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notZaar posted:To be honest a little DLC wouldn't have hurt DMC4, it's sitting on my hard drive unplayed. DLC can be done right and it can add a lot to a game, or it can be done wrong and just be worthless baubles that are too expensive and add nothing to the experience. I'm a little surprised they didn't take advantage of any DLC for DMC4 really. A Trish mode or whatever. Then again, considering that they just recycled the first half of the game for Dante's section... That's really a big issue for the game, that and you can't start off as Dante (unless you cheat). It would have benefited from DMC2's seperate campaign type thing - assuming they made new content and such. [e]: Another Preview. The sycthe apparently belonged to Eva, and the axe to Sparda. Or something. I still think the 5 hour preview, where the writer said "This is what's good, this is what's bad" was better than this one. [e2]: And in other DmC news, Dante's rival for Playstation All Stars is Heavenly Swords's Nariko in an example of videogame Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at 18:36 on Nov 8, 2012 |
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Nov 8, 2012 12:32
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Gamespot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03oojyhOwi0 Gamespot employees have never obviously played a previous DMC. NT will "satirise" the fan reaction to the brunet Dante at the begining of the game. This was mentioned in the playtester's account; a white wig lands on Dante's head, and he goes "Not in a million years". How droll Ninja Theory. How very droll. Obviously that's where all the script budget went, yes? Between that and the 'gently caress yous'?  Anyway, onto gameplay mechanics that the Capcom site has updated with (with info stolen from DMC.org): "White Orbs act as a subunit to the greater Upgrade Point. Collect enough White Orbs, and they turn into an Upgrade Point. Sorta like a dollar and pennies (or what have you). The icon that tells you how many Upgrade Points you have in the HUD is a circle, that slowly fills up with a greater white section as you collect more White Orbs. Then once the circle is full, DING~ Another Upgrade Point. You can even sell skills to get back the Point (a la DMC4), and you can even try out moves before you buy them." So they're sort of like Proud Souls or something?
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Nov 8, 2012 21:40
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Pesky Splinter posted:NT will "satirise" the fan reaction to the brunet Dante at the begining of the game. This was mentioned in the playtester's account; a white wig lands on Dante's head, and he goes "Not in a million years". This is so dumb. Why would you start a reboot by flipping off everyone that bought the game because of fond memories of the previous title(s)? The one way I can think of to save this would be to do something like having the white wig be an unlockable for replay, but I'm pretty sure they won't do that. They seem way too smug to acknowledge the previous games fondly. I haven't even played the previous games and their attitude irritates me.
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Nov 8, 2012 21:51
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Considering his hair still goes white in demon form or whatever I doubt that's actually "satirizing" (what?) the fan reaction so much as it's a predictable bit of characterization that symbolically foreshadows how he will have to learn to accept his ~true nature~ in a series of very Art cutscenes.
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Nov 8, 2012 21:53
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Guydoingthis posted:This is so dumb. Why would you start a reboot by flipping off everyone that bought the game because of fond memories of the previous title(s)? They would do it because Ninja Theory is just SO HARDCORE and is super cool. Ninja Theory has this cocky attitude in everything they have released about dmc partly because the gaming press has been blowing smoke up their asses at every opportunity. I'm really not sure why so many media people are acting like its impossible for NT to make a bad choice about dmc. Actually I'm really not sure why Capcom even got NT to do this game from the beginning. Why wouldn't you try to get a studio with a track record for good games and successful games. poo poo Enslaved bombed so hard I'm surprised that NT even survived it.
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Nov 8, 2012 22:01
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Bonaventure posted:Considering his hair still goes white in demon form or whatever I doubt that's actually "satirizing" (what?) the fan reaction so much as it's a predictable bit of characterization that symbolically foreshadows how he will have to learn to accept his ~true nature~ in a series of very Art cutscenes. Ordinarily, I'd agree with you, but this is Ninja Theory we're talking about. Though to be fair, it is Gamespot making the claim that the scene is "satire", not NT. randombattle posted:I'm really not sure why so many media people are acting like its impossible for NT to make a bad choice about dmc. Actually I'm really not sure why Capcom even got NT to do this game from the beginning. Why wouldn't you try to get a studio with a track record for good games and successful games. poo poo Enslaved bombed so hard I'm surprised that NT even survived it. According to this article, even Heavenly Sword lost them money - the publisher broke even, but NT didn't. I shudder to think how much net loss they made from Enslaved though; mocap and Andy Serkis don't come cheap I imagine. If DmC: Devil may Cry doesn't turn up a reasonable profit, then it's probably bye-bye NT...and, at the whims of Capcom, bye-bye DMC - unless they're using the New Coke marketing strategy, and announce a DMC5 or something. Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at 22:37 on Nov 8, 2012 |
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Nov 8, 2012 22:33
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Pesky Splinter posted:If DmC: Devil may Cry doesn't turn up a reasonable profit, then it's probably bye-bye NT...and, at the whims of Capcom, bye-bye DMC - unless they're using the New Coke marketing strategy, and announce a DMC5 or something. At this point, I'm just telling myself it's all an elaborate setup by Capcom that boils down to them telling NT to come play with the big boys just to see how hard they can get smacked back down to the minor leagues
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Nov 8, 2012 22:37
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Which character is Andy Serkis playing in this game?
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Nov 8, 2012 22:51
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I think it's just a case of Capcom acknowledging that there were (well founded) criticisms of DMC4, but rather than addressing the problems people had with it (despite the healthy sales figures), they're lusting after COD numbers and figuring that the best way to do it is via a Western developer. Because, obviously, all Western games sell by the twenty billions. Why they chose NT of all developers I have no clue - it's obvious they haven't ever hit COD numbers, their games lose money, and worst of all, they make "art" games. These aren't games to be "played", these are things to look at and say, "My, isn't this a deep story". They don't make it for the gameplay, they make it for the "visual experience". Which is all fine and dandy, but giving them the keys to a series which is known for its deep combat is asking for trouble. That loving Sned posted:Which character is Andy Serkis playing in this game? All of them. I wish!
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Nov 8, 2012 22:54
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Pesky Splinter posted:I think it's just a case of Capcom acknowledging that there were (well founded) criticisms of DMC4, but rather than addressing the problems people had with it (despite the healthy sales figures), they're lusting after COD numbers and figuring that the best way to do it is via a Western developer. I can't fathom why they thought they were going to sell more games with a completely retooled DMC with NT developing. Has any NT game even hit DMC4 numbers? I could see letting them handle art asset development or something (despite the mediocre/lovely gameplay their titles really are stunningly nice looking by and large) but just giving them the whole thing and going "Welp, do as you will!" seems like a bad idea. I mean, I could have told 'em that before the first screenshot of the game hit. Someone said before that Capcom was working with them on the combat engine development- I have yet to see any evidence of this besides the fact that it appears to not have the Suck turned all the way up to 11. Also the fact that it basically uses Heavenly Sword's control scheme and they were OK with that is really annoying.
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Nov 8, 2012 23:09
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Monkey Fracas posted:I can't fathom why they thought they were going to sell more games with a completely retooled DMC with NT developing. Has any NT game even hit DMC4 numbers? I could see letting them handle art asset development or something (despite the mediocre/lovely gameplay their titles really are stunningly nice looking by and large) but just giving them the whole thing and going "Welp, do as you will!" seems like a bad idea. I mean, I could have told 'em that before the first screenshot of the game hit. My problem with their art from what I've seen so far is that Dante really does not stand out at all in any of the screenshots I've seen. The design work on the environments is actually pretty fantastic (Even though it seems like it would have been a better fit in a new IP, where platforming was more of a focus)but the problem is that it draws all of the focus away from Dante, who just looks drab by comparison. Take this screenshot for example:  Dante just blends into the environment. Without the red coat, he doesn't really have anything that draws your eye to him like there was previously. It gets even worse in situations like this:  Here you're being actively drawn away by Dante by all the colour in the environment while Dante remains pretty dull and uninteresting. It's also kinda weird how Dante's coat always seems to match the colour of the background, instead of standing out like the classic design did. It's just a real problem I've been having with stuff I've been seeing of the game, it makes the combat less laser focused on Dante and what he's doing than the previous games and consequently seems like more of a mess.
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Nov 9, 2012 00:11
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His design has been deliberately muted, to keep in with their attempt at a "realistic" style Dante. It's so grey and brown and bland. And that jacket really isn't helping.   Odd that they go so far with Dante's design, but they stray comparatively less with Vergil's...  
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Nov 9, 2012 00:44
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I suspect they really wanted Dante to "pop" in Devil Trigger mode to make it distinctive, except... well, that's not really good for the rest of the game.
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Nov 9, 2012 00:45
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ImpAtom posted:I suspect they really wanted Dante to "pop" in Devil Trigger mode to make it distinctive, except... well, that's not really good for the rest of the game. "Hey you guys ya know what's awesome? The classic Dante look. Oooh, but our game is gritty and brown, that would look out of place."
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Nov 9, 2012 00:51
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Why do they keep using people who didn't play the other games to comment on them? They even explicitly say that "I never played the others but I can confirm that this is just as good!" Is that supposed to be taken seriously?
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Nov 9, 2012 18:47
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Uncle Wemus posted:Why do they keep using people who didn't play the other games to comment on them? They even explicitly say that "I never played the others but I can confirm that this is just as good!" Is that supposed to be taken seriously? The number of journalists who recognize the mechanical details of DMC and their quality (or lack of quality, depending) can probably be counted on one hand with fingers left over. It's a relatively obscure subset of knowledge and if you only played DMC to watch Dante hit things you probably missed a lot of why DmC and DMC don't seem very much alike.
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Nov 9, 2012 18:49
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ImpAtom posted:The number of journalists who recognize the mechanical details of DMC and their quality (or lack of quality, depending) can probably be counted on one hand with fingers left over. It's a relatively obscure subset of knowledge and if you only played DMC to watch Dante hit things you probably missed a lot of why DmC and DMC don't seem very much alike. But it's not even that, otherwise wouldn't it say something like "I did play the other ones but wasn't very good at them"? I never saw Jurassic Park but The Lost World is even better!
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Nov 9, 2012 18:52
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Pesky Splinter posted:His design has been deliberately muted, to keep in with their attempt at a "realistic" style Dante. It's so grey and brown and bland. And that jacket really isn't helping. Oh no character designs that don't look like they were ripped out of the 80s. My Devil may Cry. A pox upon Ninja Theory. Please return Dante to his original "Even more retarded Anothy Kiedis" look
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Nov 9, 2012 19:09
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lanzy posted:Oh no character designs that don't look like they were ripped out of the 80s. You say this and somehow ignore what the New Vergil is wearing? 
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Nov 9, 2012 19:28
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Still images are one thing. If there's no confusion during gameplay then Dante's redesign is no problem (and please don't bring up that stupid Sequlitis Castlevania video to 'prove' how characters need to have drastic contrast and 'pop'). Those awful promo paintings aside--which half of you seem to love anyway--the art direction in this project is one of its high points. Continuing to complain about the redesign just feeds into the narrative that the previous fans of this series who are skeptical about NT's approach are just dumb scared babies who can't let go of their animes. It's fine. If you thought Dante previous to this didn't look stupider than hell, or that the stories weren't cringeworthy and try-hard and overly serious in places, then you weren't paying attention. The real reason--the only reason--why previous fans of the series should be concerned about this game--and they should be concerned about it--is that the gameplay systems as shown so far and as described so far are severely questionable. Yeah, Dante's punk-rock-by-committee and Vergil looks like a derpy goon, and that's funny to an extent, but please don't hold the series that gave us "lightning bolt corset" Trish and Arius and 3/4 of the cast of DMC4 as some kind of ideal from which we have now fallen so far because Dante has a grey coat.
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Nov 9, 2012 20:31
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lanzy posted:Oh no character designs that don't look like they were ripped out of the 80s. My Devil may Cry. A pox upon Ninja Theory. Please return Dante to his original "Even more retarded Anothy Kiedis" look I think you're missing the point- this series is very much about being gaudy and goofy and not concerning itself with making it's characters look fashion-conscious. Need I remind you of the missile surfing from DMC3 or the Lucifer acquisition scene from DMC4? That's what I liked about it and NT is moving the franchise away from that kinda playfully stupid feel it had before.
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Nov 9, 2012 20:39
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Monkey Fracas posted:I think you're missing the point- this series is very much about being gaudy and goofy and not concerning itself with making it's characters look fashion-conscious. This statement brought to you by Diesel® jeans!
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Nov 9, 2012 20:43
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Bonaventure posted:This statement brought to you by Diesel® jeans! Its funny because 2 was the worst in the series and was the one that had Diesel jeans. Or is that 
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Nov 9, 2012 20:47
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Bonaventure posted:Yeah, Dante's punk-rock-by-committee and Vergil looks like a derpy goon, and that's funny to an extent, but please don't hold the series that gave us "lightning bolt corset" Trish and Arius and 3/4 of the cast of DMC4 as some kind of ideal from which we have now fallen so far because Dante has a grey coat. I mostly agree but I think the grey coat is a pretty bad design choice. Most action games intentionally go out of their way to make their characters pop. God of War gave Kratos bright red coloring and extremely pale skin which made him stand out from the surroundings at all times for example. Ninja Gaiden used the coloring (for the first few areas) and the textures (any time after the initial village area) to make Ryu stand apart. (The exception was for certain ninja-type enemies but even the developers said those were a bit of a problem.) These features stood out in screenshots as well and the characters 'popped' even there. New Dante's not a good design for a busy action game as much they've shown.(Which isn't a lot.) NT is generally good at visual design so there's a good chance it could look better in action, but if it doesn't that's another worrying indication of gameplay. Either they failed at visual design (which is unlikely) or the game's pacing is such that they don't feel the need to emphasize their character. (Which is worrying. It isn't even like GoW is THAT fast paced and even they felt the need to do that.)
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Nov 9, 2012 20:48
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Uncle Wemus posted:Its funny because 2 was the worst in the series and was the one that had Diesel jeans. The joke is that the games have always been obsessed with looking cool. It has a Style meter that you use to build Style and are graded on how Stylish you are. DMC2's Diesel thing is not an aberration. Disbelieve it if you want, but DMC3 Dante is supposed to look cool.
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Nov 9, 2012 20:51
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Bonaventure posted:Still images are one thing. If there's no confusion during gameplay then Dante's redesign is no problem (and please don't bring up that stupid Sequlitis Castlevania video to 'prove' how characters need to have drastic contrast and 'pop'). Those awful promo paintings aside--which half of you seem to love anyway--the art direction in this project is one of its high points. Oh shut it, you. A large part of my enjoyment is the hammy charm of DMC.  With DmC everything I like about the series is gone in a puff of smoke. The whole heavily laden Gothic architecture, the big splash of red color in a world of muted dark hues:  The games (bar 2, big exception if there ever was one) just had this aura of FUN that really drew me in.
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Nov 9, 2012 20:51
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Kaneda assaults Castlevania in search of Tetsuo.
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Nov 9, 2012 20:53
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Yeah, ultimately my concern with the game is how it plays compared to DMC3/4. Likewise, my beef with NT is with how tacked-on the whole "fight the power" thing is and the bizarre PR responses. Comedic trainwreck or not, I just want to see the game uphold the same standard of combat it has for the last two games; my distaste for NT's handling of DmC doesn't go so far that I'd rather have them crash and burn. There is a big disconnect in the themes though. The old series had the "over-the-top, melodrama anime lunacy" feel to it, but that works. It's an action game after all; if they're going to replace that with overwrought social commentary poo poo, then I'd rather have the old stuff back even if it's dumb. At least it led to some insanely memorable moments that I wasn't expected to take seriously beyond "man this is fuckin cool", which is pretty much the heart and soul of DMC. Also, I too am going to miss huge Gothic architecture. toasterwarrior fucked around with this message at 21:04 on Nov 9, 2012 |
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Nov 9, 2012 20:57
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I can believe that old DMCs were made thinking that Dante was cool to the Japanese and everyone else thought it was more hammy and fun than cool. I Think that sort of thing may be the unintentional appeal of the games. I can't really think of many western made attempts at camp in action games off the top of my head. Although arguably Mass Effect had some remarkably campy moments. Has Joss Whedon made any games?
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Nov 9, 2012 20:58
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/\/\/\EDIT:/\/\/\ I refuse to believe that DMC4 Dante was supposed to be anything other than a gigantic hamball. Bonaventure posted:The joke is that the games have always been obsessed with looking cool. It has a Style meter that you use to build Style and are graded on how Stylish you are. DMC2's Diesel thing is not an aberration. Disbelieve it if you want, but DMC3 Dante is supposed to look cool. So, what, Dante should be wearing a pea coat and a sensibly colored scarf or something? The things video game characters wear are akin to costumes, not everyday fashion. Or they should be anyway if your game includes your protagonist spiking a giant malevolent puppet up into the air and juggling him with m1911s until they are dead. \/\/\/DUBBLE EDIT:\/\/\/ Not saying it's a bad thing in the least (I thought it was pretty great/entertaining) but just that that's what they were going for, whereas in 1 (and maaaaybe 3 a bit) it was probably unintentional. Monkey Fracas fucked around with this message at 21:15 on Nov 9, 2012 |
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Nov 9, 2012 21:00
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Monkey Fracas posted:/\/\/\EDIT:/\/\/\ Dante carried DMC4. Without him being King Douchebag of Smug Mountain, I would've disliked the story instead of being mostly indifferent about it. ^^^: Oh no dude, I wasn't calling you out or anything. Dante works best when you can't take him seriously IMO, though DMC3 does have some good "serious" interaction between Dante and Vergil. Uncle Wemus posted:I can believe that old DMCs were made thinking that Dante was cool to the Japanese and everyone else thought it was more hammy and fun than cool. I Think that sort of thing may be the unintentional appeal of the games. I can't really think of many western made attempts at camp in action games off the top of my head. Although arguably Mass Effect had some remarkably campy moments. Has Joss Whedon made any games? Duke Nukem, baby. toasterwarrior fucked around with this message at 21:26 on Nov 9, 2012 |
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Nov 9, 2012 21:04
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As stupid as the old design was, it was iconic. I just watched that Smash Bros knock off trailer and the new Dante is in it, but it took me way too long to even recognize him. Changing the design is fine, but NT's Dante is too divorced to the old one's distinguishing features.
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Nov 9, 2012 21:09
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Uncle Wemus posted:Why do they keep using people who didn't play the other games to comment on them? They even explicitly say that "I never played the others but I can confirm that this is just as good!" Is that supposed to be taken seriously? Because games journalism.
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Nov 9, 2012 21:25
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Alteisen posted:Because games journalism. Hey if the old dmc games came with a Mountain Dew and some Doritos they might play them.
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Nov 9, 2012 21:44
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toasterwarrior posted:
Oh god i forgot about him. Well, Forever wasnt well recieved was it? Or were the only complaints about that the gameplay?
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Nov 9, 2012 22:24
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Uncle Wemus posted:Oh god i forgot about him. Well, Forever wasnt well recieved was it? Or were the only complaints about that the gameplay? Forever was poorly received for the story too, yes. It wasn't funny and was misogynistic in an uncomfortably straightforward way, even compared to older Duke games.
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Nov 9, 2012 22:32
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ImpAtom posted:Forever was poorly received for the story too, yes. It wasn't funny and was misogynistic in an uncomfortably straightforward way, even compared to older Duke games. Forever was poorly received because it was stuck in limbo for 12 years and every single aspect reflected that. The story, gameplay, weapons, settings, all of it felt like a game straight out of 2002.
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Nov 9, 2012 22:37
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Pesky Splinter posted:His design has been deliberately muted, to keep in with their attempt at a "realistic" style Dante. Oh that's good then. And here I was thinking they were utterly incompetent with the simplest things. I also like how games journalists and the developers themselves insist the biggest issue for the fans is his hair color. Cool. Let's construct our own narrative about what people hate with our design, then easily knock it down by implying it's a petty argument. I wonder if there's a name or extremely common logical fallacy related to doing exactly that? Bonus points for professional gaming journalism not calling them out on it and instead running with it. Also loving the, "We submitted a design like the original Dante and Capcom responded 'if we wanted the same Dante, we'd have made DMC5.'" Yeah, that sure would be stupid of you, Capcom. Better ship it off to an excellent developer with a proven track record like Ninja Theory. 
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Nov 9, 2012 22:46
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Pesky Splinter posted:Oh gently caress this noise: Oh God. I actually had to gasp for air after laughing so hard. Jesus Christ Almighty. I love to play with the idea that somebody someday actually would pull of what Ninja Theory is trying to do here: Have a fun, creative and artistic game with an actually good and engaging story that would have something to say even in the grown-up world. Might as well hope for world peace though, and NT is just underlining this impossibility right here. I liked DMC4, for two things kinda undermined the experience: First of all, I thought that I could play all trhe missions with either Nero or Dante and was severily dissappointed after realizing that both of them were tied to their own levels. Secondly I had hoped for special outfits after completing the game for each playthrough, just like DMC3 did. Instead they had nothing. Sigh. Also Nero didn't get any new weapons. Does anybody know why DMC4 had to have Nero in it? The only reason I can think of is that fans would get the young, rebellious Dante and old, chill Dante in the same package, but can that really be the only reason? The fact that they made Nero's hair white just seems to underline this conclusion. What was the talk about somebody in Capcom hating Dante?
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Nov 10, 2012 00:17
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Behind the scenes video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmkhJZAxBX4 The mocap and VA behind the characters of Mundus and Lilith talk about DmC. Lilith wears a wig and has a hosed up head. So that's intentional, at least(?). Tameem Interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otvGxH4eH3g Pretty much confirms they do things for the "art". Tameem waffles about the arty poo poo we don't care about - and the loving story. First boss is the Hunter. Bonaventure posted:Still images are one thing. If there's no confusion during gameplay then Dante's redesign is no problem... I thought this was why the issue was being brought up. Short of the videos where he's in direct sunlight (the orangey city ones), it's like he tends to fade into the background slightly. Without even going into comparisions with the Old Dante design, a very dark colour like his jacket gets lost in some of the very greyish/dark blue/green levels. A faded rusty red on his lapels and hoodie isn't gonna cut it when most of the time you're going to be looking at his back. NT know this poo poo. Say what you will about the gameplay of both, but at the very least, the protagonists of NT's other games are designed so that they do "pop" when in motion. At least the visuals in the levels themselves (excluding the box factory) are pretty nice looking. I'm very curious to see what some of their original designs were, the ones that Capcom said "no" to. Bonaventure posted:The real reason--the only reason--why previous fans of the series should be concerned about this game--and they should be concerned about it--is that the gameplay systems as shown so far and as described so far are severely questionable. I still think there's legimate complaints to be had about the story if they're vaunting it so highly. Gameplay comes first of course, but it's pretty clear that they weren't hired for their expertise in gameplay. The benefit of Capcom overlooking it is that, at the very least, DmC: Devil may Cry, will be playable. Up to the standards of DMCs 3 and 4? Probably not. Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at 01:30 on Nov 10, 2012 |
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Nov 10, 2012 01:23
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