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SamEyeAm
Jun 6, 2013

Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.

Lockback posted:

To make it more complex there is 2070 & 2060 and 2070 & 2060 Max-Q, where MQ have reduced clock speeds for power savings. Which one is "better" depends on thermals and how often you'll be gaming without a power cord.

If you're going to be doing AAA gaming the 2060 is probably worth the extra cost over the 1660ti due to the DLSS, if not I don't think it is (unless a lot more Indie or lower-tier games get DLSS). So basically clear as mud.

It will always be plugged in, so the Max-Q versions donít appeal to me. Leaning towards the 2060 after hearing from yíall. Seems to be a sweet spot, unless I find a killer deal on one with a 2070.

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DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

SamEyeAm posted:

It will always be plugged in, so the Max-Q versions don’t appeal to me. Leaning towards the 2060 after hearing from y’all. Seems to be a sweet spot, unless I find a killer deal on one with a 2070.

It's still worth looking up specific reviews for the model(s) you're considering. There are laptops with full-fat GPUs with lovely cooling that ends up with them throttling to the point they're barely (if at all) faster than the MaxQ versions. Though thankfully those cases are a lot less common than in previous generations.

Stanley Pain
Jun 16, 2001

Bit. Trip. RIP.



Color Gamut: 45%NTSC

SamEyeAm
Jun 6, 2013

Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.

Trying to wrap my head around the options. Tell me if this is right..

2070 - full power version, potential drawback is overheating. Full fat milk?
2070 Max-Q - power is limited to help with overheating. Skim milk?
2070 Super Max-Q - somewhere in between? 2% milk?

Taima
Dec 31, 2006




https://www.tomshardware.com/news/n...ch-by-september

Toms Hardware is suggesting that final Ampere products are heading to partners within 1-2 weeks, positing that the launch could even be as early as the end of August. As always, grain/salt/etc

That seems super optimistic but I'm hoping they'll at least unveil the lineup by end of next month.

Taima fucked around with this message at 23:50 on Jul 30, 2020

shrike82
Jun 11, 2005

Get the fuck in your cage and shut the fuck up, you stupid fucking Mexicans. Your voice doesn't fucking matter unless you support OUR rapist.

OBAMA DID NOTHING WRONG


SamEyeAm posted:

For laptop GeForce cards, where is the best value currently? The least powerful Iím willing to go is 1660Ti. Is the performance increase of the 2060 worth the extra cost? Or the 2070 compared to the 2060? Donít think Iíll be forking out for anything with a 2080.

The ROG G14 is popular these days with the combo of an AMD 8-core CPU with a 2060 in a small 14" form-factor.

Fauxtool
Oct 21, 2008



cost not accounted for, is a 1080ti in an egpu enclosure a worthwhile upgrade over the 2070 max-q currently in my laptop?

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

Fauxtool posted:

cost not accounted for, is a 1080ti in an egpu enclosure a worthwhile upgrade over the 2070 max-q currently in my laptop?

Depends. In pure numbers, the 1080Ti is 40-50% faster than a 2070 MaxQ. But being in an eGPU hurts a lot: you can expect to lose about 20% if you're outputting directly to an external screen and 30-50% if you're dragging it back in to use the laptop screen (30/40/50% for TB3/2/1 connections, respectively), which puts quite the damper on how much actual benefit you'd get, to the point of almost 0% on a TB1 connection.

But, yeah, if you're using an external screen you'd still get maybe a 30% speed bump. Whether that's worth the cost of such a setup is another question entirely. 1080ti prices should also drop once the 3000's are actually announced.

Lockback
Sep 2, 2006

All days are nights to see till I see thee; and nights bright days when dreams do show me thee.


SamEyeAm posted:

Trying to wrap my head around the options. Tell me if this is right..

2070 - full power version, potential drawback is overheating. Full fat milk?
2070 Max-Q - power is limited to help with overheating. Skim milk?
2070 Super Max-Q - somewhere in between? 2% milk?

Sort of, though they are very close.

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Mobil...=1&memorytype=1

2070S fat is the top but I don't know I've seen those too often. 2070S-MQ is a nice GPU.

BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

Make your move...'cause mine's gonna be ugly.

The 2070 Super is effectively a 2080. They use the same core.

ufarn
May 30, 2009


Nvidia's ARM acquisition is sounding very likely.

Hasturtium
May 19, 2020

Netflix: HEY WE HAVE NEW SERIES
Me: I don't watch much series TV
Netflix: HERE'S AN AD FOR ONE SIX SECONDS AFTER THE LAST SHOW YOU JUST WATCHED
Me: No, man, quit it
Netflix: HOW ABOUT ANOTHER EDGY DOCUMENTARY
Me: Can I watch a movie from the seventies
Netflix: NO

Hey goons, I snagged a Radeon Founder's Edition for scientific computing with some light gaming on the side. The default clocks and thermals are pretty... optimistic, given its cooling, and I've had some luck with undervolting and selective downclocking while playing with the power limit. But here's my question: does anyone here have the stock Vega 64 pstate voltages and clockspeed values? I've had a bear of a time finding them online, and would love to have access to that data as a saner baseline than what the card tries to push by default.

movax
Aug 30, 2008



ufarn posted:

Nvidia's ARM acquisition is sounding very likely.

Am I going crazy or did I remember NVIDIA's Falcon being based on RISC-V as their new mini processor they are sprinkling on all their hardware (inside all of their ASICs)? Not that they were doing it to try and completely side-step / avoid ARM, but not having to pay a license fee on every GPU they sell + getting your feet wet with a different ISA is always a good thing. I'm not intimately familiar with Mellanox's offerings under the hood, but since they now got that business too, I wonder if there is some consolidation of processors to be had.

The crazy thing to me was diving into the Jetson (IIRC) block diagram and realizing how hog-wild they went with sprinkling SIP blocks around ó IIRC the audio subsystem has a full Cortex-A9 hanging out in there because I'm sure someone there was like "Well I not only have the RTL but also a layout for this block, so glue it to your AXI bus and hey, free audio "DSP"!".

Subjunctive
Sep 12, 2006

careful now


Cybernetic Crumb

https://twitter.com/gfxlisa/status/...5337578496?s=21

Interested to see how this performs when Xe gets going.

ijyt
Apr 10, 2012



Taima posted:

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/n...ch-by-september

Toms Hardware is suggesting that final Ampere products are heading to partners within 1-2 weeks, positing that the launch could even be as early as the end of August. As always, grain/salt/etc

That seems super optimistic but I'm hoping they'll at least unveil the lineup by end of next month.

What a terrible time for my friend to be coming to me asking for PC advice. Wonder if it's worth holding off for potential 2xxx price cuts.

K8.0
Feb 26, 2004

Her Majesty's 56th Regiment of Foot

It's worth holding out for the 3000 series. The only time it's been a particularly good move to buy a price cut GPU just before a new generation was the 1080 Ti, and that was a combination of price ripples from the crypto market cratering and how unimpressive Turing was at launch. You're not going to see those conditions this time around, right now it's time to patiently sit on your money. If your friend needs a GPU right now, he should go buy a used RX 580 and turn around and resell it in a few months.

Enos Cabell
Nov 3, 2004



Now is just about the right time to hunt for deals on an evga 2xxx card if you want to gamble on the step-up window.

BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

Make your move...'cause mine's gonna be ugly.

As of today, you're pretty safe if you take a bet on the EVGA Step Up program. Just read this entire page and *follow the directions* to avoid getting sandbagged: https://www.evga.com/support/stepup/

Expect a 3-6 month wait to get your "it's your turn" email, too.

Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010

Don't look at me-
I'm ugly in the morning
When the headaches gone
The sun is not.
Forgot to turn the alarm
On - on




Pillbug

BIG HEADLINE posted:

As of today, you're pretty safe if you take a bet on the EVGA Step Up program. Just read this entire page and *follow the directions* to avoid getting sandbagged: https://www.evga.com/support/stepup/

Expect a 3-6 month wait to get your "it's your turn" email, too.

Part of me is tempted to get a 2080S now as an upgrade to my 2070S and stepping up to a 3080 or 3090. I really doubt the 2080S is enough of an improvement to make dealing with shipping stuff worthwhile though.

BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

Make your move...'cause mine's gonna be ugly.

Ugly In The Morning posted:

Part of me is tempted to get a 2080S now as an upgrade to my 2070S and stepping up to a 3080 or 3090. I really doubt the 2080S is enough of an improvement to make dealing with shipping stuff worthwhile though.

It isn't - I think the 2080S is only ~5% faster (in most cases) than the 2080, and the 2070S *is* for all intents and purposes a 2080. The ~other~ thing they really should put in the Step Up directions is "please consider if you'll have the money on hand to pay the difference when your window opens in up to six months' time."

If the 3090 is going to be the new "Titan," it wouldn't surprise me if EVGA doesn't give it as an option. Obviously we won't know until THEY SAY ~SOMETHING~.

BIG HEADLINE fucked around with this message at 22:16 on Jul 31, 2020

Endymion FRS MK1
Oct 28, 2011



How long typically after a launch are water-cooled cards available? I've been thinking recently of upgrading from my 2070S with a block to something that came water ready from the factory

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

Endymion FRS MK1 posted:

How long typically after a launch are water-cooled cards available? I've been thinking recently of upgrading from my 2070S with a block to something that came water ready from the factory

It can be a few months, if you mean the AIO versions. The 1080Ti launched in March 2017, the EVGA hybrid came out in May 2017. The 2080 came out at the end of Sep 2018, but I don't think the EVGA hybrid was out until Jan/Feb 2019. MSI has the Sea Hawk line, too, but I didn't check on the dates for those.

You can also add your own on there via a AIO of your choice (H55 is a favorite) plus a G10/G12 bracket. Doing it yourself really isn't hard, is generally cheaper, and you can (hopefully) transport it to a new card if you care to. Plus you can do that day 1, assuming you can get a GPU at all.

If you're talking the full-block versions to tie in to a CLC, those are highly variable, but generally not for a few months after launch at least.

VelociBacon
Dec 8, 2009



Endymion FRS MK1 posted:

How long typically after a launch are water-cooled cards available? I've been thinking recently of upgrading from my 2070S with a block to something that came water ready from the factory

The EVGA stuff took quite a long time to release. I bought their hybrid kit and put it on my 2080ti because it came out before the prepackaged kits.

Endymion FRS MK1
Oct 28, 2011



DrDork posted:

It can be a few months, if you mean the AIO versions. The 1080Ti launched in March 2017, the EVGA hybrid came out in May 2017. The 2080 came out at the end of Sep 2018, but I don't think the EVGA hybrid was out until Jan/Feb 2019. MSI has the Sea Hawk line, too, but I didn't check on the dates for those.

You can also add your own on there via a AIO of your choice (H55 is a favorite) plus a G10/G12 bracket. Doing it yourself really isn't hard, is generally cheaper, and you can (hopefully) transport it to a new card if you care to. Plus you can do that day 1, assuming you can get a GPU at all.

If you're talking the full-block versions to tie in to a CLC, those are highly variable, but generally not for a few months after launch at least.

I've done the G12/H55 dance, I've moved onto a custom loop

I'm wondering about stuff with blocks pre-applied from the factory. I think MSI's Seahawk line is like that, and I thought EVGA has some of the hydro copper for use in a loop

VelociBacon posted:

The EVGA stuff took quite a long time to release. I bought their hybrid kit and put it on my 2080ti because it came out before the prepackaged kits.

Hmm. Hopefully not too long this time

Endymion FRS MK1 fucked around with this message at 23:17 on Jul 31, 2020

Indiana_Krom
Jun 18, 2007
Net Slacker

I seem to recall it took several months for MSI to make their Sea Hawk EK unit available for each generation, I was mildly tempted by the 2080ti version but decided against it because it was a custom board (I've had better luck with reference boards).

My current card is a 1080 Sea Hawk, the one with the AIO, but I pulled the AIO and stuck an EKWB full cover block on it instead. It is coming up on 4 years old and still kicking, I never would have thought a GPU would last that long and still be reasonably relevant. But I am fairly interested in whatever the 3000 series has to offer, ready to jump on the RTX/DLSS bandwagons.

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

Endymion FRS MK1 posted:

I've done the G12/H55 dance, I've moved onto a custom loop

Then you might be better off looking at some of the 3rd parties like Bykski, EK, or Phanteks to put out a full block. Chances are it'll be out faster, and it probably won't end up being much (if any) more expensive than whatever EVGA / MSI put out. EVGA has used the "Hydro Copper" line for the full loop cards, MSI called theirs the "Sea Hawk EK."

Endymion FRS MK1
Oct 28, 2011



DrDork posted:

Then you might be better off looking at some of the 3rd parties like Bykski, EK, or Phanteks to put out a full block. Chances are it'll be out faster, and it probably won't end up being much (if any) more expensive than whatever EVGA / MSI put out. EVGA has used the "Hydro Copper" line for the full loop cards, MSI called theirs the "Sea Hawk EK."

That's where I'm at currently. My 2070S has an EK full block. But I'd trust a future 3080 with a factory installed full block more because I'm weird

Taima
Dec 31, 2006




I have to admit that I don't really "get" water cooling. Modern air cooling is really loving good, especially these new cases with the giant dual 200mm fans in the front. I just got one the other day. This poo poo is whisper quiet and super cool. Is water cooling really that much better?

Endymion FRS MK1
Oct 28, 2011



Taima posted:

I have to admit that I don't really "get" water cooling. Modern air cooling is really loving good, especially these new cases with the giant dual 200mm fans in the front. I just got one the other day. This poo poo is whisper quiet and super cool. Is water cooling really that much better?

Probably not. My CPU did just fine with a Dark Rock Pro slapped on it. My GPU was running really hot and I still don't know why (the 1080 that it replaced was whisper quiet) but the G12/H55 combo put it down to mid 50s under load with not much noise. I could've lived with a CPU on air and the GPU under a CLC but I liked the aesthetics of a fully custom loop

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

Taima posted:

I have to admit that I don't really "get" water cooling. Modern air cooling is really loving good, especially these new cases with the giant dual 200mm fans in the front. I just got one the other day. This poo poo is whisper quiet and super cool. Is water cooling really that much better?

Nah its mostly flashy BS. Youtubers and such. Nice Noctua will do you. Comes in handy if you swap parts every 3 days though.

Truga
May 4, 2014




Lipstick Apathy

these days watercooling is kinda whatever yeah. ryzen sees a bit higher boost clocks on very heavy loads, but that's about it. cpus don't see a gigantic improvement with lower temps anymore.

nvidia gpus have bios signed now so you can't really dick around with the cards without doing physical voltmods. the only reason i still have this 980Ti is because it overclocked to 1600mhz on a custom 1.3V bios and then the value just wasn't there with getting a 1080Ti when i was already benching at around non-Ti 1080 and wouldn't be able to overvolt. and then 2000 series had really lovely prices.

so that leaves... radeon 5700 xt? lmao.

however, having poo poo run at 55-56 degrees under load even in this summer heat, and completely silently, feels nice.

Truga fucked around with this message at 01:28 on Aug 1, 2020

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post



"Better" in raw cooling performance, especially in a big case with lots of airflow? No, not really.

But water does have some advantages in various situations that are a big more edge case-ish, but come up more in the enthusiast world. Stuff like its ability to move the heat dissipation away from it's source, which lets you do things like build crazy dense ITX builds or multi GPU setups that would otherwise be thermal throttling. It also lets you move mass out of the socket/card area which can be good for looks, and good for builds that get moved around a lot to reduce stress on the PCB/slots/sockets, and instead move that weight to places that are just bolted to stamped steel.

They also have a higher thermal mass than air coolers, which can be good for "peaky" workloads as they don't heat soak quite as fast for equal dissipation rates. And they are a lot easier to mount/unmount, for jobs that might be testing lots of parts over the course of a day.

But the average user? A good air cooler is as good as a good water cooler for much cheaper. That said, gaming computers are toys. It isn't all about statistical best units per dollar all the time. Sometimes people want poo poo they think looks cool, and thats fine. These are toys, not surgical implements.

Zero VGS
Aug 16, 2002
"It has gunfights and shit!"


Lipstick Apathy

Also worth mentioning that's it's perfectly possible to find an all-in-one water cooler for less money than a heatsink+fan. I've gotten refurb Corsair Hydro coolers under $40 plenty of times and never had one leak. There's times I prefer them, like the Thermaltake Core V1 case already has a 200mm fan intake and you can mount an all-in-one 140mm radiator to that for an incredibly quiet setup. You'd think there wouldn't be enough static pressure but it was overkill in my case for an i7.

Zero VGS fucked around with this message at 01:45 on Aug 1, 2020

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

I'll agree that for an average user who is looking for the best price:performance ratio, water cooling doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Watercooling CPUs is also pretty iffy in a lot of ways, especially if you have the space for a gently caress-off cooler like the D15 (though that cooler is also more expensive than some of the AIOs, sooo...).

Watercooling a GPU, on the other hand, can be pretty great. Yeah, I know modern air coolers work well, and they're nowhere near as loud as they used to be. But I've got an AIO strapped to my 1080Ti and even under heavy load it usually is chilling out in the 50C range, with a fan speed that's around 300-400RPM, making it all but silent. Air coolers are good, but they aren't that good. As a bonus, with the G10/12 mount I've been able to transplant the AIO across three cards so far, meaning I've been able to get the cheaper versions of the cards instead of shelling out the extra cash to get the upper-end models with the actually good air coolers. Not a big deal in the end, but it's something.

And as pointed out, being able to physically remove the heat from the case directly, instead of hoping that your case fans do it, means you can mash high-powered gear into a smaller case. My next build is either going to be something like the NZXT H1, or maybe I'll just buy a Corsair One if they ever bother throwing a TB port on there so I can jam a 10Gb NIC on it--and water cooling makes those a lot more viable.

shrike82
Jun 11, 2005

Get the fuck in your cage and shut the fuck up, you stupid fucking Mexicans. Your voice doesn't fucking matter unless you support OUR rapist.

OBAMA DID NOTHING WRONG


I have a watercooled CPU (3960x on x72) and an aircooled GPU (Titan), and wish I had done it the other way around.
The Wraith Rippers (air cooler) are better than any watercooling solution for Threadrippers.

I'm tempted to go back to a testbench-style open case in the future so I don't have to worry about case, CPU, and GPU thermals interacting with each other.

I spent a year on an open frame with a 1950x and 4x 1080 Tis and in hindsight, was the easiest to manage from a thermals perspective.


(I do ML competitions for fun & money on these machines)

Encrypted
Feb 25, 2016



Watercooling might not be ideal for other parts as there will be very little airflow over the mainboard like the MOSFET and other components unless you also ensure the whole case has decent airflow. But then that's more fans and kinda defeats the purpose of water cooling in general.

Also performance of some watercooling might degrade overtime too due to the liquid degradation etc.

Indiana_Krom
Jun 18, 2007
Net Slacker

Watercooling isn't for everyone, and doesn't get you much on modern CPUs (heat spreaders are a massive thermal bottleneck). But it does work amazingly well on GPUs; my 1080 boosts to 2 GHz forever in any game I play and never breaks 50C. On the rare occasions when one is actually spinning, the mechanical hard disks in my machine are by far the loudest components. And the case has 6 fans running in it with tons of flow you can feel if you put your hands near it, just they never need to break 500 RPM and they are all 140MM fans.

Beyond the sound benefit, its just a fun project.

VelociBacon
Dec 8, 2009



I had a 980ti hybrid and now have a hybrid kit on my 2080ti xc ultra, both EVGA cards, and unless my memory is wrong, the 980ti temps were slow to rise. The 2080ti temps shoot up immediately like a CPU does (they're less than on air and they drop immediately when load ends) and I dunno why this could be.

Cactus
Jun 24, 2006



My 970 ran real hot playing Grounded the other night, to the point my room heated up to an uncomfortable degree even though I had all windows open. I'm assuming it's because that is a really old card and modern games even on default modest settings are now pushing it to its limit. 3080 cant come out soon enough.

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Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!

Truga posted:

these days watercooling is kinda whatever yeah. ryzen sees a bit higher boost clocks on very heavy loads, but that's about it. cpus don't see a gigantic improvement with lower temps anymore.
Higher and longer, at least if you have watercooling with a reservoir, that gives you more heat capacity to sink energy into. Also, I considered a Dark Rock Pro, but I really don't feel to put like 1.3KG on a lever on my mainboard.

Personally, I have a Threadripper, which is a bit harder to cool under load, plus my mainboard doesn't support time constants in the fan controller to smooth out reactions to those dumb Precision Boost temp spikes. The fans in my current loop are controlled based on water temperature. So on peaky loads, the fans don't even spool up noticeably. Nice to keep things silent.

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