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Mahlertov Cocktail
Mar 1, 2010

I ate your Mahler avatar! Hahahaha!

Ah, thanks a lot! :)

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chami
Mar 28, 2011

Keep it classy, boys~


Fun Shoe

Climbing goal for 2015? Learn lead and actually climb and boulder outside for the first time. I'm not too far from Carderock and Great Falls so there are at least some outdoor opportunities here.

spwrozek
Sep 4, 2006

Sail when it's windy



My goal for next year is clean 5.11a. I need to get a list of routes together. I would like to finish OG which is V4 (so close Saturday...). I would like to get on the brown palace (6 pitch 11a). I want to finally go to shelf road. Maybe a trip to ouray and possibly meet up with old friends at the red.

Bilirubin
Feb 16, 2014

The sanctioned action is to CHUG!!!




Bleak Gremlin

I should start sport climbing again this year.

Pros: fitness, now living near the Rockys
Cons: old, no longer immortal/indestructable

jackchaos
Aug 6, 2008


Bilirubin posted:

I should start sport climbing again this year.

Pros: fitness, now living near the Rockys
Cons: old, no longer immortal/indestructable

no excuse
http://www.climbing.com/video/video-61-year-old-francisco-novato-marin-projects-5-14b/

Endjinneer
Aug 17, 2005


Fallen Rib

Save me jeebus posted:

Incidentally, I demo'd some Tenaya Tarifas a few weeks ago and will probably pick up a pair to backup my Miuras. I'm interested to hear how your Tatankas break in.

So the tatankas have stretched out maybe 3-4mm in length. I can now climb maybe 2 or 3 pitches between having to take them off but boy, do they edge well. I'm going to keep my red chilli habaneros for mountain roots and foot jams, but the tatankas are the most aggressive boot I've ever owned and I like them.

Some friends and I, in a frenzy the other night booked flights and digs in Tafraout for over new year. Excited!

ndrz
Oct 31, 2003



I'm pretty new to climbing (about a month and a half), and have just been bouldering so far. I've got decent upper body / core strength, and I'm starting to finish most v2s and some v3s at my gym. I've been increasing my finger strength with some resistance putty, and have successfully been able to do a pullup on my doorframe.

I started looking into hangboards (I wanted more room for my fingers than just the doorframe), and then came across the fact that these shouldn't even be used until you've been climbing for two years. That seems like a really long time to wait - is there some other benchmark I can use to know whether or not I'm going to gently caress up my fingers by using a hangboard?

Edit: If it matters, I'm 5'9" 145lbs and can do sets of ~20 pullups from full extension with zero momentum

ndrz fucked around with this message at 18:41 on Dec 9, 2014

deck
Jul 13, 2006



There's no real rules here. Only you can know if you're overdoing it, and you might not realize it until something pops. Go for it if you think you can be reasonable about it.

My worthless internet stranger advice is that you're on a good trajectory, and you should just keep trying hard routes at the gym, and perhaps add some hangboard sets (at the gym) if the routes aren't giving you the finger workout you want. This also saves you from having to buy and put one up at home, where you'll be tempted to use it too often, and only doing it at the gym helps ensure you're getting plenty of recovery time.

armorer
Aug 6, 2012

I like metal.

coldfire07 posted:

I'm pretty new to climbing (about a month and a half), and have just been bouldering so far. I've got decent upper body / core strength, and I'm starting to finish most v2s and some v3s at my gym. I've been increasing my finger strength with some resistance putty, and have successfully been able to do a pullup on my doorframe.

I started looking into hangboards (I wanted more room for my fingers than just the doorframe), and then came across the fact that these shouldn't even be used until you've been climbing for two years. That seems like a really long time to wait - is there some other benchmark I can use to know whether or not I'm going to gently caress up my fingers by using a hangboard?

Edit: If it matters, I'm 5'9" 145lbs and can do sets of ~20 pullups from full extension with zero momentum

I think the general "rules" around fingerboard use are reasonable. If you are just pushing into V3, the time that you would spend on the fingerboard would be more effectively spent doing more gym climbing. Most of the boulderers that I know who work fingerboard sessions into their normal routine are climbing ~V7, and still only really do it when they can't get to the gym for some reason, or when they end a gym session and feel like they have something left to burn up. If I were you, I would put it off and just try to get to the gym more (don't know how often you climb now).

You mention pullups a few times, and I want to point out that while hang boards can be used for pullups, they are really best suited to static hangs. The warnings that folks give about hang boards are because you can really mess up your finger tendons if you overdo it. If you decide to get a fingerboard anyway, find some beginner routines on youtube and do those for a while. Don't jump into anything intermediate or advanced. It is really easy to mess up your tendons, and tendon injury will set you back months.

jackchaos
Aug 6, 2008


The fact that it actually said that somewhere is somewhat laughable. Hang boards are great/original training system for climbing, other then climbing. You can see gains in as little as 3 weeks of consistent use. That being said you need to know how to use it in a way that you will see gains and not injure yourself. My advice is look up different hang workouts. Download hang timer from whatever app thing and focus on largest grips at maximum weight until your work out gets to easy then start making your way down the board. Open hand, open hand, open hand everything. On pull ups. The actual action of doing pull ups in repetition is benign for climbing. The way they can be beneficial is by adding weight! Weighted pull ups are a fairly easy way to boost pull strength. My last comment is about core. As a general statement core is everything. So work that poo poo out!

jackchaos
Aug 6, 2008


deck posted:

There's no real rules here. Only you can know if you're overdoing it, and you might not realize it until something pops.

I'd like to over emphasize this. There are no set in stone standards. What works for you may not work for others. This really applies to climbing! Probably why people love bouldering so much! It's the problem solving!

spwrozek
Sep 4, 2006

Sail when it's windy



I have a hang board and never use it. It is in my basement next to my trx. I use the trx all the time for core though. Then just go climb. You are going to benefit a lot more from actual climbing to improve technique, footwork, strength, and route or problem reading.

Bread Set Jettison
Jan 8, 2009



So a while back I tried to get back into climbing and within 2 months I hosed up a finger. I dont remember exactly what it was but I remember it being a pulley (which I had no idea where in my fingers). I rested till it was fixed and then just kind of stopped climbing. I'm now again trying to redo climbing, so are there any good stretches to avoid this injury?

armorer
Aug 6, 2012

I like metal.

Bread Set Jettison posted:

So a while back I tried to get back into climbing and within 2 months I hosed up a finger. I dont remember exactly what it was but I remember it being a pulley (which I had no idea where in my fingers). I rested till it was fixed and then just kind of stopped climbing. I'm now again trying to redo climbing, so are there any good stretches to avoid this injury?

I don't know of any stretches, but the general advice I've always heard (and follow) is: Warm up properly before getting on anything serious, make sure to stay well hydrated, and use an open hand crimp rather than a full crimp whenever possible.

There are ways to tape your fingers to provide additional support for the pulleys, but I haven't tried any of them personally. There is a lot of useful information online about pulley tendon injuries if you google a bit.

Papercut
Aug 24, 2005

The quickest substitution in the history of the NBA

Bread Set Jettison posted:

So a while back I tried to get back into climbing and within 2 months I hosed up a finger. I dont remember exactly what it was but I remember it being a pulley (which I had no idea where in my fingers). I rested till it was fixed and then just kind of stopped climbing. I'm now again trying to redo climbing, so are there any good stretches to avoid this injury?

Your pulleys are tendons, which seem to be unaffected by static stretching; tendons respond to dynamic stretching and eccentric activities. This is why people will typically recommend warming up with plenty of easy climbs before jumping into your projects. Away from the gym, you can get a putty ball to squeeze and use a rubber band around your fingers for eccentric motions.

canis minor
May 4, 2011



I've noticed for some time that I've got problems with leg reach (if that makes sense) - actually I've never been able to do the splits, but the route I've got problems with requires lifting ones leg to the height of ones chest (like, forward swing but higher). My friend recommended me yoga, though I was wondering if there're any climbing exercises that would help me with this, or is what I need is splits at home?

And another move that I'm trying to do, is something similar to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwtdmaYI7WQ#t=1885s, (foot over ones hand - does it have any name? in my case it's horizontal, not vertical as in video), where I think I suffer the same problem. Any exercises that I can do to help with move like this?

armorer
Aug 6, 2012

I like metal.

eithedog posted:

And another move that I'm trying to do, is something similar to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwtdmaYI7WQ#t=1885s, (foot over ones hand - does it have any name? in my case it's horizontal, not vertical as in video), where I think I suffer the same problem. Any exercises that I can do to help with move like this?

That move is called a "heel hook"

Endjinneer
Aug 17, 2005


Fallen Rib

coldfire07 posted:

I'm pretty new to climbing (about a month and a half), and have just been bouldering so far.

I started looking into hangboards (I wanted more room for my fingers than just the doorframe), and then came across the fact that these shouldn't even be used until you've been climbing for two years. That seems like a really long time to wait - is there some other benchmark I can use to know whether or not I'm going to gently caress up my fingers by using a hangboard?

A wee google about seems to indicate that tendons and ligaments take a lot longer to strengthen than muscles - around ten weeks. So your pulleys and so on are still catching up with your new muscular ability and will be for a while yet.

Are you sure it's strength holding you back? On the problems you find hard, are you absolutely sure you've got the sequence and the balance and body position nailed? Have you asked any of the staff or other climbers for tips and beta? Try watching other people on a problem and see if you still get those "Aha!" moments when you see the way they climb it.
If you do, it isn't your strength that's stopping you.


This will probably come across as a throwback's ramble, so feel free to ignore it: Have you thought about extending your climbing in other ways than up the grades? I appreciate the barriers to entry are much higher once you start involving ropes and pro but you'll have fun and build experience, cunning and endurance in ways that won't blow up your knuckles.
There seem to be a lot of people here who've been bouldering for a month or two and are already worried about finger injuries. To me that seems like worrying about getting caught for EPO doping while you're still riding around with stabilisers on your bike. I've been climbing for nearly 20 years and until I started bouldering last autumn, I'd have guessed a blown pulley was something to do with aid climbing.

ndrz
Oct 31, 2003



Thanks for all of the responses everyone! I definitely agree that the time would be better spent climbing more (and strength isn't what's holding me back, it's definitely technique). I was just hoping to supplementally increase strength when I'm not at the gym, just by doing some hangs for a few seconds on the way to the bathroom or something like that, not as a replacement for climbing, kind of in the same way that I just squeeze putty when I'm watching TV. I'll just make sure to pay attention that I'm not overworking anything, but it's good to know it's not a hard and fast rule.

henne
May 9, 2009

by exmarx


armorer posted:


There are ways to tape your fingers to provide additional support for the pulleys, but I haven't tried any of them personally. There is a lot of useful information online about pulley tendon injuries if you google a bit.

I've heard taping pre injury does very little to prevent injury, and taping post injury is more of a reminder and stabiliEr than a fix. Taping tight enough to act as a pully would cut off all circulation to your finger and be counter productive. I could be wrong though.

Still B.A.E
Mar 24, 2012



coldfire07 posted:

Thanks for all of the responses everyone! I definitely agree that the time would be better spent climbing more (and strength isn't what's holding me back, it's definitely technique). I was just hoping to supplementally increase strength when I'm not at the gym, just by doing some hangs for a few seconds on the way to the bathroom or something like that, not as a replacement for climbing, kind of in the same way that I just squeeze putty when I'm watching TV. I'll just make sure to pay attention that I'm not overworking anything, but it's good to know it's not a hard and fast rule.

How often do you climb? If it's 2-3 times a week, I'd just keep the intensity of your climbing sessions high, and use the rest of the time to recover. Even if it's not that often, I wouldn't bother with a fingerboard yet. If you've been climbing for a couple of months, chances are you're still really poo poo at climbing (no offence, everyone is). Just let yourself keep improving by climbing a lot, and keep trying and falling off stuff.

jackchaos
Aug 6, 2008


Still B.A.E posted:

chances are you're still really poo poo at climbing (no offence, everyone is).

This is great for any newbie climbers or folks looking to get into it. Don't let this fact get you down!

chami
Mar 28, 2011

Keep it classy, boys~


Fun Shoe

In my personal experience for someone new to climbing it's not grip strength that holds me back (even if I have to end sessions pumped from overgripping), it's footwork, technique, and sequencing.

Tarnien
Jul 4, 2003
Champion of the World!!!

coldfire07 posted:

I was just hoping to supplementally increase strength when I'm not at the gym, just by doing some hangs for a few seconds on the way to the bathroom or something like that.

I'd avoid doing this. If you're just doing this intermittently, it means that you've cooled down, which means either 1) you can hold onto it, which means it's too big to be offering any real strength gains, or 2) it's too small to be hanging on when you're not fully warmed up, and you'll likely hurt yourself.

Hangboards shouldn't be touched unless you're fully warm. This might not be something you've fully come to appreciate yet, but your climbing ability goes up about 5-10x when you're fully warmed up, and your likelihood of injury goes significantly down. Hangboards are meant to be at the limits of your abilities, and thus you need to do them when you're fully warm. Hanging for 5-10s once every 15-20 minutes isn't going to do anything, unfortunately.

Also echoing what others are saying: just go climb more. If you're just starting out, 2-3x a week is plenty, and your body needs the days off to recover fully.

And also want to emphasize: your muscles strengthen faster than your connective tissue (tendons, pulleys). So even if you "feel" strong, if you haven't been climbing for very long then your connective tissue won't be ready for the stress of real hangboarding. If you just want to monkey around on the jugs of a hangboard that's fine, but you'd be better off just making the trek to the gym than doing any hangboarding for the time being.

remote control carnivore
May 6, 2009


Endjinneer posted:

So the tatankas have stretched out maybe 3-4mm in length. I can now climb maybe 2 or 3 pitches between having to take them off but boy, do they edge well. I'm going to keep my red chilli habaneros for mountain roots and foot jams, but the tatankas are the most aggressive boot I've ever owned and I like them.

Some friends and I, in a frenzy the other night booked flights and digs in Tafraout for over new year. Excited!

Thanks for the review!

Also please post lots of pictures from Tafraout for the thread, please. :allears:

jackchaos
Aug 6, 2008


Anyone planning on being around bishop for new years? I think we have a crew rolling deep around then.

crazycello
Jul 22, 2009


jackchaos posted:

Anyone planning on being around bishop for new years? I think we have a crew rolling deep around then.

Nope but I'll be there in late March. Any advice for someone who hasn't climbed in the area before?

jackchaos
Aug 6, 2008


crazycello posted:

Nope but I'll be there in late March. Any advice for someone who hasn't climbed in the area before?

Get a book, get cheap day old goodness at shats bakery, there's a hostel now, get a fire permit it's free and you can do it from your phone, get a book, bring a friend! If you are staying for a while try the happys, sads, and the milks. If you stay at the pit sometimes there are huge mosquitos and I've had problems with one of the camp hosts there(was probably the loud laughing and whip cracking). Final note, bring your balls and do a highball. I recommend heavenly path if you are looking for something easy!

Sharks Eat Bear
Dec 25, 2004


coldfire07 posted:

Thanks for all of the responses everyone! I definitely agree that the time would be better spent climbing more (and strength isn't what's holding me back, it's definitely technique). I was just hoping to supplementally increase strength when I'm not at the gym, just by doing some hangs for a few seconds on the way to the bathroom or something like that, not as a replacement for climbing, kind of in the same way that I just squeeze putty when I'm watching TV. I'll just make sure to pay attention that I'm not overworking anything, but it's good to know it's not a hard and fast rule.

I'm going to echo some posts I've made in this thread in the past, which run contrary to some of the "conventional wisdom" that gets spouted in this climbing thread (and just about every climbing-relatd forum out there).

1) There's no physical/physiological reason to delay training until 2 years (which for whatever reason is the arbitrary number that gets touted as the milestone after which training is totally fine). Depending on the individual climber, there may very well be a psychological or motivational reason not to train -- some people find training to be incredibly tedious, and jumping into a training program too early might make them hate climbing. IMO, this is the most important consideration in training. I would have hated training when I first started climbing, because when I first started climbing I had a much more consistent social group that I climbed with and I had a lot more free time. Now, I don't have a steady set of climbing partners and my time is much more limited, so if I'm going to put in time in the gym, I want to get the most bang for my buck rather than just loving around trying to send my plastic project. The point is, don't let yourself be talked out of training as a beginner, so long as you're being honest with yourself that it's something you'd enjoy.

2) If you do decide to train while you're a relatively new climber, your main objective should be injury prevention. Getting stronger is easy and doesn't really require any training; getting stronger without getting injured is what training is so good for. For example, if you get a hangboard, I would strongly recommend that you set up a pulley system so that you can train difficult grips with less than body weight. There's a lot that goes into injury prevention, but if your objective is long-term improvement, staying injury free will probably be the most important step in achieving that objective. Training is helpful because it allows you to control the resistance and forces you put on your muscles and tendons much more than 'just climbing' does. However, the most important thing to keep in mind when you're starting out is not to overtrain. You recover and get stronger when you're not climbing/training, so it's important to give your body adequate time in between workouts. If you overtrain, you're not only at higher risk for injury, but probably also limiting potential strength gains. 3-4 climbing/training sessions per week is pretty common, but you probably shouldn't do much more climbing-related exercise in addition. So if you're deciding to hangboard, it shouldn't be in addition to your climbing gym sessions; it should be a substitute.

3) "You shouldn't start training early because you'll gain more by working on technique" is a totally misleading statement. Training can and should incorporate technique/skill development exercises, so the idea that you have to choose between technique and training is false. As a beginner, it's true that you're less likely to fail because of finger strength than because of poor technique, and therefore you'll probably see more gains by improving your technique rather than improving finger strength. However, one reason to consider training even as a beginner is that, the learning curve for a lot of technique can be pretty fast if you're climbing a few times a week, and at one point or another, finger strength will become the limiting factor. Starting training earlier will probably reduce your long-term risk of injury because by the time you do start climbing fingery/tweaky climbs, you'll already have been strengthening your fingers/tendons for some time.

4) Hand training devices like putty, squeeze tools, etc. are probably worthless, and definitely not helping you climb stronger. They might be helpful for injury prevention, but I think it's pretty unclear what/if any benefit they have.

This just kind of scratches the surface -- if you're really interested in training, I'd highly recommend picking up a book called "The Rock Climber's Training Manual" or checking out rockclimberstrainingmanual.com . It's IMO the best/most comprehensive resource on training for climbing, and does a great job explaining the principles of injury prevention and long-term improvement as it relates to climbing training.

Still B.A.E
Mar 24, 2012



I've tried to start an effort post in response to that a few times, but can't articulate it properly at the moment. It just sounds like a lot of really bad and confusing advice to me, and a way to maybe get strongish on plastic but be totally poo poo outside, and be a bit of a laughing stock.

Still B.A.E fucked around with this message at 01:14 on Dec 11, 2014

ConspicuousEvil
Feb 29, 2004


Pillbug


I couldn't have said it better myself. I think most of the people espousing the "traditional wisdom" are a bit misinformed.

Sharks Eat Bear
Dec 25, 2004


Still B.A.E posted:

It just sounds like a lot of really bad and confusing advice to me, and a way to maybe get strongish on plastic but be totally poo poo outside, and be a bit of a laughing stock.

Sorry -- do you mean the pro-training argument is bad/confusing advice? If so, I don't understand why you think it would make you differentially stronger on plastic than real rock and/or a laughingstock.

Edit: also I encourage you to finish off that effort-post. Debating the merits of climbing training is (maybe sadly) one of my favorite things :)

Sharks Eat Bear fucked around with this message at 02:11 on Dec 11, 2014

Still B.A.E
Mar 24, 2012



I'll approach it in a slightly different way - in my opinion, the biggest issue with any sort of training for climbing is knowledge. There is a vast and ever growing pool of information and literature, and for someone new to the activity to assimilate this info, identify what they want to get out of their training, identify what they need to work on in the first place rather than what they want to work on, and put this into practice in a way that doesn't end up either ruining them or being less effective than 'just climbing' is pretty difficult.

It's easy to read some training info, identify a couple of useful sounding things, and implement them. Doing it in a way that is actually effective is another thing entirely. Say I'm a beginner who wants to work on their footwork, so I read up on it and decide to do 'silent feet', 'sticky feet', whatever. However, all I can climb is the easy stuff, so I end up being really good at standing on jugs and big blobby indoor holds without making any noise, often in a way that is unnecessarily awkward. Unless you understand what the desired outcome actually is in the context of your climbing, a lot of exercises are useless.

I have to confess that I've never read your mate's book, and maybe it does a good job of compiling existing training info, but so do a lot of other resources, and I bet its message conflicts with some of them, or at least would seem to, to someone new to the ideas.

Still B.A.E
Mar 24, 2012



Sharks Eat Bear posted:

So if you're deciding to hangboard, it shouldn't be in addition to your climbing gym sessions; it should be a substitute.

3) "You shouldn't start training early because you'll gain more by working on technique" is a totally misleading statement. Training can and should incorporate technique/skill development exercises, so the idea that you have to choose between technique and training is false.

This is the main thing I took issue with tbh. Advocating strength work on a fingerboard as a substitute to a climbing session on one hand, but saying training exercises should incorporate skill development on the other? You may say one session could be a strength session, and one could be a technique development session, but I really think for a beginner, it's much more beneficial to combine the two into two hard climbing sessions before separating them.

armorer
Aug 6, 2012

I like metal.

Lets take a typical beginner as an example. I have encountered "this guy" a dozen or more times climbing at the gym. He can push though a few V3s, but has trouble on others. V2 doesn't provide any real challenge any more. "This guy" says that his primary weaknesses are slopers and crimps. In truth, he is more than capable of making the moves involving slopers and crimps, but he falls off of them because his body position is poo poo. Should he get a hangboard and practice hanging on slopers and crimps? No, he should climb more and learn better footwork and body position. He has no idea what his problem is, because he hasn't climbed enough yet to really understand what his weaknesses are.

Obviously training for climbing can help anyone climb better, without them first passing some magical 2 year mark or whatever. Without actual specific advice from someone who has watched the individual climb though, it is irresponsible to recommend something that can cause injury and may be completely unnecessary.

Dutymode
Dec 31, 2008


Still B.A.E posted:

I've tried to start an effort post in response to that a few times, but can't articulate it properly at the moment. It just sounds like a lot of really bad and confusing advice to me, and a way to maybe get strongish on plastic but be totally poo poo outside, and be a bit of a laughing stock.

I don't mean to pick on you, but this attitude toward gym climbing really bothers me. Lots of people don't have the time to climb outside, or straight up enjoy gym climbing more. 9 out of 10 times, I enjoy watching Bouldering World Cup videos more than watching people climb outdoors. Telling new climbers that they'll be a laughingstock for working hard indoors is so counter-productive. If you're a new climber and someone gives you this poo poo, go find someone else to talk to. Climbing is a blast anywhere you do it.

As for training on a hangboard as a beginner, my take is that, once again, some people will like it and others won't. I know V7 climbers who don't use hangboards because they don't think it's fun, and V3 climbers who enjoy it and feel like it helps. The important part is getting some guidance and/or reading up on using it; it's very easy to mess yourself up if you do something stupid.

Regardless of your climbing level, training can absolutely increase the rate at which you improve. A good place to start could be something like The Rock Climber's Training Manual. If you have a hangboard setup like they suggest (good board, counterweight pulley system, etc.) and strictly follow a plan, you can see rapid improvement. The big keys are being the type of person who enjoys that sort of structure and understanding the exercises and phsyiology so you don't hurt yourself.

Edit: Here's a discussion on the subject from the authors of The Rock Climber's Training Manual - http://rockclimberstrainingmanual.com/2012/09/10/qa-3-when-should-i-start-training-for-climbing/

Dutymode fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Dec 11, 2014

Discomancer
Aug 31, 2001

I'm on a cupcake caper!

armorer posted:

Lets take a typical beginner as an example. I have encountered "this guy" a dozen or more times climbing at the gym. He can push though a few V3s, but has trouble on others. V2 doesn't provide any real challenge any more. "This guy" says that his primary weaknesses are slopers and crimps. In truth, he is more than capable of making the moves involving slopers and crimps, but he falls off of them because his body position is poo poo. Should he get a hangboard and practice hanging on slopers and crimps? No, he should climb more and learn better footwork and body position. He has no idea what his problem is, because he hasn't climbed enough yet to really understand what his weaknesses are.

Obviously training for climbing can help anyone climb better, without them first passing some magical 2 year mark or whatever. Without actual specific advice from someone who has watched the individual climb though, it is irresponsible to recommend something that can cause injury and may be completely unnecessary.

Exactly this. A lot of climbers associate "I keep bombing off this hold" as a strength issue rather than a technique/body position/route reading issue. It's a logical enough idea--your fingers are failing so they need to be stronger--but this hides the true problem, and they would benefit from non-strength training WAY more. This can include working the earlier parts of the route more effectively so they aren't as pumped at the crux, building muscle memory so they are making the moves better, economy of movement, etc, and they'll hit a wall when they suddenly have no idea how to actually climb roues at like high 5.10 or V3/4ish where making big burly moves doesn't cut it anymore. You see this time and again especially with tall people and strong dudes who are used to just having "gimme" routes that they can climb poorly but without much difficulty.

The biggest thing though is that technique prevents injuries, not strength and being able to burl your way up harder and harder routes is going to lead to the usual climbing injuries when you significantly outpace your skill.

borapt
Jul 14, 2008


armorer posted:

Lets take a typical beginner as an example. I have encountered "this guy" a dozen or more times climbing at the gym. He can push though a few V3s, but has trouble on others. V2 doesn't provide any real challenge any more. "This guy" says that his primary weaknesses are slopers and crimps. In truth, he is more than capable of making the moves involving slopers and crimps, but he falls off of them because his body position is poo poo. Should he get a hangboard and practice hanging on slopers and crimps? No, he should climb more and learn better footwork and body position. He has no idea what his problem is, because he hasn't climbed enough yet to really understand what his weaknesses are.

Yuuuup. That's a me. It's interesting because I had this realization a week or two ago. It's not a strength limit that holds me back anymore - I can boulder/top rope fairly challenging routes (for me) for a few hours now and not be limited by my hands/arms. It's a balance/body position/technique limit from here on out. I maybe can't pinpoint EXACTLY which techniques I need to work on (though moving my legs is one for sure), but I know for sure that it is more important than strength now.

There are V2s and V1s that I can rush through based purely on strength. I don't need the proper technique, I don't need to be careful, because I know I can just muscle through the holds and get to the top. It looks wonky as gently caress and wastes a lot of energy. I did a V3 yesterday, which was ok for me - a diagonal route with lots of small crimpy holds with shelves in between. I struggled a bit and had to compensate by hanging on for dear life as I flailed around. Then a guy that was doing V7s nearby went on the same route and made it look so much smoother and less difficult just by being more "balanced" than me. I'm sure he was stronger than me, but I'm also sure he didn't need to use more strength than I did.

Still B.A.E
Mar 24, 2012




I didn't mean a laughing stock because they couldn't climb outside, more someone who has no clue what they're doing trying some assisted hangs off monos or whatever. I don't have a problem with people who don't climb outside, as long as they don't say stuff like 'I climb v10' cos they can do all the hard circuit at their local wall.

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Dutymode
Dec 31, 2008


The takeaway for new hangboard users should be avoiding injury, not whether or not people are laughing at you. If anything most people are going to feel silly strapping into a pulley system vs. trying a pocket with full body weight that could hurt them. Also, mad props to anyone consistently climbing V10 either indoors or outside. If your gym is accurately rated, someone climbing those is better than the vast majority of climbers will ever be.

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