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Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔

Dectilon posted:

Time for a special treat!

A little over a year ago I was running a romhack thread, and Robot Goat decided to make a little game in game maker inspired by one of my terrible jokes (or, more likely, phiggle's awesome animation, as seen here.)

A short while later Robot Goat pm:d me and said that he was considering making a full megaman fangame, but that he wasn't happy with his level designs and asked me if I wanted to help. A chance to put theory into practice?! Of course I was in!

And now, we actually have something to present (well, robot goat does, he has done the vast majority of the work)! I give you:


download here!

It's an alpha you could say since we have a lot of levels and features left to add. But there are 8 playable levels, and I'd say that's something!

The controls start as z,x,arrows,enter but you can change them to anything.

The control scheme is the same as in megaman 5, so you have slide and megabuster.

I hope to have a little race of this at some point!
Gave it a try. Still have to beat a single level, but I gotta say, so far it looks pretty neat!

I don't know if it's my kind of difficulty to play it normally, but as you can put in infinite lives...haven't done that so far...it should be possible to beat, at least.

So far I liked Spike Man's and Iceburn Man's stages the most...I'm not too big a fan of those that change the rules, and Hack's is a little too spammy for my taste.

One minor thing: If you just hang out on the right corner, Heat Man in Iceburn's stage can't ever hit you. Dunno if that's intentional?

I'll play it a few more times (and Skype you more comments to not clog up the thread).

Basically what I want to say with this post is: if you can, check it out, it has great ideas and made me laugh quite a few times!
Oh, and it has a save feature and options and poo poo that's like a million miles above that Street Fighter crossover embarrassment.

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Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔

a boxing teahorse posted:

Having a blast with this. I haven't beaten anything yet, but I really like the idea behind Mega Manatee's level.

I also noticed that attempting to slide off-screen instantly kills you. Gonna assume that's not quite as intended.
You didn't just try this in Spike Man's level, right?

It has a spike right off-screen to the left of the first screen, in case you try to get clever (like I did).

Beaten everything except for Oyster, Hack and Speedrun. It's still real fun. Wouldn't be without infinite lives, though, those are such a blessing.

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔
You know what? I'll bite.



This is indeed a very hard game, but also a really fun one, as early as it is. I want to take a look at it, even in its unfinished state, comment on what I think is reasonable, what I think pushes the line, and show off how it's a real gem in the making. Hope you like my approach to this; it's by no means a skilled run, but I have already played through all the stages and will do so again on video. Enjoy!

Edit after I finished making all the videos: There were some technical issues. In some stages, like Iceburn Man's, the sound is desynched at parts, but that doesn't persist very long for most of the time. And in Bright Man, for some reason the video would consistently play too slow at the start while I was doing commentary so I'm way behind for about 2 minutes, but that also fixes itself. I hope that isn't too bad and apologize.




Read more thoughts on the level on pastebin!




Stage thoughts on pastebin!




Stage thoughts on pastebin!




Stage thoughts on pastebin!




Stage thoughts on pastebin!



Normal video

Stage thoughts on pastebin!



...different video.




Stage thoughts on pastebin!




Stage thoughts on pastebin!


Oh, and big shout-out to raocow for having a great editing method which I shamelessly stole, even though this is not live commentary.


Merry Christmas, everybody!

Simply Simon fucked around with this message at 16:58 on Jan 15, 2013

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔

Crosscontaminant posted:

I want to eat your accent for breakfast. :allears: I like your commentary style as well, you make watching what could be an unbearable slogfest into a piece of entertainment. Please do the rest of the game.
Wow, it's been a while since I've heard that kind of praise :). Thanks a lot! You might find more from me over the LP archive ;).

Anyway, as per request I've outsourced the stage text, sorry for the initial wall. In my own threads, the OP rarely complains :D.

The next video is already finished, and the third is recorded. I guess this'll be quick and dirty and (more-or-less) easily doable!

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔

senrath posted:

It's not actually a mod. It's entirely built from scratch.
I call it a "hack" in either the second or third episode and want to apologize in advance.

Speaking of episodes...





Please excuse the random desynch for one of the edited parts (unless that magically fixed itself in some conversion). Dunno what's the problem here, VDub or Hypercam or just my old PC.

Stage thoughts on pastebin!

Simply Simon fucked around with this message at 16:35 on Dec 28, 2012

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔
A big "problem" in the boss fights specifically is that the Buster charges so quickly. You can damage them constantly and severely, and unless I'm mistaken, a half-charge shot also does two damage, which never was the case before.
You'll often get hit by the multitude of attacks, losing you the charge, but as soon as you start getting used to dodging the shots, you can rack up some serious damage seriously quickly.

It wasn't a concern against Manatee (huge lifebar[s]) and I address the concern for the next bossfight, as he has some other stuff going on besides being just there to be shot at, but it's a thing in Iceburn Man. I think Robot Goat and decti are aware of it being somewhat of a problem, seeing as how the fire pillars blocks shots and he flies around often - and I wouldn't really want the charge time to change either because it's vital for some other design and just plain fun.

It's also not too bad that Iceburn dies quickly, because then you have less opportunities to get instant-death'd...

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔
I see somebody still uses the old version.

Download the new one (or don't change weapons in Hack Man's bossfight). It should be fixed, as Mr Goat and Dectilon have assured me!

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔

donges posted:

It took me a while to figure out too - you have to stand on the green one. Considering how far that part is from the checkpoint, it got frustrating for me.
To be quite precise, when you first jump on the green, you have to keep standing on it while they flash, then you can go on, and for longer stretches, whenever you reach green, wait there for the flash to pass, then go on.

I also don't think it's intuitive at all...

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔


The picture is kinda wonky. I think I'll think of something different.

Stage Thoughts on pastebin

BD links work now!

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔

Admiral H. Curtiss posted:

Yes, I noticed that too. You guys have to fix that for the final version!
Nah, that was my fault - you might notice that the boss intro scene doesn't play? It's because I had to rerecord, which normally isn't possible so far, but with a little trick I could warp to the stage directly. Loses the intro, though. It plays there.

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔



Seems the forums update broke the way the images used to work...tough luck, I guess?

I don't have much to say mostly because I'm really tired at the moment, so just this: It is most definitely possible to go under the AT-ST at the start, decti even made a video showing me how to do it because that's rubbing in how dumb I am, so I'm just talking out of my rear end and my own ineptness there. Sue me!

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔
Yup, he's invulnerable whenever he's moving, basically - in the first part, at least; you can only get him when he's revving up. In the second part, bouncy phase is always vulnerable, chargephase only in the small window where he's level with you.

Captain Bravo posted:

Do those spikes that fall down in the first part hurt you, or instakill you? If they're instadeath, that seems to be exactly one of those "Get killed by it once, before you know that it's there and can avoid it" traps that everyone hates so much. Every spike after the first drops down a little beforehand, so you know where it's going to fall, but that first one has no warning until it's falling, and it falls pretty fast.
They're not instant-kill; I would certainly have bitched about that if it were the case :v:.

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔
I added Stage thoughts for Speedrun Man's stage (and all the other links for the videos) into my "OP"! Oh yeah and I fixed Punch Donkey's image, I guess.

Tengames posted:

For the falling platform at 7:35 you can actually jump off it at the bottom despite its speed. You can also slide off it to reach the bottom platform, which can make the timing a bit easier.
Didn't realize that, I hosed it up once and the thought it impossible because it looks like you lose contact and too many games do have the problem of it being impossible if that happens ;).

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔
Dark Souls very clearly tells you again and again (by killing your sorry rear end) that if you're not absolutely sure that the button you're about to press won't backfire, then you shouldn't press that button.

I think if the rules are consistent and they're not so tight that abiding by them is ridiculous, it's absolutely fair. For the record: I love Dark Souls, it's balls-hard but feels so, so fair. Every death is my fault and that's exactly how it should be.

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔



Stage thoughts on pastebin!

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔
There are two versions of today's video. This is the normal one:




Stage thoughts on pastebin!

...and this is something completely different. Either the worst or the best thing I've ever done, decide for yourself.


Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔

Sythe2o0 posted:

You can actually dodge the boss' screen-flash-to-one-hitpoint attack if you slide under the middle platform, I believe.
Interesting. However, I think the entire boss design is pretty iffy, as I've talked about in the video. I never had any kind of serious trouble, so the first time I did him, I didn't even notice he was getting me to 1 HP, the second time I thought "huh had I really taken that much damage before?" and the third time I caught on, finally, but too late to really try and think of dodging...not that it matters, it's pretty easy to dodge all his shots, many as they might be.
In that, I think it kinda falls flat as a gimmick. As do the "touch Oysters, get dizzy" things...you get hit once per fight and they also damage you, with almost no way to avoid them (unless I'm just bad at bullet hell, as said already). I think it would be better if they did no damage, were still almost unavoidable but came more often, so you can feel the brunt of their poison.

Glad at least a few of you like the alternate video :D.

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔
Wow, I clicked on the AVGN review you mention like half an hour ago because YT recommended it to me. Seeing the cover here again kinda made me start a little, haha.

This actually doesn't look half bad. How does wall-crawling work, does he do it on his own or do you have to press a button? How are the controls apart from the nonsensical button mapping, does it feel tight like other Capcom game (Mega Man...) or looser, with momentum, do you slide a little after each jump?

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔
Sounds completely in line, then. I can easily see how auto-stick would make it frustratingly impossible with more poo poo flying around. NO DON'T CLING TO THE WALL I JUST WANTED TO DODGE FUUUU

Looking forward to more!

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔



Stage thoughts on pastebin!

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔

Dectilon posted:

Hmm... The original mm5 gravity man bores me to tears (even for being a mm5-level), whereas I love the ones in WDS. I agree that that met should despawn once you're on the ladder.
WDS level for reference, as I was just rewatching it.

I do agree that the original Gravity stage had its awesome gimmick criminally underused. WDS does it awesomely (except for that one part you hate). I always love level design that has you revisit old ground, but from a completely different angle; like when you're climbing a central room in a Zelda dungeon. Here, you do that in a microcosm. WDS has some beautiful examples or using the same blocks twice, which adds a whole new challenge to the level design and makes it all the sweeter when it works.

In Hack Man's Gravity part, I just don't feel wow'd, I guess. In contrast to WDS. Having the ladders almost feels like a cop-out, as you're just doing a big loop, not that intricate dance around the same block. And two of those jumps are pretty awkward, in my opinion at least - especially the one I kept messing up. Yeah, it's my fault too, but...WDS doesn't have jumps like that, just those really cool round and round again affairs. That's why I'd say it's better and Hack could use a little sprucing up. Again, it's okay (if you improve the shots and the ladders a little!!), but I feel like it could be even better :). Sadly, I can't really offer any kind of constructive criticism here, as that would basically boil down to "I've drawn you a map in MS paint how about you place the blocks like this".

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔
Strange. But I think this was the video where I had to fiddle with the encoding method a little, because MeGUI updated in-between and removed my standard option, so it's quite possible that YT (or Chrome-YT) can't deal with the M4V audio I used for it (and only it; after doing Hack Man, I figured out how stuff works almost as before again).

That's what the alternative mirror is for, I guess? I can't well go back and re-encode at the moment, sorry.

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔

Admiral H. Curtiss posted:

Not to mention that downloading it on Youtube gives you a version Youtube reencoded, while downloading it on BDash gives you the higher quality file Simon uploaded.
60 fps! I think if I'd reduced that it'd have gotten rid of the random desynchs in some stages, but I have standards, drat it :colbert:!

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔


This video kept playing too slowly in the first two minutes or so while I was recording commentary, so I'm pretty desynched. Hope it's not too bad, fixes itself later.

Stage thoughts on pastebin!

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔
I have a little material for a bonus vid already (the top path of Iceburn's, to be precise). Might just collect a little more (based on your suggestions), and compile that.

This will take a little, as the files are not on this computer. But it's not like it's going to be very hard, so sure, why not :).

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔
I remember playing SSW waaaay back at a friend's who had a lot of cool games (also the first time I saw Mega Man 7). We didn't get far. I pretty recently tried it out again, but I still suck at it.

It's a game with a strange feel to it. To be quite precise, it looks like a Genesis game to me. Ridiculous explosions everywhere, and all the tech demos they could cram into the cartridge. Also something about the textures/tilesets. Dunno.

On the other hand, it kind of makes me think not of Contra (I never played Contra), but of Mega Man. How that series could have developed if they hadn't insisted on "only shoot forward ever" when making the jump to 16 bit.

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔

Nephilm posted:

People losing their clothes when becoming victims of shredding devices or animals used to be a fairly common visual gag in the cartoons I watched as a kid; I think you people are looking too much into it by attributing it a sexual element.
Seriously. Would he prefer she be torn to bloody bits instead?

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔

FreezingInferno posted:



This is it! We're gonna beat the game, and the surprisingly short Death Star segments that are left! The Force is with us! I recall there was a person who showed interest in posting a speedrun once I was done. I'd love to see that. Just sayin'.

Part 5: In Which The Ability To Destroy A Planet Is Insignificant Next To The Power Of A Plasma Blaster
Wow, the level design of those last platforming stages is seriously lovely. Random platforms and holes and enemies and TIE fighters with no time to react to and all that on a straight line? Instant death traps which are just the exact same about 20 times? A vertical shaft with also completely random platforms and almost nothing else?
"Impressive" final level, at least.

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔

Dectilon posted:

Yes.

Actually, let me specify. In between levels is fine, but no reloading mid-level bullshit. :mad:
:ssh: I used save states for MMDongs :ssh:

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔
I actually heard of the Golem story you were talking about during the cave level just a week ago. Why? Because I'm in Prague at the moment, and it originates from here!

Jump to "The classic narrative: The Golem of Prague" on this Wikipedia link. It's not that interesting though; there are just many differing folk tales of a Golem being created by a Rabbi to defend the ghetto from antisemits.

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔

SnakemanMn posted:

The battle between Contra videos and non-Contra videos rages on, so let me add another video from the non-Contra side to help balance things out. Have some mo' Journey to Silius. Hope you enjoy it.


So...does the game have any in-level checkpoints? Because if not, then holy poo poo, the entire thing without health pickups, yes, that'd count as fairly brutal!

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔

SnakemanMn posted:

There are checkpoints, yes. They're especially useful in the later stages because they'll sprawl on longer than the first two. (Except the fifth. It's short, but it auto-scrolls.)

Of course, given the nature of the LP and my attempt at rolling through each stage without a death, it's going to be particularly obnoxious because they make the game so much less of a pain.
Probably :keke:.

...the game doesn't have extra life pickups either, right?

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔

KingEffingFrost posted:

I had never seen Wily 2 before that. That speed-up section is just phenomenal and looks really fun. It's shocking how well it works in Mega Man.
A LOT of things work surprisingly well in Mega Man, because the engine is so simple. Shake it up a little, a touch of cleverness, and it easily becomes a thing of beauty. It's such a drat shame the stock games never bother actually doing so, of course; otherwise we'd have tons and tons of cool poo poo like this. It doesn't help that whenever they try introducing something new, it miraculously is the most awful poo poo. Just compare "loving awesome, I can ride a Joe walker!" to "ah Jesus loving Christ they have TWO Ride Chaser levels in X8???". Nothing needs to be awful, Capcom's designers are just too often terrible at deviating from a very narrow norm.

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔

djw175 posted:

Would Megaman Xtreme be a difficult enough game? I mean they manage to sort of make Chill Penguin difficult by making the arena slightly smaller and making Megaman be made out of paper.
I'm not Dectilon, but I'd figure a game would qualify to be LP'd for this thread if you can clearly work out on your LP why you consider it fitting. The entire point is to analyze for difficulty, or, when it's obvious, provide solutions - so "this is harder in the port because" would definitely fit, I think. Also, I'd love to see an SA LP of the Xtreme games. I tried myself but holy poo poo does double-tap dash-jumping not work.

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔

Choco1980 posted:

Man, I would play the absolute hell out of a full mega man metroidvania game.
If only, ZX...

Though the Zero games can come close, at least in the "secrets hidden everywhere with little puzzles involved to get them" department.

Also, ever heard of Mega Man X Corrupted? It's a fangame that's been in production for ages but is apparently still being worked on? Supposed to be a full Metroidvania with shitloads of content, really ambitious. Check out trailers on YT. If it ever gets released, it should be the best thing ever (or seriously overhyped, who knows :v: ).

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔
Guys just click on the Common Brushtail Possum it's not that hard jeez


Kid Chameleon looks like a game that's really cool and fun and varied and it looks great and sounds amazing, and then you realize that you have limited lives and continues and no save feature. If I had this as a kid, I'd have played it a bit but then ultimately gotten to a stage like that Sewer poo poo with all the blind jumps and rear end in a top hat enemy placements and never picked it up again. It's just something I could never, even as a little one, tolerate. Might also have to do with my first video game being Yoshi's Island which just had autosave all the time. Still, it's something I can't really understand. There's a game I had which did feature a password system, but only on the easiest difficulty, which removed all the bosses and an entire stage (of six) :psyduck:. Repetition is NOT difficulty, gah.

And it's a crying shame, too, again, because the game looks really awesome. I just could never play it without substantial safety nets, especially considering the length. gently caress up getting a cool teleport to a level you've not yet seen about two thirds through the game? Welp replay for a week because this poo poo is hard until you can reach that point again.

Unless I'm not getting something here.

Wiki mentions that re-releases add a save feature, which is imho the only thing Kid Chameleon would need to be extraordinarily fun to play [around with].

All in all, I'm probably most looking forward to your updates in this thread, Zeikier, just wanted to let you know because the Contra love kinda overshadows you :). Never been too much of a fan of bullets everywhere, no offense to the LPers (doing a great job, too). Wanna see more of that special brand of Genesis level design!

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔
drat that game looks full of completely obscure bullshit and also completely devoid of fun.


Got a little offering of my own; I've just started an LP for Mega Man III for Game Boy, and the game could well fit within this thread, as I consider it to be quite hard. However, I want to keep it its own thread, as for all of my other full Mega Man LPs. Dectilon gave me his okay to point over there, however, so if you crave more in-depth looks at tough old-school platformers, I'd love to get your attention :).

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔
This loving level.

I tried CVIII a while ago, just to see how it was, and I quite liked it, and then I got to here. I had even braved the sunken city, which already was pretty hard as gently caress, but this...nah, the mine broke me. I waited ages for blocks to drop and I was soooo bad at dodging them, still powered through...
But then, the falling platforms, crumbly blocks, and bats all the time? If you don't time the platforms exactly right, if you take just a little too long to dodge the bats, you ride the platforms down into death...or a retry of the entire room. It's the absolute worst, I hate it.
Even made it to the next room. Then medusa heads over flipping platforms and oh the ceiling is coated with spikes because gently caress you.
I kind of ragequitted then. It would even have gone on even longer!

Oh, and totally didn't know about the bat transformation thingy. Whoops!

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Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔


I made this video for my MMIII thread; after the very short stage at the start, I talk about why that game is diffcult and how it sometimes succeeds, sometimes fails in it, with plenty examples. I think it's right at home here. Hope I don't come across like too much of a shill.

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