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Crumbletron
Jul 21, 2006



IT'S YOUR BOY JESUS, MANE


Vichan posted:

Loved the show as well, absolutely loathed the ending.

Was the ending bad or just upsetting? I've been meaning to watch it.

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Vichan
Oct 1, 2014

I'LL PUNISH YOU ACCORDING TO YOUR CRIME

Crumbletron posted:

Was the ending bad or just upsetting? I've been meaning to watch it.

Without going into spoilers I felt it was a bit of a cop out considering everything that led up to it.

Just my opinion though, I can perfectly understand if other people had no issues with it.

EDIT: Hard recommend besides that, don't get me wrong.

General Battuta
Feb 7, 2011

This is how you communicate with a fellow intelligence: you hurt it, you keep on hurting it, until you can distinguish the posts from the screams.

Prez out there in space messing it up

codo27
Apr 21, 2008



So, I'm assuming those who were in the Sopranos thread saying this was its equal were doing it out of some ongoing prank where you get tricked into watching this and then have to beset someone else with the same curse?

Okay, thats going too far, but its honestly not even close to the Sopranos. S5 was a complete waste, the newspaper stuff might have worked if it had been worked in from the beginning or at least some season other than the shortened finale. The initial slew of characters were all so well developed and thought out, later ones (Like Marlo and his crew) were just bare. I feel like you must be in an alternate universe reading the praise for S2 on the last page. And 4 being the best? Come on.

Not even gonna touch the serial killer stuff. Between that and Omar supermanning out the window, apparently breaking only his leg but just walking it off after a day only to wind up meeting his end as he did, man does this last season ever leave a bad taste in my mouth. And in one sense I get it, thats the game, ain't no happy endings in this poo poo. All throughout I appreciated how gritty and raw and unpleasant a lot of the street stuff was, that felt authentic. Its not like I expected gift wrapped happy endings across the board, but a whole lot better than what we got. Namonds on the debate team but Duquan is a junkie now? Certainly the white guys present in the big bust were part of the Greek's organization, why would they suddenly be willing to deal with whats left after, when they were so close to the chest before?

Most of my frustration is at the final two seasons, especially 5. And maybe its not a great time to have watched the show. The whole world has been getting progressively worse for the last 5 years, I dont need another harsh dose of reality. Haha!, the bullshit writer wins his prize, but Daniels (they never do say exactly whats in that file precisely do they?) has to resign? The Polak is the new comissioner? Carccetti forced to deal with Davis, who also comes away scot free? Levy suffers no consequences from his leak incriminating him, and Marlo is just instantly up in the high rises suited up dealing with the big shots after being allowed to walk on the charges?

Reactionary post, I apologize. I was just expecting so much more this whole time.

Nail Rat
Dec 29, 2000

Haters gonna hate


codo27 posted:

Omar supermanning out the window, apparently breaking only his leg but just walking it off after a day only to wind up meeting his end as he did

As an FYI, this happened for real with the dude who was the inspiration for Omar. Except the window was higher.

Sometimes you just get lucky, until you don't.

General Battuta
Feb 7, 2011

This is how you communicate with a fellow intelligence: you hurt it, you keep on hurting it, until you can distinguish the posts from the screams.

It's not as good as Sopranos.

It's so much better you can't even compare the two

e: Sopranos is a great show about a guy's psychology, with great characters stuck in an endless cycle of keeping each other lovely. The Wire is an exploration of an entire city and the collapse of America. They're both great TV but the Wire is just something else.

General Battuta
Feb 7, 2011

This is how you communicate with a fellow intelligence: you hurt it, you keep on hurting it, until you can distinguish the posts from the screams.

If your criticism of The Wire is "there aren't as many happy endings as I wanted" then, well, man, I dunno.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?



As always, Prez might be a gently caress-up on first viewing but in the end there is a lot that can be learned from observation

Happy Thread
Jul 9, 2005


Plaster Town Cop

I am so happy that the criticisms turned out to be "crazy story from real life that had to be toned down some for believability was unbelievable", "I can't remember what was in Daniels' file from earlier seasons", "I can't remember how much S2 scenes actually contributed to the final result" and "I can't believe the show portrayed the world as a place where sociopaths fail upward until controlling society and therefore never face accountability" and "I can't believe the show was honest about what befalls most innocent poor people"

Happy Thread
Jul 9, 2005


Plaster Town Cop

Like this show's goal is to educate and maturize the viewer about stuff they don't see every day, not to be some popcorn marvel superhero tale that you have on in the background, made by writers who are comfortably more stupid than the audience with nothing to say

StashAugustine
Mar 24, 2013

Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.









The most unbelievable thing about the serial killer plot was that it wasn't just a ploy to get more overtime from the get-go

Mr. Prokosch
Feb 14, 2012

Behold My Magnificence!


Now that you've watched the Wire, here's what you should do:

1. Watch the Sopranos again
2. Watch the Wire again
3. Think about them both and what they're saying as works of art and social commentary
4. Check if you still think Sopranos is better

My ranking of seasons:
4
1
2
3
5
All other television

I think people don't give 1 enough credit for establishing everything, including themes that are explored much later. Season 5 has some real issues that stem from David Simon having a self-insert and being too close to the newspaper world and having too many grudges without someone to check him.

I recently watched Patriot and it was pretty great. I'd say it's better than the Sopranos, but still doesn't come close to the Wire.

StashAugustine
Mar 24, 2013

Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.









Also should be acknowledged that "this is effective at getting across a message which I'm not in an emotional state to hear" can be true and good and also not a criticism of the work

Happy Thread
Jul 9, 2005


Plaster Town Cop

Yeah, re watch the show, you'll enjoy it surprisingly a lot from reminiscing on where the show started. And some of those complaints fall away on second watch due to not missing details that you know will be significant later. Attention to detail in this show is unmatched. The characters and events are so well portrayed that re-watching remains enjoyable no matter if you know what will happen.

One caveat--there are certain people for whom certain messages of this show will be lost on no matter what. If you're some professional who believes they have won the meritocracy, deserve to be a manager because of it, and that managers generally can solve the world's problems, then your salary basically pays you not to understand this show. For example, season 4 will never land correctly if the viewer is someone like that state administrator who barked back "the system works" and then ended the meeting upon hearing the implication that the meritocracy doesn't work and the institutions are failing. Entertaining the thesis of season 4 would have invalidated her entire career, and she has grown up in such comfort and privilege that she avoided ever maturing into any adult form required to process a world that doesn't work so cleanly, so she won't.

Happy Thread fucked around with this message at 22:27 on Feb 23, 2021

Happy Thread
Jul 9, 2005


Plaster Town Cop

Also I just realized that when the thin-skinned David Simon melted down and blocked me on Twitter, it was when I had implied that he wasn't be true to the message of his own show.....according to season 4's thesis. The significance only now has occurred to me that David had ceded control during season 4 and that Ed Burns was mainly telling the story at that point. It's clearly not the same message Simon would have put in, and perhaps I triggered some more resentment by getting the two mixed up.

ruddiger
Jun 3, 2004



Thanks for reminding me that Sopranos was really hackneyed when it came to portraying black people

Open Source Idiom
Jan 4, 2013


Mr. Prokosch posted:

My ranking of seasons:
4
1
2
3
5
All other television

I'd put The Deuce season 2 above The Wire season 5.

Barry Foster
Dec 24, 2007

Brush your teeth.


General Battuta posted:

It's not as good as Sopranos.

It's so much better you can't even compare the two

e: Sopranos is a great show about a guy's psychology, with great characters stuck in an endless cycle of keeping each other lovely. The Wire is an exploration of an entire city and the collapse of America. They're both great TV but the Wire is just something else.

de verdad

Beamed
Nov 26, 2010

Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.




General Battuta posted:

It's not as good as Sopranos.

It's so much better you can't even compare the two

e: Sopranos is a great show about a guy's psychology, with great characters stuck in an endless cycle of keeping each other lovely. The Wire is an exploration of an entire city and the collapse of America. They're both great TV but the Wire is just something else.

Gargamel Gibson
Apr 24, 2014


codo27 posted:

bullshit writer wins his prize, but Daniels (they never do say exactly whats in that file precisely do they?) has to resign? The Polak is the new comissioner? Carccetti forced to deal with Davis, who also comes away scot free? Levy suffers no consequences from his leak incriminating him, and Marlo is just instantly up in the high rises suited up dealing with the big shots after being allowed to walk on the charges?

:o The king stays the king? It's almost like the game is rigged! What a bad show.

Vichan
Oct 1, 2014

I'LL PUNISH YOU ACCORDING TO YOUR CRIME

Gargamel Gibson posted:

:o The king stays the king? It's almost like the game is rigged! What a bad show.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWmryAVUoL8

There's always the musical. (Spoilers)

Barry Foster
Dec 24, 2007

Brush your teeth.


Vichan posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWmryAVUoL8

There's always the musical. (Spoilers)

How have I not seen this til now?!

Ainsley McTree
Feb 19, 2004




Happy Thread posted:

Also I just realized that when the thin-skinned David Simon melted down and blocked me on Twitter, it was when I had implied that he wasn't be true to the message of his own show.....according to season 4's thesis. The significance only now has occurred to me that David had ceded control during season 4 and that Ed Burns was mainly telling the story at that point. It's clearly not the same message Simon would have put in, and perhaps I triggered some more resentment by getting the two mixed up.

David Simon's twitter makes me regularly forget that he's the guy who wrote the wire (and homicide, and the corner, and loads of other great stuff). His vocabulary on there is....really annoying

th3t00t
Aug 14, 2007
my quarterback hates completions

2, 4, 1, 3, 5. Updated rankings on my 4th watch.

1st time through my ranking was 4 ,3, 1, 2, 5.

Like many in this thread, season 2 has grown on me. The major shift in focus was jarring, and all 3 Sobotka's come across rather unsympathetic on first viewing, but are extremely likeable and sympathetic on re-watches.

I also really enjoy "The Greek's" gang and getting to see the international cartel at work in a tier above Avon and the other Baltimore king pins.

The parallel drawn between Bubbs and The Greek being allowed to continue their illegal activity because of their roles as informants is brutal.

Bubbs and Johnny stealing from an "ambo", and getting away with it because of their relationship with McNutty and Greggs.

The FBI allowing The Greek to import metric tons of Heroin, Women and whatever else because he's willing to inform on other cartel's like the Columbians that tried to gently caress him on an already agreed upon price for cocaine.

Small time criminals being assisted by small time, city cops, international drug cartels being assisted by the FBI. It also really hammers home how corrupt and pointless the drug war is.

zenguitarman
Apr 6, 2009

Come on, lemme see ya shake your tail feather




Rank your Sobotkas

Frank
Ziggy
Nick's Dad
Nick
Nick's Mom

th3t00t
Aug 14, 2007
my quarterback hates completions

zenguitarman posted:

Rank your Sobotkas

Nickís girlfriends boobs
Frank
Ziggy
Nick's Dad
Nick
Nick's Mom
Fixed.

Syrian Lannister
Aug 25, 2007

Oh, did I kill him too?
I've been a very busy little man.




Sugartime Jones


Lol

Hoping she was going to be added in the poll

E. I still can't get into Ziggy

Ainsley McTree
Feb 19, 2004




Syrian Lannister posted:

Lol

Hoping she was going to be added in the poll

E. I still can't get into Ziggy

He definitely doesn't make it easy. I fuckin hated him on my first watch of the series--burning the money in the bar and killing the duck were a bit too far for me. I still can't say I like him, but upon a rewatch, I kind of get him, which is as much as I think he can ask from me.

If you haven't already seen it, it's worth watching Generation Kill; for a lot of reasons, but among them that Ziggy's actor is in it as a much more likeable character, almost a glimpse into the alternate universe where everyone realize he's never going to follow in his father's footsteps and joins the marines instead. Still not a great life for him I guess but at least he tries

Hasselblad
Dec 13, 2017
NRA shill who thinks homeless people would love to live in migrant border camps. Help me realize I am a bigoted piece of shit.


codo27 posted:

but Daniels (they never do say exactly whats in that file precisely do they?)

I have to admit, at this point I get his dirty laundry mixed up with his almost identical characterís laundry in Bosch. By the way, when is the next season?

Bird in a Blender
Nov 17, 2005

It's amazing what they can do with computers these days.


Iíve seen The Wire three times, but Iím in the middle of watching The Sopranos for the first time and I actually have a hard time believing that people rank The Sopranos over The Wire. Now I havenít finished it yet, so Iíll reserve further judgement until I see it all, but the wire just has so much more going on, and way more interesting characters than the Sopranos does so far.

Barry Foster
Dec 24, 2007

Brush your teeth.


Early Sopranos is pretty much the prototype of 'premium' TV and definitely feels/is a bit dated. The really strong stuff comes later. It is really good, but yeah, for my money The Wire beats it hands down.

General consensus is that The Sopranos is a character piece while The Wire is a more synoptic essay on capitalism and its decay.

Edit oh also The Sopranos is very, very funny. It's funnier than a lot of comedies, frankly

General Battuta
Feb 7, 2011

This is how you communicate with a fellow intelligence: you hurt it, you keep on hurting it, until you can distinguish the posts from the screams.

The Sopranos gets better the less stuff happens. The early episodes have ďplotsĒ and ďincidentsĒ but later in the show they realize they can just let the characters bounce off each other making bad decisions.

I guess thereís still a plot but itís much more emergent from the buildup of grudges and the breakdown of relationships than from outside contrivance.

christmas boots
Oct 15, 2012

To these sing-alongs of siren songs
To oohs to ahhs to big applause
With all of my anger I scream and shout
America, I love you but you're freaking me out


Biscuit Hider

It's almost a bit silly to even compare them directly. They're both hour-long HBO dramas but they're just built very differently to tell two very different types of stories. Comparing The Sopranos to The Shield would be easier, I think.

Syrian Lannister
Aug 25, 2007

Oh, did I kill him too?
I've been a very busy little man.




Sugartime Jones

Hasselblad posted:

I have to admit, at this point I get his dirty laundry mixed up with his almost identical characterís laundry in Bosch. By the way, when is the next season?

Season 7, which is the final season on Prime drops sometime during the summer.

On related, IMDB.tv is picking up the spin-off with Honey 'Money' and Bosch

https://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/bosch-final-season-coming-to-amazon-harry-honey-spin-off-set-for-imdb-tv/

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS


Does Bosch get better as it goes on? I watched one season awhile ago and it was like, okay, but pretty formulaic. Maybe I'm just jaded now but yet another brooding detective who the bosses have it out for is like, not working for me by itself. I enjoyed seeing jamie hector and lance reddick but I dunno, I didn't quite get the pull of the show.

Ainsley McTree
Feb 19, 2004




Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:

Does Bosch get better as it goes on? I watched one season awhile ago and it was like, okay, but pretty formulaic. Maybe I'm just jaded now but yet another brooding detective who the bosses have it out for is like, not working for me by itself. I enjoyed seeing jamie hector and lance reddick but I dunno, I didn't quite get the pull of the show.

This was my experience too, yeah; I think I watched the first two episodes and thought it was fine, but didn't really get grabbed enough to keep going. Is it one of those shoes you have to stick with for a while before it gets going, or is it just not for me, maybe?

I also started watching it right around the time all the anti-brutality protests started happening, and opening the show with "ah, it may have looked like this cop shot an unarmed man, but actually," was simply the worst way to get me to want to keep going at that time

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


I think another parallel between The Sopranos and The Wire is that it is obvious the cast and crew realized they were part of something special, and it elevated all of their performances as a result. They felt invested in what they were a part of, and rose above and beyond their normal limitations to give everything they had. Sopranos is full of actors who might be considered limited or easily typecast in particular minor supporting roles anywhere else, but on their show they felt like something special. Similarly on The Wire, where everybody was just giving their all to the point that they introduced 4 kids as main cast members in their fourth season and they ALL were fantastic in their parts, which is unheard of. It's rare enough to find one talented and believable child actor in a show, but not only are all four really drat good, there is a large cast of supporting child actors that also more than hold up their end of the deal as well. And a big part of that is because they were part of a show where everybody knew they had something special and were doing everything they could to keep it going.

Ainsley McTree
Feb 19, 2004




And they're both created by guys named David

awesmoe
Nov 30, 2005



Pillbug

they both start with "the"
e: and both would be very different shows without the "the"! like, sopranos would be a show about singers, and wire would be a show about wire.

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General Battuta
Feb 7, 2011

This is how you communicate with a fellow intelligence: you hurt it, you keep on hurting it, until you can distinguish the posts from the screams.

Wire is the 2 hour action movie reboot about Omar's path of revenge and the cops who try to help him.

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