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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:this is all strat and mgt firms For sure. Those are the ones I have worked with though since we have money to burn I guess.
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Oct 2, 2020 17:36
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Democratic Pirate posted:Relevant text I received this morning from a relative who is in their first month at a big consulting firm: 
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Oct 2, 2020 17:41
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yes sorry i definitely didnt mean i wanted to work as that sort of consultant. i just meant external hire. is there a sabbatical thread in BFC? that's my first move, a bit of travelling. it would be interesting to see how many people go back to their old jobs and how many do something new
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Oct 2, 2020 17:59
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Breath Ray posted:is there a sabbatical thread in BFC? that's my first move, a bit of travelling. it would be interesting to see how many people go back to their old jobs and how many do something new I don't know that there is a thread, and I don't have much to contribute to it, but every (non-academic) colleague I've ever had that took a sabbatical never came back to that job and ended up eventually doing something else. And I don't blame them. Sabbaticals seem a bit more normal in academia, at least for the lucky tenured folks.
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Oct 2, 2020 18:50
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I knew a guy who took a year off at a big 4 firm to travel Asia and he came back and got promoted the next year. He was burning oil for like 3 years on a major project right before that though.
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Oct 2, 2020 19:16
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Coming from consulting and then a large insurer: sabbaticals are career suicide until you make partner/VP. At that point you can take a full year sabbatical and nobody looks at you different. Many companies even build it into the exec comp package: accrue 3 months sabbatical per year. But for anyone below that you'd better not. I know a few former senior analysts who gave up six figure jobs for a year to travel and "find themselves". They have all now found themselves working crappy jobs far behind what they originally had.
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Oct 6, 2020 20:50
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interesting insight, thanks. luckily a new job at the same wage would be open on my return so nothing to lose but some pension contributions. id also expect some of those now in less well paid jobs to maybe feel it was worth it? depends how grasping the family is i suppose
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Oct 7, 2020 08:13
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I started a job as a data scientist in early 19. I was rapidly promoted to a lead role and have now been leading teams from 3-8 people directly through various projects (at one point I nominally had 25 people under me). I still have very little job experience (came straight from academia, with a PhD). I think I want to stay on the management path because I find the people I've been leading are usually better at their job than I would be, but I very much enjoy being their advocate, roadmapping, communication. Is this realistic? Can I eventually expect to join another company in a largely managerial role? Any general tips?
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Oct 10, 2020 20:07
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Stay where you are for a couple more years and you've got a shot. Even better if you can get promoted.
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Oct 10, 2020 21:19
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Cingulate posted:I started a job as a data scientist in early 19. I was rapidly promoted to a lead role and have now been leading teams from 3-8 people directly through various projects (at one point I nominally had 25 people under me). I still have very little job experience (came straight from academia, with a PhD). I think I want to stay on the management path because I find the people I've been leading are usually better at their job than I would be, but I very much enjoy being their advocate, roadmapping, communication. Umm yes. Why would you not?
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Oct 10, 2020 21:27
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ultrafilter posted:Stay where you are for a couple more years and you've got a shot. Even better if you can get promoted. Xguard86 posted:Umm yes. Why would you not? Maybe I’m just concerned cause it seems too good to be true.
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Oct 10, 2020 22:34
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Cingulate posted:I thought in tech people get suspicious if you stay with One company for too long. You started a job, you got pushed into (what sounds like) pseudo management, next stop actual management. This is how it happens all the time. Talk to you current boss about how you are enjoying the roll, looking to expand your leadership skills, etc. You are on the path if there ever was one. E: you don't have to jump jobs. It is just the best way to increase your income. There is nothing wrong with sticking at one place. When you decide to more on you will be able to easy explain why you loved working there and are ready for a new leadership challenge.
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Oct 10, 2020 23:07
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spwrozek posted:You started a job, you got pushed into (what sounds like) pseudo management, next stop actual management. This is how it happens all the time. I am thinking about moving to a more established company a few years down the road. FAANG or similar. My friends at Microsoft seem very happy. Thank you.
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Oct 10, 2020 23:23
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Slow Motion posted:Coming from consulting and then a large insurer: sabbaticals are career suicide until you make partner/VP. At that point you can take a full year sabbatical and nobody looks at you different. I took an unpaid sabbatical-ish leave of absence to travel for six months, at a relatively junior position, and it worked out well. I had reason to think I was on the promotion track for the next rung in the ladder, and I started planting the seeds well in advance, including with a VP-level acquaintance who liked me and who I knew would encourage the idea. The whole thing was also tied to a specific, time-limited opportunity rather than the idea that I'd go off and "find myself." With the thumbs up from the VP, I talked to the rest of the chain of command, armed with "I've been talking to [VP] about this and they encouraged me to give it a shot. Can we find a way to make it work?" I spent a few minutes a week keeping up with folks I liked talking to at work when I was overseas, and stepped that up significantly a month or so before my return date. When I came back, I landed in a good place, and was put up to start my company's annoyingly convoluted promotion process within another six months. I've stayed on a growth track since then. Basically, it came down to office politics. Without doing that groundwork, I could have easily come across as someone who's close to burnout, who's not worth developing a professional relationship with because they're probably going to be gone soon anyway. People don't usually take a year off of work just to find themselves unless they feel like work is keeping them from being themselves. That "headed out the door" perception would have turned into an immediate self-fulfilling prophecy. But, it wasn't hard to establish a counter-narrative as the person who got to go do a cool once-in-a-lifetime thing, stayed engaged in the office, and then came back strong with some cool pictures. I even got to owe a favor to a VP, which is paradoxically a good thing at my level, because it built up a relationship between us at very little cost to either one of us. I wouldn't do it at a company with a hardcore cutthroat culture, and I absolutely wouldn't do it in this economy. Still, it's not impossible.
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Oct 11, 2020 01:18
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Cingulate posted:Right. They gave me a very substantial raise already. Either I was horribly underpaid before, or they love me (or both). If management is what you want, it really helps to get established somewhere for a bit. It's way more likely to get another job as a manager with three years management experience vs less. Also things like promotions and stuff usually slow down a lot on once you get established on that track. That can be both a reason and a detriment to jumping. I strongly agree with the advice to talk to your leadership about what you like to do and try to get a real title as soon as you can, if you don't have one already.
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Oct 11, 2020 06:27
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Lockback posted:If management is what you want, it really helps to get established somewhere for a bit. It's way more likely to get another job as a manager with three years management experience vs less. Also things like promotions and stuff usually slow down a lot on once you get established on that track. That can be both a reason and a detriment to jumping. Upper management is aware of my intentions. How realistic would it be to stay at this mid level shop for a while and switch to a FAANG style or more traditional company later? Is "team lead at a start up style company“ likely to land me a managerial role at, say, Microsoft?
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Oct 11, 2020 19:25
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Cingulate posted:How realistic would it be to stay at this mid level shop for a while and switch to a FAANG style or more traditional company later? Is "team lead at a start up style company“ likely to land me a managerial role at, say, Microsoft? That's where a promotion in your current role would add a lot.
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Oct 11, 2020 19:34
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ultrafilter posted:That's where a promotion in your current role would add a lot. Do I have to have a fancy title like "director of x“, or is "lead/principal data scientist“ enough? My current company isn’t very organized about titles.
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Oct 11, 2020 19:41
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Cingulate posted:Ok thanks. You don't necessarily need a director-level title, but "lead/principal [technical role]" or "team lead" typically mean, "this person is first and foremost a technical individual contributor, but also represents their team in meetings and acts as a tie-breaker on team-wide decisions." That's different from a full-on managerial position that's responsible for personnel decisions, budgets, high-level project planning, and so forth. "Data science manager" is probably going to get you a lot closer to what you want. If it's easy enough to get the director title, you might also just go for that - larger companies in the FAANG/MSFT big-tech world can view startup titles as a bit inflated.
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Oct 11, 2020 19:49
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What's a fair pay for a lead data scientist by the way - this might be the wrong place to ask, as I'm in Germany. Currently they're giving me 110k base + bonus, plus some RSUs that I don't think are worth much. I started out with closer to half that, so it feels like  and googling tells me a data scientist makes 50k and a lead DS makes 60-100k, but the ease with which they gave me that raise makes me a bit suspicious, and I'm seeing FAANG folks make 150k+ even here.Space Gopher posted:You don't necessarily need a director-level title, but "lead/principal [technical role]" or "team lead" typically mean, "this person is first and foremost a technical individual contributor, but also represents their team in meetings and acts as a tie-breaker on team-wide decisions." That's different from a full-on managerial position that's responsible for personnel decisions, budgets, high-level project planning, and so forth. Cingulate fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Oct 11, 2020 |
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Oct 11, 2020 20:45
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What's going to really help, once you've got the title and role stuff squared away, is: a) getting a referral b) preparedness for the interview process. Which is partially having a good resume, people skills etc and partially preparing to jump through their particularly dumb hoops really well.
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Oct 11, 2020 20:46
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Xguard86 posted:What's going to really help, once you've got the title and role stuff squared away, is: I think I interview well once it gets to the talking, and I will have a killer resume if the projects I'm currently involved in come through. I may not shine during technical questions though.
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Oct 11, 2020 20:52
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Cingulate posted:Yeah I know about the importance of referrals - I have friends at Apple, Microsoft, a few other places. Currently I don't see how I can do much to improve here though. That's good and I mean if you're looking at a couple years start laying that ground work now with your connections. FAANG/MS get many good candidates and are so economically secure that they don't need to hire anyone but the absolute best fit. Generically good at interviews isn't enough. I don't think many people realize what a game it has become.
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Oct 11, 2020 21:08
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Cingulate posted:What's a fair pay for a lead data scientist by the way - this might be the wrong place to ask, as I'm in Germany. Currently they're giving me 110k base + bonus, plus some RSUs that I don't think are worth much. I started out with closer to half that, so it feels like So Germany is going to be a lot less for that role than the US. That seems reasonable for Germany, but it depends on lots of factors. You will not get Silicon Valley salaries from a company in Germany. There is also a big difference between a top company and a startup in terms of salary and what they expect out of that particular person. Getting a real manager (instead of team lead) usually comes with a slight salary bump and considerable bonus jump at most places. In Germany I'd also expect things like company car wouldn't be out of line (again, depends).
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Oct 11, 2020 23:55
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Xguard86 posted:That's good and I mean if you're looking at a couple years start laying that ground work now with your connections. Lockback posted:So Germany is going to be a lot less for that role than the US. That seems reasonable for Germany, but it depends on lots of factors. You will not get Silicon Valley salaries from a company in Germany. There is also a big difference between a top company and a startup in terms of salary and what they expect out of that particular person.
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Oct 12, 2020 00:02
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Need some advice on a situation where I feel like I'm being marginalized - not intentionally - but as a result of a very poor corporate structure. I work for a med-dev start-up, with about 15 other people. When I first started, there were maybe 5 or 6 (3 - 4 managerial, and another 3 or so technical people). I was brought in to do a lot of algorithm/signal processing type stuff (for which I probably have the most professional experience in the whole company right now!) but being a start-up, I have worn many hates. This is the management team's first ever go at running a company, and they feel very green to me. The CEO has this very sort of hippy attitude about wanting a flat corporate structure and often talks about how he doesn't believe in job titles. He'll randomly hire any smart guy that comes across his desk and when asked about his vision for the roll, the answer is usually some stuttering followed by "well I figure he'll help you guys with the algorithms. More smart people in the room, right?". So what ends up happening is, I'm originally hired for DSP expertise...then he hires two other DSP people. I began developing some ML techniques....then he hires an ML guy. The net result of this is leaving me with a feeling of what exactly is my roll here? Has anyone dealt with this sort of thing before? How do you bring something up like this to your boss without sounding whingy ("I'm above this work"), jealous, (how come HE gets to work on that) ,or, that you're directly criticizing their own management approach (titles, hierarchy, job roles and scope does actually matter)? Cyril Sneer fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Oct 15, 2020 |
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Oct 15, 2020 19:56
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Cyril Sneer posted:Has anyone dealt with this sort of thing before? How do you bring something up like this to your boss without sounding whingy ("I'm above this work"), jealous, (how come HE gets to work on that) ,or, that you're directly criticizing their own management approach (titles, hierarchy, job roles and scope does actually matter)? Career Path Thread: I have worn many hates. To actually contribute, I don’t see any problem trying to sit down and ask for clarification/delineation of your job role/tasks. Go in armed with “my understanding is...” unless it’s physically spelled out somewhere. The best thing I’d think to recommend is to go in with solutions, not just a stack of problems. Tell them what you’re observing then propose changes and explain why it’d be better. I think you can do this without being too self-serving and even green management should be receptive to changes which increase efficiency and decrease stress (or any other pain points, as relevant).
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Oct 15, 2020 20:47
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Cyril Sneer posted:Need some advice on a situation where I feel like I'm being marginalized - not intentionally - but as a result of a very poor corporate structure. Is your resume up to date? I've never seen a situation like this end well. Part of their learning experience will likely be your exit interview.
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Oct 15, 2020 21:27
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Double down and pivot your expertise plus tenure at the company into a director position with those people reporting to you. ... Then quit 2 years later for a big bump elsewhere.
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Oct 15, 2020 21:50
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Xguard86 posted:Double down and pivot your expertise plus tenure at the company into a director position with those people reporting to you. I've only been here for two years, and there isn't anybody reporting to me because we don't have teams, beyond whatever random grouping of people the CEO happens to call a "team" on any given day 
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Oct 15, 2020 21:59
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REMEMBER SPONGE MONKEYS posted:Career Path Thread: I have worn many hates. Generally good advice. I'd go further and frame the conversation as a matter of not just your problem, but the companies problem. "I'd like some definition here so we aren't doubling up efforts", "We'd achieve more if we could work within some structure". That will mitigate the whining aspect of it.
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Oct 15, 2020 22:00
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REMEMBER SPONGE MONKEYS posted:Career Path Thread: I have worn many hates. This sounds like it'll work great and really put boundaries on the problem... for about ten minutes. Then the terminally indecisive CEO will throw out an implicit reorg again and say "we can't get hung up on titles and job descriptions" because they don't even realize the importance of letting specific people own specific parts of the work. This might - might - be a fixable problem if the CEO recognizes the issues it's creating. But, leading them to that conclusion, then coaching them through effectively structuring an organization, is a ton of work. Unless you happen to have a bunch of equity or a personal reason to see the CEO succeed, it's probably not worth the effort. The better option is to look for a new job.
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Oct 15, 2020 22:16
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Cyril Sneer posted:I've only been here for two years, and there isn't anybody reporting to me because we don't have teams, beyond whatever random grouping of people the CEO happens to call a "team" on any given day Mmm. Volunteer yourself as a "team coordinator and enabler", then market the heck out of it on a resume? Half kidding with these suggestions but you would probably actually be a good candidate for a lead or first manager for a growing company. You know how everything works, it sounds like two years is still a lot more than everyone else. Really though: it seems like your CEO and whatever management exists isn't looking to scale the business or lacks the operational skill to do it. Which is fine for them but doesn't seem great for you.
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Oct 16, 2020 02:21
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My Supervisor is leaving in ten days and they're looking for someone to fill in the position. I've been working for them for two years (if you count my contractor days). Should I try to apply? I don't exactly know how well I'd do but I'm figuring hell, why not, I've seen other supervisors be incompetent and worse case scenario there's always failing upwards.
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Oct 20, 2020 16:52
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Odd Mutant posted:My Supervisor is leaving in ten days and they're looking for someone to fill in the position. I've been working for them for two years (if you count my contractor days). Should I try to apply? I don't exactly know how well I'd do but I'm figuring hell, why not, I've seen other supervisors be incompetent and worse case scenario there's always failing upwards. if you think you want to, yes.
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Oct 20, 2020 17:03
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Jordan7hm posted:if you think you want to, yes. I kinda don't, but I think I should want to want to.
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Oct 20, 2020 17:15
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Why would you not? Unless you plan to leave there's nothing to lose.
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Oct 20, 2020 17:15
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some people do not want to be supervisors, which is fine, but if your only concern is if you would be good at it you should go for it.
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Oct 20, 2020 17:20
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So I made a reasonably significant career fuckup last year and have recovered enough from it now to be comfortable sharing. Read and avoid my mistakes: I was a functional department head in HQ at a large Asian company, doing pretty well, reporting to our group CFO. This got me tapped as a potential future GM and I was sent on a 6 month secondment to a P&L ownership role in one of our overseas businesses, reporting to my boss’s anointed successor and right-hand man. Who promptly decided I had been sent to spy on him and palmed me off on the local team, who didn’t know what to do because I kinda outranked them but also kinda didn’t as I knew nothing about operations and was trying to learn from them. In the end I managed to get myself assigned a decent region to run, learn enough about our operations to hit quite aggressive targets, manage the team, turn around one of our local problem employees and build a good working relationship with the local team. Great? No no no! Because that wasn’t the actual task. The task properly understood was really to build a relationship of trust with the {inserthomecountry} execs who were deployed overseas. Most of whom were actively hostile because it had been hard enough for them to get there and they all wanted GM jobs and who’s this guy? So the whole thing was a nightmare from start to finish. My boss’s right hand man then quit, causing absolute chaos. I survived by bending the knee to one of those guys before it was too late and making myself useful to him in his next new country launch. Takeaways for anyone who is sent outside HQ with senior sponsorship into an uncertain role: - However humble you’re being to same-level-colleagues, double it. You can’t afford an ego. - local team feedback is unlikely to matter. - performance is unlikely to matter unless wildly good/bad. - make sure you understand what you’re really being evaluated on. - maybe refuse an opportunity if it means the reporting line will be muddy. There’s probably more lessons I should have learned but those were the main ones that stuck. It’s ok now but it’s probably cost me 2 years at least off promotion, if not killed it totally at this shop.
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Oct 21, 2020 10:49
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I don't know your situation and I could easily be off base but to me it sounds like you're probably hanging on to that company trying to salvage something when it'd be easier to take your experiences somewhere else. It sounds like you definitely rode a really good wave at that company and it paid off to stick through it, but I remember you posting about this a year or so ago and I am not sure it's gotten that much better. Of course, you've done better in your career than I have and you know your situation better than me. But yeah, I feel like your situation is communicating something to you.
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Oct 21, 2020 15:56
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