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Turbodiesels and Diesels: Economy that existed before the Prius was even a thought. So to start: Whats the difference? TDI: Turbocharged Direct-injection Intercooled The most common American version is the Volkswagen 1.9l/2.0l that comes in the Passat, Golf, and Jetta bodies. The TDI was first available around 1997, although the earlier ECODiesel models were Turbocharged but not Intercooled and the turbos primary purpose was to offset fuel use. Opensourcepirate posted:Edit: You've got the years a little messed up. 1997 to early 99 was the 1Z or AHU engine. 99.5-03 was the ALH. 04-06 was the PD engine. Nothing for 2007 and then the Common Rail 2.0 Liter came out in 08. Thanks Opensource! Originally the TDIs were still using the Bosch Injection Pump to provide timed injections just like the old 1.6/1.5l Non-Turbo Volkswagen motors, with direct injection instead of indirect injection (also known as IDI) TDIs after 2001 were replaced with the CRD (Common Rail Diesel) system where the injectors were triggered electronically and pressure was provided by a high pressure pump driven by the camshaft. The 1Z/AHU block TDI motors from 1997-2001 generated 90 HP stock, the CRD TDIs generated 160HP Stock, simple injector changes and turbo swaps could put you up into the low 200 HP range easily, and with simple chipping you could easily reach 190 HP.  I wish my engine bay was this clean and oil free. You of course also have many many other non Volkswagen diesel in the US: Cummins 5.9 Turbodiesel Ford 6.9 IDI, 7.3 Turbodiesel, some rare 4 cylinder diesels from the 80s that were put into Escorts Chevy LUV Diesel, Chevy Duramax Audi (VW) TDIs, some rare Audi 1.6l Diesel in 4000 series Mercedes Benz 2.4 Litre Diesel and Turbodiesel, and the famed 3.0l Diesel and Turbodiesel VW Toureg V6 and V10 TDI motors, VW Diesel, ECODiesel, and TDI motors for Jetta/Passat/Golf/Rabbit The ill-fated Cadillac Diesels Share your cars, your engines, or diesel tidbits. Locomotive and ship borne diesels are welcome  Soon to be found under the hood of someones Dodge 3500  VW 1.6l NA in an Audi conversion CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 17:32 on Dec 6, 2012 |
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Dec 6, 2012 03:57
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I've had a 1998 Jetta TDI as my primary car since 2005 and I highly approve of this thread. Want to make 300ft-lbs at 2000 RPM and get 40 MPG at 100 MPH? Then get a TDI. Edit: You've got the years a little messed up. 1997 to early 99 was the 1Z or AHU engine. 99.5-03 was the ALH. 04-06 was the PD engine. Nothing for 2007 and then the Common Rail 2.0 Liter came out in 08. There wasn't a big change between the AHU and ALH engines. Rated horsepower stayed the same at 90. Torque went from 145 ft-lbs to 150. The main difference was a change from a turbocharger with a wastegate to one with variable vane geometry, which increased fuel economy to 50+ MPG for people that wanted to cruise down the highway at 1600-2000 RPM in 5th gear. Opensourcepirate fucked around with this message at 05:29 on Dec 6, 2012 |
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Dec 6, 2012 05:19
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My 2003 Sprinter gets around 21-22 mpg (and it's the long/tall version) which literally blows the mind of everyone I ever tell that fact to. I think they ask with the intention of hearing a much lower number... I think the scariest thing on that engine are the $700 injectors (five of them) that start to leak after 300k miles or so, if not taken well care of. My previous engine had that problem and there was lots of coking around the seals. Lame. So I put in a rebuilt engine that cost $6000. Woo. Still, the vehicle runs like a champ, and has an insane amount of power.
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Dec 6, 2012 05:28
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I did a job installing wiring in the ceiling of an elementary school one summer. The machine room had a backup Diesel generator. A 12 Liter 6 cylinder Diesel generator with a pretty massive turbocharger. I was very distracted by it.
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Dec 6, 2012 05:32
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Avoid the Ford (International) 6.0 power stroke like the plague.
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Dec 6, 2012 06:20
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 My diesel bitch. 37mpg while cruising at 85mph is pretty sweet. BlackMK4 fucked around with this message at 10:36 on Dec 6, 2012 |
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Dec 6, 2012 10:31
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Love my TDI - 2000 VW Golf averages 48mpg when I drive nice, 43mpg if I'm playing in the mountains. Tows a trailer for the motorcycles with no complaints. Rolled over 220k last week. Bought it with 81k and haven't had any trouble with it.
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Dec 6, 2012 14:38
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Good thread, I'm a diesel nerd and I just recently got an AHU to put in my Scirocco. I used to have a 99 Beetle TDI that I had done some stuff to like PP520s, VNT17 and a Rocketchip 3 among other things and I loved it. I drove it with my foot to the floor most of the time and still got 39 and could get 53 on the highway when I wanted to. Just got a ALH 11mm pump for the AHU and I plan on getting GT2052 for it. I haven't decided on nozzles and stuff yet because I want to see a few more dyno runs from my friends with similar setups. Right now I'm collecting the parts to rebuild the engine except for the pistons since I need to measure the bores first to see if I'll need over sized ones.
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Dec 6, 2012 17:14
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BlackMK4 posted:
Is that the 335D? Every now and then I see one or two of them. I'm seeing more and more VW TDIs on the road these days, seems like they are finally starting to catch. Billy Tully posted:Good thread, I'm a diesel nerd and I just recently got an AHU to put in my Scirocco. I used to have a 99 Beetle TDI that I had done some stuff to like PP520s, VNT17 and a Rocketchip 3 among other things and I loved it. I drove it with my foot to the floor most of the time and still got 39 and could get 53 on the highway when I wanted to. I really would love to do the ALH pump and do a VNT-15 conversion on my 98 TDI, my head just got finished today and I'm preparing to go pick it up. They had to weld up a valve guide boss and put an oversized valve guide on my intake valve for the #2 cylinder. French Canadian posted:My 2003 Sprinter gets around 21-22 mpg (and it's the long/tall version) which literally blows the mind of everyone I ever tell that fact to. I think they ask with the intention of hearing a much lower number... Yeah, CRDs are awesome, but the cost of parts is night and day between older diesels. Its dirt cheap to do parts for a VW AHU, but the Common Rail injectors and parts are up there. DrPain posted:Avoid the Ford (International) 6.0 power stroke like the plague. Isn't that the one that liked leaking diesel into the oil via bad injector seals? CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Dec 6, 2012 |
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Dec 6, 2012 17:33
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My work-van, VW Transporter 2008, got the 5 cylinder tdi, and, its been the most reliable thing i have ever driven, it just rolled over 200k miles And since day one, it have hauled steel and welding equipment in the field, and not a single breakdown. I got an ECU tune for it 2010, and after that, the thing is weirdly quick for being a fully loaded van, and, the 25 mpg i get are not bad either.
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Dec 6, 2012 18:46
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Dec 6, 2012 18:58
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CommieGIR posted:I'm seeing more and more VW TDIs on the road these days, seems like they are finally starting to catch. About drat time. I thought I read that 1/5th of Volkswagen's sold this year were TDI.
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Dec 6, 2012 19:09
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CommieGIR posted:Isn't that the one that liked leaking diesel into the oil via bad injector seals? It's the one with a lovely EGR cooler and oil cooler design that likes to grenade every 50k or so miles, which leads to a whole host of other problems. Ford treated the problem by replacing it with new OEM, basically punting the problem another 50k down the road. Aftermarket kits exist to fix the design flaws, but they're prohibitively expensive and require major engine surgery to install. There were a bunch of lawsuits that came out of the whole fiasco. Avoid, avoid, avoid. The newer 6.7 power stroke is a good motor, but lots of people still avoid them on principle. DrPain fucked around with this message at 19:13 on Dec 6, 2012 |
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Dec 6, 2012 19:11
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DrPain posted:It's the one with a lovely EGR cooler and oil cooler design that likes to grenade every 50k or so miles, which leads to a whole host of other problems. Ford treated the problem by replacing it with new OEM, basically punting the problem another 50k down the road. Aftermarket kits exist to fix the design flaws, but they're prohibitively expensive and require major engine surgery to install. There were a bunch of lawsuits that came out of the whole fiasco. I think that is why Dodge really took the right step in just using Cummins in their trucks, saved a big headache from another in house developed engine. But it seems Duramax has also managed to get over the teething issues the GM 6.2 and 6.5 motors had as well.
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Dec 6, 2012 19:50
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CommieGIR posted:I think that is why Dodge really took the right step in just using Cummins in their trucks, saved a big headache from another in house developed engine. the 6.0 and 6.4 were developed by navistar. the ford 6.7 is developed in house and is one of the best modern diesels available. the 6.2 and 6.5 were developed by detroit, and the 6.6 duramax is developed by isuzu. Edit: cummins is currently having a ton of trouble with their highway truck engines, if that trickles down into the next generation of 1 ton cummins, dodge could be as hosed as ford was with the navistar garbage. Ford sued navistar for providing garbage engines, navistar conter-sued ford for developing their own diesel engines(which ended up in some land rover somewhere) Powershift fucked around with this message at 21:03 on Dec 6, 2012 |
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Dec 6, 2012 20:57
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The head for my AHU, fresh from the machine shop. 
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Dec 6, 2012 21:22
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Nice! Did you get any porting done?
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Dec 6, 2012 22:06
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Billy Tully posted:Nice! Did you get any porting done? No, mostly just valve seats and guides. The #2 valve guide was GONE, it slid RIGHT out when I took off the retainers. But this head has 280k on it 
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Dec 6, 2012 22:09
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I drive one of these: I've had it since it was a year old, and put over 120,000 miles on it. Best car I've ever had. It has the same engine as the Golf TDI (1.9l 130hp), but it's 10% shorter and 10% lighter. Lots of fun, until you realise (usually half way round a corner) that while the brakes and wheels are upgrades on the base model Fabia, the suspension really isn't.
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Dec 6, 2012 22:19
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http://www.allpar.com/mopar/V6/VM-RA-diesel.html This engine will be joining the party soon in the Ram 1500 and the 2014 Grand Cherokee. A Wrangler equipped with it and the six speed manual would be a fun little ride. Assuming that its introduction is successful, how likely would it would be for the mill to be offered in their other less utilitarian large cars?
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Dec 6, 2012 22:26
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Tekne posted:http://www.allpar.com/mopar/V6/VM-RA-diesel.html This engine will be joining the party soon in the Ram 1500 and the 2014 Grand Cherokee. A Wrangler equipped with it and the six speed manual would be a fun little ride. Assuming that its introduction is successful, how likely would it would be for the mill to be offered in their other less utilitarian large cars? Supposedly Chevrolet is preparing to bring a turbodiesel sedan to the US in the next year or two.
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Dec 6, 2012 23:17
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Wolfsbane posted:I drive one of these: For your viewing pleasure, a slightly tuned TDI Fabia https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UORwvYNXnB8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRR9BSbUxtY MonkeyNutZ fucked around with this message at 00:17 on Dec 7, 2012 |
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Dec 6, 2012 23:29
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CommieGIR posted:No, mostly just valve seats and guides. The #2 valve guide was GONE, it slid RIGHT out when I took off the retainers. Great, mine has 287k on it so I cant wait to see what it looks like inside  It ran like a top but smoked like a train. Thats the first time I've even heard of a valve guide sliding out.
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Dec 6, 2012 23:33
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BlackMK4 posted:
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Dec 6, 2012 23:34
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Billy Tully posted:Great, mine has 287k on it so I cant wait to see what it looks like inside How is your oil usage?
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Dec 6, 2012 23:37
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CommieGIR posted:How is your oil usage? I bought it as a parts car and pulled the engine and stuff out pretty much right away so I'm not sure.
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Dec 6, 2012 23:39
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Billy Tully posted:I bought it as a parts car and pulled the engine and stuff out pretty much right away so I'm not sure. Might as well get the head rebuilt, its pretty cheap especially if you buy the new parts yourself before going to the machine shop. Mine, with new valves, guides, seals, lifters, etc. only cost me $300. Go ahead and take a look at your connecting rod bearings as well, chances are they are fine, but can't hurt.
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Dec 6, 2012 23:41
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Oh the whole thing is getting rebuilt from top to bottom. I already have the bearings and gaskets and a machine shop all lined up.
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Dec 6, 2012 23:44
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Wolfsbane posted:I drive one of these: I drive a 170 CR TDI in a Seat Leon now which has been to the garage 11 times under warranty. Thanks Seat. 
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Dec 6, 2012 23:48
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Atomic Mitten posted:Awwww yes, I had this too (in the fetching red shown). My wife loved mine so much, we got a second in Silver. Both did 120k, between the two cars the only things to go wrong were one brake switch and one turbo. Cheapest car I'll probably ever run, I think the PD130 was perfect for this car - the 150 has a few troubling faults and the lower ones just were not enough fun - great first car. Sucks you've had so much trouble with it cause thats an awesome looking car and we dont get the 170hp over here. We have to steal your Euro parts and make them.
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Dec 6, 2012 23:56
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Billy Tully posted:Sucks you've had so much trouble with it cause thats an awesome looking car and we dont get the 170hp over here. We have to steal your Euro parts and make them. I've bought more than a few Euro spec OEM parts, makes the TDI much more fun.
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Dec 7, 2012 00:03
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CommieGIR posted:I've bought more than a few Euro spec OEM parts, makes the TDI much more fun. Hah, yea, I've been checking tdiclub and vortex every day for a PD150 intake that comes out the left side of the engine and for the PD guys the 150 injectors are a nice upgrade.
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Dec 7, 2012 00:20
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I have a weird question. On most gasoline vehicles, I have to think twice or so over anything over ~150K, and normally it's due to my worrying about the transmissions. I regularly hear about Diesels that run 300K+ without much trouble. I can understand the engine, but what about the transmissions? Are trannys used in Diesel vehicles just over-built to compensate for the increased torque diesels offer? Or is my entire line of thinking way off base? Thanks for educating me, would help me in my quest to get my wife warmed up to the idea of a diesel.
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Dec 7, 2012 00:36
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Dradien posted:I have a weird question. On most gasoline vehicles, I have to think twice or so over anything over ~150K, and normally it's due to my worrying about the transmissions. Most diesel transmissions are built to handle the heavier torque that the engine will put out, but if its a manual, most manual transmissions gas or diesel will last as long as they are shifted properly and oil is kept in them at the proper level. If you are going diesel go manual or some sort of manual transmission
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Dec 7, 2012 00:40
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SwashedBuckles posted:Awesome car! I had one of those as a loaner a few years back. I liked it better than the 335i, but couldn't you only get them with a Tiptronic transmission? Yeah, but I have a Triumph 675 for when I want to hit the canyons or do a trackday.  It's got a JBD tuner on it and is enough to surprise people and have fun with a full car.
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Dec 7, 2012 01:44
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Does any one have/have experience with the VW Golf GTD? I've got a MkV GTI at the moment and love it, but I'm starting to get ready to upgrade to something a bit newer, have been thinking the GTD might be a nice move sideways into diesel.
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Dec 7, 2012 04:49
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BurgerQuest posted:Does any one have/have experience with the VW Golf GTD? I've got a MkV GTI at the moment and love it, but I'm starting to get ready to upgrade to something a bit newer, have been thinking the GTD might be a nice move sideways into diesel. I don't have experience with the Golf GTD, but its the same 2.0l TDI engine from the Jetta, and if they put the 6 speed manual in the Golf as well as they did the Jetta, it'll be well worth it. As far as I can tell, they are also giving the Golf a 10 HP boost (170HP), so it'll be even more sporty.
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Dec 7, 2012 16:02
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Very long time lurker at SA, and being in the market to get myself a TDI this coming summer, figured I would take the plunge and post in this thread, with some requests for advice! If I am looking to get a TDI Golf (ideal) or Jetta in the $6000-$8000 range, approximately what sorts of mileage should I look for to find a good deal? Any suggestions for best venues to get a deal on diesel in the US? Additionally, have heard claims that automatic transmissions are better for mileage on a TDI, because the additional heat output from the transmission is a more certain mileage improver than shifting carefully in a manual. Thoughts on this? Also, someone mentioned using a Golf for towing motorcycles; any TDI Jetta folks with positive towing experiences? Assuming this car eventually does get purchased, perhaps a thread will be created about the long drive (am leaning towards purchasing in North Carolina, due to lower costs and rust-free cars from no winters, to get up north to Ohio). Possibly even with photos. Yes/no?
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Dec 7, 2012 18:52
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BurgerQuest posted:Does any one have/have experience with the VW Golf GTD? I've got a MkV GTI at the moment and love it, but I'm starting to get ready to upgrade to something a bit newer, have been thinking the GTD might be a nice move sideways into diesel. The GTD is basically just a GTI with the diesel engine. We can't get it here in the US which sucks rear end. I'd love the extra hp over mine.
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Dec 7, 2012 19:27
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Atomic Mitten posted:Awwww yes, I had this too (in the fetching red shown). My wife loved mine so much, we got a second in Silver. Both did 120k, between the two cars the only things to go wrong were one brake switch and one turbo. Cheapest car I'll probably ever run, I think the PD130 was perfect for this car - the 150 has a few troubling faults and the lower ones just were not enough fun - great first car. The turbo went on mine too, but luckily it was still under warranty. It's got a few electrical problems now and the doors are starting to seize up, but the engine has been indestructible. My wife wants one of the blue special editions, but I don't think they're ever going to come down in price. Personally I'd rather have the TDI Yeti.
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Dec 7, 2012 20:36
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