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octoroon posted:Yeah, I tend to agree with this. If you're making a simple 2D game, you'd have to make some pretty serious mistakes for the "engine overhead" of Unity to be any sort of concern, unless I guess it's really important that people be able to run your game on a toaster. Well yeah if you're aiming at super low end systems it's going to be an issue but I was actually talking about situations where you're aiming to build a very small game project and the Unity engine itself takes up megs of space. A number of friends who have been building games aimed at 3g iOS users have run into this. But yeah obviously for most people this isn't going to be an issue which is why I specifically said Unity wasn't possible ideal for very small or very large projects.
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Jun 10, 2012 18:18
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Der Shovel posted:Well yeah if you're aiming at super low end systems it's going to be an issue but I was actually talking about situations where you're aiming to build a very small game project and the Unity engine itself takes up megs of space. A number of friends who have been building games aimed at 3g iOS users have run into this. Is the final binary size really so big that there is a technical issue with installation? Like, are they hitting the limit where the App Store forces it over to wi-fi only? Otherwise I don't really see a problem with doing small-scale games in Unity. If it's serious enough to release on the App Store it's probably a good candidate for Unity.
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Jun 10, 2012 18:31
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octoroon posted:Is the final binary size really so big that there is a technical issue with installation? Like, are they hitting the limit where the App Store forces it over to wi-fi only? Otherwise I don't really see a problem. Yeah, I'm not getting this either. I picked up an iPhone 2G for testing a while ago and aside from binary sizes (which you can get pretty small with the stripping features in Pro), I've yet to encounter a problem that wasn't shader performance related.
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Jun 10, 2012 18:33
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octoroon posted:Is the final binary size really so big that there is a technical issue with installation? Like, are they hitting the limit where the App Store forces it over to wi-fi only? Yep. There's a hard size limit before you can only install over WiFi. And it's not a lot. 20 megs IIRC. I mean the Unity stuff alone doesn't push it over but it does take off a sizable chunk. ANYWAY I was not and still am not saying this is a problem that will affect most or even many people. I'm just saying there are cases where you might want to use something other than Unity as much as I like it. And I do like it a lot.
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Jun 10, 2012 18:35
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Der Shovel posted:Yep. There's a hard size limit before you can only install over WiFi. And it's not a lot. 20 megs IIRC. That's the case on all iOS devices, not just the iPhone 3G. There's a reason that's a jailbreak feature.
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Jun 10, 2012 18:36
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NINbuntu 64 posted:That's the case on all iOS devices, not just the iPhone 3G. There's a reason that's a jailbreak feature. Right, I'm not talking about a specific iPhone, I'm talking about connecting over 3g or whatever the USA uses in its stead as opposed to WiFi.
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Jun 10, 2012 18:37
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The over the air limit is 50Mb now. Last I looked Unity itself meant a game would be about 15Mb (iOS "hello world" type thing with no other assets adding to the file size).
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Jun 10, 2012 18:50
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FreakyZoid posted:The over the air limit is 50Mb now. Last I looked Unity itself meant a game would be about 15Mb (iOS "hello world" type thing with no other assets adding to the file size). That's with the free version. With the stripping in the pro version it's 6 or 7ish.
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Jun 10, 2012 19:06
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FreakyZoid posted:The over the air limit is 50Mb now. Last I looked Unity itself meant a game would be about 15Mb (iOS "hello world" type thing with no other assets adding to the file size). Yeah, they upped the OTA limit fairly recently (within the last few months), so even if this was a problem before, it shouldn't be now.
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Jun 10, 2012 19:07
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Der Shovel posted:I mean I love it to bits and we use it for all our dumb indie games but there are definitely many scenarios where I'd use Unreal over it. Oh sure, go with Unreal if Unity isn't good enough, but I was wondering: why bother with the HL2 engine with all of its problems? I now know the answer to that is because that's what the dev team (same team that made Dystopia) is familiar with.
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Jun 10, 2012 19:20
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Licensing is also an issue to consider, UDK, is $250k for a full license, or 25% of the profits. Unity is $1500 for pro, and then again for each android and ios if your into mobile. Unity is FAR more affordable, and a better solution for a starting developer. Also its GameObject inheritance design is actually really handy, and makes troubleshooting very easy. When we are done with Kinetic Void, and are moving on to our next project we will evaluate what engine we will use, but passing on from Unity will be hard as we will have experience with it and our licenses are already paid for.
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Jun 10, 2012 19:28
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Krenzo posted:Oh sure, go with Unreal if Unity isn't good enough, but I was wondering: why bother with the HL2 engine with all of its problems? I now know the answer to that is because that's what the dev team (same team that made Dystopia) is familiar with. No idea, I've never done a drat thing with the HL2 engine or Source. Maybe if you're used to it from other projects or something it'd make sense but yeah if you're getting into game development or working on fun indie stuff, go for Unity. Every time unless you specifically know of a reason not to. LumberingTroll posted:Licensing is also an issue to consider, UDK, is $250k for a full license, or 25% of the profits. Holy hell, where is that 250k from? Is that for buying a full Unreal Engine license or something, because UDK isn't anywhere near as expensive. It's actually pretty good these days. (EDIT: could that be a full UE license? Because that's different from an UDK license) UDK posted:A team creates a game with UDK that they intend to sell. After six months of development, they release the game through digital distribution and they earn US$60,000 in the first calendar quarter after release. Their use of UDK during development requires no fee. At some point prior to the UDK Application’s release they will need to secure a royalty-bearing commercial UDK license with its US$99 license fee. After earning US$60,000, they would be required to pay Epic US$2,500 (US$0 on the first US$50,000 in revenue, and US$2,500 on the next US$10,000 in revenue). On subsequent revenue, they are required to pay the 25% royalty. The upside to Unity is that you don't have to share profits with anyone, but the downside is that getting the 1500 together can be a serious hurdle for people who are just messing around or developing without any outside cash sources. I speak from experience as someone who scrounged to put together the ~1300 euros for a pro license. LumberingTroll posted:When we are done with Kinetic Void, and are moving on to our next project we will evaluate what engine we will use, but passing on from Unity will be hard as we will have experience with it and our licenses are already paid for. Yeah. I've been wanting to try my hand at some proper UDK development or even code up an engine myself, but Unity is so loving nice when you get used to it and bashing things up is so easy and effortless in it. Drag this here, drag that here, tick these boxes, boom, done. Working scene. Shaman Tank Spec fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Jun 10, 2012 |
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Jun 10, 2012 19:40
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If a person is "just messing around" then there's a perfectly fine free version of Unity to work with.
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Jun 10, 2012 19:57
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Der Shovel posted:
Yeah thats for the full royalty free license, UDK is $99 per seat, and 25% after 50k revenue.
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Jun 10, 2012 20:51
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That sword game looks cool, but I'd rather see a return to Die by the Sword and less waggle wii-mote. I don't have a warehouse to dress up like a night and swing a fake sword around, but I would love to do some crazy detailed sword fighting.
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Jun 10, 2012 21:04
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According to the updates in the FAQ, CLANG is using Unite (not Source) and Razor Hydra is their current recommended hardware and what they are using for development.
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Jun 10, 2012 21:10
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Also according to CLANG, they are already at $125,000. Looks like the "feeling like I am actually swinging a sword around" crowd is substantial after all. That was a pretty sweet pitch video, too. why are so many gaming studios in Seattle
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Jun 10, 2012 21:24
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Arnold of Soissons posted:According to the updates in the FAQ, CLANG is using Unite (not Source) Where does it say that? All I see is: "We are leaning strongly towards Unity, which does not currently support Linux." Their prototype is definitely running on Source which implies they're going to throw out their current work and start over.
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Jun 10, 2012 21:39
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Quarex posted:Also according to CLANG, they are already at $125,000. Looks like the "feeling like I am actually swinging a sword around" crowd is substantial after all. And Neal's got a good point when he says that we have tons of big-budget shooters with at least moderately realistic gun action, whereas basically all games with swordfighting come down to "press A, swing sword in ridiculous over-the-top animation in a general direction".
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Jun 10, 2012 21:52
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Cicero posted:Is this really surprising? I mean just think how big the anime-loving nerd demographic is. It's definitely an unexplored niche. I guess the big question is still how large a niche it is. So far, so good though.
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Jun 10, 2012 21:55
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I just heard about this big videogame music bundle kickstarter project. Basically, the various rewards are digital downloads and/or CDs of various game soundtracks/arrange albums from a wide variety of artists: Kickstarter page The main focus is on releasing a 2CD set: one CD for music from Rokko-chan* and one CD for arrangements thereof. However, there are other video game music things involved, including (a lot more than) "Super Meat Boy Choice Piano Cuts", "The Binding of Isaac: The Wrath of the Lamb", CDs of Hydorah music, and live music from Nobuo Uematsu. *Rokko-chan is a well-regarded 8-bit Megaman style game done in Flash and playable here. (You need joy to key if you want to use a gamepad.) dirby fucked around with this message at 00:28 on Jun 11, 2012 |
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Jun 10, 2012 22:13
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Cicero posted:Is this really surprising? I mean just think how big the anime-loving nerd demographic is. Games with guns are really 1:1 representations, just saying.
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Jun 10, 2012 22:19
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Boiled Water posted:Games with guns are really 1:1 representations, just saying. The thesis that 1:1 or "ultra realism" will make a game more fun is kind of dubious, though. Take Modern Warfare Part Deux Part Deux versus something like Tribes Ascend. You don't always need to add more realism to get more nuance or complexity, though occasionally it's a good starting point. I'm always kind of dubious when someone wants to "reboot" a genre or game play type by making it more of a simulator. speng31b fucked around with this message at 00:26 on Jun 11, 2012 |
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Jun 11, 2012 00:23
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octoroon posted:The thesis that 1:1 or "ultra realism" will make a game more fun is kind of dubious, though. Take Modern Warfare Part Deux Part Deux versus something like Tribes Ascend. You don't always need to add more realism to get more nuance or complexity, though occasionally it's a good starting point. I'm always kind of dubious when someone wants to "reboot" a genre or game play type by making it more of a simulator. Reality can be useful to draw on though if you want to add depth to gameplay, because it's never simple, and everything tends to have inherent strengths and weaknesses. That seems to be what he's going for here; making deeper, more nuanced swordfighting by mimicking reality to the extent that it is possible in a video game. Cicero fucked around with this message at 06:50 on Jun 11, 2012 |
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Jun 11, 2012 06:48
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When people think being too realistic is Call of Duty's problem I don't know what to think. But yes, there is a difference between going from a realistic base and adapting it to entertainment or art, versus pedantic realistic stuff that nobody cares about. I hope Neal has a good grasp on the difference. If he does, you don't even necessarily have to be a swordfighting nerd - how many well researched things have you enjoyed in other mediums? I don't have a fetish for crime or police work, but I know I loved The Wire.
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Jun 11, 2012 07:01
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Cicero posted:Is this really surprising? I mean just think how big the anime-loving nerd demographic is. (well, my impression is that it is huge here) Electric Pope posted:When people think being too realistic is Call of Duty's problem I don't know what to think.
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Jun 11, 2012 08:01
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Electric Pope posted:When people think being too realistic is Call of Duty's problem I don't know what to think. I didn't mean to imply that CoD is realistic as a whole, but the core gunplay mechanics are definitely firmly embedded in the subgenre of FPS that went with gun mechanics taken from reality as opposed to something drawing from old-school Quake or whatever with railguns and lasers and energy weapons that tend to do more "lead and predict" over "point and click." But anyhow, yes, I do agree that reality can be a strong base to draw from for complexity that can also be fun and engaging. It's naturally relatable as opposed to just pulling something out of thin air. But as you mentioned, when done wrong it can also turn pedantic -- which is why I say that I'm dubious, basically, until proven otherwise when someone's core pitch is heavily tied up in the idea of "realism."
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Jun 11, 2012 08:04
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Cicero posted:He's not saying that realism automatically makes a game more fun. He's just a swordfighting nerd that is disappointed that there aren't any games around with swordfighting that even attempts to come close to reality. I mean I'm sure he believes it will be more fun for him, but that's different from just saying that it will be more fun in general. Well, he has a point that it is lacking, most games where swords are involved won't even let you choose direction of your strike just execute predefined animation of 1,2 or 3 on targeted bad guy. Personally, I don't think realistic sword control will be fun, swinging and blocking manually was a bit of annoyance in Daggerfall and Mount & Blade and that with only basic direction control. Most duels with realistic control will end in first strike kill or accidentally cutting off some body part of your own. 
Pyromancer fucked around with this message at 08:19 on Jun 11, 2012 |
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Jun 11, 2012 08:17
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Pyromancer posted:Well, he has a point that it is lacking, most games where swords are involved won't even let you choose direction of your strike just execute predefined animation of 1,2 or 3 on targeted bad guy. Personally, I don't think realistic sword control will be fun, swinging and blocking manually was a bit of annoyance in Daggerfall and Mount & Blade and that with only basic direction control. Hey, give me some credit man. I have a very extensive collection of Samurai swords and I have never once cut myself. I practice Bushido with them 3 hours a day while I watch anime too.
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Jun 11, 2012 09:26
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For those who are unfamiliar with Neal Stephenson as a writer, he wrote a book called Snow Crash wherein Hiro Protagonist, master hacker and swordsman, duels people in The Street (Second Life well before it actually existed) for fun and profit and is the greatest (virtual) swordsman in the world, and trains in the real world as well, with his training in both worlds affecting the other. The fact that we have a programmable virtual world with fixed real estate but no good swordfighting seems like inventing easy chairs but upholstering them with plywood.
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Jun 11, 2012 09:57
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If you guys want sword fighting maybe age of chivalry would fit the bill? I never played it but it does look awesome, it's the standalone game that followed the source engine mod, if I'm not mistaken. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Y0las3-e1M
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Jun 11, 2012 14:30
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Age of Chivalry is a lot like Mount and Blade, but without the large goon playerbase. The main game modes, instead of being team death match, are objective based (get this bridge built, push bomb cart over bridge). It also has decapitations and a larger selection of classes, which determine weapons, armor, and movement speed. The combat though is mostly the same; There are 4 directions to swing or poke at, and directional blocking.
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Jun 11, 2012 15:45
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I feel really bad on the behalf of the Embers of Caerus team who are planning some cool stuff, but planning it for a subscription MMO to launch in 2016. Also Conquest 2 pulled its pitch down, so you might want to update that. A shame, I loved the first game, but they were way overreaching there. Orv fucked around with this message at 16:26 on Jun 11, 2012 |
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Jun 11, 2012 16:19
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Orv posted:I feel really bad on the behalf of the Embers of Caerus team who are planning some cool stuff, but planning it for a subscription MMO to launch in 2016. I don't feel bad for the team, I feel bad at the poor suckers who donated.
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Jun 11, 2012 16:23
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Sigma-X posted:For those who are unfamiliar with Neal Stephenson as a writer, he wrote a book called Snow Crash wherein Hiro Protagonist, master hacker and swordsman, duels people in The Street (Second Life well before it actually existed) for fun and profit and is the greatest (virtual) swordsman in the world, and trains in the real world as well, with his training in both worlds affecting the other. Oh, he wrote that book? You are aware that everything in it was tongue in cheek and intentionally over the top, right? It's actually a fairly humorous take on cyberpunk. I was wondering where I'd heard his name before and was too lazy to google it.
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Jun 11, 2012 16:25
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Al! posted:I don't feel bad for the team, I feel bad at the poor suckers who donated. Fair point. But hey, maybe they wise up somewhere between now and then and realize that subscription MMOs don't work anymore. (I find that possibility unlikely.)
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Jun 11, 2012 16:27
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Orv posted:Fair point. But hey, maybe they wise up somewhere between now and then and realize that subscription MMOs don't work anymore. Forget the business model. The Old Republic is desperate to hold onto a million subscribers despite being the biggest nerd property ever. Kingdoms of Amalur failed spectacularly recently taking tens of millions of taxpayer dollars with it and they didn't have much more to show than a handful of empty maps. Who is going to give this inexperienced team the millions upon millions of dollars it takes to make an MMO in this day and age? I can't believe people paid $1000 for a lifetime subscription to an MMO that will never come out. But hey, a fool and his money are soon parted.
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Jun 11, 2012 16:37
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Sigma-X posted:For those who are unfamiliar with Neal Stephenson as a writer, he wrote a book called Snow Crash wherein Hiro Protagonist, master hacker and swordsman, duels people in The Street (Second Life well before it actually existed) for fun and profit and is the greatest (virtual) swordsman in the world, and trains in the real world as well, with his training in both worlds affecting the other. Clearly this is the first step in bringing The Street to life. 
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Jun 11, 2012 16:41
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YOURFRIEND posted:Oh, he wrote that book? You are aware that everything in it was tongue in cheek and intentionally over the top, right? It's actually a fairly humorous take on cyberpunk. I was wondering where I'd heard his name before and was too lazy to google it. poo poo really? I had no idea that a book with a character named Hiro Protagonist and with a huge brute of a guy with "POOR IMPULSE CONTROL" tattooed on his forehead was intentionally over the top. What does any of that have to do with the fact that it demonstrates that Neal Stephenson has had a hard-on for a long time for virtual swordfighting?
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Jun 11, 2012 16:41
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About 25 hours left on The Two Guys From Andromeda's Kickstarter, and coincidently they are about $25k from their goal. This is really exciting. 
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Jun 11, 2012 16:42
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