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(Link to old thread here) In 1990, Dick Wolf created and launched Law & Order on NBC. With four direct spin-offs and one indirect spin-off, it is one of the most popular and enduring franchises in television history. Its ability to withstand frequent and significant cast changes proved it to be perhaps the ultimate "character-proof" police procedural, though there were of course a few misfires here and there. (Milena Govich,  )Law & Order  The original is and always will be the best. Premiering on September 13, 1990, and running for a full twenty seasons through May 24, 2010, Law & Order originally starred George Dzundza, Chris Noth, Dann Florek, Michael Moriarty, Richard Brooks and Steven Hill. While the first few seasons were a tad hit-or-miss and had some frequent cast shake-ups (Dzundza left after the first season and was replaced by Paul Sorvino, who himself was replaced by Jerry Orbach as the inimitable Lennie Briscoe about 1/3 of the way through the third season. Numerous other cast members made their way through the 27th precinct and District Attorney's office during those twenty seasons, including Sam Waterston as everyone's favorite Executive Assistant District Attorney, Jack McCoy, as well as assistants Jill Hennessy, Carey Lowell, Angie Harmon, Elisabeth Rohm as secret lesbian Serena Southerlyn, Annie Parisse and Alana de la Garza, as well as Linus Roache as EADA Michael Cutter. S. Epatha Merkerson replaced Dann Florek as the Captain of the 27th Precinct's Homicide Division at the beginning of Season Four, and other actors in the role of detectives included Benjamin Bratt, Jesse L. Martin, Dennis Farina, The show was suddenly canceled in the spring of 2010, days before the 20th season finale, "Rubber Room," was set to finish shooting. However, while it did not receive a series finale, per se, "Rubber Room" serves as an excellent conclusion to the series. Dick Wolf attempted to negotiate a shortened 21st season with both TNT and A&E, but both networks ultimately passed due to cost concerns. Law & Order continues to air weekdays on TNT, and the first eight seasons are available on Netflix Watch Instantly. Law & Order: Special Victims Unit  The first L&O spin-off, SVU, premiered in September 20, 1999, originally focusing on sex-related crimes. Starring Mariska Hargitay and Christopher Meloni, with Dann Florek reprising his original Law & Order role of Captain Donald Cragen and Richard Belzer moving his Detective John Munch character over from Homicide: Life on the Street, the series had difficulty finding a secondary detective to partner with Munch, going through Dean Winters, Chris Orbach and Michelle Hurd before finally striking gold with Ice-T as Odafin "Fin" Tutuola. After a few relatively high-quality seasons, SVU ultimately began a downward spiral into outright insanity, with Seasons 9 - 12 essentially being theatre of the absurd taken to the absolute extreme. Frequent themes included Elliot Stabler beating the tar out of suspects, Olivia Benson having daddy / mommy / family issues, Stabler's family being batshit crazy, and suspects being shot by victims / family members on a semi-regular basis. Oh, and Cragen hugged a monkey.  That being said, Season 13 has been a marked improvement in quality. Meloni left the series after Season 12 following a protracted money dispute, and Hargitay has taken a reduced role. Danny Pino and Kelli Giddish have taken new roles in the series. Word on a fourteenth season will be coming sometime in March or April. Law & Order: Criminal Intent  The second spin-off of Law & Order starred Vincent D'Onofrio and Kathryn Erbe as Detectives Robert Goren and Alexandra Eames. (No one really cared about anyone else.) This series delved -- as much as the procedural L&O format would allow -- into the psychology of perpetrators, aided by Goren essentially being television's greatest sperglord of a detective. Running from 2001 - 2011, Criminal Intent eventually added a second pair of detectives for the fourth season after D'Onofrio collapsed on the set, on the verge of a nervous breakdown due to the workload. (Also, he be crazy.) Chris Noth reprised his Vanilla role of Mike Logan, with a rotating cast of partners including Annabella Sciorra, Julianne Nicholson and Alicia Witt. Following Noth's departure at the end of Season 7, Jeff Goldblum joined the cast for Seasons 8 - 9, taking over full-time following the departure of D'Onofrio and Erbe after Season 8. The show had a tumultous ratings history, peaking at more than 14 million viewers in its second season on NBC and averaging around 8 million viewers in Season 6. Faced with cancellation, Dick Wolf agreed to cut the budget and shift the series' first-run episodes to the NBC-owned USA Network, with NBC to air re-runs a few months later. Ratings continued to plummet on USA, however, bottoming out at only three and a half million viewers in the Goldblum-led season 9. The series was essentially canceled when Wolf pulled a rabbit out of his hat, convincing USA to fund an eight-episode eighth season on the condition that he convince D'Onofrio and Erbe to return to the series. They did, and the tenth season, and Criminal Intent itself, concluded on June 26, 2011. Law & Order: Trial by Jury  Trial by Jury was a drastic departure from the standard Law & Order format, in that it focused almost exclusively upon the legal system aspect of the series. It starred Bebe Neuwirth and Amy Carlson as assistant district attorneys, with Kirk Acevado as Hector Salazar, an investigator for the district attorney's office. Jerry Orbach originally reprised the iconic role of Lennie Briscoe, but had to be written out after two episodes following his death due to prostate cancer, which he had battled for more than ten years. Briscoe's final line in the Law & Order universe, whispered because Orbach was only days away from death: "They got him."  Despite relatively strong ratings, particularly for a Friday night timeslot (and being a midseason replacement), Trial by Jury was considered a disappointment by NBC and canceled after only 13 episodes. Law & Order: Los Angeles  This one ... was a doozy. Dick Wolf had been talking with NBC about a Los Angeles-based spin-off for at least two years prior to Vanilla's end, particularly after the runaway success of CSI: Miami. Wolf claims that he had been promised a shortened, final 21st season of the original Law & Order that would have run in late 2010 to feed directly into Los Angeles as a mid-season replacement, but the abrupt cancellation of Law & Order in the spring kiboshed those plans, pushing Los Angeles into a September 2010 premiere slot despite not even having a pilot script written or filmed. Veteran Law & Order producer Rene Balcer ran the show, with several other longtime L&O writers on board, but it was marked by a tumultuous production -- with a premiere of September 29, 2010, the series only began filming in the middle of August, and casting was still ongoing well into early September. Skeet Ulrich and Corey Stoll originally starred as Detectives Rex Winters and T.J. Jaruszalski, with Alfred Molina and Terrence Howard alternating as the Deputy District Attorney of the Week. The series had significant departures from the traditional Law & Order format; for the first time in the Law & Order universe, composer Mike Post was not retained to write either the theme or the episodes' music, replaced by Icelandic composer Atli Orvarsson, and the show did not originally even have a main theme or intro sequence. Following disappointing reviews and quickly dropping ratings, Los Angeles was removed from NBC's schedule after the 8th episode on December 1, 2010. Production was halted, and the show underwent a major retooling. Despite five more episodes already having been completed with them, Skeet Ulrich and co-stars Megan Boone and Regina Hall were fired, while Alfred Molina's character of DDA Ricardo Morales was shifted to replace Ulrich's Rex Winters as a detective, with Terrence Howard becoming the full-time DDA. Alana de la Garza was brought on to reprise her Vanilla role of Connie Rubirosa, in the hopes that it would attract longtime L&O viewers originally turned off by Los Angeles' first eight episodes. The show returned more than four months later, on April 11, 2011, and while the series had experienced a massive creative resurgence, ratings continued to drop (episode nine, "Zuma Canyon," grabbed three million fewer viewers than episode eight had in December), and the show was canceled shortly before episode 15 aired in May. Following the cancellation, NBC burned off the remaining seven episodes (including the five starring Skeet Ulrich). And so, to recap: Law & Order: Special Victims Unit -- September 20, 1999 - Present, Wednesday nights, 9 Eastern / 8 Central Law & Order -- September 13, 1990 - May 24, 2010 Law & Order: Criminal Intent -- September 30, 2001 - June 26, 2011 Law & Order: Trial by Jury -- March 3, 2005 - January 21, 2006 Law & Order: Los Angeles -- September 29, 2010 -- July 11, 2011  Lennie Briscoe -- Busting perps in the 27th Precinct in the sky
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Jan 1, 2012 00:36
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I still think NBC would revive the original if things get really bad at NBC.
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Jan 1, 2012 00:41
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The only thing I suggest is include Homicide in the OP since it has Munch and there are multiple crossovers. Also Briscoe banged Munch's ex-wife.
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Jan 1, 2012 00:43
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bobkatt013 posted:The only thing I suggest is include Homicide in the OP since it has Munch and there are multiple crossovers. Also Briscoe banged Munch's ex-wife. Law & Order: Dick Wolf. Homicide: Barry Levinson, Paul Attanasio and David Simon. By that logic, you'd have me include Sesame Street, Arrested Development and The Lone Gunmen in the OP, too. I don't mind discussing Homicide in here, since it's my all-time favorite series, but with seven seasons of its own in an almost completely separate universe, I'm not terribly interested in just throwing it in there.
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Jan 1, 2012 00:49
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Timby posted:Law & Order: Dick Wolf. Homicide: Barry Levinson, Paul Attanasio and David Simon. Ya but there was specific episodes that crossover and you had Logan bringing John Walters to Baltimore. I understand why you do not include it, but its one of my favorites and want more people to watch it.
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Jan 1, 2012 00:53
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How's Law and Order: Conviction? I never got the chance to see it - how does it hold up? Great OP, but shouldn't Law and Order: UK be in it? It's still ongoing, and if I remember from what I've read, Dick Wolf considers it to be canon to the Law and Order universe. Here's hoping for SVU season 14!
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Jan 1, 2012 01:39
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OldMemes posted:How's Law and Order: Conviction? I never got the chance to see it - how does it hold up? Conviction isn't really a true Law & Order show; it was developed by Dick Wolf, yes, but it originally had no ties whatsoever to L&O (it doesn't even use the Friz Quadrata typeface in its logo). At the last minute, like basically a week or two before shooting began, Wolf decided to use Alex Cabot as the head district attorney, and inserted her into the pilot script while barely changing any dialogue or characterization. As a result, Cabot feels like a completely different character than she did / does on SVU. As a whole, the series was pretty bad ... there's a reason it got canned after 13 episodes. Last I checked, it was on Netflix Instant. quote:Great OP, but shouldn't Law and Order: UK be in it? It's still ongoing, and if I remember from what I've read, Dick Wolf considers it to be canon to the Law and Order universe. Yeah, I considered it, but I'd have to go up like two cable tiers in order to get BBC America, so I've only seen a few episodes of it -- didn't really feel qualified to write it up. I've liked what I've seen, though. If someone wants to put something together, I'll put it in the OP. quote:Here's hoping for SVU season 14! Yeah, this season has been a massive turnaround from the last several years, which has been a very welcome surprise. But I'm not holding out a lot of hope: It's averaging only around 7 million viewers per episode, nearly 2 million down from last season, and it's tied its all-time series low in viewership at least twice this season. If the Internet (and my Facebook news feed) is any indication, a lot of people were just watching SVU for that sweet, smoldering Benson / Stabler sexual tension, and now that Meloni's gone, they've been tuning out. And that's a huge bummer, because while Kelli Giddish is still finding her footing, I've really been liking Danny Pino's work thus far. Timby fucked around with this message at 02:10 on Jan 1, 2012 |
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Jan 1, 2012 02:06
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The iOS game was mentioned in the last thread. It's fairly decent and shines in the courtroom latter half (although it was a bit easy), and the first episode took about as long as an episode of the show to complete. It does a decent job at somewhat capturing the feel but some of the voice actors are very off. Van Bueren almost sounds like a racist stereotype and McCoy (yes Jack still as DA) doesn't sound anything like Sam, but oh well. Also there really wasn't any reason for Benson to be in this at all, the story was standard Vanilla fare. Also at the scene of a stabbing murder: Witness: I thought it was some kind of prank. *leaves* Rey Curtis: Some prank. Lenny: Well, sounds like the guy was a real cut up. Oh Lenny... we miss you. got dat wmd fucked around with this message at 02:30 on Jan 1, 2012 |
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Jan 1, 2012 02:16
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SVU isn't full of absurd melodrama this season? That's been its thing for 8 years! I'll prob check out the upcoming episodes then.
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Jan 1, 2012 02:17
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I don't have Netflix because they don't operate in the UK  It's funny to think, over here, seven million viewers is a very strong turnout, but in the US, it's dissapointing - it amazes when I think how big the US is, really.I never really got the Benson/Stabler sexual tension some fans seem to insist was there. I know shippers aren't the best people to analyse something, but compared to say The X-Files, there really wasn't a "will they/won't they" dynamic like the one Mulder and Scully had. Stabler was always shown as a pretty strong family man, dedicated to his children, with a few exceptions (When his wife kicked him out for a season or so, or when Sharon Stone's ADA implied that they'd had an affair), and we saw Benson's dating life in the first few seasons, but then she got basically married to the job. Then again, shippers can't get their head around the idea that two characters shown as close might just really be close friends, and not secretly going at it like rabbits/secretly wanting to go at it like rabbits. I've been enjoying Kelli Giddish, but her character needs more development. Danny Pino's character is kinda coming off as Stabler-lite, but I am liking the mentor thing they're setting up between him and Munch. EDIT: I looked for some clips for the Law and Order game, and after hearing the Briscoe voice, I have to agree with you Timby - "inimitable" is the right word Didn't they get anyone to do their own voicework? Surely since Mariska Hargitay is still under contract, they could have got her to voice Benson? Though I am talking about a franchise which wrote out two series regulars, with a ten year plus run on the show with a "they went back to their home planet" handwave.
OldMemes fucked around with this message at 02:37 on Jan 1, 2012 |
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Jan 1, 2012 02:23
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I'll do a L&O UK writeup in the next day or so if no one gets to it before me.
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Jan 1, 2012 05:00
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bobkatt013 posted:The only thing I suggest is include Homicide in the OP since it has Munch and there are multiple crossovers. Also Briscoe banged Munch's ex-wife. You are thinking TOO SMALL, MOTHERFUCKER. 
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Jan 1, 2012 05:32
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I'm a HUGE Law and Order fan, so I audibly gasped when I saw this thread listed on the "Popular Threads" section of the Frontpage. I wasn't aware that Meloni left SVU because of money disputes, I just thought he kind of sick of doing the same role for so long and how little there is left to do with the character. I think the OP needs to at least mention the immense crossover in actors with OZ. Dick Wolf is very good friends with OZ creator/writer Tom Fontana (also writer/producer of Homicide: Life on the Street), resulting in a lot of crossover to Law and Order, in both series regulars and guest stars. It's also the source of Detective Fontana's name in Vanilla Law and Order. E.g. Actor - OZ - Law and Order (Regulars) Christopher Meloni - Chris Keller - Detective Elliott Stabler (SVU) Dean Winters - Ryan O'Reilly - Detective Brian Cassidy (SVU) B.D. Wong - Father Ray Mukada - Dr. George Huang (SVU) J.K. Simmons - Vern Schillinge - Dr. Emil Skoda (Vanilla and SVU) Kathryn Ebre - Shirley Bellinger - Detective Alexandra Eames (CI) Kirk Acevedo - Miguel Alvarez - Hector Salazar (Trial by Jury) Bruce Leroy fucked around with this message at 06:37 on Jan 1, 2012 |
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Jan 1, 2012 05:50
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OldMemes posted:I never really got the Benson/Stabler sexual tension some fans seem to insist was there. I know shippers aren't the best people to analyse something, but compared to say The X-Files, there really wasn't a "will they/won't they" dynamic like the one Mulder and Scully had. There is nothing there, nothing. I've seen one moment where I thought they may kiss and that was it. I think people are just dying for there to be some sort of office romance in the show. Or at least unrequited love.
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Jan 1, 2012 11:42
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Bruce Leroy posted:I wasn't aware that Meloni left SVU because of money disputes, I just thought he kind of sick of doing the same role for so long and how little there is left to do with the character. He and Hargitay were earning $395,000 per episode under the contract that expired following Season 12. Hargitay successfully negotiated a Season 13 deal that has her working 13 episodes full-time, then the remainder of the season in a lesser role, but with the same per-episode pay. Meloni and his agent had a long, protracted series of negotiations with NBC, but he wanted a not-insignificant raise to more than $9 million a year, especially since he was going to be full-time for the entire season (and Hargitay was getting her $395k/episode for less work). NBC held its ground and said it wasn't in a position to give him a major pay hike, so at the 11th hour, Meloni walked (which necessitated the hiring of Giddish and Pino far sooner than Wolf & Co. had planned). Timby fucked around with this message at 22:00 on Jan 1, 2012 |
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Jan 1, 2012 21:57
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Cookie Kwan posted:There is nothing there, nothing. I've seen one moment where I thought they may kiss and that was it. I think people are just dying for there to be some sort of office romance in the show. Or at least unrequited love. I agree that there wasn't all that much between them as characters, but it sure did seem like the producers were toying with the idea as a audience draw through all of Stabler's problems with his wife and family. It was basically, "Hey Stabler just told Olivia about being separated and how hard it has been for him, and she's been lamenting how she can't date, so you should probably keep watching to see if anything comes of this."
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Jan 1, 2012 23:15
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Bruce Leroy posted:I agree that there wasn't all that much between them as characters, but it sure did seem like the producers were toying with the idea as a audience draw through all of Stabler's problems with his wife and family. It was basically, "Hey Stabler just told Olivia about being separated and how hard it has been for him, and she's been lamenting how she can't date, so you should probably keep watching to see if anything comes of this." This is why I don't get why Benson broke down in tears when she was told Stabler had resigned. I mean, it's sad that your work partner for 12 years is leaving, especially when it's so abrupt, but it's not like he's dead or anything - they never even said he was moving or something, so as far as we know Stabler is still hanging around Queens, doing whatever, that, and they've shown Benson visiting Stabler's house and being good friends with his wife before. She was even on the phone to him at the start of the episode. Sure, it was a well done dramatic moment, but it seems a little overboard - if Cragen had said something like "Elliot had an offscreen accident and died" or something, it would make a bit more sense. Stabler isn't out of Benson's life after leaving SVU, just out of her professional work side of life. Sorry, I'm being nit picky. I do love Cragen's "deal with it" attitude towards Benson though - it reminds me of the first season when he was mad at Benson and Stabler all the time.
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Jan 2, 2012 02:22
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OldMemes posted:This is why I don't get why Benson broke down in tears when she was told Stabler had resigned. I mean, it's sad that your work partner for 12 years is leaving, especially when it's so abrupt, but it's not like he's dead or anything - they never even said he was moving or something, so as far as we know Stabler is still hanging around Queens, doing whatever, that, and they've shown Benson visiting Stabler's house and being good friends with his wife before. She was even on the phone to him at the start of the episode. I'm in total agreement. It seemed so weird that she got so emotional just because she's no longer partnered with Stabler. It's not like they'd never see each other again or that they've never spent any time apart since they became partners. Hell, when she even went undercover for an extended period and even took a separate job afterwords, so it really shouldn't have been that big of a deal. In the other series, especially vanilla, some characters have been killed off and the other characters don't get nearly as weepy or undone as Benson did over Stabler retiring. Also, "Elisabeth Rohm as secret lesbian Serena Southerlyn" from the OP reminds me of something else from SVU, Dr. Huang just suddenly talking about being gay as if it was something already well known and openly discussed. I know actor B.D. Wong is gay but it just felt like the way he first mentioned it happened just like with Southerlyn. They give very little background to theses characters, but suddenly act like their backstories are already well-known and matter of fact.
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Jan 2, 2012 03:25
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What shows are considered part of the extended L&O universe (Tommy Westphal joke image aside)? I just saw Mary McCormack on a random CI episode, which I guess brings In Plain Sight into the continuity.
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Jan 2, 2012 20:50
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jscolon2.0 posted:What shows are considered part of the extended L&O universe (Tommy Westphal joke image aside)? I just saw Mary McCormack on a random CI episode, which I guess brings In Plain Sight into the continuity. Homicide: Life on the Street, New York Undercover and Deadline are - The Wire and The X Files might be, depending on if you consider Munch's appearances in those to be canon or not.
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Jan 2, 2012 21:05
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OldMemes posted:Homicide: Life on the Street, New York Undercover and Deadline are - The Wire and The X Files might be, depending on if you consider Munch's appearances in those to be canon or not. You forgot Arrested Development.
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Jan 2, 2012 22:39
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OldMemes posted:This is why I don't get why Benson broke down in tears when she was told Stabler had resigned. I mean, it's sad that your work partner for 12 years is leaving, especially when it's so abrupt, but it's not like he's dead or anything - they never even said he was moving or something, so as far as we know Stabler is still hanging around Queens, doing whatever, that, and they've shown Benson visiting Stabler's house and being good friends with his wife before. She was even on the phone to him at the start of the episode. but he's dead to us, the viewers. I guess that's what they were going for, anyway. Kind of like saying a teary series finale needs to kill everyone off. Actually, that'd be pretty loving awesome. Do it like one of those cliffhangers where it's 56 minutes in and they lost their prime suspect, except at the end it's just BAM! asteroid rapture. DICK WOLF.
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Jan 2, 2012 23:02
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epheneh posted:but he's dead to us, the viewers. I guess that's what they were going for, anyway. Kind of like saying a teary series finale needs to kill everyone off. Not in re-runs!  I think "Aftershock" was the best episode in which a character was killed off - you have a whole episode full of wonderful character moments, then Kincaid's death in the car accident. That moment when Briscoe quickly sobers up, realises what's happened, and starts to cry is beautifully well done. If they knew Meloni wanted to quit the series, they should have had Stabler get shot during the final scene of "Smoked". If he decided to stay with the series, they could have him recover for the start of season 13, if he left, it's a good way to kill Stabler off. Either way, you'd get a good "Will Stabler survive?" cliffhanger to end the season with. SVU's season cliffhangers tend to be weak, and there's something amusingly ironic about Stabler getting finished off by a teenage girl, after all the psychos he faced....but nope - handwave the character away. Stabler left the NYPD all together, not just the SVU, right?
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Jan 2, 2012 23:22
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There's a case to be made that after her upbringing of being a child of rape and her Mom being an alcoholic, plus her near-rape by a prison guard and her inability to form any sort of romantic relationship, Benson's pretty broken, and her one real lifepost was Stabler: They spent twelve years together and went through some crazy poo poo together. Stabler was the one constant in her life for more than a decade. I don't think her breakdown was unreasonable at all.
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Jan 2, 2012 23:27
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Timby posted:There's a case to be made that after her upbringing of being a child of rape and her Mom being an alcoholic, plus her near-rape by a prison guard and her inability to form any sort of romantic relationship, Benson's pretty broken, and her one real lifepost was Stabler: They spent twelve years together and went through some crazy poo poo together. Stabler was the one constant in her life for more than a decade. I don't think her breakdown was unreasonable at all. But as it has already been said, it's not like they'll never see each other again, they just won't be working together. She's practically like his sister, so it's not like him no longer working with her means they have nothing in common or binding them together. It just reeks of a heavy handed response to a hasty character/story changeup necessitated by behind-the-scenes politics.
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Jan 3, 2012 01:55
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Bruce Leroy posted:But as it has already been said, it's not like they'll never see each other again, they just won't be working together. She's practically like his sister, so it's not like him no longer working with her means they have nothing in common or binding them together. It does seem like they're gearing up to write Benson out though. I never got why people seem convinced that Benson is the best SVU character though. When Law & Order had its 20th anniversary, the Hallmark Channel (now Universal Channel) had an online poll to see who was the viewing public's favourite L&O detective - Benson was voted number one, with Goren second. Briscoe was only in third place.  Benson has just been written as being very unlikable this season, especially in her attitude to the new characters. Not making Munch and Finn the main characters was a missed chance for this season.
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Jan 3, 2012 03:22
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OldMemes posted:Benson has just been written as being very unlikable this season, especially in her attitude to the new characters. Not making Munch and Finn the main characters was a missed chance for this season. I don't think Munch and Finn could be the main characters. Don't get me wrong, they're great characters, but they provide the comic relief, Munch especially. I don't think that could carry on into the main characters roles, it would change the entire tone of the show I think. Although, I could see Munch's smart rear end quips being marketed on television- "He's SVU's new head detective - and he's not here to take things seriously."
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Jan 3, 2012 03:55
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Cookie Kwan posted:I don't think Munch and Finn could be the main characters. Don't get me wrong, they're great characters, but they provide the comic relief, Munch especially. I don't think that could carry on into the main characters roles, it would change the entire tone of the show I think. Although, I could see Munch's smart rear end quips being marketed on television- "He's SVU's new head detective - and he's not here to take things seriously." He was only a main character on a show for 7 years
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Jan 3, 2012 03:57
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bobkatt013 posted:He was only a main character on a show for 7 years Not on SVU though, that is my point. I'm not saying he wouldn't make a great main character, I'm saying I don't think he would make a great main character for SVU.
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Jan 3, 2012 03:58
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Cookie Kwan posted:I don't think Munch and Finn could be the main characters. Don't get me wrong, they're great characters, but they provide the comic relief, Munch especially. I don't think that could carry on into the main characters roles, it would change the entire tone of the show I think. Although, I could see Munch's smart rear end quips being marketed on television- "He's SVU's new head detective - and he's not here to take things seriously." I wasn't suggesting that because it would be a good idea, only because it would be pretty awesome - though Munch becoming head of SVU for one epsisode and screwing up in huge way was pretty amusing. I am really liking Rollins and Amaro - they're more interseting characters than Lake, Cassidy, Jeffries or Beck were at any rate.
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Jan 3, 2012 04:11
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You know, there's only one episode so far that actually made me shudder: Angel (L&O 6-8), where when the detectives ask Leah where her baby is, she opens up the furnace and says, "My baby deserves the best".
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Jan 3, 2012 05:03
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I just started watching the Carmichael years, and it's really interesting how the Order's side started to focus on her more, with McCoy somewhat more in the background (at least until the actual trial). Since she's so much more of an incendiary, proactive character, it makes a bit of sense that McCoy is starting to be the one saying, "Now, wait a minute," which is an interesting switch from the previous years of McCoy being the incendiary one. I like Kincaid and Ross, but I'm really liking Carmichael's take on it. Plus, that smoky Angie Harmon voice. 
Hewlett fucked around with this message at 06:08 on Jan 3, 2012 |
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Jan 3, 2012 06:05
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Hewlett posted:I like Kincaid and Ross, but I'm really liking Carmichael's take on it. Plus, that smoky Angie Harmon voice. Amen, brother. I'm pretty sure I have an unhealthy obsession with that character.
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Jan 3, 2012 07:08
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Timby posted:There's a case to be made that after her upbringing of being a child of rape and her Mom being an alcoholic, plus her near-rape by a prison guard and her inability to form any sort of romantic relationship, Benson's pretty broken, and her one real lifepost was Stabler: They spent twelve years together and went through some crazy poo poo together. Stabler was the one constant in her life for more than a decade. I don't think her breakdown was unreasonable at all. I think the reason they connected so well was because there was no chance of a romantic relationship. Stabler is married - he wasn't going to pursue anything with Olivia, so she faced no pressure from that.
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Jan 3, 2012 16:28
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Hewlett posted:I just started watching the Carmichael years, and it's really interesting how the Order's side started to focus on her more, with McCoy somewhat more in the background (at least until the actual trial). Since she's so much more of an incendiary, proactive character, it makes a bit of sense that McCoy is starting to be the one saying, "Now, wait a minute," which is an interesting switch from the previous years of McCoy being the incendiary one. This came up in the old thread a few months ago. Here's what I said about it back then: quote:It was a pretty jarring transition from Jamie "I'm a former defense attorney, I have sympathy for defendants, by the way MY DAUGHTER" Ross to Abby "gently caress everybody" Carmichael, but I think it was sorely needed at that point. Seasons 7 and 8 went a little too far with Jack taking his grief over Claire out on everyone in sight, with him going from "will bend the rules at any opportunity" to "will break every rule in sight, drat the torpedoes, full speed ahead," so bringing in the conservative Carmichael allowed them to take Jack back from the brink of insanity.
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Jan 3, 2012 22:53
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To be fair to the writers and Benson's cahracter, they also mention that Stabler hasn't been answering his phone and isn't talking to anyone. Also, it was easy to forget but Mariska is a decent actress and the slow burn of her uh...burning out has been pretty good.
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Jan 4, 2012 06:01
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OldMemes posted:It does seem like they're gearing up to write Benson out though. drat, that's terrible. Briscoe was loving awesome and obviously the best detective/character of all the L&O series, with Goren being a close second. Briscoe was so memorable and unique that he became kind of the signature L&O detective. My dad still likes to quote/make up some of Briscoe's opening one-liners. Hewlett posted:I just started watching the Carmichael years, and it's really interesting how the Order's side started to focus on her more, with McCoy somewhat more in the background (at least until the actual trial). Since she's so much more of an incendiary, proactive character, it makes a bit of sense that McCoy is starting to be the one saying, "Now, wait a minute," which is an interesting switch from the previous years of McCoy being the incendiary one. Those are the exact reasons I loving hated Carmichael. She was just incredibly unlikeable, which is pretty obvious from the episode that focuses on what an unsympathetic rear end Carmichael is (where a female prisoner puts out a hit on the prison guard who repeatedly raped her) until she reveals that she was raped in college, which is such a cheap way to generate sympathy for her character. This was all the worse in following Jaime Ross, who was actually a well-written character, with a rigid, flat stereotype. The only episodes I liked her in were the two episodes comprising the mini-arc of McCoy going apeshit on the Russian mob. She finally acted like an empathetic human being rather than a Texan stereotype. Timby posted:It was a pretty jarring transition from Jamie "I'm a former defense attorney, I have sympathy for defendants, by the way MY DAUGHTER" Ross to Abby "gently caress everybody" Carmichael, but I think it was sorely needed at that point. Seasons 7 and 8 went a little too far with Jack taking his grief over Claire out on everyone in sight, with him going from "will bend the rules at any opportunity" to "will break every rule in sight, drat the torpedoes, full speed ahead," so bringing in the conservative Carmichael allowed them to take Jack back from the brink of insanity. Are you kidding? It was during Carmichael's tenure that Jack went to his most insane. In the Russian Mob two-part arc I already mentioned, Jack literally suspends habeas corpus and throws the Russian mobsters into jail without arraignment, bail hearing, any outside contact whatsoever, etc., going as far as to file several appeals (which they show) defending his patently unconstitutional and insane actions. Bruce Leroy fucked around with this message at 09:34 on Jan 4, 2012 |
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Jan 4, 2012 09:08
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The end of "Damaged Goods" is loving brutal. Its the one where Lenny finds out that his daughter is murdered and he just breaks down completely. "She was my baby, Rey! What am I going to do now?" 
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Jan 5, 2012 03:04
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I loving skipped the end of that episode right before that because I didn't care for the case at the time when it first aired. Had to have it spoiled for me. I sometimes hated how L&O just kinda threw codas in like that.
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Jan 5, 2012 07:20
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Aside from his drunken talk about his father in Aftershock, did we ever see McCoy break down or cry in the show? Also, I just can't get into Criminal Intent - I personally find Goren a bit...creepy, for want of a better word.
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Jan 5, 2012 16:01
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