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IShallRiseAgain posted:What is a good action combat mod for morrowind? I'm interested in checking out Tamriel Rebuilt, but want to try different combat for this playthrough. It should be OpenMW compatible too. using magic
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Nov 26, 2022 15:57
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I'm finding the vanilla combat to be very good actually. Fights are pretty scary and frantic, like a real life or death fight would be.
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Nov 26, 2022 17:19
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There's a few but openmw compatibility kindof kills it.
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Nov 26, 2022 17:24
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IMO make hits hit 100% of the time and use magic or bows if you have a mod that improves arrow behavior/damage. I’ve tried mods that are supposed to improve the combat and none have actually felt better than default without a chance of missing due to low skill.
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Nov 26, 2022 17:27
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Mr E posted:IMO make hits hit 100% of the time and use magic or bows if you have a mod that improves arrow behavior/damage. I’ve tried mods that are supposed to improve the combat and none have actually felt better than default without a chance of missing due to low skill. this is a zero iq opinion. i dont think i can call people the r word here so ill leave it at that
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Nov 26, 2022 17:40
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Mr E posted:IMO make hits hit 100% of the time and use magic or bows if you have a mod that improves arrow behavior/damage. I’ve tried mods that are supposed to improve the combat and none have actually felt better than default without a chance of missing due to low skill. Funnily enough at one point I posted an openmw source mod itt which makes all attacks hit but missed ones do 1 damage, so basically like oblivion in that respect. It was hastily put together and more proving a point about source modding but it should work if you're comfortable with cpp. Private Speech fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Nov 26, 2022 |
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Nov 26, 2022 17:41
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mbt posted:this is a zero iq opinion. i dont think i can call people the r word here so ill leave it at that I’m sorry for playing the single player game in a way you don’t like I’ll be sure to do better in the future
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Nov 26, 2022 17:47
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beer gas canister posted:I'm finding the vanilla combat to be very good actually. Fights are pretty scary and frantic, like a real life or death fight would be. I do like vanilla combat decently enough, but I played it a bazillion times and wanted to try something different if there was a mod for it.
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Nov 26, 2022 18:05
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There is one called "better balanced combat" which gives you 100% chance to hit, adds +1 fatigue regen and +1 magicka regen and +20 speed. Plays a lot like oblivion.
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Nov 26, 2022 18:37
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Mr E posted:I’m sorry for playing the single player game in a way you don’t like I’ll be sure to do better in the future thank you
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Nov 26, 2022 18:41
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Vanilla Morrowind has the best combat in any elder scrolls game. Oblivion has the worst.
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Nov 26, 2022 18:46
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They're both a bit mindless tbh, mostly I guess it's a choice between whether you want to spend a long time whiffing everything or just a long time clicking at everything.
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Nov 26, 2022 18:51
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If you go into combat with full stamina you won't actually miss that much. The game should admittedly do a better job of highlighting that low fatigue lowers hit chance
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Nov 26, 2022 18:53
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OwlFancier posted:They're both a bit mindless tbh, mostly I guess it's a choice between whether you want to spend a long time whiffing everything or just a long time clicking at everything. you can accurate hit things at level 1 if you set your weapon as a major skill and pick a race meant for that weapon. it's usually people trying to hit things with zero fatigue not realizing they have 50% less chance to hit compared with full fatigue. get a mod that makes running not drain fatigue (speed and stamina tweaked) and you fix combat
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Nov 26, 2022 18:54
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The fatigue thing is a problem yeah but also you move very slowly by default unless you max out speed (and ideally athletics but you obviously don't want to pick that as a major skill) and the idea of walking everywhere is basically unbearable. Plus you also probably want to use weapons you aren't that good at some of the time to train your different attributes which doesn't help. A lot of the basic enemies might as well not be there for how trivial they are to fight. Morrowind generally just doesn't seem to have much to make the combat interesting, either you're dunking on things in a couple of hits, missing a lot but perfectly capable of dunking them if you do hit, or the enemy has a giant pile of HP and takes ages to fight/is functionally unkillable at your level. It's quite rare that there is an encounter that is balanced for the player and even then all the strategies for improving your odds kind of amount to trying to cheese it. The game just doesn't have the mechanical depth of newer, more action focused games. It is a great exploration game but the combat is just not a great part of it I think. Speaking of exploration I wandered into Roa Dyr and that's a cool looking city. Shame everyone hates me, but it looks lovely. Dread to think what happens if you rock up as an argonian or khajiit though. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Nov 26, 2022 |
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Nov 26, 2022 19:10
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Morrowind's problem is that, I think, there's little felt difference between a skill of 15 and 30, you're still gonna feel like you're missing more than you hit. Over 60, you're going to hit most of your hits. So the scaling of combat effectiveness is on a weird curve where at low weapon skill levels you can't hit anything and it's frustrating sure. It jumps up to usable around 35 or 40 and once you're at 60 you're rarely missing, so levels over 60 aren't nearly as valuable. It decreases the amount of times you'll miss, but for the most part, you'll swing two or three times, hit each time, and kill your target the same at skill 60 as skill 80. It's something I ran into testing MDMD, where an enemy with skill 60 didn't feel like they hit me THAT less often than a skill 100. What mattered after that point was weapon quality and strength for staggers and damage bonuses? Diminishing returns, that's the badger. Because weapons always can do their maximum damage with each hit (damage being affected only by weapon stats and your strength), weapon skill only affects the chance you have to hit. Which means on a character primarily fighting with weapons, un-optimized you have a dull curve of being useless which shoots up to decent, and then levels off fast at "you will do your weapon's maximum damage most of the time each swing." Because Morrowind's actually a good game and there are very rare healthsponges, that means hitting someone two or three times with a two-handed sword will kill them. That in and of itself is a good thing, and very believable! Outside of enchantments, it turns high-level melee combat into rocket-tag of hoping you get the first hit in, which... okay! Is also honestly pretty realistic, actual sword fights last a few seconds mostly. I actually LIKE that part of it. Two people who know how to fight, using swords or spears or whatever, are going to settle things fairly quickly. Fumbling around and failing to get a good blow on each-other is the deal for unskilled fighters. The main problem, though, is the scaling being weird, with 60 being as good as 70 if your agility is decent. You'll suddenly hit a point where you're just... hitting, every time, with a few rare misses. I think that's narratively unsatisfying? Also, It has no mechanic to represent someone more skilled with a weapon also being harder to hit when they're using that weapon? I think my ideal combat system for Morrowind would be a bit more complex, with the difference in used weapon skills being taken into account. Someone with a higher weapon skill should get some kind of dodge-bonus to their how-hard-is-it-to-hit-me, maybe? Maybe allow Block to be used with any weapon scaled on weapon skill so trying to stab a level 100 swordguy with your level 50 swordguy and your sword still gets parried on some successful hits? Idk really. SOMEthing to highlight the granularity of weapon skills and ease the curve from "i can't hit" to "i can hit most times" to "i do max damage with each click", which right now is a very sharp and jarring curve. Mostly, I just feel the scale swings from "You are weak and helpless, everyone will make you their chewtoy" to "You are the god of this world" too fast. MDMD was my attempt at stretching out that period yeah! But I think the combat system could crave some work in some distant future where even the core mechanics are up for redesign. 4nm... tries! 4nm tries. But it is exceedingly Russian and exactly as janky. Its individual components are less ridiculous taken at their own, and the PvP one is... interesting? Enemies dodge attacks and there's a janky "parry" system but it's mostly controlled by who was swinging first (so fast-swinging weapons auto-parry all attacks, and slow swinging weapons can never hit...). Also the enemy dodges are really hard to keep up with and they do it a lot. It's very eastern european modcore but it's a thing. It was fun for a bit. That's also MWSE tho. There was combat enchanced which uh. Was. A Morrowind Enhanced mod, so. Options for OMW are pretty low since afaik most of the really good game programmers like abott etc prefer the already existing MWSE lua and don't want the effort of porting all their poo poo to OMW's different lua? Anyway. But mods that make it so you hit on every swing and adjust literally nothing else are just wholesale incredibly bad game design, though. Like, don't even bother taking weapon skills at that point, just walk around with a dwemer warhammer at level 1 and one-shot everything in the game. Or get a dagger with an enchantment and just spam stabcasting and kill everything. You might as well sethealth 0 at that point. If missing your attacks sometimes frustrates you, use a weapon you have skill in. Buy some scrolls and start the fight by blasting them with a Drathis' Winter Guest and summon a Skeleton Minion. Get a boosty potion! It gives you so many tools and I find most players never actually use the massive amount of tools they can use! Buy some health potions, get Controlled Consumption or something so you can't spam immortality through them. ULTIMATELY, Morrowind's combat is not elevated by any alteration of its "click to hit" system, it's that that's one PART of its combat system. It's a game with innumerable buffs, potions, enchantments, you can do so MUCH if you're creative it doesn't have to feel like the same character each time. Make a summoner character who buffs their summons with protective and healing spells. Make an enchantment-only character who has fireball gauntlets and a laser helmet. Mod throwing weapons to be worth a drat and be Dio Bizarre Adventure. Put Sanctuary on hit on self on your weapons and be immune to counter attacks. Weaponize Levitate to force enemies to hover mid-air helplessly. Morrowind contains a massive tool box, bust that boy open and use it. FlocksOfMice fucked around with this message at 19:28 on Nov 26, 2022 |
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Nov 26, 2022 19:25
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I mean, I think the issue is that the pen and paper style dice rolling system being abstracted into the background of the point and click action rpg interface just doesn't, and won't ever really work, the two are sort of at odds because if you see your weapon hit a dude and you lined up the attack, it should hit, trying to have both the manipulation of the character in the world and the dice rolly system doesn't really work I don't think. And I think it's telling that the magic system almost entirely forgoes it which is why "ignore weapons for the most part and cast magic all the time" is probably the best advice. But even then you have to really try, I think, to avoid cheesing things with spellmaking and enchanting.
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Nov 26, 2022 19:34
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FlocksOfMice posted:Morrowind's problem is that, I think, there's little felt difference between a skill of 15 and 30, you're still gonna feel like you're missing more than you hit. Over 60, you're going to hit most of your hits. So the scaling of combat effectiveness is on a weird curve where at low weapon skill levels you can't hit anything and it's frustrating sure. It jumps up to usable around 35 or 40 and once you're at 60 you're rarely missing, so levels over 60 aren't nearly as valuable. It decreases the amount of times you'll miss, but for the most part, you'll swing two or three times, hit each time, and kill your target the same at skill 60 as skill 80. this
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Nov 26, 2022 19:53
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i don't think percentile skills are good for an action rpg. "skills" should just be talent trees, each talent giving a distinct and interesting new advantage or action. for magic, gate effects or levels of effect behind levels of school mastery? eh, someone else can figure it out.
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Nov 26, 2022 20:00
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Doc Hawkins posted:i don't think percentile skills are good for an action rpg. "skills" should just be talent trees, each talent giving a distinct and interesting new advantage or action. for magic, gate effects or levels of effect behind levels of school mastery? eh, someone else can figure it out. Booo!
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Nov 27, 2022 00:26
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I haven't played Morrowind in over a decade and honestly never saw that much of the content. I watched a video about Tamriel Rebuilt and OpenMW in general and both seem like awesome projects and renewed my interest in the game. Glancing over some modlists, a lot of AliceL93's mods fleshing out and making quality of life changes to vanilla factions and content look like stuff that interests me, along with a few others that touch vanilla content like these two. Am I missing out on much by modding vanilla content as a new player? I don't know if I'll make it through multiple playthroughs of such a massive and janky game given my backlog so I'd rather squeeze the most out of one.
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Nov 27, 2022 00:57
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Tosk posted:I haven't played Morrowind in over a decade and honestly never saw that much of the content. I watched a video about Tamriel Rebuilt and OpenMW in general and both seem like awesome projects and renewed my interest in the game. Glancing over some modlists, a lot of AliceL93's mods fleshing out and making quality of life changes to vanilla factions and content look like stuff that interests me, along with a few others that touch vanilla content like these two. they're all a bit much (those two plus alicel's) you will not have a shortage of content, those are meant for 2nd playthroughs
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Nov 27, 2022 01:04
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mbt posted:they're all a bit much (those two plus alicel's) I've just heard that some of the questlines aren't very good, or a lot are fetch quests and haven't aged well. I thought that the modded content might be fleshed out a bit more and looks like it's crafted to fit in with the lore. But I know the game is huge so I'll probably just leave that stuff for another time.
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Nov 27, 2022 01:18
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Most of the questlines are good imo, even the ones that are on the fetch quest side send you to interesting areas and you will usually have adventures along the way. Off the top of my head the mages' guild sometimes gives you boring quests to make a point about mages' guild bureaucracy which is only funny the first time, and the Imperial Legion is so dull that I haven't heard anyone mention or acknowledge it in 20 years
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Nov 27, 2022 02:54
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Lunchmeat Larry posted:Most of the questlines are good imo, even the ones that are on the fetch quest side send you to interesting areas and you will usually have adventures along the way. Off the top of my head the mages' guild sometimes gives you boring quests to make a point about mages' guild bureaucracy which is only funny the first time, and the Imperial Legion is so dull that I haven't heard anyone mention or acknowledge it in 20 years the first quest with the axe gets you so loving amped and then its findign dwemer scrap metal for 8 quests
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Nov 27, 2022 02:55
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Mages guild is OK, temple starts you out with "walk across the entire island to places you probably don't even have on the map, get fleeced by the locals, maybe we'll give you a job afterwards, gently caress you" which IMO is very ahead of its time, really captures the job hunting experience. Honestly I really liked what I played of morrowind rebirth, although I think it is incompatible with tamriel rebuilt, it adds a lot of detail to the vvardenfel landmass and a lot of the settlements, also a bunch of new things to see and do. I also really like how it changes the magic balance and generally makes it a little harder to just steal endgame poo poo that's just lying around all over the place, adds a bit of progression to the game which is all over the loving place in vanilla. The couple of tamriel rebuilt dungeons I've done give me the impression that it's a lot more focused on dungeon delving and making full use of the utility stuff you can get in morrowind like levitation and water breathing. Which I think is generally good, as quest wise the game kind of only has fetch questing as what it can do, or "go and talk to this person" questing I guess. A lot of the places you get sent in vanilla are atmospheric but not... enormously mechanically complex. Lots of "here is a big dwemer ruin it's five rooms connected by corridors and there's a spider in each of them and at the end is a thing you need and it looks the same as all the other ones." There's a lot less variety between dungeons than you would get in say, skyrim, wherea a lot of them have a clear theme going. TR seems to be more modern in that respect in that I have done a couple of neat thematic dungeons. Vanilla dungeons get a bit stale after you've gone into the tenth near identical cave or ruin and fought the same pile of rats, randos with lovely gear, or dwemer spiders. Oh and ancestral tombs full of skeletons, that too. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 03:12 on Nov 27, 2022 |
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Nov 27, 2022 02:57
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I am on blood pressure meds and am therefore not allowed to talk about Morrowind Rebirth but please see my earlier posts ITT on its changes which at one point included making the Temple questline impossible to complete for balance reasons. It does add a lot of cool stuff as well and I'm probably being overly harsh, it just feels like it should be 10 different mods. Why is "big new cool tomb dungeon" and "spell balancing" and "Town expansion" all the same mod Lunchmeat Larry fucked around with this message at 03:07 on Nov 27, 2022 |
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Nov 27, 2022 03:05
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I think Rebirth sucks poo poo. It's anti-fun nonsense that nerfs poo poo for the sake of it. e:fb
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Nov 27, 2022 03:08
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It would be nice if it was a bunch of mods because I would like to use as much of it as possible with TR but yeah I have no idea how it would handle trying to mash the world changes together.
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Nov 27, 2022 03:10
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It definitely can work. This Let's Play uses Rebirth and Tamriel Rebuilt. Don't know how much loving around had to be done to get that to happen though. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w08TwfG3KDA
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Nov 27, 2022 03:12
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There is a compatibility patch, but it says it's not being updated any more and I have no tolerance for trying to do troubleshooting any more. I do like dave's LPs though.
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Nov 27, 2022 03:15
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Poopsocking Morrowind
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Nov 27, 2022 03:15
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Tosk posted:I've just heard that some of the questlines aren't very good, or a lot are fetch quests and haven't aged well. You have to understand that Morrowind is fundamentally a game about walk to one place and then walking to a different place.
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Nov 27, 2022 03:23
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Why walk when you can ride?
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Nov 27, 2022 03:27
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I guess I like MR's changes because I've never really gotten on with how morrowind does stuff in a lot of ways. Like being able to find endgame gear just laying around the place. Like just getting your hands on a glass weapon or something and you're like "oh I guess that whole element of the game is basically pointless now because I have virtually the best weapon" or it being seemingly very easy to just get endless money by doing basic soul trapping. I really like the setting of morrowind but I just can't get away with the mechanics or balancing. Like I was doing the archmage's quest to find out why the dwarves disppeared, with edwinna, and she sends me to go explore a bunch of ruins and they are all very cool looking with awesome spooky names and mysterious machinery, except realistically it's just a couple of rooms with spiders in and then I never have to go there again, there's nothing to find except the quest item. It's something I thought skyrim did really well with the massive ruins that connect to blackreach, some of the best exploration and dungeon delving in any game I think. And blackreach itself was full of awesome little bits of environmental storytelling with the various ruins you could look through in it, all just very atmospheric and fun to explore. I think why people are obsessed with recreating morrowind is that narratively it feels like it should evoke that same feeling, you have all the gorgeous alien architecture and wildlife and geography, the whole island seems like it's full of mystery, but after playing it for a while I can't help but feel that it is very predictable, all the dungeons are just... not as cool as they are in later games. I don't know if it's technical or if they just hadn't really gotten the idea of each one being a sort of story in itself yet, but they often feel very formulaic. So I like MR adding a bunch more little details and weirder dungeons and places to explore. TR seems like it does the same thing too in that respect. And scaling back on the availability of high end stuff keeps you having an impetus to go explore new places.
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Nov 27, 2022 03:33
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OwlFancier posted:I guess I like MR's changes because I've never really gotten on with how morrowind does stuff in a lot of ways. Like being able to find endgame gear just laying around the place. Like just getting your hands on a glass weapon or something and you're like "oh I guess that whole element of the game is basically pointless now because I have virtually the best weapon" or it being seemingly very easy to just get endless money by doing basic soul trapping. That's some first playthrough nonsense. Second playthrough you'll be ditching your glass armor at home because real bros wear boiled netch leather and the best weapon in the game was aquired at level 4 and has never moved from the table you set your cool looking weapons on aside from some minor rearranging. Somewhere there is a small chest you've filled entirely with diamonds and you're starting to run out of room in the container for them. You spent all the money Caius gave you on expensive clothes from the snotty breton lady in balmora.
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Nov 27, 2022 06:04
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I've never really enjoyed purely narrative games because I find that I would rather just read a book or something in that case, I do need some sort of mechanical element to the game to make it appealing (and, honestly, would likely find it easier to construct narrative out of mechanics than vice versa) so just ignoring a large chunk of what the game throws at me isn't... really a way I can enjoy playing it. It doesn't have to be perfect but I feel like I spend a lot of my time in morrowind fighting against the game to try and produce an interesting mechanical experience. I suppose I would have to say I think it misses more than it hits in that department 
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Nov 27, 2022 06:50
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Guildenstern Mother posted:That's some first playthrough nonsense. Second playthrough you'll be ditching your glass armor at home because real bros wear boiled netch leather and the best weapon in the game was aquired at level 4 and has never moved from the table you set your cool looking weapons on aside from some minor rearranging. Somewhere there is a small chest you've filled entirely with diamonds and you're starting to run out of room in the container for them. You spent all the money Caius gave you on expensive clothes from the snotty breton lady in balmora. gently caress yeah Plus I will never rebalance running or stamina, if you're running low you have too much crap in your pockets or armor on your rear end
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Nov 27, 2022 22:14
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I found a cave on the mainland that had a neat little excursion into madness and I got an iron spear that gives me 5 constant fatigue regen and jumping, so I have been running around with that. Far more useful than the actual quest reward which appaears to be a very expensive inert stick to hit things with. The TR landmass really is full of very beautiful and cool environments.
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Nov 27, 2022 22:35
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OwlFancier posted:I found a cave on the mainland that had a neat little excursion into madness and I got an iron spear that gives me 5 constant fatigue regen and jumping, so I have been running around with that. Far more useful than the actual quest reward which appaears to be a very expensive inert stick to hit things with. lol where is this?
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Nov 27, 2022 22:50
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