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Infinity Gaia posted:The only person who can decide what's best for Enkidel is Enkidel, imho. Enkidel is the man who once decided to hold his breath until he literally died and thought that saying "Sometimes big battles overwhelm me" was a good idea. Enkidel is not some bastion of right thinking, and other people are certainly capable of knowing what's good for us. Ish and the Trio probably have ultierior motives but they pretty clearly don't want us harmed, considering the reason they are asking for permission is because to do otherwise would harm us.
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May 21, 2018 15:48
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still catching up but guys, the trance question specifies that it is to be asked before we do any blood poo poo, this is just about trancing in general, i think it's totally reasonable that enkidel would be like "so uhhh... when i'm making my breastplate, this is happening, is that experimentation or dangerous?" so no worries about the blood stuff or anything because it is meant to literally take place before that happens e: never mind literally doesn't matter because it was already answered lmao SerSpook fucked around with this message at 15:52 on May 21, 2018 |
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May 21, 2018 15:49
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Mr. Nemo posted:Did the King and noble said of Seir try to convince you that their claim to the throne is legitimate? Mr. Nemo posted:Did you try mammoth meat? How good was it?
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May 21, 2018 15:51
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Theglavwen posted:I mean gently caress, I would have actually voted against asking him explicitly because I took this to be more of the same poo poo he noped out on previously. Would have ended up punished for not phrasing the question right when it should have been obvious this strange unconcious forging we were doing was something we were trying to ask him about ages ago. It's been a while and my memory is spotty at best but... is it? At the very least, the means by which we went about it was very, very different. Last time, IIRC, we went and wanted to show him our cool arrow that we made with what felt right. He didn't wanna see it because hey, reasons. Here, we go to him and say "This is a thing, which is weird, that has been happening. Is this something I should be worried about?" I get being annoyed but this just struck me as being annoyed at something that he hadn't actually done.
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May 21, 2018 15:52
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Task Manager posted:Ask Rabila if El is depicted whatsoever in the painting, similar to the way he is depicted in other works (a shining radiance just off to the side, out of eye sight) That he is not in the painting is not outright heretical, not all religious art depicts El's shining light. Task Manager posted:Diogines, I can't remember but is a blue orb one of the accepted depictions of El in Urian society? Couldn't remember if that's only something we saw to the south, or Urian works also depict El as a blue orb. Task Manager posted:Either way, also ask Rabila if there were any depictions of a blue orb in the painting anywhere.
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May 21, 2018 15:54
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Infinity Gaia posted:Are we so drat certain the Trio's motives are pure? There's a chance we're just being held back with much, much slower power progression than what we can actually reach. What? I mean, yes, we are being held back that way. There's no 'chance' about it, that's been explicitly acknowledged and we've accepted it. The dudes in Baitel straight up said Ish's resources are limited and he has to teach us at an artificially slow rate in case we get out of hand. That's the trade for living in Zepath. We could have joined at Baitel and gotten progress handed to us in exchange for living under their leash, but we didn't want to. 
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May 21, 2018 15:54
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SniperWoreConverse posted:I agree that the demon situation is hosed and we need to work much harder to both resist them, and eventually overthrow and crush them completely. It'd be cool if we'd actually use them like that, but we don't. And hey, look at that, despite us not prompting it, we got handed an artifact afterall (or, well, an artifact crafting material)! So of course we're voting to toss it into a vault for when Things Are Dire. And people will never vote to actually send the Balls out on a proper quest anymore because people are too afraid their fave characters might die off-screen. And we can't go on adventures anymore ourselves because we've been bolted into this godforsaken city now. Even an adventure LITERALLY RIGHT ON OUR DOORSTEP was too much for some faction of posters in this thread. Can't risk anything. Might die. Better to sit and wait and not even try to win. Don't try learning new things. Don't try crafting cool magical items. Theglavwen posted:What? I mean, yes, we are being held back that way. There's no 'chance' about it, that's been explicitly acknowledged and we've accepted it. The dudes in Baitel straight up said Ish's resources are limited and he has to teach us at an artificially slow rate in case we get out of hand. That's the trade for living in Zepath. We could have joined at Baitel and gotten progress handed to us in exchange for living under their leash, but we didn't want to. Those are not the only two options. We barely explored all our possibilities before settling down. We could be learning from the Kadmonim, possibly, or out in the wilds as a nomad figuring out our powers on our own. Or we could've gone to Seir earlier and ok nevermind with this thread if we'd gone to Seir we'd be dead. Or we could've not broken our ties with Indor, who CLEARLY knows much more than a lot of people give her credit for. Zodiac5000 posted:Enkidel is the man who once decided to hold his breath until he literally died and thought that saying "Sometimes big battles overwhelm me" was a good idea. Enkidel is not some bastion of right thinking, and other people are certainly capable of knowing what's good for us. Ish and the Trio probably have ultierior motives but they pretty clearly don't want us harmed, considering the reason they are asking for permission is because to do otherwise would harm us. There are many kinds of harm. By making us progress at an artifically slow rate and depriving us of information, they could very well be sealing the fate of all mankind, even if their intentions are good. We're probably the only hope for humanity surviving as a free people, we can't sit around being coddled and progressing in the safest ways possible. Infinity Gaia fucked around with this message at 16:00 on May 21, 2018 |
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May 21, 2018 15:54
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Diogines posted:It is not. Any depiction of El at all is completely forbidden. The closest it comes in religious art is reflected light coming from out of the scene. The blue orb thing...my memory is fuzzy, but didn't we see that in...Amok's tomb?
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May 21, 2018 15:59
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Tomn posted:The blue orb thing...my memory is fuzzy, but didn't we see that in...Amok's tomb? we did!
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May 21, 2018 15:59
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Task Manager posted:Enkidel's unconscious mind wants to do a lot of hosed up things, tbh. It's fun to do bad things.
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May 21, 2018 16:00
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SerSpook posted:still catching up but guys, the trance question specifies that it is to be asked before we do any blood poo poo, this is just about trancing in general, i think it's totally reasonable that enkidel would be like "so uhhh... when i'm making my breastplate, this is happening, is that experimentation or dangerous?" Timey-wimey stuff and a consequence of the fact we are dealing with past events. Your asking the question won't in any way influence anything to do with the arrows, for your benefit or for your detriment. It simply won't factor in. That is sort of meta-gaming a bit, but, we sort of have to a little bit when dealing with past events. Incidentally, the options you picked for question 4 are the exact same ones we based the update upon, so we are relieved we don't need to change anything! We assumed you would have done that, or something very similar and the update, as it was initially written, assumes that. Of course we would have been happy to change things as needed if you did something else and were prepared to do so.
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May 21, 2018 16:00
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1.B 2.C 3.B 4.- 5.B 6.A 7.A
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May 21, 2018 16:00
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Tomn posted:The blue orb thing...my memory is fuzzy, but didn't we see that in...Amok's tomb?
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May 21, 2018 16:00
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Theglavwen posted:What? I mean, yes, we are being held back that way. There's no 'chance' about it, that's been explicitly acknowledged and we've accepted it. The dudes in Baitel straight up said Ish's resources are limited and he has to teach us at an artificially slow rate in case we get out of hand. That's the trade for living in Zepath. We could have joined at Baitel and gotten progress handed to us in exchange for living under their leash, but we didn't want to.
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May 21, 2018 16:02
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Cool, cool. So no Urian depictions of El, Esau depicted as the most powerful figure in the image...Esau sucked man. Real big douchebag. At least with Zepa he may have been a bit of a dick but he held El in the proper reverence, it seems. Back to Temple Chat! Ask Rabila if he saw any sort of viewing screens in the "high" temple - things used to partially obscure the view of the altar and/or any seats by the altar. (I'm trying to get at if there were mesh screens similar to the ones in sandwiches without making our brain bleed. Does the King think he is god-like, essentially?) Ask Rabila about the depiction of seats by the altar - does the King have a special seat for when he attends, and if so is it more grandiose than the High Priest's seat, or does he just utilize the same one?
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May 21, 2018 16:03
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Hattie Masters posted:It's been a while and my memory is spotty at best but... is it? At the very least, the means by which we went about it was very, very different. Maybe? But I think it would be silly for either us or NPCS like Ish to assume we wanted to show him the arrow just to say ooooh lookit my cool arrow. We wanted to show it to him because it was weird and more because the process we made it by was weird. People have even been talking cosistantly since then about how we didn't know what we were doing and even wondered about divine intervention. Ish and the Trio know everything we're doing and Ish personally clearly knew something was up with the Eagle arrow, enough to refuse to discuss it. He knew what was going on and that the situation in general was something we wanted to ask our damned teacher about, if he didn't he's being absurdly and unchatacteristically blind. At any time he could have sent the general warning, but instead waited for us to phrase it in a way that didn't involve anything sketchy.
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May 21, 2018 16:04
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Infinity Gaia posted:It'd be cool if we'd actually use them like that, but we don't. And hey, look at that, despite us not prompting it, we got handed an artifact afterall (or, well, an artifact crafting material)! hey man, I was all about getting these fuckers out there doing poo poo, and some people agreed, but the proposal lost in the lead up to the time skip. Even if we're locked in to Kavodel we could have been a mob boss style dude calling shots, or something. We still can be if we can get these companies onboard. We should start like an adventurers festival or something. Guild. Set up a way to direct these guys so they are successful, and also not total loose cannons. I'm still thinking that because the blue stones come from El they shouldn't be hosed around with. Like if there were some lesser stone that wasn't such a big deal seeming kinda thing I would vote to gently caress with it.
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May 21, 2018 16:04
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Infinity Gaia posted:And people will never vote to actually send the Balls out on a proper quest anymore because people are too afraid their fave characters might die off-screen.  But we would like to resolve the past first. So for those eager for some adventure, its coming, maybe, depending on what you vote. Enkidel has a number of leads on potentially Interesting Things.
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May 21, 2018 16:05
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Task Manager posted:Cool, cool. So no Urian depictions of El, Esau depicted as the most powerful figure in the image...Esau sucked man. Real big douchebag. At least with Zepa he may have been a bit of a dick but he held El in the proper reverence, it seems. Woah what if the secret information they don't think we should look at right now is actually related to the ol' bread-and-meats? Would make sense that there could be a dangerous interaction that we can only resolve when we're old enough to shrug it off and remember normally.
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May 21, 2018 16:06
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Task Manager posted:Ask Rabila if he saw any sort of viewing screens in the "high" temple - things used to partially obscure the view of the altar and/or any seats by the altar.[/b] (I'm trying to get at if there were mesh screens similar to the ones in sandwiches without making our brain bleed. Does the King think he is god-like, essentially?) Task Manager posted:Ask Rabila about the depiction of seats by the altar - does the King have a special seat for when he attends, and if so is it more grandiose than the High Priest's seat, or does he just utilize the same one?
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May 21, 2018 16:08
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I will have limited access to the thread for the next few hours, i'll be back later today, I may get to some short questions but anything more complicated i'll save until this evening.
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May 21, 2018 16:09
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SniperWoreConverse posted:I'm still thinking that because the blue stones come from El they shouldn't be hosed around with. Like if there were some lesser stone that wasn't such a big deal seeming kinda thing I would vote to gently caress with it. My memory is hazy, can you source this piece of information for me? Last I checked Tudiya just mentioned they were the remains of ancient artifacts that got stuck inside monsters, Ish refused to comment and Indor cackled and said they were special but refused to go into detail. I don't exactly believe Tudiya's interpretation, either. Once-Consort did have one inside him, and guy didn't seem exactly like the ancient hero eating type.
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May 21, 2018 16:09
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Ask Riballa: Does the King of Seir claim to be Esau? If not, what is his lineage to him? Son, grandson? Ask ourselves: Do we know any stories of Esau's bow or Labarabas Bow, and if so do they match the bow as described by Riballa?
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May 21, 2018 16:11
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Diogines posted:That is not exactly what was said. Fair enough, at a rate slower than Baitel could teach anyway. They have to take precautions due to limited resources that Baitel wouldn't, is the point we've explicitly acknowledged. Infinity Gaia posted:Those are not the only two options. We barely explored all our possibilities before settling down. We could be learning from the Kadmonim, possibly, or out in the wilds as a nomad figuring out our powers on our own. Or we could've gone to Seir earlier and ok nevermind with this thread if we'd gone to Seir we'd be dead. Or we could've not broken our ties with Indor, who CLEARLY knows much more than a lot of people give her credit for. I mean sure, but all those are also things we've chosen not to do and have nothing to do with the fact that we know Ish and the Trio manage our development at a slower rate than would and could otherwise happen.  Ugh this is way too much phone posting.
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May 21, 2018 16:11
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1 C 2 I 3 E 4 ---- 5 B I S| 6 A 7 A
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May 21, 2018 16:11
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Theglavwen posted:Fair enough, at a rate slower than Baitel could teach anyway. They have to take precautions due to limited resources that Baitel wouldn't, is the point we've explicitly acknowledged. I'm just saying it's not too late to switch teachers.
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May 21, 2018 16:12
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Infinity Gaia posted:My memory is hazy, can you source this piece of information for me? Last I checked Tudiya just mentioned they were the remains of ancient artifacts that got stuck inside monsters, Ish refused to comment and Indor cackled and said they were special but refused to go into detail. I don't exactly believe Tudiya's interpretation, either. Once-Consort did have one inside him, and guy didn't seem exactly like the ancient hero eating type. IIRC when Tudiya was talking about it he specifically said they were given by El to men for use as artifacts, and monsters somehow got them and were using them for monster poo poo instead of Holy El Works or whatever. I'm willing to believe it to some extent, because we've seen yellow stones as well with the giants. They're some kind of storage medium for... something... that appears to have alignment of some kind, and El is blue. We also wanted to eat the yellow ones. Dad might be wrong but I think he's "mostly right enough for now" in the same way our well is a useful fiction that is losing accuracy.
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May 21, 2018 16:13
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Hellsau posted:It's fun to do bad things. You guys do recall that the Arrow of Esau was pretty much made out of blood right?
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May 21, 2018 16:14
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Esau was a dick.
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May 21, 2018 16:15
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Lanky Coconut Tree posted:You guys do recall that the Arrow of Esau was pretty much made out of blood right? dang I did not make this connection. Still gross and potentially breaks our Zepa oath. With the stones -- if these stones actually contain souls, like of people, then even using them to make weapons is bad and they should just get dumped back to El. If they just contain "power," then it's ok to use.
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May 21, 2018 16:16
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SerSpook posted:Esau was a dick. He was a dick, but drat could he make an arrow. If we had a full quiver of those things plus an appropriate bow... The old days were pretty hosed up. SniperWoreConverse posted:dang I did not make this connection. Still gross and potentially breaks our Zepa oath. I figure a goddamn ancient artifact made by one of Labaras's own grandsons is PROBABLY FINE TO USE. I doubt the stones contain actual souls, if they did I think Tripledad would've been instructed to sac them to put the souls back into the El Conversion System. Since he's just storing them, it seems pretty reasonable to assume they are, at worst, concentrated personality-less nephesh. Infinity Gaia fucked around with this message at 16:19 on May 21, 2018 |
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May 21, 2018 16:17
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Didn't we see giant versions of this "crossbow" on top of the guard towers on the way to Baitel?
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May 21, 2018 16:17
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SerSpook posted:Esau was a dick. Flies-Chan was not a dick. And I want more Culture missiles in our quiver.
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May 21, 2018 16:17
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Seir kinda sounds like a warped outcome of Zepath honestly. They're both in a position to hold back an invading force, both recognize the importance of keeping bloodlines strong, but Zepath isn't all the way up its own butt about it yet. Seems to work for them, though.
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May 21, 2018 16:19
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dyzzy posted:Seir kinda sounds like a warped outcome of Zepath honestly. They're both in a position to hold back an invading force, both recognize the importance of keeping bloodlines strong, but Zepath isn't all the way up its own butt about it yet. Seir also conquers/controls its neighbors which Zepath is extremely capable yet unwilling to do.
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May 21, 2018 16:21
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So far. But recently a little more than before.
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May 21, 2018 16:22
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Infinity Gaia posted:There are many kinds of harm. By making us progress at an artifically slow rate and depriving us of information, they could very well be sealing the fate of all mankind, even if their intentions are good. We're probably the only hope for humanity surviving as a free people, we can't sit around being coddled and progressing in the safest ways possible. The unbridled arrogance of this statement on Enkidel's part is staggering. We have absolutely no way of making the insane leap of logic involved in this.
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May 21, 2018 16:25
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Zodiac5000 posted:The unbridled arrogance of this statement on Enkidel's part is staggering. We have absolutely no way of making the insane leap of logic involved in this. What can I say, my Personal Enkidel Version has something of a Savior Complex. And more than a little megalomania.
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May 21, 2018 16:26
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At least you admit that you are looking to make Enkidel behave like a deranged lunatic that should probably be committed.
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May 21, 2018 16:29
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Hey Diog, I have a number of questions for Rabila which I think you might have missed: * did you happen to pass through a city/village named Dinhaba on your journey to Seir? * if so, what was it like? Did you meet with its king/magistrate? * do the common people of Seir have lighter skin than the people of Zepath? * did you happen to meet a man named Gilbar, son of Gilbar on your travels? And a new question: Were there any obvious differences between the priests at the two temples? For instance, in bloodedness, quality of their garments, the sermons they preached?
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May 21, 2018 16:38
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