|
PT6A posted:Sherry-style wines don't age well in-bottle. Most people will recommend that you drink it within 12-18 months after bottling, I believe. Wait what? The oxidized styles will age for decades (amontillado, oloroso). The lighter styles (fino, manzanilla) not quite as long. Also, if it's sweetened it will obviously go for a long time.
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2016 01:44
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 27, 2024 04:53 |
|
|
Crimson posted:Wait what? The oxidized styles will age for decades (amontillado, oloroso). The lighter styles (fino, manzanilla) not quite as long. Also, if it's sweetened it will obviously go for a long time. They will age for decades in their criaderas and soleras, they will keep for 1-3 years optimally in bottle, depending on style. They don't go undrinkable right after that, of course, but they don't drink at their very best. http://www.sherry.wine/wines/conservation-serving (They would also disagree with calling that wine "sherry", of course -- does the US not have laws about that? We use 'apera' now In Canada, as does Australia, to describe wines of that style)
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2016 03:47
|
|
|
The United States has shown outright disdain for appellational usage regarding appellations abroad. I even heard a radio interview about a decade or more ago about a lawsuit the Chablis Consortium brought against Gall and lost. They talked to a lawyer representing Gallo and he said that he thought Gallo had brought more value to the word "Chablis" than Chablis did and that their (mis)usage of the term was more than appropriate. The interviewer asked what Gallo would do if someone in France used the name Gallo to make wine and he flatly replied, "Then we'd sue them." Edit: another great example is the Great Bastardization of Parmesan Cheese. Overwined fucked around with this message at 03:54 on Oct 3, 2016 |
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2016 03:52
|
|
|
Overwined posted:The United States has shown outright disdain for appellational usage regarding appellations abroad. I even heard a radio interview about a decade or more ago about a lawsuit the Chablis Consortium brought against Gall and lost. They talked to a lawyer representing Gallo and he said that he thought Gallo had brought more value to the word "Chablis" than Chablis did and that their (mis)usage of the term was more than appropriate. The interviewer asked what Gallo would do if someone in France used the name Gallo to make wine and he flatly replied, "Then we'd sue them." Parmesan isn't a protected term in Canada either, but the actual PDO is protected (Parmigiano-Reggiano). It's not ideal but it's okay. I have tilted at this particular windmill with Americans and (to a much lesser extent) Canadians and there's nothing for it -- people either "get it" or they don't. There's no convincing anyone on either side of the argument. My stance has always been: if you have a good product, you don't need to copy someone else's name. If you're proud of your product and your terroir, you'd embrace it, not hide from it.
|
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2016 04:11
|
|
|
HUGE PUBES A PLUS posted:Perhaps it will be acceptable for cooking then. Took a tiny sip and it is definitely sweet, smooth and creamy... It's going to get nothing but worse from the minute you opened it, so either make some nog, or enjoy it over the next few days. Stitecin fucked around with this message at 04:59 on Oct 3, 2016 |
|
#
?
Oct 3, 2016 04:57
|
|
|
my mother is getting into red wine under the guise of health benefits but she hates every wine she swallows; tastes too tannin. can someone help me discern (from bottle or brand) a cheap sweet wine? also, i don't know poo poo about wine but I'm gonna accuse this wine (Robert Mondavi Pinot noir) of adding distilled alcohol of that's a thing because that's how it tastes. i kinda like it's flavor though, and i usually hate wine, she hates it. please confirm. I've read the op. Verge fucked around with this message at 21:22 on Oct 7, 2016 |
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 21:14
|
|
|
Verge posted:my mother is getting into red wine under the guise of health benefits but she hates every wine she swallows; tastes too dry. can someone help me discern (from bottle or brand) a cheap sweet wine? It's illegal to add other alcohol to California wines that wasn't fermented naturally, unless so labeled. What you're tasting is bad winemaking so that the flavor of the alcohol come out because the wine is out of balance. It's a common trick of CA winemakers to add grape sugar to the must which will sweeten the wine, but also encourage more alcoholic fermentation. As far as what might be good for your mother, it's hard to say because people's palates are all different. In general, the more people drink, the more they prefer dry wines. And to be honest, drinking a wine with a ton of sugar in it is negating completely any of the health benefits. I would try to creep the wines upwards in sweetness until you find the driest possible wine your mother likes. Tell her it really helps the dryness to drink wine with food. Maybe try an Australian Shiraz? From there maybe a German Dornfelder?
|
|
#
?
Oct 7, 2016 21:22
|
|
|
I hate tannin (weird cause I love tea) but love dry. They are different things. I've tried a lot of what is considered 'beginner' wines because I told people that, and got a lot of overly sweet cheap lovely things and hated them all. I'd just take her to some cheap tastings and see what she likes.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2016 02:03
|
|
|
Verge posted:my mother is getting into red wine under the guise of health benefits but she hates every wine she swallows; tastes too tannin. can someone help me discern (from bottle or brand) a cheap sweet wine? The correct answer, for everything, is Cru Beaujolais.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2016 02:16
|
|
|
thanks guys. i don't know why i didn't think of taking her to a wine tasting, I'm in Eugene Oregon so I'm sure i can get that going. I'll see if they have the wines you recommended, overwined and Valerie. you guys are the best.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2016 10:18
|
|
|
There's probably a reasonable amount of Oregon Gamay out there to try, too, that will have similar qualities - lighter, fruity wine without much tannin or astringency.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2016 23:59
|
|
|
I'm spending 3 days in Loire Valley very soon (staying in Tours). I'm reading that Touraine also grows Gamay. I love Beaujolais, so I gotta try that. Anybody have tips for producers? Current gameplan: Saturday - Saumur, Chinon, Bourgueil Sunday - Tours City stuff, see Château de Chenonceau Monday - Montlouis, Vouvray Gonna try to hit a mix of tourist friendly wineries, tasting shops, and maybe an appointment only producer too.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 15:24
|
|
|
Years ago, I went to a Trade Show of Martine's Wines and there were a ton of great producers there. But one I really loved is a Loire guy that was doing extensive experiments with Gamay and even Gamay blended with Cabernet Franc. The owner/winemaker himself was there and I had a great time talking to him. I looked at the Martine's website and I think I was talking to Henry Marionnet. This is his winery. If I'm remembering correctly and if you are interested in Loire Gamay I highly recommend stopping in if you can.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 16:11
|
|
|
Henry Marrionet makes some great wine. I can also highly recommend Domaine de L'Ecu over in Muscadet country as a top notch producer of reds. I know they do a Cab Franc and an absolutely ethereal Pinot, think they also do Gamay.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2016 20:47
|
|
|
So now that the '15s from the Old World are starting to hit the market, what are your thoughts? Wines from the coolest regions such as Chablis and Sancerre seem good, especially at the village-level-or-equivalent where more ripeness than usual might be welcome, but almost unrecognisable: Chablis is tasting more pineapple and peach than citrus and pome fruit; Beaujolais more kirsch and Chambord than cherry and raspberry. Acids are definitely lower than usual. I worry that more prestigious sites that see more ripeness had too short of a season to develop aromatics. If I had to put my money down now, I'd say this vintage is going to prove more like 2003 than 2010 (or even 2005).
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2016 05:26
|
|
|
idiotsavant posted:Distributor? What state? If it isn't NY/NJ/CA i might have some sample action for you Yes.TEXAS! Austin specifically. I always mean to check into this thread more more often, but the wine makes me forget. Also, after harvest and crush, all of these winemakers have free time finally, and they've been visiting in droves. It's great and we absolutely love it, it's just busy as hell. Where are you?
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2016 17:09
|
|
|
Comb Your Beard posted:I'm spending 3 days in Loire Valley very soon (staying in Tours). I'm reading that Touraine also grows Gamay. I love Beaujolais, so I gotta try that. Anybody have tips for producers? Catherine and Pierre Breton are in Restigné. Lovely people who make lovely wines. They are producing Borgueil, Touraine, Chinon and Vouvray wines. Visits are coordinated by the email on their website. Slightly off the beaten path- Chateau d'Epire, and Pascal Janvier. Chenin blanc that will bring a tear to the purist's eye. North of Tours in the Sur Loir.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2016 17:30
|
|
|
Kasumeat posted:So now that the '15s from the Old World are starting to hit the market, what are your thoughts? Wines from the coolest regions such as Chablis and Sancerre seem good, especially at the village-level-or-equivalent where more ripeness than usual might be welcome, but almost unrecognisable: Chablis is tasting more pineapple and peach than citrus and pome fruit; Beaujolais more kirsch and Chambord than cherry and raspberry. Acids are definitely lower than usual. I worry that more prestigious sites that see more ripeness had too short of a season to develop aromatics. If I had to put my money down now, I'd say this vintage is going to prove more like 2003 than 2010 (or even 2005). I can't remember where, but I was reading an article a few weeks ago that postulated that an avg. temp a degree or so higher would yield optimum conditions for grape growing in the Loire. Balance that with the fact that unpredictable hail storms destroyed so much of 2016, IDK. Buy 2015, and buy in quantity is what I would say. The Loire is showing a ripeness that is bordering on flashy depending on the winemakers' tactics, but the wines have a depth similar to 2010. 2016 is a brewing shitstorm. Vignerons are writing off entire crops. Beaujolais had a particularly rough time of it. It will be interesting to see what happens, but suffice it to say, there will be much less 2016 than 2015 for sale.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2016 17:40
|
|
|
Kasumeat posted:So now that the '15s from the Old World are starting to hit the market, what are your thoughts? Wines from the coolest regions such as Chablis and Sancerre seem good, especially at the village-level-or-equivalent where more ripeness than usual might be welcome, but almost unrecognisable: Chablis is tasting more pineapple and peach than citrus and pome fruit; Beaujolais more kirsch and Chambord than cherry and raspberry. Acids are definitely lower than usual. I worry that more prestigious sites that see more ripeness had too short of a season to develop aromatics. If I had to put my money down now, I'd say this vintage is going to prove more like 2003 than 2010 (or even 2005). I convinced myself to buy a bunch of pre-arrival 2015 Bordeaux (mostly right bank merlot from cold, clayey soils) as an "investment" so I hope it all works out. We'll find out in several years! I do like the idea of lower acid Beaujolais and might go out and get some
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2016 06:28
|
|
|
Comb Your Beard posted:I'm spending 3 days in Loire Valley very soon (staying in Tours). I'm reading that Touraine also grows Gamay. I love Beaujolais, so I gotta try that. Anybody have tips for producers? Ominous Balls posted:Yes.TEXAS! Austin specifically. California Bay Area! Do you have pms? Just released some of my 14s!
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2016 21:15
|
|
|
This might be a long shot, but has anyone had success pairing wines with Sichuan cuisine? Specifically mapo dofu. I'm having a few friends over in a couple of weeks and they've requested wine and spicy ma la action and I'm a bit stumped. Maybe reisling? Any reds spring to mind?
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2016 23:20
|
|
|
Not red but I'm Asian and my live for trimbach gerwurtztraminer is partially because of how well it pairs with Asian food.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2016 03:04
|
|
|
PatMarshall posted:This might be a long shot, but has anyone had success pairing wines with Sichuan cuisine? Specifically mapo dofu. Off-dry whites are the safest choice, but try to avoid high acid. Pinot Gris and Gewurz are better bets than Riesling. Reds aren't my first choice, but jammy new world reds are actually surprisingly good here, just try to avoid excess alcohol and tannin. You could actually do a lot worse than Meomi Pinot Noir, something I don't say often. That said, I find many people who regularly eat very spicy food actually enjoy wines that exacerbate the spicy sensation, such as Barolo or Bordeaux, so if they're true sichuanren then pile on the pain. Also lovely lagers. Kasumeat fucked around with this message at 04:39 on Oct 27, 2016 |
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2016 04:36
|
|
|
Thanks Y'all. I'll probably pick up a few gewurztraminers and stick a six-pack in the fridge as well. I've got some Bordeaux and Burgundy kicking around for anyone looking for pain lol.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2016 15:45
|
|
|
Sparkling off-dry pet nat and/or good cider
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2016 19:18
|
|
|
Is it my imagination or is Sauvignon Blanc becoming the next Pinot Grigio really quickly? gently caress sake, people, we don't need 200 subpar examples of a varietal, invariably expressing piss all for terroir because the grapes are sourced from all across hell's half acre anyway. Meanwhile, in a world with limited shelf-space (not to mention good growing areas), its crowding out better wines that could actually be somewhat unique. Maybe it's just my imagination, but it seems like South African sections falling victim to this in a big way right now -- Steen is disappearing to be replaced with yet more SB and PG.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2016 01:11
|
|
|
Sadly, jumping on a varietal bandwagon makes a lot of sense for quantity producers. In a market with huge choice and where is very hard to build a brand in competition with old world nobles, new world cults etc, the simple thing is just to put whatever is in fashion on the label and hope that it helps shift a few bottles.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2016 14:16
|
|
|
Thanks to whoever recommended Wine Folly, it's been really interesting and is going to guide my next wine purchases.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2016 14:43
|
|
|
Ola posted:Sadly, jumping on a varietal bandwagon makes a lot of sense for quantity producers. In a market with huge choice and where is very hard to build a brand in competition with old world nobles, new world cults etc, the simple thing is just to put whatever is in fashion on the label and hope that it helps shift a few bottles. It isn't a new thing, either. IIRC historical data shows CA farmers chasing the next big grape since the start of commercial wine grape farming in the state.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2016 07:32
|
|
|
The one thing lacking from this discussion is that the large producers are generally following a lead from a smaller, more innovative producer. I bring this up because the way the argument is framed now it looks like the CA wine industry is somehow monolithic, simply moving towards towards whatever it thinks will be popular. As idiotsavant said, this is nothing new. To me this can represent a positive thing. Take the resurgence of Rhone varietals, particularly Grenache and Syrah, as a prime example.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2016 16:56
|
|
|
Overwined posted:Take the resurgence of Rhone varietals, particularly Grenache and Syrah, as a prime example.
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2016 21:06
|
|
|
CA winemakers and distributors tell me over and over again that they can't sell Syrah to save their lives.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2016 06:31
|
|
|
I gotta say, I don't quite get the appeal of California Syrah, on a personal nor a professional level. Consumers are wary of it because of the radically different styles it's made in. The riper versions are generic modern red wines at premium prices but without the consumer recognition of Cabernet or Zinfandel. And personally, I find the more elegant versions (Qupe is great) aren't bad at all, but I've never really been impressed for anything less than $60 for a bottle of something comparable to $35 Crozes-Hermitage, and they never come close to the magic of great Cote-Rotie or Cornas. Or even great Collines Rhodaniennes, frankly. Grenache has potential though, especially a budget wine. Its relatively neutral aromatics, fruitiness, and soft structure are all perfect for a successful mass-market wine, and it does fairly well when cropped at high yields. It's fighting for a similar space as Zinfandel, but I think Zin has enough of a "trashy" image that Grenache could be marketed as a more sophisticated alternative.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2016 07:45
|
|
|
I was actually having that exact discussion with a cellarmate about the relative boringness of Cali Syrah, at least as varietal versions. Most of the time it just ends up being ripe and generic. I think it can play a really nice role as a blending component to bring acid and structure to a wine, but good solo versions seem pretty far & few between. I have a 2014 Syrah/Grenache blend in bottle that I'm really excited about, because I feel like it hits a lot of those old world notes and ended up as a complex, compelling wine, but I also made a single vineyard syrah this year that I'm wondering about. It's still brand new, and it should be good, sound wine, but it doesn't yet have that certain liveliness to it that gets me excited about a wine. Everything about the vineyard would make you think it'd grow good grapes, but for some reason it just feels a little flat. edit: Have you had any Renaissance Syrahs, Kasumeat? I dunno if they're still under $60 - they should be - and they can be killer. idiotsavant fucked around with this message at 19:18 on Nov 6, 2016 |
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2016 19:12
|
|
|
I agree that most of the big name, expensive Syrahs are pretty generic, particularly in Napa. When you overripen it and put it in a bunch of new oak it's all gonna taste the same. But there are plenty of good producers in my opinion - Arnot Roberts, Kivelstadt, Peay, Red Car, Radio Coteau, Ridge. Hell, I think Copain and DuMOL can both be pretty tasty. Pax's wines are also delicious with some age. Obviously I vastly prefer Sonoma wines to Napa.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2016 22:00
|
|
|
Crimson posted:I agree that most of the big name, expensive Syrahs are pretty generic, particularly in Napa. When you overripen it and put it in a bunch of new oak it's all gonna taste the same. But there are plenty of good producers in my opinion - Arnot Roberts, Kivelstadt, Peay, Red Car, Radio Coteau, Ridge. Hell, I think Copain and DuMOL can both be pretty tasty. Pax's wines are also delicious with some age. Most of those wines you list aren't available here, but those that are such as Arnot Roberts, Peay, and Radio Coteau are $80-100. I've only had the Radio Coteau and the Ridge which I didn't enjoy as much so I can't say for sure about the others. Was the Radio Coteau a good wine? Sure, even great. Is it a good buy at $100 a bottle? Not for me. At that price you can be getting Cote Rotie from Faury, Garon, Rostaing, Cuilleron, etc., and it doesn't quite compete with those.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2016 06:32
|
|
|
Kasumeat posted:Most of those wines you list aren't available here, but those that are such as Arnot Roberts, Peay, and Radio Coteau are $80-100. I've only had the Radio Coteau and the Ridge which I didn't enjoy as much so I can't say for sure about the others. Was the Radio Coteau a good wine? Sure, even great. Is it a good buy at $100 a bottle? Not for me. At that price you can be getting Cote Rotie from Faury, Garon, Rostaing, Cuilleron, etc., and it doesn't quite compete with those. I don't have a whole bunch of experience with these wines, but I do know from past experience that Rostaing Cote-Rotie is very much My poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2016 15:15
|
|
|
Kasumeat posted:Most of those wines you list aren't available here, but those that are such as Arnot Roberts, Peay, and Radio Coteau are $80-100. I've only had the Radio Coteau and the Ridge which I didn't enjoy as much so I can't say for sure about the others. Was the Radio Coteau a good wine? Sure, even great. Is it a good buy at $100 a bottle? Not for me. At that price you can be getting Cote Rotie from Faury, Garon, Rostaing, Cuilleron, etc., and it doesn't quite compete with those. Well, that may be your preference, but Arnot-Roberts and Radio Coteau are in a totally different style from Cote-Rotie AND from the aforementioned status quo Syrahs so they're kind of hard to compare. Also, I have Radio Coteau "Los Colinas" for $65 on my list and it retails for around $50. Arnot-Roberts entry level Syrah is even cheaper, but simultaneously harder to get here (east coast). I only mention price to highlight that the prices you're quoting are outliers and true for you, but not indicative of the relative prices at the winery. idiotsavant posted:How do you see that gibing with the last stab at Syrah, where it was hyped like crazy as the next big CA grape and then fell flat on its face? I agree with you guys that the "First Wave" Syrah and Grenache producers, the people that did it before and whine about not being able to sell it, almost universally make mediocre wine. But, the new hotness seems to come from cooler climates where Syrah develops some high-toned purple fruits and develops a high level of elegance. That being said, I see a lot more interesting experimentation with the other Rhone varietals and southern France varietals in general. They can't all be Pinot Noir producers  EDIT: A lot of the "First Wave" people started making Syrah when Australian Shiraz was hot and that's certainly suspicious motivation. Overwined fucked around with this message at 17:41 on Nov 7, 2016 |
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2016 17:35
|
|
|
Overwined posted:Well, that may be your preference, but Arnot-Roberts and Radio Coteau are in a totally different style from Cote-Rotie AND from the aforementioned status quo Syrahs so they're kind of hard to compare. Also, I have Radio Coteau "Los Colinas" for $65 on my list and it retails for around $50. Arnot-Roberts entry level Syrah is even cheaper, but simultaneously harder to get here (east coast). I only mention price to highlight that the prices you're quoting are outliers and true for you, but not indicative of the relative prices at the winery. Oh absolutely I'm talking personal preference here. Trying to compare wines objectively is . . . challenging. But I don't think I'm in the minority in that if I'm going to go out and spend about a hundred bucks on a bottle of Syrah (a pretty small group of consumers), I'd prefer to do it on the French. And the prices I'm quoting aren't outliers, it's just that I'm in Toronto. Us paying about double the domestic price for American wine is pretty standard. I don't think it's unfair to compare prices on imported wine to imported wine though. Rents are high and restaurants by law must pay full retail on imported wine, so you'll find the RC Pinot Noir on wine lists here for about $200, the Syrah for about $300. Outrageous I know, but the reality for American wine abroad.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2016 19:11
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 27, 2024 04:53 |
|
|
Isn't that just Canada though that has to pay full retail? I don't think that's the case everywhere. And I thought that wasn't even the case everywhere in Canada. Yeah I wouldn't pay $100 retail for any of those wines either, but at $50 and less I think they're drat good.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2016 22:47
|
|