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King Vidiot
Feb 17, 2007

The video arcade made me what I am today!


SolidSnakesBandana posted:

Either that, or you don't actually play the games and just compare mod feature lists

Oh you're right I don't have like 300 hours in New Vegas and over 100 hours in Fallout 4.

The Conelrad thing was a stretch, there's like maybe three songs that were in Conelrad that are in Fallout 4 (Atom Bomb Baby, Uranium Fever and Crawl Out Through the Fallout).

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SolidSnakesBandana
Jul 1, 2007

Infinite ammo


King Vidiot posted:

Oh you're right I don't have like 300 hours in New Vegas and over 100 hours in Fallout 4.

Well yeah you have to keep loading the game up and starting new dudes to make sure your mods don't crash the game

King Vidiot
Feb 17, 2007

The video arcade made me what I am today!


At least 10-20 of those hours were from my recent playthrough where I'd play the game for like an hour and then it'd motherfucking crash on me. Then I'd uninstall a mod and it'd crash, uninstall a mod and it'd crash... then it was stable for a while so I installed a mod and it crashed.

Now it's finally stable again until the next time I decide to install a gigantic 500mb mod.

Raygereio
Nov 12, 2012


SolidSnakesBandana posted:

B) Whatever mods you're speaking of that "inspired" Fallout 4 features were janky as gently caress, as are all mods that add significant features to New Vegas. Like if you seriously expect a settlement building mod for New Vegas to be even remotely on the same level of quality as the entire settlement building aspect of Fallout 4, then you are truly insane. Either that, or you don't actually play the games and just compare mod feature lists
Bethesda has way more resources then modders and direct access to the inner bits of the engine, so off course their stuff is going to be more polished then what modders can jury rig together. But that's not the point: Bethesda looks at the modding scene to see what works, what's popular and what's something they could use.

And calling that "ripping off" is a dumb way to look at it. It's a good thing for developers & modders to interact in that way.

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

And as mentioned, Obsidian did the same thing. Even with something like OWB, they looked at mods and saw people wanted a better player home, so they put one in

greasynig
Aug 14, 2017



Yeah, getting ideas from mods to be honest shouldn't be shunned. Bethesda's one of the only companies that not only tolerate modding but openly support it. Hell, they've even hired modders in the past.

Internet Wizard
Aug 9, 2009

Hope you don't mind if I just take a little rest here. Feel free to join me...

greasynig posted:

Yeah, getting ideas from mods to be honest shouldn't be shunned. Bethesda's one of the only companies that not only tolerate modding but openly support it. Hell, they've even hired modders in the past.

Noted Worst Developer in the World Blizzard has even had the temerity to incorporate mod functionality into the very game the mods were originally made for!

Malpais Legate
Oct 1, 2014



Far Harbor was interesting until I got to the part where I was locked in a room with a robot that exploded like a Mini Nuke on death, instantly killing me.

When I finally surpassed that obstacle I was rewarded with a (mandatory?) virtual reality tower defense mini game using the already really janky and poorly implemented settlement building console.

I stopped playing again after that.

SpookyLizard
Feb 17, 2009


I don't know if Bethesda has specifically acknowledged which modders they take inspiration from, but Obsidian looked at the modding scene for FO3 and specifically acknowledged which modders they based their own ideas off of (like the FO3 one that added weapon mods) and gave kudos to those people. It is undeniably part of the life cycle of a lot of games though.

Also, while I could give a gently caress about actual settlement building, I did love the mods that let me clean up the various settlements, because I find it strangely cathartic.

chitoryu12
Apr 23, 2014

We can't stop here! This is cat country!


Yeah, I don't have any problem with a developer using the mod scene to figure out new ideas for future games. That's just looking at what the market wants to see and building it in better than a modder could do it.

My problem with "Brain Dead" in Far Harbor is that it was pretty blatantly taking story ideas from someone. That's a big no-no in any circle, if only on the grounds of being a dick.

Avalerion
Oct 19, 2012


I would be surprised if there isn't something in the eula that states anything made with their toolset belongs to bethesda.

SpookyLizard
Feb 17, 2009


There is.

Skwirl
May 13, 2007

No you're wrong

Avalerion posted:

I would be surprised if there isn't something in the eula that states anything made with their toolset belongs to bethesda.



Yeah, but it's never been tested in court, so who knows how enforceable that is. Like I sincerely doubt the guy who made Autumn Leaves could sue Bethesda, but apparently he's talked about making a standalone version of Autumn Leaves, would Bethesda be able to stop him from making that, since he already made a version of it using their toolset? Or The Witcher developers have said it's okay to port their armors and weapons over to other games, does that mean Bethesda now owns the copyright on those armors?

whydirt
Apr 18, 2001


Gaz Posting Brigade

Something can be legal and still in poor taste.

2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!

When I saw the guy posting the similarities between his mod and the Fallout 4 quest he wasn't even mad about it, iirc he suggested that the similarities were really superficial and he was mainly pointing them out to get more attention to his mod

Raygereio
Nov 12, 2012


chitoryu12 posted:

My problem with "Brain Dead" in Far Harbor is that it was pretty blatantly taking story ideas from someone. That's a big no-no in any circle, if only on the grounds of being a dick.
Every writer blatantly steals. Any writer who claims they never took an idea or concept from someone else is either lying or just not aware they're doing it. There's nothing wrong with taking something you think is cool and putting it in your work.

The only dumb thing about it was Peter Hines from Bethesda vehemently denying any link between Far Harbor's Brain Dead and Autumn Leaves and that it was all just coincidence. Just go and admit some devs thought Autumn Leaves was awesome. Modders will love that.

Raygereio fucked around with this message at Aug 15, 2017 around 18:18

SpookyLizard
Feb 17, 2009


Skwirl posted:

Yeah, but it's never been tested in court, so who knows how enforceable that is. Like I sincerely doubt the guy who made Autumn Leaves could sue Bethesda, but apparently he's talked about making a standalone version of Autumn Leaves, would Bethesda be able to stop him from making that, since he already made a version of it using their toolset? Or The Witcher developers have said it's okay to port their armors and weapons over to other games, does that mean Bethesda now owns the copyright on those armors?

Bethesda could arguably own the implementation of then Witcher stuff, but probably not the actual stuff, since you don't really do modelling or any thing like that in the GECK software. If you want to make or important any new armors or weapons in these games you need to use stuff like blender and nifskope, which isn't contained in the creation kit.

Of course whether or not the EULA stands up in court is a separate matter, and I'm not sure if it claims to give Bethesda full ownership of whatever is made in it, or just the right to claim ownerhsip or stuff or just the relevant files that are produced by the software.

Xander77
Apr 6, 2009

Fuck it then. For another pit sandwich and some 'tater salad, I'll post a few more.


Raygereio posted:


The only dumb thing about it was Peter Hines from Bethesda vehemently denying any link between Far Harbor's Brain Dead and Autumn Leaves and that it was all just coincidence.
What are those? Googling just gives me a song.

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Basic Chunnel
Sep 21, 2010

Jesus! Jesus Christ! Say his name! Jesus! Jesus! Come down now!



Bethesda wouldn't own any material from pre-existing copyrights modded into their games, they'd be on the hook for infringement, which is why Sony has shot down any substantial modding support on PS4.

As for modders handing over their rights, that's pretty standard creative industry stuff for submissions so I'd imagine it would hold up in court.

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