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Alright, finally throwing down for Persona 4. Came up in my queue at last. I put in 100+ hours into P3, and I've read the wiki entry, so I'm not too concerned overall. I already know from P3 that playing to get 100% S. Links right off the bat is foolhardy anyway, at least. What I'd just like to check before going in all the way was whether there were any really, really must-have Links. Like Emperor in P3, who I just barely managed to max out on like the last day and would've been loving pissed if I hadn't (because without that you don't get Odin, and without Odin I don't see how I would have been able to open up Monad). Things seem looser about this sort of thing in P4, but no one seemed to mention the Emperor thing when I asked about P3 and I don't want to be blindsided again.
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May 16, 2012 04:17
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I just want to make sure there's not another situation where I need a very, very specific skill only found on one persona, who can only be obtained through a max link, and that one skill is one of the only ways to open the way to an incredibly important location like Monad.
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May 16, 2012 04:26
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OddObserver posted:P.S. There are ways of beating the reaper in P3 that do not involve cheezing him I thought there were only two endings to P4; is there a recommended order as to whether I should tackle the Good or True Endings first? Nate RFB fucked around with this message at 11:43 on May 16, 2012 |
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May 16, 2012 11:39
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Persona 1 was able to somehow combine a convoluted, cumbersome, and slow (at least on the PS1) battle system with an extremely high encounter rate and long, confusing, monotonous dungeons. It was just about the perfect storm of bad JRPG gameplay. Then you factor in the "so bad it stops being funny" localization and the awful persona system and difficulty curve (it's great fun when you suddenly encounter groups of enemies that can one-shot you no matter what level you are unless you fused a very specific kind of persona). The story is salvageable, which is kind of sad. With a proper remake, like giving it P4's battle and persona systems, it would be a solid entry in the franchise.
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May 21, 2012 13:52
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I'd rather have an easy battle system than one that is cumbersome for the sake of "challenge". Believe me, if I could get a real Press Turn Persona, I'd be in heaven. It's why I loved Nocturne's gameplay so much. But P1 is not Nocturne, it's not really anything at all actually. Clearly it was so popular, they decided to abandon it entirely for all MegaTen games afterwards. Sometimes there's a point where increased challenge is gained at the expense of convenience that just becomes too much to make it worth it, and I absolutely believe that that line is crossed with P1 and thus P3/P4 would be better alternatives even if they themselves are not "perfect". It's like arguing that Devil Survivor's fusion system makes it "too easy" and thus Nocturne/P3/P4's are better. It's possible to make a good balance between being intuitive/convenient and too challenging (though at that point I'd argue it's not so much "challenging" as it is "intentionally dumb to make your game playing experience more annoying"). E: The PS1 version is the one I played, and thus the version I am reviewing. It's good that they fixed most of the localization issues in the remake, but without a gameplay overhaul all of the skip features in the world aren't going to make it passable. Maybe it goes from a straight F to a C-, so yay? Nate RFB fucked around with this message at 14:17 on May 21, 2012 |
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May 21, 2012 14:06
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ImpAtom posted:My problem with Devil Survivor's fusion system is that there are no limitations. There's no reason NOT to put Holy Dance or whatever on every single monster and pass it along to every successive monster for eternity. There's no real though put into monster "breeding" because of it. I agree that randomization isn't the best move, but neither is being completely unrestrained. I'd rather they add limitations to what a monster can learn. In my opinion at least, I would take the game breaking fusion system over the "re-try the fusion for 30+ minutes" method. Maybe it makes it too easy, I guess. I honestly don't care all that much when placed against the alternative.
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May 21, 2012 14:22
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Technique posted:So wait, your argument is that it is too hard? If there is one thing P1 isn't, it's hard. Do you suck a hundred asses or something? P2 is much better balanced in this regard, in that I'm pretty sure there are no bullshit one-shot enemies and no points where you can no longer negotiate (which you might never have to do anyway if you never switch personas).
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May 21, 2012 17:47
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Looking up my old posts ranting about it, it was the Mana Castle and enemies casting Eternity. You needed resistance against Evildark or it would anhililate you. I never found any such dungeon with lower level enemies. It also takes god knows how many hours to get around the final dungeon, so there really wasn't much incentive to back out anyway.
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May 21, 2012 18:01
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P4 is cool. I am enjoying it so far (just finished the first dungeon). That's all there is really to say on the matter. Well except for a few things: -Being unable to go into Junes at night kind of surprised me, but no one seemed to bring it up before so I'll assume that for whatever reason S. Link management isn't majorly impacted. -P3 took itself so deathly serious, which was a problem when honestly it was so cheesy. I like that P4 is more "fun" so far, and that the characters seem to know as much as you so you learn along with them, as opposed to this super secret student club or whatever in SEES. -I hear you can choose whether to get romantically involved in your S. Links this time around or not. If you only choose one girl (or none?), does this mean there is absolutely no way to reverse a Link in the P3 manner (where every visit to a female S. Link would shave off time on every non-Maxed female link until they ultimately reversed). -This game looks gorgeous in PCSX2. Nate RFB fucked around with this message at 14:58 on May 23, 2012 |
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May 23, 2012 13:51
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-The load times suck on the PSP version. You have to deal with it, hack the PSP, or play the PS1 version instead. Sorry  -You can get away with basically never fusing new personas, but if you do then you want ones that boost Tech. Tech is king! It basically goes Tech>Vit>Agi>Luck>Str. I don't think I put more than a few points into Strength in Innocent Sin, and I know I put no points at all into it in Eternal Punishment. If you can get Vit Source items from the casino, equip them and never take them off (except for boss battles I guess). Hopefully your main character will max out Tech and Vitality before the game is over. -Try to use Fusion Spells to end every battle. You get tons of cool poo poo, like free level ups, items, stat boosts, persona form changes, etc. There's an item you can get from the casino IIRC that if you equip one on each party member, you can go into the menu and see what available fusion spells you have. -Negotiating is a good way to save on SP. In fact if you negotiate properly, you can run around in a dungeon forever: 1). Establish contracts with demons, 2). Fight demons to level up, 3). When you run low on SP negotiate with those contracted demons to get Free Tarots, and 4). Once your SP has been regained start back up with #2. -Always spread rumors for "expensive but high quality" weapons/armor/items. Nate RFB fucked around with this message at 14:19 on May 24, 2012 |
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May 24, 2012 13:53
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One thing I've always wondered about P3/P4, but do S. Link points stack? Like if you talk to a given Link, and they would level up no matter what you do, but say later on you invite them to lunch for a few more points, will those points carry over for the next level up? Or would they be wasted, since they were going to level up anyway? I kind of just did whatever in P3 and it worked out fine, but I may do another run in P4 if I like it enough (so far it's pretty cool).
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May 29, 2012 14:28
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Give me one more big title Nintendo and I will gladly buy your 3D gimmick handheld. You're almost there!
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May 30, 2012 00:47
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You'll honestly probably be able to figure it out as you play along, it's a hard game but it's not that hard to pick up. My few pointers would be: -Keep Fog Breath and War Cry around as long as possible, at least until you're comfortable with relying on your demons for it instead. I would say they definitely become useless once you get a good demon with Debilitate. -If you are going for a Physical-based main character (very viable), keep Focus. -The best magatama gives +10 to pretty much every stat. I'm pretty sure the maximum is 40, so by conjecture this means you should never have more than 30 in your base stats, otherwise those are wasted points. -Explore the Amala Network for those stones that allow you to fuse Fiends. With the exception of the first one (Matador), all of the Fiends are outstanding party members. Just know that if you finish the final Amala floor, you will be locked into the hard True Demon Ending. Pretty sure the game explicitly tells when you've reached the point of no return.
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Jun 4, 2012 17:48
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I would say that DDS is a slightly more forgiving/simpler Nocturne, and thus may be a good primer for the real deal. I haven't played DDS2 though, so I don't know if anything is vastly different for the sequel. Anyway, having completed Persona 3 and put in around 80 hours into Persona 4, I would say that going straight to P4 is the best way to get introduced to this series, no question. So what if it ruins P3's gameplay? P4 is so much better in every category that I don't think I would have minded playing it first and never touching P3 at all. I played P3 first because "P4 would ruin it", and I regret putting off P4 for so long to be honest. Nate RFB fucked around with this message at 00:03 on Jun 11, 2012 |
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Jun 11, 2012 00:01
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P4 is WAY more coherent than P3  I'm actually genuinely impressed with its plot; it's leagues ahead of P3's which was basically an 80 hour After School Special. The murder mystery is definitely more engaging to me than whatever nonsense SEES was all about.
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Jun 11, 2012 00:32
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THE AWESOME GHOST posted:Which reminds me, I exclusively used Yukiko/Chie/Yosuke first time through, I should give the others a chance this time. I remember really not liking Naoto.
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Jun 12, 2012 11:28
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THE AWESOME GHOST posted:Yeah I think those guys are the first S. Links you get so everyone ends up maxing them first and using them exclusively.  Otherwise you're asking your MC to pull double-duty on heavy ice damage and elec damage.It's smart to not bring in Kanji/Naoto at least because that's a whole extra set of armor and equipment to maintain. Keeping your party the same as much as possible means you can also only buy stuff for them as well. E: On my New Game+ run I'm probably going to stick with Chie though for simplicity's sake, now that I know that she'll never learn the -dyne spells and plan around that accordingly. Nate RFB fucked around with this message at 13:55 on Jun 12, 2012 |
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Jun 12, 2012 13:36
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Good chest armor is pretty rare, I think I got maybe one female piece I wound up using prior to the November dungeon. I got a whole bunch in that one though, which was nice. Regardless, it's still one less set of weapons to buy as well. Since you don't really rake in money until November, any cost savings prior to that is very helpful.
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Jun 12, 2012 14:12
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E: Nevermind, debuffs not buffs. I don't think debuffs would be particularly helpful on party members when really the only one you need late in the game is Debilitate, which of course is MC-only. Nate RFB fucked around with this message at 17:49 on Jun 12, 2012 |
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Jun 12, 2012 17:40
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Finally beat P4. It was good. Great characters, nice plot. Was able to max everything but Moon, which I ignored for most of the game. My biggest compliment is how much better the S. Links were this time around. So many more were plot relevant, though there were still the usual handful that were just filler NPC stories. And scheduling was a lot easier since you didn't have to worry about about reversals.
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Jun 14, 2012 04:07
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I thought the new Velvet Room character was World, not Aeon?
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Jun 14, 2012 13:59
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For me, I'm probably going to wait until the Ys IV remake comes out before I get the Vita. The Golden looks amazing, but one game alone isn't enough for me to get a system. At least now with PSN I don't have to worry about Atlus games going out of stock now. Regarding those new skills, honestly the only one that would make that much of a difference for my party would probably be swapping out Chie for Kanji. Finally, a good physical attacker with some -dyne spells. I don't think Naoto's would honestly be that useful, because Almighty spells just drain too much to be viable for anything but a select few scenarios. Definitely not bosses, and usually not regular battles (unless you have Victory Cry).
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Jun 18, 2012 14:22
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You get Lucifer for Victory Cry, and then use him to your heart's desire on a New Game+. I went through an entire NG+ run with just him (gave him Spell Master and Megidolaon) and Yoshitsune.
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Jul 5, 2012 05:32
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Yep, the shadows that look like the pringles guy. I actually recommend solo-ing it with just the MC, I kept killing the summons too fast with other party members. And even if you fight normal battles along the way, you'll get quite a lot of experience since you have just the MC (the bamboo sword from the old man at the river helps too).
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Jul 5, 2012 05:53
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The removal of time constraints that would cause reversals on Social Links may have been a bigger gameplay improvement than letting you control your party members. P4 really made strides on that front when you consider that a lot more Links were for your party or immediate plot-related characters as well. If any other Persona utilize Social Links, I hope they go all out and make all of them plot-relevant characters. No more one-off characters who no one gives a poo poo about like the sports/cultural club dorks. I'd also like some sort of counter to track all of your link's affection points, because nothing says fun like reloading the game 10 times to find out which person to have lunch with.
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Jul 6, 2012 21:02
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Rascyc posted:Sometimes I wonder if everyone looks at America and thinks "drat what a country of prudes"
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Jul 7, 2012 00:45
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darealkooky posted:I feel like persona 3 was only a good game when it came out, it has some really fuckin amazing parts to it, but it's also got a lot of stupid experimental poo poo and plot/pacing issues that four fixes. It's less "dark" but that's only because persona 3 is dark [in] a superficial hot topic kind of way
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Jul 8, 2012 17:50
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I really liked the end of P4. November-December is probably my favorite part of the whole game.
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Jul 8, 2012 19:05
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I think it resets if you leave the floor. I'd say...50+ at least to fight him. Probably safer around 60-70 though.
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Jul 11, 2012 00:36
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MC/Yukari/Akihiko/Mitsuru is pretty boss, though you must suffer Marin Karin for quite a while. Once you get beyond that hurdle though you can hit just about anything pretty hard.
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Jul 16, 2012 17:09
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I think if you've picked any side besides "gently caress everyone else" in Nocturne, you're doing it wrong. Because, seriously, gently caress everyone else in that game. Isn't the fusion system essentially identical to every other game besides Devil Survivor?
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Jul 20, 2012 04:12
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Read this: http://www.giantbomb.com/guides/persona-4-ending-guide-spoiler-free/1277/ There's no real point in getting anything other than the True Ending. Although, The Golden added yet another ending that certainly looks...interesting.
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Jul 23, 2012 23:40
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Now you should watch the hiimdaisy comic dub 
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Jul 26, 2012 19:51
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I found The Answer's story to be OK, it's really no better or worse than The Journey (though for me that's not saying much because I don't really care for P3's story). Except for Yukari, who became insufferable. However, it's the gameplay that kills it. I hate it when developers attempt to accomplish the goal of "increase the difficulty" with "let's take out really basic gameplay elements to intentionally make it more cumbersome".
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Aug 22, 2012 13:49
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Persona 1 was my very first MegaTen game and I went in with zero expectations and found it to be one of the few JRPGs that I would call unredeemable. I mean I've played some bad JRPGs, but none of them invoked the gut reaction that P1 did. Which is amazing because the story at its core is actually pretty decent, and I've enjoyed plenty of JRPGs for their story and placing the gameplay second. The gameplay is just that bad. And then I followed it up with P2 IS & EP, which collectively was one of my favorite JRPG experiences.
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Aug 22, 2012 16:04
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King of Solomon posted:Just out of curiosity, after an experience that bad, why on earth did you come back for Persona 2?
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Aug 22, 2012 17:27
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The P4 MC is seriously one of my favorite MegaTen characters. He's just so goofy.
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Aug 22, 2012 19:57
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Well, you played P3P right? And plan on playing P4G down the road I assume. If we can set those aside as a result, then it comes down to Nocturne and DDS1. Both of these games are pretty good, Nocturne in particular. I haven't played DDS2 yet but there are ~reasons~ that it isn't as good as DDS1. After that, I think the only other PS2 MegaTen game worth playing would be Devil Summoner 2, another game I haven't played but generally speaking doesn't seem to be in the same tier as Nocturne or DDS1.
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Aug 22, 2012 20:58
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It wouldn't be an internet argument if it didn't have hyperbole. But yeah, let's take a step back here and look at some of this a bit less subjectively. I have stated some rather extreme views on Persona 1 myself, but of course they will not apply to everyone. Even then almost everything I've said is based off of the original PS1 iteration, a game I think even Technique will agree is pretty bad (that localization alone...). The PSP remake is probably average enough if anyone wants to give a shot they will probably not have the reaction that I did, though I strongly hope they at least revamped the final dungeon. I think we can definitely say that Persona 3 and 4 are not "terrible". They have sold too well and garnered far too much praise to be described as such. Greatest ever? Well, no. Let's not go down that subjective road. But even if they are not terrible, there's plenty I can see someone just not caring for in these two games. It happens! I myself found much of Persona 3 to be mediocre. We are all beautiful unique snowflakes who will like some stuff more than the rest.
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Aug 22, 2012 21:19
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Ibram Gaunt posted:I just hope in the next Persona game they don't relegate all the party characters growth to s links and let them stay pretty one dimensional in the main story. That was a really dumb thing P4 did. Also to the people talking about the original idea for the killer's identity for P4: No, no, no, no. That was so loving stupid. SO loving stupid. It would have pretty much ruined the game. These words you keep saying, they are nonsense. The killer they stuck with was just fine (if not awesome). E: Also yes to "everyone levels up with the MC". They could at least do it like Suikoden, where anyone who lags behind will rapidly gain levels to catch up. There is really no reason not to do this other than wanting the player to dick around grinding some more. Nate RFB fucked around with this message at 00:58 on Aug 23, 2012 |
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Aug 23, 2012 00:52
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