical. I paid for one (and waited a month for it) because I value OEM equipment but it looks like the knock-offs are getting pretty good now. You'll almost certainly want one if for no other reason than it greatly improves the holding ergonomics of the camera.. As goofy as it looks, it really is handy for blocking stray light and you definitely don't want anything hitting that glass. I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere else but without the hood I invariably touch the glass somehow. Doesn't matter how careful I intend to be, I'll reach into my bag and end up smudging the lens. Manually focusing it, holding it, being near it, I will touch that goddamn lens like a concussed kindergartener.
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Oct 1, 2011 10:15
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titanium posted:I suppose that makes sense, guess I'll just have to crop more often. You can get a 10 dollar knockoff hood on ebay with the filter adaptor. That said, I don't own one. I don't use hoods for any of my lenses ever. I just feel like they are a big pain in the rear end, and I just cup my hand over the lens when I am annoyed by flare.
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Oct 1, 2011 12:35
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