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Hating on homosexuals and being weird about sex and subjugating women and white supremacy are very much Western values and have been deeply embedded in Western culture for a very long time though? (And often have been exported to places the west colonized that didn't have those things already.) Who are we kidding here? Also the narrative that the West is more enlightened and needs to teach the rest of the world what to believe for their own good is a long-held Western tradition.
Bob le Moche fucked around with this message at 18:00 on Dec 25, 2014 |
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Dec 25, 2014 17:58
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| # ¿ Apr 28, 2024 10:31 |
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Disinterested posted:Did you skip the entire discussion, or something? Uhh yeah I just re-read the discussion and you're right, so sorry about that. I agree that you don't appease islamophobic xenophobia by going "but look there are moderate model minority muslims who can assimilate with Western values" because this is just another way of reinforcing the implicit framing where Western = more civilized. It might actually be more productive to attack that cultural superiority complex and dethrone liberal ideology instead? One might be into the abstract ideas of enlightenment liberalism for all kinds of reasons but in practice these days, liberal rhetoric is often what is employed to rationalize racism or imperialism.
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Dec 25, 2014 19:03
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What libertarians like Rothbard basically want is a brutal corporate fascist state. To them though what they call the "state" means anything that pretends to be democratic or have any kind of accountability to the people as opposed to being the direct instrument of dictatorship by the randian ubermensch. They are opposed to anything that would impede the "freedom" of the deserving elite to do as they please with everyone else. That way they get to pretend to be anti-government while they fantasize about the unshackled (privately owned) police/military, justice system, prisons, schools, media, etc. their utopian society will have at its disposition to maintain order and punish the rabble. The whole liberty/freedom rehtoric is just Orwellian doublespeak, it exists because of the importance given to these ideals in US nationalist mythology.
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Jan 4, 2015 21:07
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Yeah there's no such thing as "systemic injustice" in the just-world right-wing ideology. If women get paid less it's because they deserve less, if black people go to prison more it's because they have ciminal tendencies, etc...
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Jan 4, 2015 23:57
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Conservatives simply have internalized the values of the society which produced them. I don't think they're the people that efforts to change society should be focused on.
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Jan 5, 2015 00:48
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The whole facade that American-style libertarianism cares about the "no coercion" stuff falls apart instantly once you ask them how private property will be enforced.
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Jan 6, 2015 20:35
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It's TYRANNY for the government to tax my profits because that would be the same as slavery, but it's totally OK for me to offer you the FREE choice between starving or letting me take everything that you produce in exchange for a subsistence wage. Sorry there's no coercion happening here at all I just happen to own all the means of production somehow (how did that happen huh) and you can only use them on my terms because private property is the fundamental basis of all morality or something
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Jan 7, 2015 19:18
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| # ¿ Apr 28, 2024 10:31 |
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It's OK you guys the young woman I paid to have sex with gave me her CONSENT everything is fine
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Jan 7, 2015 19:21
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