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Jeedy Jay posted:Ah, Salome. I love that goofy-haircut-having robo-cleric. Glad to have you on board.  Speedball posted:So, to recap: from Hugo's perspective, the Zexen have attacked without provocation, and from Chris's perspective, the Grasslanders attacked without provocation. That's correct, yes. Don't worry, things will get more confusing once we see a third side to this story. On that note, sorry for the delay. This week has been fairly hellish, and I won't be around this weekend either. I'll try to get an update out before I leave for the weekend, but no promises. In the mean time, have this stupid doodle as an apology, since it takes far less time to scribble than to update. 
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Feb 14, 2013 01:07
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Speedball posted:So, to recap: from Hugo's perspective, the Zexen have attacked without provocation, and from Chris's perspective, the Grasslanders attacked without provocation. Given the timing of the events, I'd point to the lizardfolk for swinging the first blade. But I suppose we'll find out why they did that before too long, and then the real mystery will begin.
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Feb 14, 2013 02:09
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Speedball posted:So, to recap: from Hugo's perspective, the Zexen have attacked without provocation, and from Chris's perspective, the Grasslanders attacked without provocation. Palpatine's behind it all.
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Feb 14, 2013 03:54
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Abitha Denton posted:Palpatine's behind it all. No, Old Man Withers, the guy who runs the abandoned haunted lottery stall.
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Feb 14, 2013 04:06
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FeyerbrandX posted:No, Old Man Withers, the guy who runs the abandoned haunted lottery stall. And he would have gotten away with it if not for those meddling kids and their duck, too. 
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Feb 14, 2013 04:49
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FeyerbrandX posted:No, Old Man Withers, the guy who runs the abandoned haunted lottery stall. Man, gently caress that guy. gently caress his lottery stall too. In fact, gently caress the lottery. djw175 posted:And he would have gotten away with it if not for those meddling kids and their duck, too. Mind the duck, he bites.
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Feb 14, 2013 05:28
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My biggest problem with this game was based on my own mistake. Minor endgame spoilers: The last dungeon splits into paths, with each main character and their chosen team going down one. Thomas gets a path, as I recall. However, you don't actually use him at all on that path, which means my effort at grinding him and his original group of lovely characters up was completely pointless. That really pissed me off for some reason.
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Feb 15, 2013 03:59
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"We're trapped behind enemy lines! What do we do?" "Hmm... MURDER CIVILIANS." That wasn't even like the dude's fallback plan, that was his first option.
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Feb 16, 2013 06:17
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Glazius posted:"We're trapped behind enemy lines! What do we do?" Suikoden III as a whole is a game focused on really terrible plan A's that they just go with without any consideration that there could be a plan B. It makes it kind of awesome.
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Feb 16, 2013 07:13
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Well, it's more "burn down buildings and hope the fleeing civilians distract their army", but it's certainly a plan with needlessly high body count potential.
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Feb 16, 2013 09:35
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Ahhh, Suikoden III. A fun game, even if wrangling with the Trinity Sight system to see everything was troublesome sometimes. Still, it's better than the next game, though that's not saying much. At all. One thing I really did love about this game was that it actually let the main characters speak. Silent protagonists may work for a 2D game, but it gets awkward in 3D (I'm looking at you, Lazlo and Freyjadour), and it really helped the quality of the story to give Hugo, Chris, Geddoe, and Thomas their own voices rather than let everyone around them speak for them. Out of curiosity, yokaiy, are you planning on showing off the rare spawns? I remember a few of them, such as the Zexen Forest one, changing between chapters. Don't think we've reached that cut-off for any of them yet, though.
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Feb 18, 2013 07:51
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Verant posted:Silent protagonists may work for a 2D game, but it gets awkward in 3D (I'm looking at you, Lazlo and Freyjadour), and it really helped the quality of the story to give Hugo, Chris, Geddoe, and Thomas their own voices rather than let everyone around them speak for them. The big problem with silent protagonists is when they can't emote. Freyjadour is actually pretty expressive even if he never says a goddamn word.
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Feb 18, 2013 08:04
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Testekill posted:The big problem with silent protagonists is when they can't emote. Freyjadour is actually pretty expressive even if he never says a goddamn word. True enough. It wasn't as bad for Frey, but it still felt awkward at times, especially since the amount of voice acting went through the roof in V. And to be fair, Tir and Riou had their own moments where they were able to emote in their respective games despite being silent. Lazlo, though...well, sometimes he gave off the impression of being dropped on his head as a child. Several times.
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Feb 18, 2013 08:12
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Suikoden on the whole is better about it than some games (A lot of the SMT spinoffs get a mention here), but by the PS2 era it definitely wasn't holding up. Like, in the original game, I can kinda buy Tir just being a really quiet guy who only speaks up when he absolutely has to. The ratio of dialog choices to scenes where he needs to say something is really good, and there's a handful of times when words just wouldn't be the right choice to start with and the game does well with those. Your life-long caretaker is gone, not even leaving a body to mourn? Yeah, that sprite pose conveys that emotion. Sneaking off in the middle of the night to spare your friends and nation the curse of the Soul Eater? The scene conveys that intent without a word being spoken. That sort of thing. Freyadour meanwhile... expressive as he can be, I feel like they crossed the line between "he's showing emotion without words!" into "he clearly should be saying things but the words don't come out because of stupid silent main conventions" territory. It stopped being part of the character and became an obvious limitation imposed on the game due to whatever reason, probably a really loud and stupid bit of the fandom.
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Feb 18, 2013 08:21
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CmdrKing posted:Freyadour meanwhile... expressive as he can be, I feel like they crossed the line between "he's showing emotion without words!" into "he clearly should be saying things but the words don't come out because of stupid silent main conventions" territory. It stopped being part of the character and became an obvious limitation imposed on the game due to whatever reason, probably a really loud and stupid bit of the fandom. Playing devil's advocate here, they did give us a speaking main character in the "next" game after V. And hooo boy, he would not shut up at all. But we don't talk about Tierkreis. Ever.
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Feb 18, 2013 08:25
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Truthfully I thought he was one of the things that actually worked in that game. The "gently caress subtlety" approach to the whole destiny thing they took required that sort of character. Now why the gently caress they put voice acting in the game if they were just going to compress it down to chipmunk I'll never understand. I definitely questioned why the hell I was still playing the game every ten minute or so in the opening act thanks almost entirely to that (the game got better after that! Not good, but better.)
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Feb 18, 2013 08:35
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CmdrKing posted:Freyadour meanwhile... expressive as he can be, I feel like they crossed the line between "he's showing emotion without words!" into "he clearly should be saying things but the words don't come out because of stupid silent main conventions" territory. It stopped being part of the character and became an obvious limitation imposed on the game due to whatever reason, probably a really loud and stupid bit of the fandom. On a side note, I do love how non-traditional these games are in terms of the impact the player character has on the story, and how the player characters are treated. Here you've got Chris with an entourage, parade, and fan clubs just for her. And she's the legitimate military leader of her faction. Same thing with Frey in V, and Lazlo in IV (haven't gone through the Let's Plays of any other), the player character has significant consequence to the world around them. Comparing it to Dragon Age or even Fable 3 is probably best becuase you're the leader of a nation (or effectively it's army), but the contrast between how the world treats these characters is amazing. In Fable your character has to make swords for money, and doesn't have everyone around going "Oh look, it's the King/Queen!" when you charge through a villiage. And you're just kinda... there, in the game world as the Hero. Dragon Age is similar, you have more weight/impact on the world, but you're not the actual ruler of the nation, or even somebody with much clout beyond those you know. You can't just whistle and have an army, you have to cajole, bribe, bludgeon and connive your way to getting a different King on the throne so that you can have the military you need. Finally, just personally, I like how these stories, for the most part, don't have that "You were a farmer and poo poo happened and now you're Hiro Protagonist! Save the world with your special powers now!" Three instead is about a struggle for territory between two separate groups. Five is about an attempted Coup and the fallout from that. Four has Exiled knights, and a special power (ok, it's more hero's journey than the others). But just the fact that you're not some bumpkin that gets tossed into something more than themselves is... refreshing. Sorry for the tangent. Liking the LP thus far, and hope to see more soon.
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Feb 18, 2013 09:03
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Discovered this LP last night, and I'm onboard until the end. I agree with everything said about the main three's costume design, even if I didn't realize why I liked it before. When I have people draw D&D characters or something, I provide Suikoden III characters as references. I think every main supporting cast of the main characters are well done, and only some of the oddball optional recruitment's get kinda weird. I really, really like S3. Introduction to the series, and one of my favorite PS2 RPGs. I like where they were going with the battle system, and wished they had refined the things introduced in this game rather than recoil too far and give us S4. And more games need to have something like the Trinity Sight system. Regarding what CmdrKing said, I actually did that for one of my playthroughs. It's so satisfying to waffle stomp the rest of the game when Chris is involved. Oh, about the Celtic Suikoden III soundtrack, I found it here.
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Feb 18, 2013 16:30
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Verant posted:Out of curiosity, yokaiy, are you planning on showing off the rare spawns? I remember a few of them, such as the Zexen Forest one, changing between chapters. Don't think we've reached that cut-off for any of them yet, though. I will be showing off the rare spawns, yes, but probably not all of them. Grinding for encounters is really painful at the framerate it's running at for me. Good news, though. The Zexen Forest one is one that I've already run into! (It's also my favorite.) Had I missed it, though, it would have been available in Geddoe's first chapter as well. It'll be shown off in either the next update or the one after. I've got the screens already, just need to organize them into a post, which I haven't been able to do because I was out and with no internet the past few days. So, yeah, thanks for waiting, guys, and I should have a new update for you either today or tomorrow! Calax posted:
Not at all, I love reading these posts. Unless you guys get spoiler-y or really off-topic, I'm just gonna sit back and let you do your thing. mageofthesands posted:Discovered this LP last night, and I'm onboard until the end. I agree with everything said about the main three's costume design, even if I didn't realize why I liked it before. When I have people draw D&D characters or something, I provide Suikoden III characters as references. I think every main supporting cast of the main characters are well done, and only some of the oddball optional recruitment's get kinda weird.  Sui3 had some very nice concept work, yes. Glad I could help break it down for you, and if you have any requests for other designs, I can do to town on them too if you want. There are a few more I'll be doing anyway, of course, but I'm open to doing ones I hadn't planned on. I might also do certain locations and racial facts, because there are some very nice details there too that you might not really notice at first. Oh boy, Celtic soundtrack! Thanks for the link, I'll probably be listening to it all day.
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Feb 18, 2013 16:50
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Veyrall posted:I love how she goes from skimpy carnival girl to skimpier carnival girl to somewhat risque evening dress to Anime Pinup to Anime Pinup 2: Pinup Harder. I realize this is a relatively old post, but they did actually call attention to her getup in V. Specifically with the Princess calling her a Hussy outright to her face. And it sort of fits with the fact that your entire area is more of a tropical climate than anything else it seems. Kinda. Just out of question, is there any ways to outright break the crap out of the game? I know in the IV let's play he just went ahead and use savestates to get the golden hammer right from the get go, and V has a few total gamebreakers. If anyone wants me to really elaborate on the "World feels like your PC actually matters" thing, speak up. I wrote that post at 2 am before passing out, so it's not the most coherent thing. I'll mostly be using Suikoden V as a reference rather than III because I'm a fanboy for V, and have the most experiance with it.
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Feb 19, 2013 02:55
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Calax posted:Just out of question, is there any ways to outright break the crap out of the game? I know in the IV let's play he just went ahead and use savestates to get the golden hammer right from the get go, and V has a few total gamebreakers. It's been a while since I played, but there's at least two characters who will punch out the world, and Hugo on Fubar quickly becomes absolutely devastating. Also, we'll be getting some very, very nice runes eventually.
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Feb 19, 2013 03:01
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Calax posted:
It also, in my mind, makes the recruiting spree that your characters eventually go on a little more believable. Not only is each character on their own recruiting fewer, but the writers can actually attempt to add some charisma to the recruiters. Chris has her leadership and presence, Hugo an inner drive that comes across pretty well, and we'll see the other guys when they show up. It also lets said characters make decisions on their own. I recall in II and V you're pretty much just the army's figurehead doing whatever the current strategist tells you is a good idea, which kind of really undermines your whole "leader" status. The game could progress with any old chum in the protag's spot, so long as they had the firepower to make up for whatever the true rune of the week is (and many members of your 108 are capable of such). And yes, for a guy who is the face of the resistance and a huge recruiting draw, surprisingly few NPCs recognize you. And far fewer question whether, in fact, you asking them to head to your home castle isn't just a way of getting them alone with all their valuables in a place by a bunch of guys who answer to you.
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Feb 19, 2013 04:23
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As Suikoden games go, III is fairly resistant to breaking. The level 99 trick does give you more-or-less immortal characters, but the effort to reward ratio is terrible; you'll spend far longer doing it than it's really worth. While the usual array of awesome support runes are in the game, they're available much later than in Suikoden II, and even then they aren't worth anything without investing the time to raising your skill ranks as well. You don't really get any of the high-tier magic runes early on, and relatively speaking magic is probably at its weakest in Suikoden III anyway so getting an early Rage or Thunder rune would be useful but not really game-breaking. No mistake, you can break this game, but it's not until a long ways in, well past the half-way point. I think it's one of the biggest reasons series fans sometimes dislike III; no Suikoden game has had inspiring gameplay, and the ability to search the nooks and crannies and achieve ultimate power and finding different ways to break the game over your knee were the non-plot appeal of the series. Suikoden III holds out on you quite a while in that department, so someone going into it from Suikoden II wuold probably be miffed.
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Feb 19, 2013 05:34
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Genaro posted:It also lets said characters make decisions on their own. I recall in II and V you're pretty much just the army's figurehead doing whatever the current strategist tells you is a good idea, which kind of really undermines your whole "leader" status. The game could progress with any old chum in the protag's spot, so long as they had the firepower to make up for whatever the true rune of the week is (and many members of your 108 are capable of such). And yes, for a guy who is the face of the resistance and a huge recruiting draw, surprisingly few NPCs recognize you. And far fewer question whether, in fact, you asking them to head to your home castle isn't just a way of getting them alone with all their valuables in a place by a bunch of guys who answer to you. It still feels a lot more empowering than "Oh look, we have magic rune on person, quick! Follow that rune trail!" from your companions. There was a game recently where almost exactly what you said happened. You were the leader of the army, but you never actually made any real decisions about ANYTHING. It was just "Well your generalship, we need to have this done for us, go do it!". Hrm :goes digging through the other board he posts at: This is the closest I can find http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/59604-jrpgs/ Note: Does go into a we bit o' spoiler territory on peripheral things about V in my gigantic  post.
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Feb 19, 2013 05:58
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yokaiy posted:
Well, how about the rest of the Chris' crew? There are plenty of games where you get guys that are / were part of the military, yet look nothing like the soldiers seen fighting. Here, the Zexan Knights are clearly wearing armor in tune with what the regular faceless knights wear, yet they still have personal touches. Even squire Louis fits in. Put a helmet on them, and you'd be hard pressed to guess that the're important people. Maybe a step up from regular troops, but not a neon sign saying "FUTURE PARTY MEMBER" like some other games.
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Feb 19, 2013 07:17
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Sure. I don't know how much detail I can go into with them all individually, but let's try to tackle them as a group while I'm being too lazy to upload all the images for the update. (You'll have it in a few hours, by the way, after I sleep.) First off, I'd like to take a moment to appreciate body-type variation. The Zexen Knights all have different heights, and there's a bit of girth-variation as well. (There was another picture which better showed off height variation, but included a spoiler character, so please imagine Roland being like a foot taller than he appears in this picture. He's standing in the back, shh!) Body type variations are recurring in this game, and every group of characters has some nice range, but we'll get to the other groupings later, I guess. Louis is, obviously, the smallest of the bunch. He's still a child, though his exact age is, I don't believe, ever mentioned. However, his round face and large eyes make him seem like he's far behind the others in experience. His armor is also much skimpier, and the jacket much shorter and plainer, denoting his lower status, as well as his lesser aptitude for the battlefield. His outfit just seems less protective, which reinforces the fact -- that he himself has pointed out -- of him being a poor soldier. And yet, the materials are still heavy, and he's wearing thick boots and gloves, so he wouldn't be entirely helpless if it came down to it. Borus and Percival share very similar body types (Percy is just a bit taller), and there is no armor variation between the two, as they hold pretty much the same rank, leaving the only obvious differences (aside from personality) to be in their faces and poses. So let's talk about those. Borus has a perma-frown, which can already say a lot about him as a character. He's brash and tends to react first and think later, but he's also very proud and very easily offended. In fact, he seems to find offense in a LOT of things. His furrowed brow hints at his aggressive nature, and that his head is turned but his eyes are looking back at you show that he is often suspicious and defensive. Not willing to let you out of his sight. His hair is short but messy, hinting that he really only wishes to keep it out of his way, and doesn't worry too much over appearances. At least his own appearance, anyway. The way he's standing, with his arms on his hips, gives off an air of arrogance. And we've seen his arrogant nature in his conversation with Dupa, and in how he talks about Grasslanders as if they're beneath him. However, you might notice how he has the biggest eyes aside from Louis, and this is to show off a child-like sincerity. You can read him like a book, and he wears his heart on his sleeve. Percival, on the other hand, looks much less high-strung than his blond counterpart. He's calm, and even has a slight smirk going on, as well as arched, bemused eyebrows. His hair is pretty carefully styled, and this comes up a few times from the other knights's teasing. He seems to look the part of the playboy, and is easily the most laid-back of the knights, caring much about appearances. However, we've seen that he takes his job very seriously when it's necessary, judging from how quickly he got back on his feet when Fubar swooped down. His smirk shows that he's also a bit cocky, but not to the point of Borus. The fact that he's crossing his arms is a bit misleading for his design, actually, as it could either show boredom or impatience, and both would be true depending on the situation. He's much lazier, but he tends to adapt well to situations, and doesn't like making more work for himself or for others. Next, we have Leo. He's got the most mass to him of the knights, and his rough features and spiky armor show just how gruff of a man he is. He's second tallest next to Roland, as well, and he's a wall of a man that has a mountain of armor, which pretty literally goes to show how he is in combat -- a wall of HP and defense but with very little speed. His weapon of choice, being an axe, as well as his mohawk-ponytail, however, pins him down as a little bit of a weirdo when it comes to the knights. An axe isn't really your standard fare for Zexen soldiers, after all. Leo is another character with an appropriately misleading character design. His huge body frame and stern expression give off an air of confidence, but he is quick to blame himself for things, and actually becomes very nervous and guilty when he thinks he could have done better. Salome is a robot. He's got a stern face, a haircut very fitted to his face with no allowance to get in his way, a large brow, and no eyebrows. He's got a look like he's always serious, or mad, or both, and this is reflected in his personality, as he is much less likely to joke around than the other knights. His weapon choice, a mace, is just as blunt as he is. As a tactician, he would theoretically see less combat than other units, and so he wears less armor than the other knights, instead opting for a thick jacket to protect his arms. However, this makes him no less experienced, as he'll still be doing a lot of damage in battle. His wisdom is shown mostly through the thick bags under his eyes, which hint at a lot of studying and only a little bit of sleep. He's probably the most straight-forward looking of the bunch. And then, there's Roland. Even more than Louis, he is the most lightly-equipped of the bunch. His only real piece of armor is the chestplate, as his pauldrons are mostly of a leather material. Other than that, he is wearing lighter materials -- not thin by any means, but something looser to allowe more ease of movement, which makes sense given his occupation as a ranger or scout of sorts. I can also imagine him not being very comfortable with metal armor, as he's an elf. His tabard-thing is also a bit shorter than the other knights', again, for ease of movement. Onto his physical characteristics. He actually comes off as slightly rebellious looking, with purple hair (I don't know, is that normal for elves?) and a bunch of piercings on his ears. If you take a closer look at his outfit, he also has a gratuitous amount of belts in places that are not around his waist. This fits with his general backstory of leaving behind the forest and elves so that he could go gallivanting around with a bunch of human knights in a stone city by the sea. His face is a bit harsher than elves are normally portrayed -- smooth, pale skin with long, flowing hair and the like. His hair is chopped pretty short, he has pronounced cheekbones, a sharp chin, and a fairly big nose. He's a far cry away from your standard, cookie-cutter elf. He also has an expression where he looks like he gives absolutely no fucks at all. And he probably doesn't. He's rude and blunt and not very gentle or fair at all. Hope you like reading words.
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Feb 19, 2013 08:22
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I like reading words.yokaiy posted:Louis is, obviously, the smallest of the bunch. He's still a child, though his exact age is, I don't believe, ever mentioned. It might not be mentioned in game, but Suikosource lists him as born in 461, and S3 takes place in 475, so he should be 14 at this point. While we're on the subject, Chris is 21, Borus 24, Percival 25, Leo 36 (!), Salome 31 (in robot years) and Roland is 25. quote:I don't know, is that normal for elves? It seems pretty common. The first games had blue  and purple  and I think the elven NPCs had green hair. And Selma in IV/Tactics has green hair as well.
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Feb 19, 2013 18:01
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Chris Chapter 1.4 - We Didn't Start the Fire The knights make it to the village as it becomes evening. Salome and Chris make up the rear, as Borus and Roland had already taken what few men they had into the village, going around the back.  : "Set the village on fire! But don't harm the villagers. Our object is to upset the Karayan troops."For such a sick mission, they're being very civil about it. Presumably Salome and Chris had instructed Borus and Roland on their noble plan as well, before we'd arrived.  : "Yes sir!" Salome and his men set off ahead of Chris and Louis.   : "Let's do our part, Louis."She seems reluctant to burn Karaya, but for the sake of her men, she must.  Louis, you are so sweet.  But you'd be pretty bad at that, I'm sure.: "That is very kind of you, Louis." The two continue on to the already-burning village.    : "Is it because of the wind? I can't see any villagers." She trots through the village surveying the area. Louis begins to lag behind her, in awe of the destruction. He'd seen far fewer battlefields than she, after all. Suddenly, something catches her eye.  : "Can it be... my dear father's?"She directs her horse armor-ward to inspect the piece.  The piece is worn and rusted. She hesitates a moment, collecting her thoughts. : "I'd know this battle gear anywhere. It IS my father's!"Anger becomes plain on her face. Her father was missing for years! He was pronounced dead, as well! She had been alone since childhood. What was this doing in the heart of Grasslands? : "Does this mean that he was killed by a Karayan... here on this land?"She shakes her head furiously. : "How could that be? If someone here dishonored him..." A shout from Louis gets her attention.  : "Be careful, my lady!" : "You! It had to be you!"   Lulu runs at her, and she reflexively slashes at her opponent.   The Grasslanders run towards their now dead friend.  : "Noooooo! Lulu, no!"Hugo shakes Lulu, who doesn't stir. After a few moments, he hugs Lulu's dead body close. : "Why? Why did this have to happen?! I... I went to Zexen to stop this. Why didn't they... take my message... Why?!": "I--I didn't..." : "I did not know a child was attacking me." : "No! Not true!" Joe steps between them, blocking Hugo from Chris.  The knights ride in, right on cue.  : "Let us make haste, Captain. Enemy reinforcements approach.": "I am sorry... child." She turns to join with the other knights. Louis is dumbstruck by the events, but the rest of the Zexens seem much less disturbed than she and her squire.   They proceed through the village. : "As I suspected, the Karayan army is approaching. Let's go to the rear of the village and join Borus."  Sure enough, Karayan warriors approach and cut the knights off. So let's take the opportunity to show off some runes, since they're not as easy as other things we've fought so far.  Roland's Great Hawk Rune is an AoE spell that centers around a target. Here he's targeting one of the middle Karayans so he can hit them all.  There's a flashy light...  And he lets loose a bunch of arrows.  They... don't actually do much, though.   The fight goes pretty much the way you would expect.  However, a new batch runs at us. This is going to happen every few steps until we reach the end of the village.  This time, let's show off the Phoenix Rune.  The tip of Chris's sword glows...  And she swings downward.  Apparently this causes her to have a Tales of moment and produces a Demon Fang.  It does some pretty good damage, but leaves her unbalanced and unable to do anything for a turn. It's really only worth it if you NEED something dead.  Chris and her entourage finally proceed to the back of Karaya Village.  This was not what she expected, though. Dead villagers lay strewn about the ground. Women, children, the elderly... no one was spared. They'd only meant to cause confusion, not murder civilians! : "Who did this, Salome?": "Could it have been... Borus and his men? Nay, they couldn't have done this..." : "Grrr! Assemble our men, immediately! Sound the retreat. This infuriates me!": "Aye, m'lady. Right away!": "How could this be?"  We rejoin them a short while later, as the lot returns to the Brass Castle. It is assumed that their plan to distract the Grasslanders and save their men worked reasonably well, as a large swath of injured Zexens march for their headquarters.  : "Is everyone accounted for?": "Yes, we located all the injured men. Fifty men on horseback escaped. We searched the bodies after the Grasslanders retreated. Myriam and Lanchet were killed." I feel like 'confirmed dead' would have been a better line, since we already got news of their deaths, but whatever. : "As expected. I see."  Borus pounds his fist against the wall in agony. Or he would, if the models could compensate for fists. Instead, he just sort of pounds his fingers against it, and it looks a little silly.   Silence follows, and the scene cuts once more.  : "Good morning, milady. Everyone has finished breakfast already. And you?"She doesn't answer.  We're given control of Chris once more, but we don't go very far. We've got some business in the meeting room next door to attend to.   It seems Salome and Roland cornered Borus near the window. They seem to be in the midst of a heated discussion.  Salome hesitates for only a moment. : "Borus, I believe your word and apologize for even suspecting you. I hope you will forgive me."  : "In all that confusion, it was difficult to get a clear picture of what was happening."In a strange twist of fate, the elf has an alibi when it comes to the genocide. He was with Salome, and couldn't have murdered the Karayans. : "Regardless... We can't let wild rumors spread and cause unnecessary commotion. Oh..."He notices Chris, at last.  : "A thousand pardons, milady. We shouldn't be at each other's throats, wildly speculating...": "It's understandable." : "Borus, I know you can't lie. Can you?"She nods, signaling the end of the conversation. Which is fine, because there are other things in today's line-up. : "Milady, there is a summons from the Council regarding yesterday's cancellation of the treaty negotiations.": "Well, well. News travels quickly. I'll take Borus and Louis. Salome and Roland, you stay here and keep an eye on the movements of the Grasslanders."Getting Borus as far away from Grassland as possible is probably a good idea. : "As you wish, my Lady."  The other three watch as he hurries off, more than a little concerned about their companion. : "I've been too hard on Borus." With that, we may now head to the gate and proceed to Vinay del Zexay.  Pictured: Borus no longer standing in that one spot. Progress!  On the way there, however, we see some familiar faces in the distance.   : "Madam, we heard about Myriam and Lanchet. If only we'd returned to the Brass Castle earlier, we could have saved our men.... What a shame! We lost valuable knights...": "Aye...": "If I hadn't gone after that rat..."You mean 'those meddling kids, and their little duck too,' Leo. : "What rat?": "That's...": "?" Cover story go! The scene ends there, so I guess Chris didn't push the matter any further. We find Borus waiting at the gate for Chris.  : "I'm ready. Shall we go?" Borus mounts his horse ahead of her. He seems strangely impatient. He's always impatient, of course, but usually he's got a bit more fire to him. Perhaps the events on the Grassland touched him more viciously than expected. The two sit for a moment, as Chris picks up on his unease.  : "Borus..."  Without another word, they depart.  The forest has gotten a slew of new enemies for us. The first are these Spark Beetles, a powered up version of the weirdo bugs that shoot rockets out of their backs from before.  Like the Dark Hares, they've been beefed up with Lightning Runes.  What does this mean?  It means they hurt like hell and we are running the hell away when we see large groups of them in the future. You'll notice that enemies in this area are a little strong for us, actually.  Dark Hares also roam the forest, wrecking poo poo where they go. They're usually alone, though, and their low HP and pretty common encounter rate means they're pretty good for catching up.  By the end of the forest, we've beefed up a bit. However, the forest has more terrifying things in store for us.  Suddenly, the screen goes white, unlike the usual black for monster encounters. Some sort of death tentacles can be seen fading in. And we are met with our first rare encounter of the game.   Jesus.  loving.  Christ.  Whydoesithaveglasses?? Wherediditevengetglasses?! Isthatamoustache?!?!   Behold, the Grand Holly, and it's three root-tentacles, the Demon Seeds. Looks silly, right? Wrong.  The Demon Seeds can hit you for an unpleasant amount of damage, and all three of them like to go after the same target.  It can also summon a horde of little Hollies to literally mow you over. There's a third attack, as well, which is basically like the move Earthquake in Pokémon, but he didn't even need to use it against these two noobs.  Yeah.  It's not a pretty encounter. With a larger party, maybe it wouldn't have been so one-sided... but I wouldn't bet on it. No, we are getting the HELL away from that thing.  Defeating rare encounter monsters yields a pretty great amount of experience, though, if you can manage it. The Grand Holly is one of the more terrifying ones, though, especially for this part of the game.  Escaping to near the end of the forest yields an encounter with some familiar faces; Fred and Rico.  : "Phew... Uh... Master Fred, really, let's take a break for a bit... Please, Master Fred..." : "I won't, Master. Really!" : "?" : "........." : "Looking for something?"Fred looks the knights over very carefully. : "Your armor... I suppose you are Zexen Knights.": "You are quite right. And who might you be?": "Allow me, madam. Fred Maximillian, the captain of the Maximillian Knights, at your service."Now that he's formally introduced himself, I'll point out that he is the grandson of Maximillian, a crazy old dude from the first two games and former captain of the Maximillian Knights. I'll also point out that he and Rico are actually the only two Maximillian Knights left. : "I came from afar to carry out my grandfather's wish to conquer evil. I would like to learn anything you know that could help me.": "I am Chris Lightfellow of the Zexen Knights. Nice to meet you, sir."She turns to Borus behind her.  : "What do you mean, 'conquer evil'? Do you know anything about this, Borus?": "There's a dark-skinned boy with a sword on his back, accompanied by a little lad and a duck-man."Fred offers them something to go on, but Chris is drawing a blank. : "Hmm..."She shakes her head. : "I see. Sorry to have bothered you.": "............."Fred turns back to his companion. : "drat! I couldn't find a lead here, either.... Rico, it seems we are off track. Let's head further north!": "Yes, sir, yes! But could we rest for a few seconds?"Of course, Fred ignores the second part. : "We'll be off then. Safe travels to you."He runs off. : "Sir! Wait! Just a minute... I'm coming! Wait for me!" Interestingly, there's a different bit of dialogue here had we replied differently to Fred with Hugo earlier. I don't have screens for it, but it goes something like this. quote:
Just keep it in mind for now. With little else to do, we move on to the city.  : "It's funny. When we left the other day, I had no idea we'd be back this soon.": "Lady Chris, you live here yet you don't care for Vinay del Zexay?": "Yes, Louis. The city is a little stifling at the moment." : "Actually, neither is that bad."Somehow he seems less sincere than usual. : "Oh, Borus!"Even his teasing is half-hearted. : "Yes, this summons... I know that I am to blame. I shall not avoid punishment." : "Don't say anything, Borus." She pulls ahead of him without another word. Next time: Politics and guilt!
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Feb 19, 2013 20:42
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With the Karayan massacre on Borus's head (if only for a minute), I would like to point out that his full name is Borus Redrum.
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Feb 20, 2013 02:29
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Zosephine posted:With the Karayan massacre on Borus's head (if only for a minute), I would like to point out that his full name is Borus Redrum. Maybe the game is hinting at something with that last name.
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Feb 20, 2013 02:34
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Nighteyedie posted:Maybe the game is hinting at something with that last name. But Borus isn't a griffon.
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Feb 20, 2013 02:39
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The Phoenix rune really annoys me. It's actually not that strong since it only deals double damage which means that Chris can do about the same amount of damage with heavy damage and swing upgraded as high as possible and her normal attacks don't unbalance her so she can do more damage in two turns using her basic attack in comparison to one turn with the phoenix rune. I also have another problem with it but I'll get into it when you show off the normal version of it.
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Feb 20, 2013 02:53
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So, what do you think the odds are of Borus getting called on his wanton murder by any sort of authority? Slim-to-none?
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Feb 20, 2013 13:32
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Speedball posted:So, what do you think the odds are of Borus getting called on his wanton murder by any sort of authority? Slim-to-none? Seeing as the Council, the only form of high authority we've seen from Zexen aside from the knights themselves, are all awful people, 'slim-to-none' is a pretty safe estimate. He also said he didn't do it. As honesty is sort of his thing (though, so is aggression), I'll leave you to take that as you will. Testekill posted:The Phoenix rune really annoys me. It's actually not that strong since it only deals double damage which means that Chris can do about the same amount of damage with heavy damage and swing upgraded as high as possible and her normal attacks don't unbalance her so she can do more damage in two turns using her basic attack in comparison to one turn with the phoenix rune. Yeah, magic and runes in this game are sort of underpowered. Well, most of it, anyway. We've already seen that Lightning magic can wreck poo poo, at the very least.
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Feb 20, 2013 15:58
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I thought that either the game or the manga (my memory on this is super fuzzy) implied that Borus went into some sort of rage and did indeed do it. But now that I think about it, it might have been Yuber or somebody.
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Feb 20, 2013 23:06
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Pretty sure we'll find out before the game is over what the cause of the civillian slaughter was, but for now? Villagers are dead. Borus was the only one with no alibi, as he wasn't with the rest of the knights at the time. He claims he didn't do it, but he's acting a little strange, though that could be due to many different reasons. That's what we know, and that's all we'll know for now. The sketchy and suspicious nature of the slaughter is intentional.
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Feb 20, 2013 23:19
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Ah, politics. I wonder if those kids are still around. Did our little side-mission as Hugo change anything there?
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Feb 21, 2013 06:33
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Glazius posted:Ah, politics. Keeping the three viewpoints means that there can be more explored characters over each chapter, because the story doesn't center around 6-10 characters, it's instead got three parties of 5ish (pulled that number out of my rear end... sorry), but the side characters that, in other Suikodens, get barely any fleshing out, are instead used more to support the three different stories. Also, because it's showing the three viewpoints, you can see the conflict from each perspective. So instead of having "I'm pure EEEEVVVILLLL and blow up land masses because it makes me feel good!" villains (I'm looking at you IV), you end up with more rounded villains who get to explain their side of things to the player through the lens of each protagonist. If you were to focus the story entirely around Hugo, Chris and her crew would probably end up as the stereotypical evil bastard crew with one more conflicted person. And Geddoes crew would be placed in various cities who each get a grand total of 2 minutes of screen time as Hugo runs over and recruits them. Geddoe himself maybe getting a larger role because he's their leader. Yeah, characters will still fall through the cracks (as I'm sure we'll see) but the splitting viewpoints allows for the characterization to be spread around far more than one stuck perspective. Btw, how long until ms. Blink Rune and Ms Rune Shop show up? (just in terms of gameplay hours and maybe projected updates?)
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Feb 21, 2013 07:06
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Yokaiy already explained the whole "multiple protagonist" thing. I'm pretty sure Glazius was asking about to the three children Hugo palled around with for a while. And since you can start as any of the three protagonists, it's not too much of a stretch to wonder if things are going to be different after having played as Hugo, versus if we started with Chris and hadn't messed around in the town as the grasslands boy wonder.
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Feb 21, 2013 07:14
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Captain Bravo posted:Yokaiy already explained the whole "multiple protagonist" thing. I'm pretty sure Glazius was asking about to the three children Hugo palled around with for a while. And since you can start as any of the three protagonists, it's not too much of a stretch to wonder if things are going to be different after having played as Hugo, versus if we started with Chris and hadn't messed around in the town as the grasslands boy wonder. The way it was referenced (with the Hugo "Side mission) seemed more like he thought that Hugo was the "decoy protagonist". And if it's what you're suggesting rather than what I read into it (it's late, my brain is slowing down so it may be my fault) I think he went over that in the last Hugo post(?) I know that he specifically mentioned that if you'd played Chris first, Hugo's actions would become automatic rather than player driven. And the reason he chose Hugo first was for the stronger impact of Lulu's death. I assume in the long run it's going to be similar, with the first protagonist to come into conflict/work with the other in their story effectively deciding how that scene will play out.
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Feb 21, 2013 07:24
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