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I honestly think that the big mistake wasn't killing the giants, but failing to remember that Tudiya, backed by Aaron, Barkof, and Ishamal, didn't try to save a village full of cannibal demon slaves. There's a solid precedent for taking what might be valuable (Jalitha and Enkidel) and otherwise getting the gently caress out of dodge because there was zero other way to survive. But no, mass teleport. Despite not playing in this thread I'm pretty invested, because I enjoy really good fiction and Diog writes really good fiction. Also the divine shadow politics that Enkidel was well positioned to observe and potentially even participate in were fascinating and I'm afraid that Judah is way too "establishment" to really have the perspective necessary to be involved or privy to such things. Also you shouldn't read the Diog only version in four days because your recall will be totally awful, and also you will likely be insane like I am.
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May 6, 2016 22:50
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Vavrek posted:That may be the best description of Ishamal's place in the order of things that I have ever read. "I know many great and terrible truths about the world. No clue why they're true. That's above my paygrade." I suppose so, but I still think killing the guards was fine, but the mass teleport was bad. It seemed like the issue was being pushed by the other NPCs, but I think it would have been something that Enkidel could have put his foot down about. "Look, I have this bitchin' new spear and even Tudiya knew not to attempt this, it is madness. Leaving them here dooms some of them to death at the hands of the giants. Taking them with us dooms us all." Vavrek posted:It helps you fit in better with the rest of us. Vague recall of past events, unreliable-to-certifiable quote-unquote "reasoning" capacity. Do you have strong opinions, especially about moderately trivial matters? Oh yes, many.
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May 7, 2016 04:06
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Basscop posted:Havent we gone back in time? The jubilee is in 4 months and we're gonna be having some news spreading around in the following months. Going that far we might as well just reboot Enkidel and make better choices. Which I'm not 100% opposed to, but we have Judah to deal with for the moment and that takes precedence.
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May 8, 2016 23:53
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Why didn't Enkidel tell Amok El's name, he clearly knew it after the event in the cave with the Zviv. Hell, he could have written it to avoid invoking the power word body slam.
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May 12, 2016 18:03
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I think you mean "realize we are not better than the combined might of Aaron, Barkof, Tudiya, and loving Ishamal, taking the sweet spear to complete our blue/purple item kit, and walking home with the balls and leaving the villagers," right? There was a strong precedent for finding cannibal demon farms and leaving them the gently caress alone, even if you decapitate a dude. They only took Enkidel/Jalitha because it was foretold and Jalitha spoke Urian to beg them. Maybe I just like purple items. Whatever.
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May 18, 2016 07:29
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I do pretty frequently in the nuclear thread they have. I consider it close to missionary work, spreading the good word of the atom.
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May 19, 2016 05:31
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maxhush posted:Do they have any insight as to the ballistics/nature/yield of the Orm? No, but superluminal snakes have infinite energy and therefore infinite yield. Such is the power of the melachim. Strictly speaking I don't think that ballistics apply at speeds like that, there's no time for gravity to kick in and effect the trajectory. As to the nature of superluminal snakes, who can say?
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May 19, 2016 11:48
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Diogines posted:It was me.  Don't report me for an emoticon only response, thanks.
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May 26, 2016 02:24
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Imperialist Dog posted:Eagerly anticipating Enkidel appearing in the Judah thread as a This seems more likely.
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Jul 3, 2016 04:15
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Diogines posted:My suffering takes the form of resisting the urge for a retcon. Much like Amok's sons, it will not end. B.B. Rodriguez posted:^^^I wish for one everyday. Same.
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Jul 6, 2016 01:39
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SerSpook posted:I secretly hope that when Judah inevitably dies, Enkidel Retcon is a choice for the next game. Judah is growing on me, and Diog has said that we can get the same amounts of info regarding the religious and historical inaccuracies and the divine shadow games that get played with the souls of men from the current adventure as we could have from Enkidel's adventure, if we play it right. While I think Enkidel was infinitely better placed to be party to such shenanigans and had access to much more knowledgeable sources, if it can be done I think we should do it. Enkidel was  though.
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Jul 6, 2016 01:48
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Outrail posted:I think the reason we ignored the melachim warning and said gently caress it we're going to see the giants was that after a long (long) time spent mucking about in Kavodel and not being really sure what we were doing, and finally coming to a decision to try and find out about what's going on in the world and try to make some allies rather than hanging out playing simcity we were told "Uh no gently caress you you can't do that". We as a collective were really trying to be proactive and get things done and it felt like we were being told to shut up and stop trying. Whether or not it was an attempt at railroading that didn't work is irrelevant, the point it it felt like very obvious railroading. Yeah, but it's the mark of a good DM, which Diog certainly is, that the Melachim weren't privy to the internal goon hive-mind strife. Even Ishamal at some points comments on not knowing exactly why Enkidel behaved the way he did, going from altruism to petty spite in a matter of hours. From the in universe perspective, which is to say non-omniscient, the melachim saw a wildly unpredictable and sometimes straight up petulant "child." They knew exactly what they had seen and what Ishamal had told them/they overheard from various conversations. Enkidel might have expressed his distaste for the cryptic and vague statements made by Ish, I'm pretty sure he did, but if Ish wouldn't say something explicit the melachim certainly weren't going to, they were pretty committed to not being involved much and seemed to go through Ish whenever possible. Enkidel was highly curious, reckless, and probably more than a bit dangerous. If they valued the free will of men as Ish said they did, sending such a message is way over the top in terms of meddling in the affairs of men.
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Jul 6, 2016 02:21
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If I forget anything, let me know. Things we found in caves in Ur:
So yeah, anything deeper than a grave in Ur is probably going to become a grave very quickly if you aren't prepared. Olothreutes fucked around with this message at 00:09 on Jul 7, 2016 |
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Jul 7, 2016 00:05
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Lead out in cuffs posted:I'm not sure the demon in the goblin caves counts as minor. We only defeated it by using magic way above our paygrade (and alerting a ton of Melachim to our existence in the process). I think Tudiya straight up told Enkidel that a zviv is the most minor of the proper demons. And if we did indeed do something that would have zero'd the tank at the end of the adventure to kill it, that just goes to show how bad the thing after the bugs really was. Diogines posted:Not every trip underground found dire danger immediately. You spent long periods of time underground without fighting. You found relatively calm areas. Emphasis for effect. Olothreutes fucked around with this message at 04:52 on Jul 7, 2016 |
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Jul 7, 2016 04:48
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I moved this over from the Judah thread, because really it belongs here in the event that it even matters. I vote for sweet gear, it helps keep us and the balls alive and that's goal #1 (also sweet purpz, bro). Trying to take anyone beyond a select one or two people is suicide and we shouldn't try it. Even the mightiest of mighty groups (Ishamal, Tudiya, Aaron, Barkof, and assorted other mighty men) knew better than to take anyone back with them. They only grabbed who they did based on Divine Command (the visions) and the fact that someone spoke their language and could beg for help. We should at least be able to suppress our hubris long enough to recognize that if they couldn't do it Enkidel and the balls couldn't either.
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Jul 7, 2016 05:10
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FoxTerrier posted:Step 1: I'm strongly in favor of ditching the people of Gebek to deal with their poo poo themselves. Tudiya didn't try to save an entire village and he had Ishamal's help (who probably would have said something like "No, I will not help you, I won't abet you meddling in the lives of men that are not your subjects." anyway) and neither should we.
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Jul 11, 2016 21:24
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the_steve posted:If we do that, virtually NONE of our Balls will forgive us. Sure, we can browbeat most of them into submission, but, I can guaran-loving-tee that Uriah plays the "Stop being a coward, Enkidel!" card, and either shames us into trying anyways, or stages a mutiny/split up the group. We frame it exactly as such, though. Tell them that we were rescued only because Jalitha knew Ur speak to beg AND Tudiya was on a mission from El. The wisest and strongest folk we know didn't attempt this madness, it would not be wise to try it ourselves. If you wish to argue with the combined might/wisdom of Tudiya, Ishamal, Barkof, Aaron, and a bunch of mighty men who can tear regenerating lizard beasts in half with their bare hands, well, do it when we get home. Alive. We aren't on a mission from El, he didn't send us here. We came looking for a fight and we got it. And then some, what with Amok. We did this for our own glory and ego, not for El on some divine mercy mission. We won't have his benevolent hand to guide us home safely because this mission is not his will, it is ours. And if Uriah wants to play the coward card, let him. Ask him straight up if he thinks he's stronger than Tudiya. We all know the answer is no, and his might won't be sufficient to protect anyone, not even himself, if we try. Discretion is the better part of valor in this instance. Would he doom the balls to death in order to also doom the people of Gebek to death with us? Or would he rather live, kill some more sweet monsters, and try to come back one day* better prepared to handle this situation? *Probably never coming back. Hell, after Tudiya decapitated Shushem the Athrians didn't leave. They didn't all get murdered either, Shushem got resurrected by a demon and they went about doing their business, fishing and eating people. Chances are if the giants return here they'll go "Well poo poo." and then return the status quo. They aren't going to eat an entire herd of cattle out of spite, they'll just continue as they were. I'm assuming that not every human here gets eaten, some probably die of natural causes. Jethro has lived long enough to have a bunch of family and if he hadn't gotten caged would probably have kept on living for a while. Olothreutes fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Jul 11, 2016 |
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Jul 11, 2016 21:39
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Diogines posted:B. Eleazar agrees saying "I think we may win. But not without loosing more of our number. And we cannot save these people regardless. We came for a fight. It is not one I think we should take. Let's go home. We can kill that demon-" the hydra-gorgo-lisk "-on the way home and drink deeply of the riches." Your servant Gaddiel and two of the heretical Balls agree, no one else does. poo poo, Eleazar, our second in command with a brain (Uriah being second in command with the brawn) doesn't think we should do any of this poo poo and should make for home. He's thought this since before we sealed up Gebeb and killed all the giants. Here's the bit with David vs everyone else with regards to saving the villagers. He's the only one that wants to try anything beyond bringing a few children and young men who won't slow you down. Olothreutes fucked around with this message at 22:16 on Jul 11, 2016 |
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Jul 11, 2016 22:07
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Tsyni posted:I ignored the stasis option, but I am assuming it means that we have to walk all the way back by ourselves? Yeah, probably. I can't see much more than that being possible, we'd be putting something like 600 people into stasis. That's non-trivial. Still, no one but us knows what happens in the offering-zone, and we aren't obligated to tell them anything. We could tell David that El gave us this sweet armor, sorry kiddo, and also he said marching them home is a death sentence. Yep. Totally El's word. I guess we aren't supposed to put words in the mouths of the clergy or El, so maybe directly claiming that would be bad. We tell him El gave us this sweet armor, and we had a very profound feeling that marching them all back was a Really Bad Idea.
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Jul 11, 2016 22:41
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jazzyhattrick posted:what about a C130 and a runway to take off from? Diog, is there enough space in a hercules to fit all the villagers? Having been in a C-130 (ok it was an AC-130) there is no way you can fit 500+ people in one. Maybe, maybe you could fit that many in a Galaxy, but a C-5 is insane. KPC_Mammon posted:I think we should make a powerful weapon (seems like we have a lot of trouble hurting powerful enemies) and leave the villagers to their fate. Either this or sweet armor. Something that protects us so that we can continue to murder-bow things. Our existing armor is good, it protects us from harm pretty well, but it's clear that it will bend (Everfang) and we can be injured pretty badly while in it. SerSpook posted:As a reminder not only would the teleport bring us much closer and so be safer, it is literally in Mighty Man patrol range But how will we kill the Hydra-gorgo-lisk if we teleport that far?
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Jul 12, 2016 01:16
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Tsyni posted:I really think this is wishful thinking. We probably got a bit lucky getting down here. I think we should definitively close this chapter and just choose a safe teleport. That's also probably a good idea, even if I do support the armor/weapon plan more. Figure out how many people beyond the Balls we can take, all our gear and whatnot, and be within mighty man patrol range. Rounded down to make sure.
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Jul 12, 2016 01:22
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Tsyni posted:What about loots? I think a few weeks out of patrol range isn't bad if get the loots. Drop people in favor of loots, imo.
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Jul 12, 2016 01:41
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I think the amber is coming home with us. We should also try to find some seeds and saplings from this grove of wonders around the Seriously, though, that will make an awesome story. "All the other men said I was daft to erect an altar there, but I did it anyway! It burned into the ground. So I built another one! That one burned to the ground too. The third altar, I tell you, that was a great altar. That one fell over, burned down, and sank into the earth. But the fourth altar! That altar you see before you, strong as can be!" Olothreutes fucked around with this message at 02:35 on Jul 12, 2016 |
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Jul 12, 2016 02:30
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I'm starting to warm to the idea of teleporting Us and the balls as close as we can get while bringing only things that are irreplaceable with us. Stuff like the fruit tree from Amok's chamber, the amber we found in Gebek, and maybe some seeds/sproutlings of the plants around the altar which are clearly blessed and also totally foreign. The scrolls and stuff too, because that poo poo is 100% amazing, even if we get stopped at the border and it's all confiscated by the house of El.
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Jul 13, 2016 05:20
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Tsyni posted:Exactly. Exactly. Would you be in support of grabbing some seeds/saplings from the giant trees as well? Having a forest of swords is pretty rad, but what if we managed to make an actual forest of insanely large trees? I know the climate is probably bad for them but if we plant them by the river they should have enough water to be able to adjust. Think about it, in 100 years anyone who wants to approach Kavodel will have to navigate a forest of 200 foot tall trees.
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Jul 13, 2016 09:40
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I figure at least two posts worth of world material that came from answers to Tomn's questions. I'm going to bet on 7 posts total. Anyone else want to take bets?
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Jul 14, 2016 05:14
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TheCog posted:
Man, gently caress the civvies. It's clear that trying to save them is madness and suicide at best. Bring a few along if we have space in the bus, but we came here for a fight and for glory, lets return home with the spoils and the glory. SerSpook posted:We need to try to prioritize our phat lewts in some way. Here are notable things we might want to consider bringing: Most of this is solid. I think the plants, as a renewable resource of sorts, should take precedence.
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Jul 14, 2016 07:42
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UppaTree posted:Eh... The masters of this place are still pretty much alive and well right now too, we just haven't actively pissed on them yet because we hit a mostly undefended outpost of a potentially massive empire. As soon as they find out this has happened it's either going to turn into a war with Mardook, who maybe sacked the place, or they'll question the humans and learn that it was other humans who speak of El, assuming we tell them anything. Getting the gently caress out of dodge is a good idea, and the less demon infested wasteland we have to cross while we do it, the better. That many fewer chances to get owned by donkey-bats and fleshblights. Or whatever ancient but not technically a demon horrors there are like the Hydra-gorgon-alisk thing. If we do elect to walk back, I vote for super stealth mode as best we can and to get a sweet piece of gear. BoyG posted:I've said it before and I'll say it again... Basically this. I am in support of a teleport, but one for Us and the balls and the loot, leaving the 600 villagers behind. Although we still have a pretty baller bow, we could do with some truly amazing armor or another type of weapon. A spear, probably. We have a blooded bronze set of armor, Tudiya's magic weightless/indestructible shield, the olive wreath crown of stealth, a bow from Chait who is apparently no joke and old as poo poo, the troll club from Ish (no really, he's trolling us), and the sandals of walk-forever. Oh and whatever that magic amulet we found in Gebek does. I think we lost our magic skirt from Azz when we got blown up at Tanaach. A spear would nicely round out that weapon set, and a set of actually magic armor instead of just superior mundane armor would also be rad. I don't know if we get to keep the magic shield when we come home or not, Tudiya might want it back. Oh, and if we manage to bring the giant trees back with us via seeds or saplings we might have the only source of amber in all of Ur. Assuming we can figure out how to harvest it, and I suspect that would be a pretty easy thing to keep secret in our giant forest of giant trees. Eventually we can ignore Olothreutes fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Jul 14, 2016 |
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Jul 14, 2016 17:36
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Lord Cyrahzax posted:You know, I bet Indor could help us make some magic armor Indor needs monster bits, especially what I'm assuming are monster soulstones, in order to work her magic on stuff. This one we get right now as a reward for saving souls rather than letting Indor mold the souls of whomever got eaten by a monster into magic armor. The more I think about Indor the more I'm pretty sure that's what she's doing. I'll have to go reread the battle toad section, but didn't Enkidel have the same "This is mine, I should eat it!" response to the toad-stone that he had to the giant stones full of souls? E: I checked, we did not have an "eat it!" moment with the toad stone. Ish, Tudiya, and Zebanetha all seemed to think it was safe for us to keep, so if it was full of human souls I imagine they would have responded differently. Olothreutes fucked around with this message at 18:21 on Jul 14, 2016 |
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Jul 14, 2016 17:44
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Basscop posted:Does accusing people of voting wrong count as a personal attack? Pretty sure that's a yes. But telling them you don't agree with them is totally ok. So are we assuming that the giant metal is iron and that the bnaimokt metal is steel? I bet blooded steel is legit AF. Diog, are there any really heavy rocks/ores in Ur that are just totally useless otherwise? Olothreutes fucked around with this message at 01:37 on Jul 15, 2016 |
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Jul 15, 2016 01:26
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Diogines posted:I would need to check but I am like 99% sure Gebeb is south of the ruins of the Once Great and Mighty City of Amalek. That was going to be my comment as well, that I was pretty sure the ruins of Old Amalek were further south and less east, and that Gebek was further south than that. I tried seeing how long a walk it was from old Amalek to Gebek but there was a lot of "some time later" type stuff without actual numbers. It's at least E: Wait, aren't weeks in Ur 10 days long? So it's at least a week of walking, plus some.
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Jul 16, 2016 00:14
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Diogines posted:It is. Is Baitel that far east? It seems like it was more northerly than that, but I may be wrong on this one. I always assumed it was mostly NNE from Zepath, but they just called it NE. Also, what is the general climate around Gebek? It must be much wetter than it is in the majority of Ur, correct?
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Jul 16, 2016 00:45
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the_steve posted:Yeah, how DO you write Dickbutt in Low Asheran? I don't think the Asherans have written language at all.
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Jul 18, 2016 02:09
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Given how sensitive Amok's "presence" sense is (He could feel Mt. Har in his room when no one else could) I suspect Ishamal is similarly sensitive. Which means, given than Enkidel could sense Amok a few miles into the sky, Ish could probably sense him all the way back in Zepath. I'm pretty sure Ishamal was having a great night, just shooting the poo poo, telling dirty jokes, playing dice, and getting drunk and suddenly he pauses for a moment. "Oh you have got to be loving kidding me."
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Jul 21, 2016 10:28
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I really do expect that waking Amok is going to be the thing that everyone cares the most about. 7-bird-snake (clearly a hydra-coatl) is isolating and just wants to be left alone, Gebeb is sealed up for the time being (a year?), and the rest of the trip is pretty uneventful really. Except for the ancient deific power we released upon the world who is probably friendly but is going to make the divine politics of Ur veeeerrrry complicated. If anything was going to upset the social order releasing a half-man half-melachim into the works with enough power to act like a deity and with no fucks to give about the social order is going to do it. Imagine the first time he lands somewhere, 20 feet tall and winged, and starts to talk poo poo about the Melachim and El.
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Jul 22, 2016 00:19
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Outrail posted:We really should have gotten much much more info from Amok before he well, ran amok. Nah, I think that [???] charges slowly on its own, absent any other stimulus, and Amok has been asleep and not spending any for thousands of years. Fare/Faramu might have more subjects, but I'm pretty sure he's been spending it as well. And Amok was probably super strong to start with, given that he crushed 7-bird so bad he put it on his own coffin. Mr. Nemo posted:RIP Tudiya. Tudiya should be fine? Dude is righteous as can be, and more than a little bit more progressive than the rest of Ur.
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Jul 22, 2016 00:51
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Theglavwen posted:Eh, you're surely right that people are going to care about it, but I don't think he's going to make the 'divine politics' much more complicated than they are now. There's already hordes of Fares and Pseudo-Amoks and 7-Birds and poo poo out there, and the Melachim do whatever they need to do to keep them out from Ur. Unless Amok represents the actual exact tipping point, I expect that if he tries to come into Ur he's going to be met at the border by whatever Melachim squadrons generally keep these guys out, and fought off if need be. Could be that he'd actually win, but it seems like the Melachim have 'keeping superpower assholes out' kinda down. I really do think that Amok is on a different level than they are used to dealing with. He straight up (and this might be his own hubris talking here) said that he could try to take Mt. Har solo, and even thought he could win, but would only hasten his own descent into hunger in doing so. The dude thinks he has a non-zero chance of successfully assaulting the mountain on his own, with just a flying dog. That's probably not your usual levels of "Imma sit here and send some minotaurs your way to get destroyed on the reg." Outrail posted:
This is worth considering. Depending on the time frame until the storm arrives, we might need to bulk the gently caress up to protect our people. Hell, we do need to bulk up. It's just a matter of having enough time to become swole enough or not. Olothreutes fucked around with this message at 01:27 on Jul 22, 2016 |
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Jul 22, 2016 01:25
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Outrail posted:edit: ^^: Going on a pilgrimage to Baitel and convincing a bunch of people to come back to Kavodel would net faster returns. If we're even allowed back into Ur proper, that is. Baitel might be off limits to us now. Who knows what will happen when we return. We know that the lands of Zepa are separate, and that we get more leeway there than in Ur proper. Still, having some extra folk around can't hurt, but it doesn't mean anything to have extra people if we die trying to get them home. If we aren't willing to take a sweet item and just walk the gently caress home with the balls, we should take the teleport with Us and the balls, a bunch of plants/seeds for our private gardens in Kavodel (seriously, a forest of trees that have 100+ foot wide trunks around the city would be mad sweet), and then some spoils, and then whatever kids we can take without landing in murderland.
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Jul 22, 2016 02:27
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AbysmalPeptoBismol posted:How do you know "a storm is coming" refers to Ur at all? And when? Amok tells Enkidel that nothing about the current situation really matters, because the bonds on Asherah are almost spent. The implication being that Asherah will wipe everything out anyway. Diogines posted:Your Balls stop arguing and fall silent as Amok turns to you and says "I cannot see precisely what occurs upon that mountain from here-" Eleazar asks Nahari what Amok is saying, it looks like they still can't understand him "-but it is for naught. Even in victory I would lose, for in defeating them and expending my strength I would only hasten the day of my endless madness. Even vengeance is pointless. A sooner doom is coming. I have seen the bindings in the depths, the chains upon Asherah are nearly spent. And he is not alone. Perhaps the extinction of mankind will move a callous and malevolent god who was silent upon the suffering of my people? I do not know." Amok begins to walk back to the hole "I am going back to sleep." I guess it's not even an implication. He just says that extinction is coming. Olothreutes fucked around with this message at 02:49 on Jul 22, 2016 |
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Jul 22, 2016 02:37
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Ultimate Mango posted:Instead of the update, Diog should just post the link to all his posts in this thread. And make you post proof you read it all to vote after the retcon. 214 pages of posts seems like a bit much to have to read. Although at this point I think my estimate of seven posts might be a little low for the recap.
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Jul 22, 2016 06:48
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