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and to all the titans, congratulations
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Apr 10, 2021 09:48
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the copium levels in this thread are off the chart. why is it so hard to accept that this thing you liked ended poorly, take the L and move on? its a piece of art, not your whole identity
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May 16, 2021 20:35
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MonsterEnvy posted:At the very least a 100 later (Probably more) a war was fought on the Island. And after it ended there are still people there. So no genocide happened there at least, it was probably a normal rear end war. genocides dont have to wipe out every single member of their target to be successful, or to be classed genocides. unless you want to argue what happened in armenia or rwanda or the holocaust as "not genocides" in which case, idk what to tell you
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Nov 12, 2021 03:50
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Conspiratiorist posted:Why do you keep getting hung up on that? Eren establishes that from his perspective he's conversing with Armin from the future, where it's all already happened and he's about to be killed. Nothing Armin can say during the conversation would prevent it. couldnt he tell armin that hes realized genocide is wrong and to tell him he told him not to do it because hes dying. idk. the paths suck. say whatever you want for or against the story but its very clear isayama was not equipped as a creator to handle the kind of pandoras box that this kind of plot element would be opening
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Nov 13, 2021 04:29
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if i were writing a wildly popular multimillion dollar media franchise spawning manga, i would simply research real life elements of my story before inserting them and publishing it
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Nov 18, 2021 10:18
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there are some themes where it is ok to just shotgun your thoughts or ideas about in a nebulous way into your work and leave up to interpretation, and there is plenty of art that does this. they tend to be lighter (nature of love or sacrifice for others) and some that are more serious (memories/what is the self, etc). In works like those, there's no real imperative to have an actual stance, and "just asking questions" is fine because the idea is to provoke thought or conversation. there are other themes where it is morally not ok to be nebulous, and in my opinion "whats the deal with fascism?" is absolutely one of those things. if you are telling a story about fascism and questioning the morality, feasibility, or integrity of it, and your story has failed to definitively come down against it, then there is a colossal problem. failing to do that doesnt inherently mean the author is a fascist or that if you enjoy it then youre a fascist or whatever weird strawman poo poo gets thrown around. it just means that the story was poorly and irresponsibly told, and interrogating what went wrong and why is absolutely a worthwhile conversation to be had. and as to the "why doesnt batman get this kind of criticism???" posting above, outside of the fact that it absolutely DOES and a big part of why you dont see that stuff all the time is because its a nearly 100 year old media franchise with every possible take about it having been regurgitated endlessly, the fact is that it doesn't deal with fascism in an aesthetic way. if a franchise has a bunch of people walking around in brown hugo boss uniforms, wearing armbands, and forcing the evil sneaky blood libel people that are controlling everything but also pathetic and afraid of destruction to wear badges identifying themselves...well, there are going to be some very obvious conversational pivots! i cant recall any batman plots where he goes into the ghetto and marks potential criminals for thoughtcrime with a literal badge and says "step out of line and its zyklon b for you, bucko." then again, i havent read anything frank miller has done post 2000, so its entirely possibly knowing him.
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Nov 28, 2021 15:28
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to go back to watchmen, here is why that one works and this one doesn't: all the other characters that are alive are there to hear his plan and have an opinion on it, and say how they feel. even the ones that can accept that they failed to prevent anything and that the price has already been paid so revealing the truth would just create a complete waste of human life still say this, out loud. no one hugs adrian and congratulates him on a job well done, the dude is practically sobbing. contrast that to aot where we have a single character there to hear eren's last words, theyre certainly not as interesting or convincing one way or the other as adrians (he clearly DOES care about humanity, which i think is a very hard case to make for eren), and at least when all his former friends leave adrian knows that the choice he has made has finally alienated him once and for all from the world due to the monstrosity of his actions. eren gets a thank you for genocide. it would have brought greater clarity of what isayama was actually trying to do if he had had other characters present in that final conversation. there could be an interesting debate about whether he was pathetically claiming he loved mikasa to garner some reaction from her or if he really meant it, rather than it being a bizarre addendum. you mention johngalt.txt as though thats what we're expecting the other characters to do, all stand around and lecture eren about what a bad boy he was for trying to do a fascism and here's why it's wrong, when it would have been much more interesting if everyone else had been around to hear what he had to say, to see the looks on their faces as he deteriorates and realizes what he has done after the fact. just as a hypothetical! there are a mind boggling number of ways that this could have been improved, and it REALLY had to be, because anything short of a full throated rejection of fascism was always going to lead to this kind of discourse about the story, and i hate to burst your bubble but it will happen forever. maybe the anime will change something or fix something and we might get an ending more like the one i described above and we can all say "ok i kind of get what he was going for here now that they fixed it" and any time someone rolls into this thread you can point them at it, but who knows. the fact that a shrug is your best outcome is not great.
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Nov 29, 2021 00:47
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it might be less to do with aot and more to do with the limited language that the people talking about it use, but one of the things i really hate is this idea that its talking about human nature. the idea that isayama, or literally anyone that has ever lived or will ever live, is going to make something that will prescriptively explain something that the greatest minds in human history across all cultures and thousands of years have been unable to define in any meaningful way is preposterous. i think that is part of why many people do try to insist that aot is fascist: a lot of actually, literally fascist media and part of the ideology as a whole is based in false dichotomy about the human nature of struggle, and that everything must be a struggle and you either win or you die so it's better to put your enemies to the sword until there are no enemies left, and then once you ask "well gee, who are the enemies then?" is when you start getting into your specific flavours of fascism like nazis or khemer rouge or etc. the idea that there might just not be any reason for anything, that people are reactive creatures just trying to exist comfortably and live their lives in relative peace is never an option, of course. that kind of pathological need to ascribe everything humans do to a root cause or drive is a really toxic way to look at the world, even if your chips dont come down on the fascist life is a struggle outlook but even just on something innocuous like im just here to gently caress or im just here to be a good friend or whatever. i think if isayama as an artist was less concerned with human nature, and people discussing the work were less concerned with shaking the 8 ball and seeing what attack on titan is trying to say at any given point about it, a lot of feelings about what its doing right or wrong would be easier to figure out.
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Nov 30, 2021 20:51
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Bread Set Jettison posted:Honestly I've been wondering how much of my dislike for the ending was weird translation ("You committed genocide to save us thank you!!!???") and a rushed conclusion. The extra pages ere good and i literally didnt know about them until a month or two ago. that wasnt bad translation though, he literally said that, the raws were posted in this thread
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Jan 13, 2022 21:15
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Captain Invictus posted:I thought it was more of an "I appreciate the intent but we'll try to salvage the mistake you made" sort of comment In It For The Tank posted:That's because the arigatō happened two panels earlier:
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Jan 13, 2022 23:07
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i wonder if even just asking that dudes opinions about rorschach is enough to constitute a spoiler
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Jan 31, 2022 08:26
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Feb 1, 2022 06:07
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Ethiser posted:I just don’t think the story as told is able to show Eren as completely wrong in his thinking because of the whole seeing the future thing. He got exactly what he wanted and it happened exactly as he knew it would. He won in the end because he accomplished everything that he set out to do. You could pull some moral about him not trusting those around him to be able to bring a better future to fruition and how he shouldn’t have seen violence as the only solution, but nothing in the story ever showed that what he foresaw could ever not come to pass so he had no reason to even try to do something different. I think he needed to have lived while most of his friends died and been forced to live with the consequences of his actions. this is the core of the actual good faith "aot is fascist" criticism. that the work is incapable of even considering or entertaining any outcomes that dont involve us or them ideology, or violence. there are very few characters that consider peace and they are shown at every turn to be stupid moron idiot babies that just dont GET IT, MAN. its the false dichotomy of "you do violence or else they will do it to you guaranteed" that is the root of fascism, and the root of the accusations against this series.
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Feb 6, 2022 16:47
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the thing with her dad? where she get so pissed off with him that she joins the survey corps to get back at him when he tells her not to eat the meat because he wants to help the refugees? lmao
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Feb 6, 2022 17:03
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as hes trying to give his little speech his other kid is lunging her with a knife and disregarding it, so its not really reaching anybody. even during a moving speech of a father forgiving his daughters killer, he has no power over stopping the cycle of violence because to those involved (dad is explicitly not involved, he lives in the woods as removed as possible from the conflict in the series) it is always shown as the only possible option. though you can accuse me of goalpost moving if youd like, but with my original statement i was more referring to the actual players in the plot anyways. its the big issue with the time travel aspect of the story and the paths too. eren sees everything and decides that violence is the only option. why? because it has to be, it was always destined to turn out this way. why? because he made it that way by manipulating the titan/hosts throughout history. this wouldnt actually be a bad way of illustrating the fallacy of fascist logic if it was just handled slightly better and actually addressed in the manga at all, but its the fact that it just sits there uncommented on and expected to just pass muster "because" that is an issue
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Feb 7, 2022 16:26
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from anime threadRocco posted:I'm saying this as a huge Lost fan- this show is doing all the poo poo I wish Lost had actually done. im fuckin howling rn
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Feb 9, 2022 17:58
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Conspiratiorist posted:Eh, we've done more accumulated damage to the biosphere irl and things are still not yet bad enough that people can still claim they're actually fine. if you think we are currently living in a world where all the forests are destroyed like at the end of AOT then lmao
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Feb 12, 2022 19:10
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chiasaur after the anime ends exactly like the manga
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Feb 16, 2022 02:49
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| # ¿ Apr 26, 2024 21:50 |
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everything that comes out of erens mouth in that last scene of him just immediately reads to me in the same voice as morty
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Mar 12, 2023 07:51
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