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Punching the reporter is fun (though I don't do it on my Paragon playthroughs), but the best [right hook] in the series is punching the crazy scientist at the beginning of ME1. Especially because it's out of NOWHERE. And of course Jennifer Hale's delivery is flawless. "Say goodnight Manuel..."
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Apr 20, 2012 13:23
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Anyone playing sentinel here?Is it me or there's something wrong with tech armor?It gives you some protection(but you still need to stick to cover unless you're playing on casual) and a damage bonus at the cost of heavily penalising your recharge time.It doesn't look like a good tradeoff at all,especially considering that half of sentinel's abilities are CC of some sort and thus recharge rate>damage.So am I missing something or sentinel's signature skill is complete poo poo?
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Apr 20, 2012 13:44
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LobsterTick posted:Anyone playing sentinel here?Is it me or there's something wrong with tech armor?It gives you some protection(but you still need to stick to cover unless you're playing on casual) and a damage bonus at the cost of heavily penalising your recharge time.It doesn't look like a good tradeoff at all,especially considering that half of sentinel's abilities are CC of some sort and thus recharge rate>damage.So am I missing something or sentinel's signature skill is complete poo poo? I've only played as a Sentinel on multiplayer, but yeah, tech armour's pretty much worthless unless you're trying to make the tankiest build possible. It's really an either/or between casting and setting off your own biotic explosions all over the place, or upping your damage protection to maximum and shooting things in faces with guns. Compromising between the two doesn't seem to produce much in the way of results.
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Apr 20, 2012 13:50
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LobsterTick posted:Anyone playing sentinel here?Is it me or there's something wrong with tech armor?It gives you some protection(but you still need to stick to cover unless you're playing on casual) and a damage bonus at the cost of heavily penalising your recharge time.It doesn't look like a good tradeoff at all,especially considering that half of sentinel's abilities are CC of some sort and thus recharge rate>damage.So am I missing something or sentinel's signature skill is complete poo poo? The cooldown penalty is borderline not noticeable in single player with the right passives and guns. The numbers look big, but in practice we're talking like 0.2 seconds per throw or something.
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Apr 20, 2012 14:06
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LobsterTick posted:Anyone playing sentinel here?Is it me or there's something wrong with tech armor?It gives you some protection(but you still need to stick to cover unless you're playing on casual) and a damage bonus at the cost of heavily penalising your recharge time.It doesn't look like a good tradeoff at all,especially considering that half of sentinel's abilities are CC of some sort and thus recharge rate>damage.So am I missing something or sentinel's signature skill is complete poo poo? All the defensive powers feel 'weak' at first glance or if you're starting with no-import at level 1. But by the point you're in your late 30s, with some passive abilities and upgraded rank 5/10 guns, you'll be able to carry a decent gun or two and put on tech armor without feeling a huge cooldown reduction. Tech armor stacks with defense matrix, fortification and barrier, allowing you to pick a second defensive ability and use both to become an even bigger tank. I haven't tried a sentinel yet, but if I were to try one, I'd probably stack it with fortification and use the geth shotgun. Maybe someone who has played one can give build advice.
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Apr 20, 2012 14:13
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sassassin posted:The cooldown penalty is borderline not noticeable in single player with the right passives and guns. The numbers look big, but in practice we're talking like 0.2 seconds per throw or something. This. It is pretty weird that tech armor has a higher cooldown penalty and gives a smaller power damage bonus than barrier. I'd expect the class specific powers to be more powerful than a generic bonus power. edit: Banjodark posted:I haven't tried a sentinel yet, but if I were to try one, I'd probably stack it with fortification and use the geth shotgun. Maybe someone who has played one can give build advice. Go with barrier instead. You can get +20% power damage from fortification, but +25% power damage AND +25% force from barrier. Unless you plan on purging the defensive power, barrier is hands down the best choice.
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Apr 20, 2012 14:13
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dwazegek posted:This. it's gross/amazing, I still miss reave though. reave + throw grenades = cleared an entire room on insanity.
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Apr 20, 2012 14:14
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Banjodark posted:it's gross/amazing, I still miss reave though. reave + throw grenades = cleared an entire room on insanity. Couldn't you still use warp to do the same? edit: I guess reave is an AoE attack. Does that mean you can set off multiple detonations at once? 
dwazegek fucked around with this message at 14:18 on Apr 20, 2012 |
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Apr 20, 2012 14:16
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dwazegek posted:
Adept cluster grenade also procs biotic explosions, each 'shrapnel' grenade cluster that you throw will set off a nearby biotic explosion for anything capable of exploding in it's radius. If you max out grenades (and evolve them to have more shrapnel pieces) and cast aoe reave, you can blow up a room wth one grenade proccing 3-4 explosions. It's the way that drell adepts in multiplayer can clean out entire areas (and it's the only way they can detonate reave). it's sooo good.
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Apr 20, 2012 14:21
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Sniper Party posted:The final sequence of ME1 from Ilos to the Citadel is fantastic, but I don't much care for the rest of the main story missions in the game. The first part of Noveria is fun and all of the others have some good bits in them, yet I still don't find them very enjoyable to play any more. And then there are of course the endless repetitive side quests and mako exploration parts, which make sure I'll burn out on the game long before finishing it. I'm sure it would be worth it to replay the game if I managed to make myself skip the boring bits, but it just feels so wrong not to do absolutely every single thing in the game. Just tweaking the mako jets and giving yourself storm speed out of combat makes ME1 a totally different game. I just ignore the inventory mods and etc until my inventory is full then omnigel it all, game is easy enough as it is with the specter weapons.
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Apr 20, 2012 14:24
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Okay, so my next playthrough is going to be an adept + Liara/Javik/Kaidan. The explosions will never stop. 
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Apr 20, 2012 14:24
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Dush posted:This is actually the most uncomfortable running joke in the series and I wish they'd have stopped after the first game, or preferably even before they put it in there. It's not funny and it's not okay. I agree with this. I thought the second game punch was basically an isolated incident. It wasn't until I went through the first game did I realize that this was a running (not)joke. I know in real life we've all wanted to see certain infotainment personalities clocked from time to time (I know I have), but this gets uncomfortable because it's not even couched in a convincing way. --- I wonder how hard it would have been for BW to code some sort of PC to PS3 version importer for save games. Like if a person had a ME1 PC version save, they could easily port it to ME2 on the PS3. That would have been nice to have. A good gesture to players out there. TyroneGoldstein fucked around with this message at 14:30 on Apr 20, 2012 |
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Apr 20, 2012 14:26
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dwazegek posted:Okay, so my next playthrough is going to be an adept + Liara/Javik/Kaidan. The explosions will never stop. cooldowns are so fast (and there aren't enough hotkeys for an adept) that I almost find it a waste of time to even set them up with my team-mates. By the time I've got them casting anything I could have just done it all myself. Liara's bubble-stasis is amazing for explosions though, but with Kaidan I generally have his overload (neural shock & both chain evolutions) hotkeyed for crowd control/shield removal purposes.
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Apr 20, 2012 14:28
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I liked how in 2 and 3, you could just punch her again, but that's the most boring way of doing it. Also how in 3 if you're not paying attention she'll knock you on your rear end.
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Apr 20, 2012 14:29
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TyroneGoldstein posted:I agree with this. I thought the second game punch was basically an isolated incident. It wasn't until I went through the first game did I realize that this was a running (not)joke. I know in real life we've all wanted to see certain infotainment personalities clocked from time to time (I know I have), but this gets uncomfortable because it's not even couched in a convincing way. I'd feel pretty comfortable calling Mass Effect a male power fantasy. It's made mostly by men, mostly men play it (and they mostly play as a man), and you can punch a defenceless unarmed woman directly in the face entirely consequence-free, across multiple games. It's one of the things that really grosses me out about these games.
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Apr 20, 2012 14:31
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Dush posted:I'd feel pretty comfortable calling Mass Effect a male power fantasy. It's made mostly by men, mostly men play it (and they mostly play as a man), and you can punch a defenceless unarmed woman directly in the face entirely consequence-free, across multiple games. It's one of the things that really grosses me out about these games. You would be okay with that renegade interrupt if only she were a defenseless unarmed man? Don't get me wrong, I've always taken the paragon interrupt with her and in fact I find it a billion times more satisfying to turn her words back around on her and prove her wrong, rather than violently lashing out and basically proving her right, but just saying... Renegade interrupts have you constantly be a huge rear end in a top hat to people regardless of species or gender. The renegade interrupt with her is just another point in a long line of being a sociopath.
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Apr 20, 2012 14:34
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Dush posted:I'd feel pretty comfortable calling Mass Effect a male power fantasy. It's made mostly by men, mostly men play it (and they mostly play as a man), and you can punch a defenceless unarmed woman directly in the face entirely consequence-free, across multiple games. It's one of the things that really grosses me out about these games. Is it better when my femshep punches her in the face, then?
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Apr 20, 2012 14:35
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Aristobulus posted:You would be okay with that renegade interrupt if only she were a defenseless unarmed man? C'mon, Aristobulus, you don't have to know much to know this society straight up isn't equal to women. When you've got poo poo like this: quote:You can perform a renegade interrupt in the middle of her question, punching her in the face (she will have a black eye and other facial injuries afterward).
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Apr 20, 2012 14:41
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But its okay to shoot Conrad in the foot?
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Apr 20, 2012 14:45
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I don't really know if it portrays it as "okay." Just because it allows something doesn't mean it's saying it's acceptable.
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Apr 20, 2012 14:48
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Affi posted:But its okay to shoot Conrad in the foot? Men have, and have had historically, a privileged role in society and thus I'm not hugely concerned about how they get treated in a male power fantasy game. Have some feminism 101 from this (regrettably recently locked) D&D thread! http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3452508 Elysiume posted:I don't really know if it portrays it as "okay." Just because it allows something doesn't mean it's saying it's acceptable. If you really want, I'd be happy to find you a million comments on the internet to the effect of: "That was HILARIOUS, bro!" It's really hugely enabling to misogynists. edit: Also, it's obviously a running joke, so they really are treating it as if it's funny. This is basically undeniable. Dush fucked around with this message at 14:56 on Apr 20, 2012 |
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Apr 20, 2012 14:49
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I think you're misunderstanding things here, is all, Dush. I'm not saying it's "okay" or "acceptable". Personally I've never really found it funny. I find the [right hook] meme amusing but not the source, really. It's a violent, assholish thing to do in game because that's what Renegade Shepard is. He's a violent, sociopathic rear end in a top hat. Keep in mind this is the same Shepard that will shoot Conrad in the foot, leave Zaeed to die trapped under wreckage, will have Wrex killed, etc. And really, I think the best comparison is shooting Conrad in the foot. It's presented with exactly the same tone as punching the Al-Jilani. Yet, you want to tell me that's okay simply because Conrad is a guy? I think they are both just examples of Renegade Shep being a violent rear end in a top hat. I could easy point to absolutely abhorrent things Renegade Shepard does too that makes me outright think of him as a villain simply competing with larger villains (the Reapers) instead of a hero, so I mean...you might just be misunderstanding Renegade Shepard's character here.
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Apr 20, 2012 14:55
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Aristobulus posted:I think you're misunderstanding things here, is all, Dush. I'm not saying it's "okay" or "acceptable". Personally I've never really found it funny. I find the [right hook] meme amusing but not the source, really. You'd be on more defensible ground if it wasn't for the videos in LOTSB showing Jilani getting beat up by various guys. If it was just RenShep, then maybe you'd be right, but nope sorry. Unless you'd like to say that Volus and, what was it, a Krogan? They were villains, too, obviously.
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Apr 20, 2012 14:59
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Since this thread has already served its purpose why not get it closed via some trainwreck, feminism derail. EDIT: Oh poo poo we aren't in the spoilers thread. Nevermind. I think we understand your point.
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Apr 20, 2012 15:05
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I just wish Shepard could Vanguard Charge her. E: Then she would be dead.
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Apr 20, 2012 15:06
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Dush posted:You'd be on more defensible ground if it wasn't for the videos in LOTSB showing Jilani getting beat up by various guys. If it was just RenShep, then maybe you'd be right, but nope sorry. Unless you'd like to say that Volus and, what was it, a Krogan? They were villains, too, obviously. That's actually a good point and I'd forgotten about those videos. I don't think any of that actually counters my assertion that Renegade Shep is essentially a villain though, it just changes the tone of one thing he does. I will say I think you're focusing too much on her gender. She's clearly supposed to be a stand in for a  style reporter and the reason you're supposed to find it satisfying to see her attacked is not because she's a woman, but because she's .Again, that's not to say I find that satisfying - I don't even want to see actual, real people attacked, I want to see them publically shamed and humiliated with logic and reason every time they open their mouths, and it's pretty fitting that that is essentially what Paragon Shepard does Al-Jilani.Personally, I think it's pretty damning of you to write off Conrad's abuse as okay and funny, but not Al-Jilani's. I don't find either to be all that funny.
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Apr 20, 2012 15:08
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Khalisah Bint Sinan al-Jilani is the Geraldo Rivera of the Mass Effect universe. It's ok to punch them. They're reporters. It'd be different if Khali was running a bakery on the Citadel and you punch her for messing up an order of muffins, but since she's an in-your-face type of reporter, it doesn't matter. The context of a punch is important.
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Apr 20, 2012 15:09
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Affi posted:But its okay to shoot Conrad in the foot? No, I don't think it was. I actually felt kind of sorry for Conrad, he was so just confused and harmless. I was actually pretty upset with the little bit I forgot to do in ME1 having such a profound effect in ME3 with him. I mean the guy is attempting to start an orphanage for chrissakes. I'm just not enough of a dick to shoot him. HoveringCheesecake posted:Since this thread has already served its purpose why not get it closed via some trainwreck, feminism derail. This is our SUPPORT group. This is where we come together to share and FEEL with the group. Do you need a hug?
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Apr 20, 2012 15:13
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Aristobulus posted:That's actually a good point and I'd forgotten about those videos. I don't think any of that actually counters my assertion that Renegade Shep is essentially a villain though, it just changes the tone of one thing he does. I'm sorry, I just don't think gender politics is something you can write off that easily. I'd love to be in a society where domestic abuse doesn't happen, or at least happened in a gender-equal kind of way, but it's just not like that. There are still deep and real problems that make this kind of thing really problematic to have in a game. quote:
Also, I didn't say anything about Conrad at all, I don't think it's funny to shoot him in the foot, but it doesn't contribute at all to any kind of oppression of a disenfranchised group in society, so I'm not hugely concerned about it. I do think you're right about Renegade Shep being more villain than hero, though - what an rear end in a top hat RenShep is. HoveringCheesecake posted:Since this thread has already served its purpose why not get it closed via some trainwreck, feminism derail. Honestly, I'm sure this has been talked to death, and I don't want to be obnoxious about it, but it's something I think about whenever I encounter her in these games, and I think it's a discussion worth having. I don't think it's okay and I wish Bioware had handled it differently - couldn't Shep just have smashed her camera, or something? 
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Apr 20, 2012 15:16
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TyroneGoldstein posted:No, I don't think it was. I actually felt kind of sorry for Conrad, he was so just confused and harmless. I was actually pretty upset with the little bit I forgot to do in ME1 having such a profound effect in ME3 with him. I mean the guy is attempting to start an orphanage for chrissakes. I'm just not enough of a dick to shoot him. I just think this would be more suited to the spoilers thread, since that thing won't be around forever. This one will be here for a bit longer methinks.
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Apr 20, 2012 15:18
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Dush posted:You'd be on more defensible ground if it wasn't for the videos in LOTSB showing Jilani getting beat up by various guys. If it was just RenShep, then maybe you'd be right, but nope sorry. Unless you'd like to say that Volus and, what was it, a Krogan? They were villains, too, obviously.
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Apr 20, 2012 15:20
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Dush posted:couldn't Shep just have smashed her camera, or something? No, he can't, because he's a violent person that actively enjoys hurting people. He takes pleasure from this. Not only does he enjoy punching Al-Jilani, he enjoys doing things like shooting Conrad and beating the everloving poo poo out of that restrained prisoner, with Thane, in ME2. He also enjoys doing things like executing Shiala with a bullet to the back of the head, shooting Rana Thanoptis, misleading a Volus so he charges into a room of mercs and gets himself killed, etc. The thing is, if Renegade Shepard were to actually be less violent as in your example, it would be a shift of character. More than that, it would be something that displays him as actively more sympathetic and nice of a character because "well poo poo at least Renegade Shep is self aware and won't hurt a woman, he's not such a bad guy after all" But he is. He's a horrible person that does horrible things. Recognizing that hurting Al-Jilani is a bad thing would make him a nicer person. This is not what he is.
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Apr 20, 2012 15:23
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Dush posted:Men have, and have had historically, a privileged role in society and thus I'm not hugely concerned about how they get treated in a male power fantasy game. Have some feminism 101 from this (regrettably recently locked) D&D thread! http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3452508 While I agree with you completely, it's probably best not to stoke fires about something we've discussed to death in this thread, the minority videogames thread (before it was gassed) and the spoilers thread. we're all acutely aware of how grossly misogynist many things in this game are, but it's nice to actually be able to talk about the few things we enjoy like the actual gameplay which doesn't happen in the spoiler thread. Dush posted:Also, I didn't say anything about Conrad at all, I don't think it's funny to shoot him in the foot, but it doesn't contribute at all to any kind of oppression of a disenfranchised group in society, so I'm not hugely concerned about it. I do think you're right about Renegade Shep being more villain than hero, though - what an rear end in a top hat RenShep is. let's move on shall we? Banjodark fucked around with this message at 15:29 on Apr 20, 2012 |
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Apr 20, 2012 15:25
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So I missed a ton of pages and skimmed the last one. Stop the derail or I will vanguard sperg so hard you won't even remember when I started my monologue  Also this is one of the best scenes in the trilogy, deal with it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jzv5k6p0Swo
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Apr 20, 2012 15:30
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Zedd posted:Also this is one of the best scenes in the trilogy, deal with it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBe7Xa5ZEgk p.s what's everybody's favourite scene in the trilogy?
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Apr 20, 2012 15:31
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Aristobulus posted:That's actually a good point and I'd forgotten about those videos. I don't think any of that actually counters my assertion that Renegade Shep is essentially a villain though, it just changes the tone of one thing he does. Mass Effect is, by and large, a power fantasy. I think we can all agree on that - you're the all conquering hero, the only one who can save the universe. The problem comes when that hero character does things that are problematic and common in society in general. One of the major issues with things such as portrayal of women as sexual objects first is that its ubiquity reinforces peoples' underlying prejudices. The Renegade path has, from day one, been a problematic mixture of "being a jerk" and "being a cool guy who plays by his own rules" (there's some overlap there, I know). If you think sexism (and racism, there's a huge amount of it from Shep in the first game against the non-human species) is bad then you interpret that as "Shepard is a flawed loose cannon". But if you don't think sexism and racism are bad already then it's very easy to interpret it as "Wow, there's this cool hero guy and he thinks the way I do so it must be correct".
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Apr 20, 2012 15:31
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Aristobulus posted:No, he can't, because he's a violent person that actively enjoys hurting people. He takes pleasure from this. Not only does he enjoy punching Al-Jilani, he enjoys doing things like shooting Conrad and beating the everloving poo poo out of that restrained prisoner, with Thane, in ME2. He also enjoys doing things like executing Shiala with a bullet to the back of the head, shooting Rana Thanoptis, misleading a Volus so he charges into a room of mercs and gets himself killed, etc. The problem with this argument is that Shepard, being controlled by the player, isn't at all locked into being Paragon or Renegade. You can be Paragon the entire game except for punching al-Jilani in the face - and that makes characterisation arguments kind of deflate, I think. TESTICLES Shepard is not a sadistic, violent man - except when he's got an exciting opportunity to punch a lady in the face. If an NPC had done it, I could accept it's part of their character (still totally unnecessary though, the game sure wouldn't suffer without that Renegade option), but Shepard is still (to various degrees) under the player's control. Banjodark posted:It sucks, it's terrible but this is a game with Miranda's rear end, the entire asari race, Samara's breasts, EDI's camel-toe, the traynor shower scene, banging kelly chambers in the shipping crates and a fandom who for the longest time enjoyed the phrase 'the best batarian is a dead batarian'. Alright, fair enough. I'm honestly enjoying ME3, despite everything. Some changes have irked me (where did my middle-of-the-road Blandshep loving go, God dammit), but overall it's good. It's very grim so far, too. Palaven...  Also totally not looking forward to the ending.e: Also, if the Palaven scenes didn't bother you more than the scenes on Earth at the beginning of the game, you're playing Mass Effect wrong.
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Apr 20, 2012 15:32
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I thought the most recent patch fixed the import face bug? Because on my new Adept character it changed her face to one of the defaults, though, I don't think it's actually possible for her to carry over anyway. The hair colors are different, and its not possible to make the cheeks/jaw as sharp as diamonds anymore. I did enjoy that I could play the same way in all three games: Adept with a focus on Barrier and Assault Rifles. I didn't like how Biotic Mastery chose the other option (the one that isn't reputation) so even if I wanted to it, it is now impossible for me to make TIM kill himself, because there was no way to get high enough reputation without it, but since I was going for the other way to end that, I'm not too concerned. Also that was the first time I saw the new default face for FemShep and holy poo poo is that bad.
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Apr 20, 2012 15:45
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Dush posted:in a game with a predominantly male playerbase it raises a few flags. It's just about treating physical violence towards a woman as funny/acceptable, I don't think that's alright. I just don't like the fact that Shepard, who is a dangerous and deadly soldier and Universal Badass, feels compelled to deck a defenseless, unarmed civilian for exercising her free speech rights. It makes even Renegade Shepard seem petty and childish. I could see why people liked it in the first game - it's so asymmetrical and sudden, and that's humorous - but then it got uncomfortable. Edit: Whoops, saw BanjoDark's post, sorry I brought this back up.
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Apr 20, 2012 15:48
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Banjodark posted:p.s what's everybody's favourite scene in the trilogy? Nothing in the entire series has ever come close to the first time I played the ending of ME1. Specifically the point where you break out of the Citadel elevator and climb the tower. Then you look up and notice Sovereign's massive bulk towering in the distance.  The reunion with Wrex in ME2 is also one of my favorite moments.
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Apr 20, 2012 15:49
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